EPIC FLASH SUB ZERO DIAMOND HEADS???? (Pics added page 7)

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  • xjohnxxjohnx Members Posts: 2,005 ✭✭
    callaway.7 wrote:



    It has more to do with face design and CG I believe. The 2 diamond is for players that miss towards the toe, 3 diamonds I believe is high on the face and I don't know about 1 diamond.



    I have the 2 diamond and it is significantly better on my toe misses.




    That is a very interesting theory. With the artificial intelligence behind the face it would make sense for callaway to design club faces that suit certain misses better than other ones. Though you would think that if this is a possibility, why wouldn't they make this an option for the everyday consumer,? I have been a long time callaway loyalist, but this is putting a bad taste in my mouth. The thought that tour players are getting significantly superior product to than the consumer is aggravating. I am fully aware that for the majority of average golfers, a "strike specific" face is effectively useless. but for the more advanced players with a consistent, or predictable miss, why would they not want to provide them with the best possible driver?




    I can see the frustration here but, to defend the oems a little. here is my thought. The consumers have historically been overwhelmed with that many choices and since most consumers still buy off the rack, it just doesn't make a ton of sense for that many skus at retail. You'd risk production forecasts being way off and excess inventory being left on rack and in warehouses which is the last thing a manufacturer ever wants.



    As for the tour guys needing the options. The most important thing to the manufacturers here is getting as many guys as possible to bag those clubs and be visible on tv hitting them. This influences that same consumer to go buy it off the rack later that day. However, if you didn't build options for the tour professionals that did not perform at a level of of significance that can be seen in data and on the fairways, he is not going to see the value of potentially risking tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is the difference a couple fairways during the week can cost these guys.



    So this is all a game of the oems value vs. the tour pro's value.
  • callaway.7callaway.7 Members Posts: 165 ✭✭
    xjohnx wrote:

    callaway.7 wrote:



    It has more to do with face design and CG I believe. The 2 diamond is for players that miss towards the toe, 3 diamonds I believe is high on the face and I don't know about 1 diamond.



    I have the 2 diamond and it is significantly better on my toe misses.




    That is a very interesting theory. With the artificial intelligence behind the face it would make sense for callaway to design club faces that suit certain misses better than other ones. Though you would think that if this is a possibility, why wouldn't they make this an option for the everyday consumer,? I have been a long time callaway loyalist, but this is putting a bad taste in my mouth. The thought that tour players are getting significantly superior product to than the consumer is aggravating. I am fully aware that for the majority of average golfers, a "strike specific" face is effectively useless. but for the more advanced players with a consistent, or predictable miss, why would they not want to provide them with the best possible driver?




    I can see the frustration here but, to defend the oems a little. here is my thought. The consumers have historically been overwhelmed with that many choices and since most consumers still buy off the rack, it just doesn't make a ton of sense for that many skus at retail. You'd risk production forecasts being way off and excess inventory being left on rack and in warehouses which is the last thing a manufacturer ever wants.



    As for the tour guys needing the options. The most important thing to the manufacturers here is getting as many guys as possible to bag those clubs and be visible on tv hitting them. This influences that same consumer to go buy it off the rack later that day. However, if you didn't build options for the tour professionals that did not perform at a level of of significance that can be seen in data and on the fairways, he is not going to see the value of potentially risking tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is the difference a couple fairways during the week can cost these guys.



    So this is all a game of the oems value vs. the tour pro's value.




    I definitely see your point. In retrospection, Callaway could theoretically put into place something similar to Titleist's MOTO program that they ran with the 915D4. You couldn't just walk into any shop and pick one up off the rack, you had to go get fit, and if the fitter determined you needed the "limited production" model, you could get one custom ordered. I would gladly wait a little longer to receive my club, and pay a little bit more, if the product was genuinely a seriously better fit for my game.
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  • EaglesGolf99EaglesGolf99 (.... Formerly Known As RaidersGolf99) Foxboro, MAMembers Posts: 2,459 ✭✭✭✭✭✭


    Pure speculation, but I could see one of the diamond heads being modeled after the Epic Forged. 450cc, slightly deeper face and a more rounded shape.




    I'd love to see that.
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  • elwhippyelwhippy Members Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Which seems normal as what a Tour Pro need differs from us mortals.
  • UnderPar18UnderPar18 Previously Ecsugolf1 Members Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    The diamond models are simply to keep up with the tour demand. Multiple guys coming from other companies and need to feel comfortable with the shape and performance of the driver. The different diamond models have slightly different shapes and CG is different for different MOIs
  • 1b!ggolfnut1b!ggolfnut Members Posts: 162 ✭✭✭
    callaway.7 wrote:



    It has more to do with face design and CG I believe. The 2 diamond is for players that miss towards the toe, 3 diamonds I believe is high on the face and I don't know about 1 diamond.



    I have the 2 diamond and it is significantly better on my toe misses.




    That is a very interesting theory. With the artificial intelligence behind the face it would make sense for callaway to design club faces that suit certain misses better than other ones. Though you would think that if this is a possibility, why wouldn't they make this an option for the everyday consumer,? I have been a long time callaway loyalist, but this is putting a bad taste in my mouth. The thought that tour players are getting significantly superior product to than the consumer is aggravating. I am fully aware that for the majority of average golfers, a "strike specific" face is effectively useless. but for the more advanced players with a consistent, or predictable miss, why would they not want to provide them with the best possible driver?




    I will take the picture of the 2 diamond tomorrow... Here is a 1 diamond that I have.
  • 1b!ggolfnut1b!ggolfnut Members Posts: 162 ✭✭✭

    callaway.7 wrote:



    It has more to do with face design and CG I believe. The 2 diamond is for players that miss towards the toe, 3 diamonds I believe is high on the face and I don't know about 1 diamond.



    I have the 2 diamond and it is significantly better on my toe misses.




    That is a very interesting theory. With the artificial intelligence behind the face it would make sense for callaway to design club faces that suit certain misses better than other ones. Though you would think that if this is a possibility, why wouldn't they make this an option for the everyday consumer,? I have been a long time callaway loyalist, but this is putting a bad taste in my mouth. The thought that tour players are getting significantly superior product to than the consumer is aggravating. I am fully aware that for the majority of average golfers, a "strike specific" face is effectively useless. but for the more advanced players with a consistent, or predictable miss, why would they not want to provide them with the best possible driver?




    I will take the picture of the 2 diamond tomorrow... Here is a 1 diamond that I have.
  • radimanradiman Members Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭


    callaway.7 wrote:



    It has more to do with face design and CG I believe. The 2 diamond is for players that miss towards the toe, 3 diamonds I believe is high on the face and I don't know about 1 diamond.



    I have the 2 diamond and it is significantly better on my toe misses.




    That is a very interesting theory. With the artificial intelligence behind the face it would make sense for callaway to design club faces that suit certain misses better than other ones. Though you would think that if this is a possibility, why wouldn't they make this an option for the everyday consumer,? I have been a long time callaway loyalist, but this is putting a bad taste in my mouth. The thought that tour players are getting significantly superior product to than the consumer is aggravating. I am fully aware that for the majority of average golfers, a "strike specific" face is effectively useless. but for the more advanced players with a consistent, or predictable miss, why would they not want to provide them with the best possible driver?




    I will take the picture of the 2 diamond tomorrow... Here is a 1 diamond that I have.





    I like this quite a bit! How is the sound? Would you say it is loud like the retail versions are being reported as?
    Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9* HZRDUS Smoke Green "The Hulk" 60 6.5TX
    Callaway Epic Flash SZ 15* Evenflow Black 75 6.5
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  • 1b!ggolfnut1b!ggolfnut Members Posts: 162 ✭✭✭
    The feel is the same as epic
  • radimanradiman Members Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭


    The feel is the same as epic




    Just so I understand, are you referring to the original Epic or are you saying it's the same as the Epic Flash?
    Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9* HZRDUS Smoke Green "The Hulk" 60 6.5TX
    Callaway Epic Flash SZ 15* Evenflow Black 75 6.5
    Callaway X-Forged UT 21* w/Motore Speeder TS 8.8 X
    Callaway 2016 Apex Pro 4-PW KBS 130X
    Taylormade Spider X Navy/White 35"
    Callaway MD3 52, 56, 60
    All sitting comfortably in my Sun Mountain Sync Cart Bag
  • moorebaseballmoorebaseball Members Posts: 272 ✭✭✭✭


    The feel is the same as epic




    So sound is the same?
  • tphilptphilp Members Posts: 121 ✭✭✭
    If they produced 14 different models for every miss their cost of production would be through the roof. Then people would be complaining about drivers costing 1000 plus. For their tour staff it’s reasonable because it’s only max a couple hundred custom units and it’s an advertising expense. Same thing for Scotty and the GSS most people will just complain about a 1000 plus putter
  • 1b!ggolfnut1b!ggolfnut Members Posts: 162 ✭✭✭
    radiman wrote:



    The feel is the same as epic




    Just so I understand, are you referring to the original Epic or are you saying it's the same as the Epic Flash?




    Original Epic SZ and Flash SZ are the same.




    The feel is the same as epic




    So sound is the same?




    Sound = feel to me
  • 1b!ggolfnut1b!ggolfnut Members Posts: 162 ✭✭✭
    edited Jan 25, 2019 5:19pm #45
    1 Diamond and No Diamond = neutral to slightly more draw biased than others

    2 diamond = fade biased (which is why this is my favorite image/taunt.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':taunt:' /> )

    3 diamond = higher more forward CG. Those who hit it high on the face will see increased spin and ball speed.
  • radimanradiman Members Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭


    1 Diamond and No Diamond = neutral to slightly more draw biased than others

    2 diamond = fade biased (which is why this is my favorite image/taunt.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':taunt:' /> )

    3 diamond = higher more forward CG. Those who hit it high on the face will see increased spin and ball speed.




    Thanks for sharing! Is the 2 diamond drastically different in shape and size?
    Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9* HZRDUS Smoke Green "The Hulk" 60 6.5TX
    Callaway Epic Flash SZ 15* Evenflow Black 75 6.5
    Callaway X-Forged UT 21* w/Motore Speeder TS 8.8 X
    Callaway 2016 Apex Pro 4-PW KBS 130X
    Taylormade Spider X Navy/White 35"
    Callaway MD3 52, 56, 60
    All sitting comfortably in my Sun Mountain Sync Cart Bag
  • 1b!ggolfnut1b!ggolfnut Members Posts: 162 ✭✭✭
    I don’t think there is a size difference...
  • UnderPar18UnderPar18 Previously Ecsugolf1 Members Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    radiman wrote:



    1 Diamond and No Diamond = neutral to slightly more draw biased than others

    2 diamond = fade biased (which is why this is my favorite image/taunt.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':taunt:' /> )

    3 diamond = higher more forward CG. Those who hit it high on the face will see increased spin and ball speed.




    Thanks for sharing! Is the 2 diamond drastically different in shape and size?




    1 and 2 diamond heads are a smaller more compact head
  • mtnbiker5mtnbiker5 Members Posts: 332 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Jan 26, 2019 7:14pm #49
    Being told this is not a very good driver now. Very plastic like and no difference in performance whatsoever
  • TheMoneyShotTheMoneyShot ***FIGJAM/Twirl of Doom*** Members Posts: 31,005 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    mtnbiker5 wrote:


    Being told this is not a very good driver now




    Cancelled my order before ever hitting it based on the feedback on here. The power of Wrx...
  • FarrowFarrow Members Posts: 627

    mtnbiker5 wrote:


    Being told this is not a very good driver now




    Cancelled my order before ever hitting it based on the feedback on here. The power of Wrx...




    So that you can demo it first right? It seems silly to completely disregard a club you’ve never hit just because a handful of guys on the internet didn’t like it. From what I’ve been reading it really seems like a 50/50 split on those who dislike it and those that do like it. It’s definitely on my list to try this spring along with M5 and F9.
  • BrizamBrizam Junkie ClubWRX Posts: 962 ClubWRX
    Hit the Flash sub zero last night.

    Looks good behind the ball. I don’t mine the line on the crown reminds me of the FT Tour and I liked that head. At address it’s one of the best looking drivers Callaway has made in a while.

    Performance was good. I was impressed. I was getting some pretty good results even with a shaft that was a bit too hefty for me (Accra Proto). But the sound ugh. It would take some getting used to.



    Going to be a fun year in the driver category
  • TheMoneyShotTheMoneyShot ***FIGJAM/Twirl of Doom*** Members Posts: 31,005 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Farrow wrote:


    mtnbiker5 wrote:


    Being told this is not a very good driver now




    Cancelled my order before ever hitting it based on the feedback on here. The power of Wrx...




    So that you can demo it first right? It seems silly to completely disregard a club you’ve never hit just because a handful of guys on the internet didn’t like it. From what I’ve been reading it really seems like a 50/50 split on those who dislike it and those that do like it. It’s definitely on my list to try this spring along with M5 and F9.




    I’ll still test the Flash but it will not be on my own dime;)
  • LemondeLemonde Members Posts: 745 ✭✭
    Like I just posted in the main Flash thread, TM has been the lighting rod for this type of thing for far too long, now the shoe is on the other foot. There is nothing wrong with secret tour heads but I know it drives regular consumers crazy.



    Bring back the 440 Razr Fit Xtreme with flash face tech and jailbreak and I’ll reconsider Callaway fro drivers, until then it shall be TM and their sub 440 offerings
    Driver - TM M5 Tour 435 10.5 Tensei Stock Orange X
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  • TheMoneyShotTheMoneyShot ***FIGJAM/Twirl of Doom*** Members Posts: 31,005 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Lemonde wrote:


    Like I just posted in the main Flash thread, TM has been the lighting rod for this type of thing for far too long, now the shoe is on the other foot. There is nothing wrong with secret tour heads but I know it drives regular consumers crazy.



    Bring back the 440 Razr Fit Xtreme with flash face tech and jailbreak and I’ll reconsider Callaway fro drivers, until then it shall be TM and their sub 440 offerings




    Very well said!
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,948 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Farrow wrote:


    mtnbiker5 wrote:


    Being told this is not a very good driver now




    Cancelled my order before ever hitting it based on the feedback on here. The power of Wrx...




    So that you can demo it first right? It seems silly to completely disregard a club you've never hit just because a handful of guys on the internet didn't like it. From what I've been reading it really seems like a 50/50 split on those who dislike it and those that do like it. It's definitely on my list to try this spring along with M5 and F9.




    And to think some people swear they're not influenced by reviews, posts, advertising, etc. image/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rofl:' />
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  • UnderPar18UnderPar18 Previously Ecsugolf1 Members Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    jay_dwight wrote:


    Retail vs 3 Diamond




    Great pictures. As I mentioned several times on this site the 3 diamond head is much larger and without the horizontal crown line. Most people like compact heads but this is why this club intrigued me so much. It’s a larger head with more MOI and looks more like my Rogue!
  • radimanradiman Members Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jan 27, 2019 3:50pm #59
    UnderPar18 wrote:

    jay_dwight wrote:


    Retail vs 3 Diamond


    Great pictures. As I mentioned several times on this site the 3 diamond head is much larger and without the horizontal crown line. Most people like compact heads but this is why this club intrigued me so much. It’s a larger head with more MOI and looks more like my Rogue!




    I wonder how it compares to the non-SZ model. They look pretty similar shape wise.



    I'm personally all about that single diamond posted earlier on this page. Not as rounded as the stock SZ and looks like a smaller footprint. The line doesn't bother me, take it or leave it I guess.
    Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9* HZRDUS Smoke Green "The Hulk" 60 6.5TX
    Callaway Epic Flash SZ 15* Evenflow Black 75 6.5
    Callaway X-Forged UT 21* w/Motore Speeder TS 8.8 X
    Callaway 2016 Apex Pro 4-PW KBS 130X
    Taylormade Spider X Navy/White 35"
    Callaway MD3 52, 56, 60
    All sitting comfortably in my Sun Mountain Sync Cart Bag
  • jay_dwightjay_dwight Members Posts: 525 ✭✭✭✭✭
    UnderPar18 wrote:

    jay_dwight wrote:


    Retail vs 3 Diamond




    Great pictures. As I mentioned several times on this site the 3 diamond head is much larger and without the horizontal crown line. Most people like compact heads but this is why this club intrigued me so much. It’s a larger head with more MOI and looks more like my Rogue!




    It is literally a completely different club. More differences than similarities.
  • radimanradiman Members Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    jay_dwight wrote:

    UnderPar18 wrote:

    jay_dwight wrote:


    Retail vs 3 Diamond




    Great pictures. As I mentioned several times on this site the 3 diamond head is much larger and without the horizontal crown line. Most people like compact heads but this is why this club intrigued me so much. It’s a larger head with more MOI and looks more like my Rogue!




    It is literally a completely different club. More differences than similarities.




    Have you hit it? Wonder if it has the flash face or not.
    Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9* HZRDUS Smoke Green "The Hulk" 60 6.5TX
    Callaway Epic Flash SZ 15* Evenflow Black 75 6.5
    Callaway X-Forged UT 21* w/Motore Speeder TS 8.8 X
    Callaway 2016 Apex Pro 4-PW KBS 130X
    Taylormade Spider X Navy/White 35"
    Callaway MD3 52, 56, 60
    All sitting comfortably in my Sun Mountain Sync Cart Bag

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