From natural to unnatural

OTTOTT Members Posts: 186 ✭✭
edited Jan 13, 2019 4:47pm in Instruction & Academy #1
Hi all,

I'll try keep this a little condensed in the hope someone can slap me in the face a say wake up and do what naturally comes to you. I know there's a big golfwrx community.



Im in Ireland and hold a 5 handicap. 44 yrs old and in good shape.

I got to 5 hitting a a fade, with a good short game. I get frequent lessons and I am on the cusp of coming into another season and would prefer not to be fighting new swing changes.

I had struggles with a slight OTT and Early Extension. But have since sorted these through a lot of hard graft on the range. I hit roughly 2-300 balls a week.

Now here's my dilemma. I can hit a draw when I start settling with the change on the range, and also with "as I call them" my " training wheels". It's basically an offset gate drill that forces me to swing inside out.

Now from someone that hits a natural fade to seeing himself draw the ball it's like winning the lotto. But I just can't get it going on the course. My main miss is a push fade, or a straight push.. it's driving me nuts.

I also have a habit of sliding more than turning which I know can make this miss worse. As you can imagine aiming up the right side of every fairway and at every green and missing right isn't much fun.

I'm stubborn from the point of view I'll keep at something until I crack it but this is really testing me at the moment.

Because I've drilled so much over the past couple of seasons and tried to stick with the programme I've got my swing path from -5ish back to 0. Problem is I'm finding it very hard to get up into plus figures.



My swing path is so neutral that I'm missing on both sides of centre because I'm doing a lot of work with my hands to try square the face and not loose it right.

Too closed coming in and it's a miss left. Too open and it's anywhere from 5-30 yrds right depending on the club.



If I try hit up and right with the driver I'm pushing and push fading miles right.

My delivery with the driver seems to be constantly down. Anywhere from -0.5 to -2. I can't seem to hit up and get the draw going on a consistent basis. As you can imagine it's no fun trying to post a score with a card in the pocket with that miss.



Now here's the million dollar question.

I'm a little nervous that if I go back to playing a fade that I'll slip back into an OOT move and I'll undo 2 yrs of work and end up going backwards.



I feel like I'm halfway across the bridge over a river but don't know whether to move forward or go back.



I follow Monte avidly and a lot of his thinking is starting to have me asking questions about whether it's worth my while to keep chipping away at the draw. I have roughly 12 weeks to go before qualifying comps kick off and I'd much prefer to spend the last 4 weeks on my putting, wedge play and short game without having to worry about whether or not my swing will hold up..



I will see if I can ad some trackman figures for my 8 iron and driver swings.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

Comments

  • FireballerFireballer Members Posts: 387 ✭✭
    I cant say Ive got advice, but Im sure you can get more out of the driver swinging 104-107
  • copperjeffcopperjeff Members Posts: 919 ✭✭
    A solid swing can produce a fade or a draw. Play the flight your swing produces.



    Having said that, there is nothing wrong with trying to improve your swing, and having ball flight change as a result.



    Sounds like you are really having some issues controlling face angle swing to swing. Something in your swing is playing into that. Best to take a lesson or 3 in an effort to improve mechanics allowing face to match up easier, and go with whatever flight comes along.
    Golfing Ginger
    So glad I picked an outside activity...
  • Conner GolfConner Golf ClubWRX Posts: 82 ClubWRX
    Not sure if you are trying to change you stock shot or wanting to shape your shots around the coarse. But for shaping different shots I have found that by mixing up my shots on the range, draw to fade to straight and so force,especially working on the change in my weight shift per shot helps in my ability to go from one shot type to another out on the coarse.
  • GolfjackGolfjack All about the rotation Members Posts: 1,003 ✭✭
    Not quite sure it's one or the other. Just take your new swing, open your stance (more) and open your clubface (slightly less). It's more or less the same swing right. But for fades I prefer to try (not successful all the time) hitting a power fade as it's easy for me to leave it short hitting normal fades and lofting it higher.



    I think for your driver you're swinging more out and up, but the clubface is open. Maybe in your quest to rid yourself of OTT move, you're not swinging left. or keeping your hands in front of your body.
    TM M4 Driver 10.5
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    4H (22) Aeroburner TP
    Mizuno MP-15 4, 5 iron, Project X LZ 6.5
    Mizuno MP-5 6-PW, Project X LZ 6.5
    Wedges Mizuno T7 50, 56, 60
    Honma HP 1002

    Alternate set:
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  • dg_1983dg_1983 Members Posts: 1,283 ✭✭
    You are a decent golfer, practise alot and guess play often? What is your goal this season? Lower handicap? Better ball striking? More distance? Better course management?



    Drawing the ball will help you achieve none of them. An improvement of ball striking will by ensuring that you aren't hitting a weak spinny fade or a massive uncontrollable hook. I'm 100% with you on the "don't want to fight swing changes" but better ball striking consistently only comes with swing improvements. At a 5 handicap you can play just not tight enough. You look at scratch golfers and think they don't do a whole lot differently aside from just "get it round better" but having been where you are, the 5 levels of ball striking and therefore control that the scratch guy has is the difference.



    I don't know your game or swing but by those numbers it looks like you've way too much curve and spin, what's the start lines like?



    You are giving up alot of carry on the driver. Your ball speed is comparable to mine but I average 260 carry ( I've got about 1000 drivers worth of data to evidence that). Looks like way too much side spin and not enough launch? That's a delivery issue for sure.



    Working on your number one technical priority doesn't need to be an overhaul swing change and it should be something that yeilds quick results at your level (is you get the pure strike but takes a while to engrain)





    2014 Low 2.9
    2015 Low 2.6
    2016 Low 2.1
    2017 Target 1.4
    2018 Target 0.4
    2019 Target +15
    Current 0.2
  • CwebbCwebb Members Posts: 5,877 ✭✭
    edited Jan 14, 2019 2:23am #7
    Try not hitting any "shot shape" for a while. Just hit it solid. See what it usually does in the air. Then commit to whatever that is.



    Maybe you'll get lucky and it's really straight with little curve. Pick a target....play stock shot to it. Instead of trying to "hit the right shot shape" for the hole
  • OTTOTT Members Posts: 186 ✭✭
    dg_1983 wrote:


    You are a decent golfer, practise alot and guess play often? What is your goal this season? Lower handicap? Better ball striking? More distance? Better course management?



    Drawing the ball will help you achieve none of them. An improvement of ball striking will by ensuring that you aren't hitting a weak spinny fade or a massive uncontrollable hook. I'm 100% with you on the "don't want to fight swing changes" but better ball striking consistently only comes with swing improvements. At a 5 handicap you can play just not tight enough. You look at scratch golfers and think they don't do a whole lot differently aside from just "get it round better" but having been where you are, the 5 levels of ball striking and therefore control that the scratch guy has is the difference.



    I don't know your game or swing but by those numbers it looks like you've way too much curve and spin, what's the start lines like?



    You are giving up alot of carry on the driver. Your ball speed is comparable to mine but I average 260 carry ( I've got about 1000 drivers worth of data to evidence that). Looks like way too much side spin and not enough launch? That's a delivery issue for sure.



    Working on your number one technical priority doesn't need to be an overhaul swing change and it should be something that yeilds quick results at your level (is you get the pure strike but takes a while to engrain)




    My main priority is better strike with more consistent delivery.

    My goal is to get to 3.

    Lost shots for me would be penalized by blocks be off the tee usually either getting me out of position and causing an odd bogie or going off the planet and causing reloads.

    By I'd prefer to own one flight and take at least most of one side out of play on the course.

    Had a level par round 2 weeks ago off our winter tees and ball striking was good but from looking at the hole 19 data all my misses were right... I know it's taking out the left side of the course but it was my short game that morning that kept me low.
  • thecolonelthecolonel Members Posts: 37 ✭✭
    Talk me through your training wheels



    I've started doing this with some success, inside the rear ball and out to the other side of the orange cane 39299e8bd2c76f7177715bd1d8b26ba4.jpgeeab93fe41aa584a3208ace39faf27b0.jpg
  • dg_1983dg_1983 Members Posts: 1,283 ✭✭
    edited Jan 14, 2019 3:35am #10
    The good thing is 5->3 isn't crazy. It's just a couple low rounds and bringing your average days down a stroke closer to buffer. It's not like 6->5 where you lose a shot to buffer (2-1)



    Own a stock shot - 100% with you. Play your fade, for most folks it's most controlled. Your not hitting a good fade though going by those driver numbers, need to strengthen it up a bit. If you are Approaching 160 ball speeds you should be well above average off the tee, bordering good and fairly long in the amateur ranks, you've got another 10yards carry in your swing speed easy with some tweaks.



    The big miss is all about face and path, getting them more netrual and consistent. You know that already, but you can't just add in "sqaure" without disaster. You got to improve your delivery.



    Check out eirc Cogorno, his stuff is really well putt together.



    Good luck buddy.
    2014 Low 2.9
    2015 Low 2.6
    2016 Low 2.1
    2017 Target 1.4
    2018 Target 0.4
    2019 Target +15
    Current 0.2
  • OTTOTT Members Posts: 186 ✭✭
    dg_1983 wrote:


    The good thing is 5->3 isn't crazy. It's just a couple low rounds and bringing your average days down a stroke closer to buffer. It's not like 6->5 where you lose a shot to buffer (2-1)



    Own a stock shot - 100% with you. Play your fade, for most folks it's most controlled. Your not hitting a good fade though going by those driver numbers, need to strengthen it up a bit. If you are Approaching 160 ball speeds you should be well above average off the tee, bordering good and fairly long in the amateur ranks, you've got another 10yards carry in your swing speed easy with some tweaks.



    The big miss is all about face and path, getting them more netrual and consistent. You know that already, but you can't just add in "sqaure" without disaster. You got to improve your delivery.



    Check out eirc Cogorno, his stuff is really well putt together.



    Good luck buddy.




    Cheers pal.

    Driver numbers could be improved on... I'd like to hit push fades as my main shot... While the draw is nice for me I feel it's more heartache than it's worth.. I've always seen the game in curves and had always seen it left to right...

    I'm due for a driver fitting soon so that may yeild some results.



    Two yrs ago I was having a real tough time with contact due to the OTT and the EE. I was hopping between 6 and 8 Hcap because of it. From the swing path changes the contact has improved drastically and now I'm fighting a different battle in dispersion... It's a mad game..
  • dg_1983dg_1983 Members Posts: 1,283 ✭✭
    As you come down, the margins get smaller, the return on effort gets smaller, the low hanging fruit a gets less. It just gets harder. Once you have sorted out your big miss no doubt you will start to focus on proximity to the hole. That's what I work on, shots inside 160 on skytrak. Moving average proximity from say 20feet to 15feet is ALOT of work across technique, course managemnt, skills games etc. It's waaàaay easier move from missing greens to hitting greens.



    I take my hat off to the really low guys, they are really talented and put in a ton of work.
    2014 Low 2.9
    2015 Low 2.6
    2016 Low 2.1
    2017 Target 1.4
    2018 Target 0.4
    2019 Target +15
    Current 0.2
  • OTTOTT Members Posts: 186 ✭✭
    dg_1983 wrote:


    As you come down, the margins get smaller, the return on effort gets smaller, the low hanging fruit a gets less. It just gets harder. Once you have sorted out your big miss no doubt you will start to focus on proximity to the hole. That's what I work on, shots inside 160 on skytrak. Moving average proximity from say 20feet to 15feet is ALOT of work across technique, course managemnt, skills games etc. It's waaàaay easier move from missing greens to hitting greens.



    I take my hat off to the really low guys, they are really talented and put in a ton of work.




    Yes I'm now 44 and took the game up 10 years ago.. played sports all my life so that helps as I'm very competitive and driven.

    I think that's why I push myself so much... The lower I get the more importance I see in the small things. Like you said proximity is a big one. But at the moment for me o have to fix the misses... Once that's sound then I'll concentrate on the short stuff.. I'm one of the lucky ones that has a 9-5 job the 2 kids the wife and the bills but can still manage to play and practice like I do. Having a forgiving better half and also my 11yr old son plays as well helps.. he drives me more than anything else I think.

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