PGA Tour: Waialae CC, 17th hole...Change it up!

OBbogey5OBbogey5 FalconerMembers Posts: 960 ✭✭
I like watching this tourney on TV more than Kapalua. The field isn’t as good, obviously, but I can relate more to the W. The Planation course, to me, is boring...just a gigantic bomber driver’s course, basically hitting every drive off a cliff into nowhere, and then 80 yards of roll. Cool - long ball. Get it.



But Waialae is more like a course that I’m used to playing and seeing. However, the 17th hole par 3 bores me to death. The green never holds, all the tee shots look the same, almost every player is looking or hoping for par. I think it looks just terrible on TV (side closeup of tee shot, then closeup of ball bouncing/rolling throwing green), it kills momentum down the stretch of a usually exciting finish, and it seems to always pop up in a playoff.



The 18th hole is a fantastic finishing hole for TV; and I’d like to see the 17th not diminish it as the penultimate hole. I actually turn the channel, during a playoff!, when the guys go to 17. I know the tournament probably won’t end there, and if it does, it’s because par saved the day.



Boring! And Sad! PGA Tour: re-do 17 at Waialae to make it more exciting to us viewers, please!



Your opinions..??



Comments

  • Dr. BlockDr. Block Members Posts: 610 ✭✭
    Speaking personally, I enjoy watching par be the challenge. It’s always worked for the road hole.
  • OBbogey5OBbogey5 Falconer Members Posts: 960 ✭✭
    Dr. Block wrote:


    Speaking personally, I enjoy watching par be the challenge. It’s always worked for the road hole.




    I know the Road Hole, Dr. Block. And W#17 is no Road Hole!
  • Darth PutterDarth Putter Members Posts: 4,766 ✭✭
    You got your wish, it's a new Doak redesign this year to make it more "Redan" like.



    https://golfweek.com/2018/01/10/the-forecaddie-pga-tour-players-get-first-real-taste-of-doak/
    swing is irrelevant, score is everything

    just say NO.... to practice swings
  • Dr. BlockDr. Block Members Posts: 610 ✭✭
    edited Jan 12, 2019 1:26pm #5
    OBbogey5 wrote:

    Dr. Block wrote:


    Speaking personally, I enjoy watching par be the challenge. It’s always worked for the road hole.




    I know the Road Hole, Dr. Block. And W#17 is no Road Hole!




    My post was simply me sharing my opinion, but your use of an exclamation point seems to mean you didn’t appreciate it. So let me go a little further.



    A penultimate hole with a green almost impossible to hit and hold (like the road hole) followed by an exciting eighteenth that is easily birdied makes for a truly special finish at the home of golf, but a similar design strategy at Wailea offends you? How about the 17th at pebble, does it’s difficulty also ruin things for you?



    In my opinion, not every hole should be lawn darts - especially at the end of a tournament round.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • elwhippyelwhippy Members Posts: 3,120 ✭✭
    The Road Hole is an easy par 5. Off the back tees an amateur is being optimistic on getting down in 4 shots. However a tough par 3 is a welcome change on the PGA Tour.
  • Bluefan75Bluefan75 Members Posts: 3,873 ✭✭
    Dr. Block wrote:


    Speaking personally, I enjoy watching par be the challenge. It's always worked for the road hole.




    The Road Hole is not an easy par, but it's not impossible to hold the green. There are ways to make a four. A par 3 that is impossible to hold is not of the same ilk.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Posts: 17,714 ClubWRX
    edited Jan 12, 2019 3:23pm #8
    LOL, complaining and no idea of the redesign. And if it's still boring, I guess it's still boring. A par three that requires a good shot. Great idea.



    A challenging hole made a little better that players must get a good score on in the heat of battle coming down the stretch.



    Sounds perfect.



    Good point made by the announcers about the little village around the back of the hole, that needs to go.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Posts: 17,714 ClubWRX
    edited Jan 12, 2019 3:27pm #9
    And I honestly wasn't aware of the redesign either until I heard Mr. Hawaii (who I really like as an announcer) mention "redan" yesterday - so looked it up.



    Playing the original redan this summer, can't wait! If it really was 1869 that makes it the 150th anniversary if my cyphering is correct.
  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 7,224 ✭✭
    Agree. It’s total crap and bad TV. Green is as hard as a parking lot. Virtually impossible to get close.



    Hopefully it will soften up quickly after it ages a bit.
    9.5* Cobra LTD, Old school Grafalloy Blue, 43.5"
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    16* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X, 41.5" (set to 17*)
    19* Titleist 816 H2 fuji 8.8X TS 40.0"
    4-7 2016 Hogan PTx, KBS Tour V, 120X.  
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  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Posts: 17,714 ClubWRX


    Agree. It’s total crap and bad TV. Green is as hard as a parking lot. Virtually impossible to get close.



    Hopefully it will soften up quickly after it ages a bit.




    Do you think the hardness of the green was part of the intent, or is that a tournament setup and or weather issue this week?
  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 7,224 ✭✭
    edited Jan 12, 2019 4:07pm #12
    Hawkeye77 wrote:



    Agree. It’s total crap and bad TV. Green is as hard as a parking lot. Virtually impossible to get close.



    Hopefully it will soften up quickly after it ages a bit.




    Do you think the hardness of the green was part of the intent, or is that a tournament setup and or weather issue this week?




    No. The talking heads have even mentioned it’s too hard.



    New greens just tend to be very hard. It will soften with age and once it gets some dead leaf matter and organic goodness mixed into it.
    9.5* Cobra LTD, Old school Grafalloy Blue, 43.5"
    14* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X 42"
    16* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X, 41.5" (set to 17*)
    19* Titleist 816 H2 fuji 8.8X TS 40.0"
    4-7 2016 Hogan PTx, KBS Tour V, 120X.  
    Ping i210 8 & 9 Proto 125 F5 hardstepped 1x.
    Ping glide 2 46-12, 50-12, 54-14 (at 55) stealth, Vokey SM6 60M (61). Wedges Recoil Proto 125 F5
    33.5" Ghost spider slant neck.
    Srixon Z-star XV
    Jones Trouper Bag
  • Dr. BlockDr. Block Members Posts: 610 ✭✭
    edited Jan 12, 2019 4:30pm #13
    Bluefan75 wrote:

    Dr. Block wrote:


    Speaking personally, I enjoy watching par be the challenge. It's always worked for the road hole.




    The Road Hole is not an easy par, but it's not impossible to hold the green. There are ways to make a four. A par 3 that is impossible to hold is not of the same ilk.




    Isn’t the road hole green usually held by a flighted shot landing just short and rolling up the slope with the proper weight? Is this possible on a redan green like the 17th at Wailae? I haven’t played many so I don’t really know them, but it looks like the run up would be the shot from what I’ve seen watching the broadcast.
  • 94009400 Members Posts: 108 ✭✭
    Hard disagree with the premise of this thread. It went from being a flat boring green back to a Redan template hole used extensively by the original course architect, Seth Raynor. No longer do the players just get a yardage, thoughtlessly pick their club and swing. It takes thought and a well planned and executed approach. Guys have gotten it close, they are the ones flighting it down and landing it 25 yards short.



    Difficult and strategic is a huge upgrade to this hole.
  • Mikey5eMikey5e Members Posts: 728 ✭✭
    Isn't the 17th hole to par 3 with the concession stand wrapping around the green? I think they were mentioning that the players would seem to hit into the concession stands and get a free drop away from them to their advantage. It seems a bit rinky-dink in my opinion.
  • OBbogey5OBbogey5 Falconer Members Posts: 960 ✭✭
    Hey who won the tourney today, and how did the 17th factor in??
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