Bryson/Speath advice

If I heard correctly it went something like this:



Announcer: Bryson have others asked you about when to leave the flagstick in?



Bryson: Yea, a couple. Like on 15 yesterday Jordan said think I should leave the flag in?



Bryson sort of mumbled: And I said why not



Hopefully someone will have the telecast.

Comments

  • sui generissui generis Members Posts: 3,804 ✭✭
    edited Jan 12, 2019 9:35pm #2
    x-out wrote:


    If I heard correctly it went something like this:



    Announcer: Bryson have others asked you about when to leave the flagstick in?



    Bryson: Yea, a couple. Like on 15 yesterday Jordan said think I should leave the flag in?



    Bryson sort of mumbled: And I said why not



    Hopefully someone will have the telecast.




    When making a judgment concerning "Advice" look to the RoG Definition:



    Advice - Any verbal comment or action (such as showing what club was just used to make a stroke) that is intended to influence you or another player in choosing a club, making a stroke, or deciding how to play during a hole or round. But advice does not include public information, such as the location of things on the course, the distance from one point to another, or the Rules.



    and, these Interpretations:



    Advice/1 – Verbal Comments or Actions That Are Advice



    Examples of when comments or actions are considered advice and are not allowed include:



    A player makes a statement regarding club selection that was intended to be overheard by another player who had a similar stroke.



    In individual stroke play, Player A, who has just holed out on the 7th hole, demonstrates to Player B, whose ball was just off the putting green, how to make the next stroke. Because Player B has not completed the hole, Player A gets the penalty on the 7th hole. But, if both Player A and Player B had completed the 7th hole, Player A gets the penalty on the 8th hole.



    A player’s ball is lying badly and the player is deliberating what action to take. Another player comments, “You have no shot at all. If I were you, I would decide to take unplayable ball relief.” This comment is advice because it could have influenced the player in deciding how to play during a hole.



    While a player is setting up to hit his or her shot over a large penalty area filled with water, another player in the group comments, “You know the wind is in your face and it’s 250 yards to carry that water?”



    Advice/2 – Verbal Comments or Actions That Are Not Advice



    Examples of comments or actions that are not advice include:



    During play of the 6th hole, a player asks another player what club he or she used on the 4th hole that is a par-3 of similar length.



    A player makes a second stroke that lands on the putting green. Another player does likewise. The first player then asks the second player what club was used for the second stroke.



    After making a stroke, a player says, “I should have used a 5-iron” to another player in the group that has yet to play onto the green, but not intending to influence his or her play.



    A player looks into another player’s bag to determine which club he or she used for the last stroke without touching or moving anything.



    While lining up a putt, a player mistakenly seeks advice from another player’s caddie, believing that caddie to be the player’s caddie. The player immediately realizes the mistake and tells the other caddie not to answer.
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Posts: 17,714 ClubWRX
    Thank goodness it was Speath!
  • QEightQEight FinlandMembers Posts: 3,423 ✭✭
    Hawkeye77 wrote:


    Thank goodness it was Speath!




    Of all the Jordans.
    Ping G15 Titleist 950R Titleist 910D2
    Titleist 910f 3W
    Callaway XHot hybrid
    Titleist 735cm Titleist AP2
    Vokey wedges
    Odyssey Works Versa #1 Tank Tri-Ball SRT
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,115 ✭✭
    x-out wrote:


    Hopefully someone will have the telecast.




    I don't have it but I heard it yesterday as I was watching the DVR recording.



    Speith's words as described by Bryson. "I might as well leave the flag in, It couldn't hurt anything. Right?"



    Some possibility that it might have been rhetorical, it wasn't clear whether he was expecting an answer or not.
  • x-outx-out Members Posts: 52
    Stuart G. wrote:

    x-out wrote:


    Hopefully someone will have the telecast.




    I don't have it but I heard it yesterday as I was watching the DVR recording.



    Speith's words as described by Bryson. "I might as well leave the flag in, It couldn't hurt anything. Right?"



    Some possibility that it might have been rhetorical, it wasn't clear whether he was expecting an answer or not.




    Bryson certainly implied he was seeking confirmation, but perhaps 10.2 doubt goes to player. I would think they would have interviewed the two despite Speath probably long gone re cut.
  • TerpFangolferTerpFangolfer Members Posts: 579 ✭✭
    I like it...double down on the misspelling, like the dude did over in Tour Talk with Xander (well he did more than double down) image/taunt.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':taunt:' />
    TM R1
    TM Rbz Stage2 3w (15) & 3 hyb (19)
    Mizuno MP-64 4-Pw
    Mizuno MP-T5 50-7
    Titleist Vokey SM-4 54-8 & 58-12
    Ping TR 1966 Anser2
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,115 ✭✭
    x-out wrote:


    Bryson certainly implied he was seeking confirmation, but perhaps 10.2 doubt goes to player. I would think they would have interviewed the two despite Speath probably long gone re cut.




    Yes, I agree Bryson thought he was being asked, but (IMO) the determination depends on whether Jordan was expecting an answer or not. He is known to have a lot of conversations with himself :-)
  • AugsterAugster Members Posts: 4,196 ✭✭
    IMO, it was clearly asking for advice. It’s one of the things I wish they would have cleared up with the new rules or did away with. Sadly, they left the advice rules just as ambiguous as before.



    I think he should have taken the penalty. Retroactively he should take the penalty just to show he knows he was in the wrong and didn’t even realize he had done it. He missed the cut anyway, so why not play by the Rules?
  • sui generissui generis Members Posts: 3,804 ✭✭
    Augster wrote:


    IMO, it was clearly asking for advice. It's one of the things I wish they would have cleared up with the new rules or did away with. Sadly, they left the advice rules just as ambiguous as before.



    I think he should have taken the penalty. Retroactively he should take the penalty just to show he knows he was in the wrong and didn't even realize he had done it. He missed the cut anyway, so why not play by the Rules?




    The Rules not only define Advice but go on, in two Interpretations, to help us understand the concept. It's as simple as this, the referee or the Committee asks the player or players what was said and what was their intent. How is that "ambiguous"? image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,130 ✭✭
    Hawkeye77 wrote:


    Thank goodness it was Speath!




    Wrong, it was actually Young Jordan Speeth. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

    Ping G400
    Callaway Rogue 3w, HW
    Ping G 4 hybrid
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS
    Vokey 58 M grind
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • sui generissui generis Members Posts: 3,804 ✭✭
    dlygrisse wrote:

    Hawkeye77 wrote:


    Thank goodness it was Speath!




    Wrong, it was actually Young Jordan Speeth. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />




    Whoa, not Spiith?
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean Members Posts: 3,895 ✭✭

    Augster wrote:


    IMO, it was clearly asking for advice. It's one of the things I wish they would have cleared up with the new rules or did away with. Sadly, they left the advice rules just as ambiguous as before.



    I think he should have taken the penalty. Retroactively he should take the penalty just to show he knows he was in the wrong and didn't even realize he had done it. He missed the cut anyway, so why not play by the Rules?




    The Rules not only define Advice but go on, in two Interpretations, to help us understand the concept. It's as simple as this, the referee or the Committee asks the player or players what was said and what was their intent. How is that "ambiguous"? image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />




    That would my approach as well. Ask Bryson if he felt he was asked or not. Ask Speath what did he mean by his words.



    After all, the question mark in the end written by Stuart G. may or may not be correct but that would be for the referee to decide.
  • KMeloneyKMeloney Members Posts: 4,755 ✭✭
    I'm just glad Alfie Barronrat wasn't involved.
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,115 ✭✭
    edited Jan 14, 2019 10:59am #15
    Augster wrote:


    I think he should have taken the penalty. Retroactively he should take the penalty just to show he knows he was in the wrong and didn't even realize he had done it. He missed the cut anyway, so why not play by the Rules?




    If he actually was aware of the infraction, I suspect he probably would have. The context of the interview had nothing to do with it being a possible rules violation and I've seen no other mention of the possibility anywhere else.


    Mr. Bean wrote:


    After all, the question mark in the end written by Stuart G. may or may not be correct but ...




    Pretty sure a question mark is valid for rhetorical questions (but then as an engineer, I'm certainly not the most reliable source ;-)



    But I agree completely that the proper course would be to interview Jordan to gauge intent prior to any ruling.
  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean Members Posts: 3,895 ✭✭
    Stuart G. wrote:

    Mr. Bean wrote:


    After all, the question mark in the end written by Stuart G. may or may not be correct but ...




    Pretty sure a question mark is valid for rhetorical questions (but then as an engineer, I'm certainly not the most reliable source ;-)



    But I agree completely that the proper course would be to interview Jordan to gauge intent prior to any ruling.




    But there you already assume it is a question, although a rhetorical one.



    Could also be "I might as well leave the flag in, It couldn't hurt anything. Right! "



    In this version the word 'right' would be there to reinforce or seal the decision to putt with the flag in.



    Personally I believe in the question mark in which case a breach is extremely close but as already said, we cannot know for sure without interviewing both players.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Posts: 17,714 ClubWRX
    edited Jan 15, 2019 4:20pm #17
    Tournament is over, you don't retroactively asked to be assessed a penalty, lol. Rules require no such thing.



    Haven't even seen anything to suggest the issue was raised with him but maybe that's in here somewhere.



    Edit: apparently not. Nothing Jordan needs to do other than not do it again.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,130 ✭✭
    So now does he miss the cut by even more?

    Ping G400
    Callaway Rogue 3w, HW
    Ping G 4 hybrid
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS
    Vokey 58 M grind
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • SawgrassSawgrass Members Posts: 14,929 ✭✭
    If we’re going to pick apart Speith’s words to see if they constituted asking for advice, we should similarly pick apart Bryson’s response to see if it was providing advice (whether or not the advice was asked for).
  • antipantip Members Posts: 447 ✭✭
    Sawgrass wrote:


    If we’re going to pick apart Speith’s words to see if they constituted asking for advice, we should similarly pick apart Bryson’s response to see if it was providing advice (whether or not the advice was asked for).
    Agree, and if there was truly a smoking gun, I expect it would have happened. The Tournament Committee would highly likely have access to more information than the rest of us and if there was something a little hinky, there would be a number of handling strategies that do not involve feeding the media machine.



    That said, it's good for the forum to discuss something that appears questionable under the rules. It offers an opportunity to become more familiar with the requirements of the rules and their application on the course.
  • HitEmTrueHitEmTrue North TexasMembers Posts: 6,380 ✭✭
    Someone will get his name right...eventually.

  • jj9000jj9000 ClubWRX Posts: 2,632 ClubWRX
    I bet he calls his putter cover The Speath Sheath.
  • hendog39hendog39 Members Posts: 109 ✭✭
    He was joking with bryson and not seeking advice
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,115 ✭✭
    edited Jan 15, 2019 4:36am #24
    Mr. Bean wrote:


    But there you already assume it is a question, although a rhetorical one.



    Could also be "I might as well leave the flag in, It couldn't hurt anything. Right! "



    In this version the word 'right' would be there to reinforce or seal the decision to putt with the flag in.



    Personally I believe in the question mark in which case a breach is extremely close but as already said, we cannot know for sure without interviewing both players.




    Yes, both should be interviewed but ... it wasn't really an assumption. It was based on the inflection used when Bryson told the story. There is no doubt in my mind that it was a question, or to be more precise, there is no doubt that Bryson interpreted it as a question.



    And I wasn't assuming it was rhetorical. I just said it wasn't clear from the story either way whether it was intended by Jordan to be rhetorical or not.
Sign In or Register to comment.