Callaway Epic Flash Review

2
3

Comments

  • aklimszaaklimsza  13WRX Points: 0Handicap: 2Members Posts: 13
    Joined:  #32
    To anyone judging my use of shaft, I work at a tier 3 Dicks Sporting Goods, I do not get a lot of shaft options, I would use my own X-Stiff, but I use a taylormade. This review was only meant as some insight to the new claims callaway are making. Overall I've found this to not be as good as the Rogue or the Flash. This is my opinion, you are welcome to yours. When I can get 320 with a stiff flex on the rogue and average 303 with this, 12 yards cant be blamed on my lack of shaft choice.
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • GC70GC70 What's Next? State of Hockey 7732WRX Points: 284Handicap: 7.1ClubWRX Posts: 7,732 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #33
    After more testing, the flash sz launches a little higher than my rogue sz both with t1100. It spins about the same but has better toe misses above equator. Good driver terrible sound and colors.

    I also dont understand making a sequel to the flash and ignoring rogue totally. Why would you skip releases as rogue is pretty dam good




    I believe the new Rogue will be next years Driver. Callaway is going every other year with releases.



    2020 will be the ball that changed the ball, that again will change the ball.



    PS- I do love The CSX!
    Posted:
    Atmos Blue 6S
     Atmos Red 7S
    Atmos Blue 8S
    Apex CF19 4-AW C-Taper Lite
    SM7's RAW 50F - 54S - 58M - 62M
    Nike 006 Paul Casey Proto (Oven)
    Nike 006 Rory Proto (Oven)
    Scotty T22 Newport
    Pro V1x /

    WITB Link
  • Rosco1216Rosco1216  3112WRX Points: 267Members Posts: 3,112 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #34
    The questions come from the information you gave us. All you stated was launch angle for both, and then spin for the flash. Need more info and all the variables.
    Posted:
    Driver: currently testing 
    Hybrid: G410 @ 16* - Evenflow Black 85x tipped 1.5”
    Ping i500 4i @ 20* - Modus 120tx
    Miura MC 501 4-P - Modus 120tx
    Bridgestone TourB XW1 50*/55* - X100
    Callaway MD 4 raw 60* - S400
    Scotty Cameron Catalina Two - original, oil can.



    https://www.instagram.com/rc_nova
  • radimanradiman  4743WRX Points: 364Handicap: 3.8Members Posts: 4,743 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #35
    aklimsza wrote:


    To anyone judging my use of shaft, I work at a tier 3 Dicks Sporting Goods, I do not get a lot of shaft options, I would use my own X-Stiff, but I use a taylormade. This review was only meant as some insight to the new claims callaway are making. Overall I've found this to not be as good as the Rogue or the Flash. This is my opinion, you are welcome to yours. When I can get 320 with a stiff flex on the rogue and average 303 with this, 12 yards cant be blamed on my lack of shaft choice.




    Unless you're talking the T800 in the Rogue, I'm still talking these differences with a grain of salt. Even then, I'm curious what the different numbers are with the Rogue to make a 17 yard difference. Is it a lot of roll? Carry numbers are king. Assuming the spin and decent angle are realistic, roll is very hard to calculate.
    Posted:
    Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9* HZRDUS Smoke Green "The Hulk" 60 6.5TX
    Callaway Epic Flash SZ 15* Evenflow Black 75 6.5
    Callaway X-Forged UT 21* w/Motore Speeder TS 8.8 X
    Callaway 2016 Apex Pro 4-PW KBS 130X
    Taylormade Spider X Navy/White 35"
    Callaway MD3 52, 56, 60
    All sitting comfortably in my Sun Mountain Sync Cart Bag
  • aklimszaaklimsza  13WRX Points: 0Handicap: 2Members Posts: 13
    Joined:  #36
    Posted:
  • aklimszaaklimsza  13WRX Points: 0Handicap: 2Members Posts: 13
    Joined:  #37
    I do not have an Epic driver available to me, this is simply a comparison from 2018-2019
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • radimanradiman  4743WRX Points: 364Handicap: 3.8Members Posts: 4,743 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jan 18, 2019 #38
    aklimsza wrote:






    There you go. Thanks for posting the numbers. More spin in the EF and less ball speed. I'm assuming the swing speed is a calculation off of the pre-set 1.45 smash factor. Using the evenflow blue in the Rogue? I still assume that the Evenflow green is probably a cheap noodle and could be effecting the difference. But, for all I know, you maybe using the same shaft.



    Also, to get large of a difference in ball speed, I wouldn't be shocked to see that you weren't catching the middle of the face as often. Which, could be attributed to the shaft to some degree.
    Posted:
    Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9* HZRDUS Smoke Green "The Hulk" 60 6.5TX
    Callaway Epic Flash SZ 15* Evenflow Black 75 6.5
    Callaway X-Forged UT 21* w/Motore Speeder TS 8.8 X
    Callaway 2016 Apex Pro 4-PW KBS 130X
    Taylormade Spider X Navy/White 35"
    Callaway MD3 52, 56, 60
    All sitting comfortably in my Sun Mountain Sync Cart Bag
  • cjyner97cjyner97  102WRX Points: 21Handicap: 5Members Posts: 102 Fairways
    Joined:  #39
    Hennerz wrote:


    I have used the flash for 36 holes so far. I previously had the epic. I found it to be a little bit longer in distance however the real improvement I found was in mishits it was far more forgiving. Sound is a bit different to my old epic but for me the results is worth the upgrade


    I definitely agree with you. I play the epic sz and the new flash sz is more forgiving than the previous epic. Especially on the toe which is where I usually mishit on the driver
    Posted:
    Taylormade SIM w/ Ventus VeloCore blue
    Cobra Speedzone 3 wood w/ Ventus VeloCore red
    Cobra Speedzone 5 wood w/ Ventus VeloCore red
    Mizzy MP20 HMB (4/5) MP20 (6-PW) PX LZ 
    Mizzy T20 50, 54, 58 PX LZ
    Taylormade Spider X
  • cjyner97cjyner97  102WRX Points: 21Handicap: 5Members Posts: 102 Fairways
    Joined:  #40
    aklimsza wrote:




    man if you got that attack angle positive you would easily be caring those drives 280+
    Posted:
    Taylormade SIM w/ Ventus VeloCore blue
    Cobra Speedzone 3 wood w/ Ventus VeloCore red
    Cobra Speedzone 5 wood w/ Ventus VeloCore red
    Mizzy MP20 HMB (4/5) MP20 (6-PW) PX LZ 
    Mizzy T20 50, 54, 58 PX LZ
    Taylormade Spider X
  • CaddiesFaultCaddiesFault Golf Professional  859WRX Points: 140Handicap: -Members Posts: 859 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #41


    Any thoughts on the sound of the driver? Quite a few people putting it in the "loud" category.




    It sounds like an aluminum baseball bat outdoors
    Posted:
    Callaway
  • 3_Jack_Par3_Jack_Par Winter is stupid  6255WRX Points: 309Members, ClubWRX Posts: 6,255 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #42
    aklimsza wrote:


    To anyone judging my use of shaft, I work at a tier 3 Dicks Sporting Goods, I do not get a lot of shaft options, I would use my own X-Stiff, but I use a taylormade. This review was only meant as some insight to the new claims callaway are making. Overall I've found this to not be as good as the Rogue or the Flash. This is my opinion, you are welcome to yours. When I can get 320 with a stiff flex on the rogue and average 303 with this, 12 yards cant be blamed on my lack of shaft choice.


    Thanks for clarifying what you actually tested. Your original post made it sound like the Rogue was your current driver, and that you had an X-stiff shaft that you use in that. I think that was what was confusing people.
    Posted:
    Ping G410 LST 9* (set to -1.5*), 44.5", Fujikura Ventus Black 7X
    Ping G410 LST 14.5* (set to 13*) Aldila Synergy Tour Green 80TX
    Tour Edge CBX Iron-Wood 17* (Black Pearl) HZRDUS Black 85X (or Srixon Z u45 18* Nippon Modus3 120x or Tour Issue TaylorMade M2 Tour 18*, Fujikura Rombax P95x)
    Scratch SB-1 3-PW, Nippon Modus3 120x
    Corey Paul 52*/58*, Nippon Modus3 125 Blue Wedge shafts,  Titleist Vokey SM6 62* M-Grind DG S200 (sometimes)
    Byron Morgan long pipe neck B-17, Brushed Mystic finish, 34"
    WITB Link
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • Doc420Doc420  2367WRX Points: 146Handicap: lotsMembers Posts: 2,367 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #43
    I've hit the flash outside, didn't have a monitor though. It's performance is very similar two the last two models. If you need or want a driver then get one. Any improvement will be minimal in my opinion.
    Posted:
  • Seeking70sSeeking70s Getting Shorter Every Year  89WRX Points: 46Members Posts: 89 Fairways
    Joined:  edited Jan 19, 2019 #44
    So let me sum this up. You work at a Golf Store, you test the clubs with two different shaft both of which are ill fitted, and started a thread about how the club, that will be for sure the Number 1 Seller this year is not good. Sounds reasonable, NOT! Thread should be removed.
    Posted:
  • GC70GC70 What's Next? State of Hockey 7732WRX Points: 284Handicap: 7.1ClubWRX Posts: 7,732 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #45
    I’m so disappointed! I wanted the EFS soooo bad. I love the shape and the way it sets up, but it just couldn’t keep up with the F9 or TS3 at all for me.
    Posted:
    Atmos Blue 6S
     Atmos Red 7S
    Atmos Blue 8S
    Apex CF19 4-AW C-Taper Lite
    SM7's RAW 50F - 54S - 58M - 62M
    Nike 006 Paul Casey Proto (Oven)
    Nike 006 Rory Proto (Oven)
    Scotty T22 Newport
    Pro V1x /

    WITB Link
  • MSG Kunert-zero3PuttsMSG Kunert-zero3Putts  53WRX Points: 1Handicap: 6Members Posts: 53 Bunkers
    Joined:  #46
    And the color!!! Puuuke! When is Calloway going to pull their head out of their butt and get back to the simplicity of flat black.

    The teal used in the Rouge could quite possibly be the worst color choice in the history of club manufacturing.
    Posted:
  • chris975dchris975d Georgia 2033WRX Points: 240ClubWRX Posts: 2,033 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #47
    And the color!!! Puuuke! When is Calloway going to pull their head out of their butt and get back to the simplicity of flat black.

    The teal used in the Rouge could quite possibly be the worst color choice in the history of club manufacturing.




    The uglier they make the stock colors on the club, the more likely they are to upsell customers into their custom paint job options.
    Posted:
    TaylorMade 9* M5 w/GD AD-IZ 6
    TaylorMade M5 3-wood
    TaylorMade M5 5-wood
    Srixon H85 4
    Srixon 5-PW, AW Z585 w/Project X LZ 6.0
    Cleveland RTX4 54*, 58*
    TaylorMade Spider X Copper
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • LemondeLemonde  793WRX Points: 113Members Posts: 793 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #48
    chris975d wrote:

    And the color!!! Puuuke! When is Calloway going to pull their head out of their butt and get back to the simplicity of flat black.

    The teal used in the Rouge could quite possibly be the worst color choice in the history of club manufacturing.




    The uglier they make the stock colors on the club, the more likely they are to upsell customers into their custom paint job options.




    I agree with you. If you love Callaway you will pay he extra c note for the u design.
    Posted:
    Driver On Order - Callaway GBB Epic SZ 440 9 Tour Issue - shaft TBD - HZRDUS Red 6.5 62g
    Fairway - Ping G410 14.5 Evenflow Black 85 6.5 
    Hybrid - Mizuno JPX Fli-Hi 19 HZRDUS Black 85 6.5
    Mizuno JPX 919 Hot Metal Pro 5-PW Nippon Modus Pro 120X
    Wedge Pondering - Hi Toe Bigfoot 60 Indi ATK 50 & 58
    Wedge - Mizuno JDM MP R5 L 50 & 58
    Putter - Rife Phenom.Z 34”
  • LemondeLemonde  793WRX Points: 113Members Posts: 793 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #49
    aklimsza wrote:






    It always amazes me that the poster spelled rogue correctly but everyone else almost 50% of the time spells it “rouge”, including the person who put the shaft name into track man or whatever. Rouge is French for “red”, not a golf head or aldila’s golf shaft lol!
    Posted:
    Driver On Order - Callaway GBB Epic SZ 440 9 Tour Issue - shaft TBD - HZRDUS Red 6.5 62g
    Fairway - Ping G410 14.5 Evenflow Black 85 6.5 
    Hybrid - Mizuno JPX Fli-Hi 19 HZRDUS Black 85 6.5
    Mizuno JPX 919 Hot Metal Pro 5-PW Nippon Modus Pro 120X
    Wedge Pondering - Hi Toe Bigfoot 60 Indi ATK 50 & 58
    Wedge - Mizuno JDM MP R5 L 50 & 58
    Putter - Rife Phenom.Z 34”
  • ssfrannyssfranny  3029WRX Points: 297Lefty Boomers Posts: 3,029 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #50
    I was at Golf Galaxy earlier today and compared the Rouge to the Epic Flash. I have a 105 swingspeed and tried a T800 senior flex. I found both Rouge and EF to have a higher loft and spin rate than my current Epic with stiff flex and was hitting 25 yards less. Weird.
    Posted:
  • double or triple?double or triple?  2016WRX Points: 127Members Posts: 2,016 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #51
    ssfranny wrote:


    I was at Golf Galaxy earlier today and compared the Rouge to the Epic Flash. I have a 105 swingspeed and tried a T800 senior flex. I found both Rouge and EF to have a higher loft and spin rate than my current Epic with stiff flex and was hitting 25 yards less. Weird.




    Wait, you normally use stiff flex in your epic but decided to use senior flex to test rogue and flash and can’t belivee you launched higher and spin more than your epic? Really?
    Posted:
  • ssfrannyssfranny  3029WRX Points: 297Lefty Boomers Posts: 3,029 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #52

    ssfranny wrote:


    I was at Golf Galaxy earlier today and compared the Rouge to the Epic Flash. I have a 105 swingspeed and tried a T800 senior flex. I found both Rouge and EF to have a higher loft and spin rate than my current Epic with stiff flex and was hitting 25 yards less. Weird.




    Wait, you normally use stiff flex in your epic but decided to use senior flex to test rogue and flash and can't belivee you launched higher and spin more than your epic? Really?




    Was being sarcastic image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • double or triple?double or triple?  2016WRX Points: 127Members Posts: 2,016 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #53
    ssfranny wrote:


    ssfranny wrote:


    I was at Golf Galaxy earlier today and compared the Rouge to the Epic Flash. I have a 105 swingspeed and tried a T800 senior flex. I found both Rouge and EF to have a higher loft and spin rate than my current Epic with stiff flex and was hitting 25 yards less. Weird.




    Wait, you normally use stiff flex in your epic but decided to use senior flex to test rogue and flash and can't belivee you launched higher and spin more than your epic? Really?




    Was being sarcastic image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />




    Gotcha. Hard to read that in print. 👍🏼
    Posted:
  • Skaffa77Skaffa77 No place like the Sand Hills!  6917WRX Points: 228ClubWRX Posts: 6,917 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #54
    ssfranny wrote:

    ssfranny wrote:


    I was at Golf Galaxy earlier today and compared the Rouge to the Epic Flash. I have a 105 swingspeed and tried a T800 senior flex. I found both Rouge and EF to have a higher loft and spin rate than my current Epic with stiff flex and was hitting 25 yards less. Weird.




    Wait, you normally use stiff flex in your epic but decided to use senior flex to test rogue and flash and can't belivee you launched higher and spin more than your epic? Really?




    Was being sarcastic image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />




    Wait...you aren’t supposed to use a weaker stiffness vs your norm/swing speed when posting a review? Mind is blown!!!
    Posted:
  • SwingManSwingMan SwingMan  6800WRX Points: 67Handicap: 9.8Members Posts: 6,800 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jan 20, 2019 #55
    zripp3 wrote:

    radiman wrote:

    3 Jack Par wrote:


    Is there a reason you didn't try the Flash with the shaft from your Rogue? Seems like that would be the best way to do a good comparison between the two heads. The variable of a shaft that isn't a good fit for you in flex (and maybe profile -- I don't think you mentioned what you're currently using) seems like it would explain a lot of the differences you mentioned, especially the higher launch. It's entirely possible that even if you did an apples to apples test like that, you wouldn't see major differences compared to your Rogue, but it seems like those results would be a more informative comparison.




    This sums up my thoughts as well. I appreciate him coming in to share his thoughts. I just don't like coming to a conclusion that it isn't as good when there is a big variable like that at play.




    I'll chime in on this point as I went today to compare a few drivers to my gamer for the past 2 years - the 2015 GBB in 9* with a Speeder Evo II 569 stiff. I was fit into this driver a few years ago and have done 2 driver fittings since, both of which yielded no improvements worthy of purchasing a new driver despite my failed attempts anyway...



    I also have a Rogue 9* head that I use with the same shaft. I hit both the G400 Max 9* (also with a Evo II 569 stiff - I have one with a Ping tip) and the Epic Flash 9* with both the EF green 55 stiff and my Evo II.



    Average numbers after 15-20 balls:



    GBB Evo II -

    ball speed - 142.14

    launch - 14.1

    spin - 1943.4

    carry - 246.2

    total - 266.4



    G400 Max -

    141.3

    14.1

    2656

    234

    253



    Epic Flash with Evo II -

    142.2

    14.3

    2204

    243

    264



    Epic Flash with EF Green 55 -

    142.3

    15.2

    2156

    244

    266



    The Flash with the EF 55 was "fun" to hit, more with that shaft than my own. It gave me the feeling of wanting to hit the ball hard, but the numbers don't bear out that I actually did that. Dispersion was similar with all of them. I'm sure there's a level of comfort/familiarity with my driver that I simply can't replicate in 1 session of hitting something new, but it's clear (at least to me) that I'm not going to gain much dropping money on a new driver.




    I don't think the same shaft between model years is a valid comparison.



    The head changes and you need to be fit to a new driver and shaft.



    I looked at the G400 Max comparo you had and shook my head - get another shaft that fits and that spin gets down to 2k or so and you get something.



    So, I can't go with your comparo - it's flawed.
    Posted:
    "My swing is so bad, I look like a caveman killing his lunch" - Lee Trevino

    Bag: Ping G400 Max/TPT Golf Series 17 ● Exotics EX10 Beta 4, 5 wd ● PXG 0317 4H/Tensei CK Pro Red 70 ● Mizuno 919F 5-GW/Accra i80 ● Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 56ES, 60SS ●Evnroll ER8
  • Scooterboy59Scooterboy59  978WRX Points: 86Members Posts: 978 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #56
    aklimsza wrote:


    Got the Epic Flash Driver Demo at work and I’ve had a chance to hit a few with it, overall with all of the new tech they’re pushing with it, I am not impressed. I didn’t see any big differences with my clubhead speed, ball speed, or carry/total. Only difference I can see from the Rogue is an increase of launch angle. With a 9* head I was launching on average of 11.5*. With an average clubhead speed of 115 that’s about a degree and a half higher than what I’d like to see. Spin numbers were OK right around the 2k mark, but I was only averaging 305 total with my highest being 313. If I had an X stiff shaft instead of just stiff I might’ve seen some difference but overall it’s not as good of a driver compared to the Rogue. In my opinion of course
    With a swing speed of 115 you can't give a honest review of the Flash. Need something that fits that swing speed.
    Posted:
  • 3_Jack_Par3_Jack_Par Winter is stupid  6255WRX Points: 309Members, ClubWRX Posts: 6,255 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #57
    SwingMan wrote:

    zripp3 wrote:

    radiman wrote:

    3 Jack Par wrote:


    Is there a reason you didn't try the Flash with the shaft from your Rogue? Seems like that would be the best way to do a good comparison between the two heads. The variable of a shaft that isn't a good fit for you in flex (and maybe profile -- I don't think you mentioned what you're currently using) seems like it would explain a lot of the differences you mentioned, especially the higher launch. It's entirely possible that even if you did an apples to apples test like that, you wouldn't see major differences compared to your Rogue, but it seems like those results would be a more informative comparison.




    This sums up my thoughts as well. I appreciate him coming in to share his thoughts. I just don't like coming to a conclusion that it isn't as good when there is a big variable like that at play.




    I'll chime in on this point as I went today to compare a few drivers to my gamer for the past 2 years - the 2015 GBB in 9* with a Speeder Evo II 569 stiff. I was fit into this driver a few years ago and have done 2 driver fittings since, both of which yielded no improvements worthy of purchasing a new driver despite my failed attempts anyway...



    I also have a Rogue 9* head that I use with the same shaft. I hit both the G400 Max 9* (also with a Evo II 569 stiff - I have one with a Ping tip) and the Epic Flash 9* with both the EF green 55 stiff and my Evo II.



    Average numbers after 15-20 balls:



    GBB Evo II -

    ball speed - 142.14

    launch - 14.1

    spin - 1943.4

    carry - 246.2

    total - 266.4



    G400 Max -

    141.3

    14.1

    2656

    234

    253



    Epic Flash with Evo II -

    142.2

    14.3

    2204

    243

    264



    Epic Flash with EF Green 55 -

    142.3

    15.2

    2156

    244

    266



    The Flash with the EF 55 was "fun" to hit, more with that shaft than my own. It gave me the feeling of wanting to hit the ball hard, but the numbers don't bear out that I actually did that. Dispersion was similar with all of them. I'm sure there's a level of comfort/familiarity with my driver that I simply can't replicate in 1 session of hitting something new, but it's clear (at least to me) that I'm not going to gain much dropping money on a new driver.




    I don't think the same shaft between model years is a valid comparison.



    The head changes and you need to be fit to a new driver and shaft.



    I looked at the G400 Max comparo you had and shook my head - get another shaft that fits and that spin gets down to 2k or so and you get something.



    So, I can't go with your comparo - it's flawed.


    Comparing heads with the same shaft is a valid comparison of those driver heads if you're looking to compare the characteristics of the heads. It's not the same as doing a full-on driver fitting, but it's a good starting point for determining if a new head is going to perform any differently than another one. Sure, you may find that the numbers aren't perfect with that shaft, and that can lead you down the road of trying different shafts to try to dial in performance, but if what you're trying to do is compare heads, doing it with the same shaft that you know is a good fit for you is the best way to start.
    Posted:
    Ping G410 LST 9* (set to -1.5*), 44.5", Fujikura Ventus Black 7X
    Ping G410 LST 14.5* (set to 13*) Aldila Synergy Tour Green 80TX
    Tour Edge CBX Iron-Wood 17* (Black Pearl) HZRDUS Black 85X (or Srixon Z u45 18* Nippon Modus3 120x or Tour Issue TaylorMade M2 Tour 18*, Fujikura Rombax P95x)
    Scratch SB-1 3-PW, Nippon Modus3 120x
    Corey Paul 52*/58*, Nippon Modus3 125 Blue Wedge shafts,  Titleist Vokey SM6 62* M-Grind DG S200 (sometimes)
    Byron Morgan long pipe neck B-17, Brushed Mystic finish, 34"
    WITB Link
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • dueman1dueman1  73WRX Points: 0Members Posts: 73
    Joined:  #58
    zripp3 wrote:

    radiman wrote:

    3 Jack Par wrote:


    Is there a reason you didn't try the Flash with the shaft from your Rogue? Seems like that would be the best way to do a good comparison between the two heads. The variable of a shaft that isn't a good fit for you in flex (and maybe profile -- I don't think you mentioned what you're currently using) seems like it would explain a lot of the differences you mentioned, especially the higher launch. It's entirely possible that even if you did an apples to apples test like that, you wouldn't see major differences compared to your Rogue, but it seems like those results would be a more informative comparison.




    This sums up my thoughts as well. I appreciate him coming in to share his thoughts. I just don't like coming to a conclusion that it isn't as good when there is a big variable like that at play.




    I'll chime in on this point as I went today to compare a few drivers to my gamer for the past 2 years - the 2015 GBB in 9* with a Speeder Evo II 569 stiff. I was fit into this driver a few years ago and have done 2 driver fittings since, both of which yielded no improvements worthy of purchasing a new driver despite my failed attempts anyway...



    I also have a Rogue 9* head that I use with the same shaft. I hit both the G400 Max 9* (also with a Evo II 569 stiff - I have one with a Ping tip) and the Epic Flash 9* with both the EF green 55 stiff and my Evo II.



    Average numbers after 15-20 balls:



    GBB Evo II -

    ball speed - 142.14

    launch - 14.1

    spin - 1943.4

    carry - 246.2

    total - 266.4



    G400 Max -

    141.3

    14.1

    2656

    234

    253



    Epic Flash with Evo II -

    142.2

    14.3

    2204

    243

    264



    Epic Flash with EF Green 55 -

    142.3

    15.2

    2156

    244

    266



    The Flash with the EF 55 was "fun" to hit, more with that shaft than my own. It gave me the feeling of wanting to hit the ball hard, but the numbers don't bear out that I actually did that. Dispersion was similar with all of them. I'm sure there's a level of comfort/familiarity with my driver that I simply can't replicate in 1 session of hitting something new, but it's clear (at least to me) that I'm not going to gain much dropping money on a new driver.




    just curious what your average swing speed in that comparison? thanks
    Posted:
  • ChipNRunChipNRun  2064WRX Points: 455Members Posts: 2,064 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #59
    Adam C wrote:


    You will never see much difference going from one model to the next years model unless the manufacturer has really gone in a different direction and that rarely happens. I think 5 year gaps you might be able to see differences of some significance. Everything else is smoke and mirrors and equals a yard here or there.


    This is what I find with drivers, at least. If I get fitted for a driver in Year 1, it's about Year 5 before I see a driver that does much more than tie my Y1 driver for performance.



    Also take into account what life stage you are in. Physical changes can influence how well a Head + Shaft combo works.
    Posted:
    What's In The Bag *...

    Driver: Calla XR16 Pro 10.5° (set open) / Fuji Evolution II TS Speeder 665 R-flex 63 gr.
    FWs: Tour Edge XRail 4W + 7W / GraphiteDesign G60 R-flex 60 gr.
    or Calla Alpha 815, set 16° + 20° / Fuji Motore Speeder 665 R-flex 62 gr.
    Hybrid: Cobra FlyZ 3H 19° + 4H 22° / Matrix VLCT Altus Lite flex 73 gr.
    Irons: Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i - PW** / KBS Tour 90 R-flex 101 gr.
           4i refitted with SteelFiber 780 HLS Hybrid shaft R Flex 75 gr.
    Wedge: Calla MD3 48°/8.SS + 54°/12.WS + MD.PM 60°/10  | KBS Tour R-flex 110 gr.  | Note: MD4 58°/8.C-grind may replace MD/PM
    Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) / 34" w. Ping Pistol PP60 grip (stock)
    Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag
    Ball: Calla SuperHot - orange
    * Either 7W or 3H left out, depending on course and season.
    ** Wedges: 46°and 48°are competing for bag space.
  • SwingManSwingMan SwingMan  6800WRX Points: 67Handicap: 9.8Members Posts: 6,800 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jan 21, 2019 #60
    3 Jack Par wrote:

    SwingMan wrote:

    zripp3 wrote:

    radiman wrote:

    3 Jack Par wrote:


    Is there a reason you didn't try the Flash with the shaft from your Rogue? Seems like that would be the best way to do a good comparison between the two heads. The variable of a shaft that isn't a good fit for you in flex (and maybe profile -- I don't think you mentioned what you're currently using) seems like it would explain a lot of the differences you mentioned, especially the higher launch. It's entirely possible that even if you did an apples to apples test like that, you wouldn't see major differences compared to your Rogue, but it seems like those results would be a more informative comparison.




    This sums up my thoughts as well. I appreciate him coming in to share his thoughts. I just don't like coming to a conclusion that it isn't as good when there is a big variable like that at play.




    I'll chime in on this point as I went today to compare a few drivers to my gamer for the past 2 years - the 2015 GBB in 9* with a Speeder Evo II 569 stiff. I was fit into this driver a few years ago and have done 2 driver fittings since, both of which yielded no improvements worthy of purchasing a new driver despite my failed attempts anyway...



    I also have a Rogue 9* head that I use with the same shaft. I hit both the G400 Max 9* (also with a Evo II 569 stiff - I have one with a Ping tip) and the Epic Flash 9* with both the EF green 55 stiff and my Evo II.



    Average numbers after 15-20 balls:



    GBB Evo II -

    ball speed - 142.14

    launch - 14.1

    spin - 1943.4

    carry - 246.2

    total - 266.4



    G400 Max -

    141.3

    14.1

    2656

    234

    253



    Epic Flash with Evo II -

    142.2

    14.3

    2204

    243

    264



    Epic Flash with EF Green 55 -

    142.3

    15.2

    2156

    244

    266



    The Flash with the EF 55 was "fun" to hit, more with that shaft than my own. It gave me the feeling of wanting to hit the ball hard, but the numbers don't bear out that I actually did that. Dispersion was similar with all of them. I'm sure there's a level of comfort/familiarity with my driver that I simply can't replicate in 1 session of hitting something new, but it's clear (at least to me) that I'm not going to gain much dropping money on a new driver.




    I don't think the same shaft between model years is a valid comparison.



    The head changes and you need to be fit to a new driver and shaft.



    I looked at the G400 Max comparo you had and shook my head - get another shaft that fits and that spin gets down to 2k or so and you get something.



    So, I can't go with your comparo - it's flawed.


    Comparing heads with the same shaft is a valid comparison of those driver heads if you're looking to compare the characteristics of the heads. It's not the same as doing a full-on driver fitting, but it's a good starting point for determining if a new head is going to perform any differently than another one. Sure, you may find that the numbers aren't perfect with that shaft, and that can lead you down the road of trying different shafts to try to dial in performance, but if what you're trying to do is compare heads, doing it with the same shaft that you know is a good fit for you is the best way to start.




    I think if you're evaluating a driver, you've got to be fit to it - not down the road with a shaft. I'm familiar with the Ping G400 head and Max - and it's apparent that it was a poor fit with the shaft and or loft.



    I've found not to find an answer in easy answers - they don't exist.



    But c'est la vie. I think the comparo means nothing. I've been fit by a PGA Professional over several sessions - people that fit on the PGA Tour (lucky to know him) just finding the right loft/shaft combo in the G400 took 2 hrs. Find loft, find shaft, find center contact, find swingweight, find shaft length, find lie, find least amount of dispersion, etc.
    Posted:
    "My swing is so bad, I look like a caveman killing his lunch" - Lee Trevino

    Bag: Ping G400 Max/TPT Golf Series 17 ● Exotics EX10 Beta 4, 5 wd ● PXG 0317 4H/Tensei CK Pro Red 70 ● Mizuno 919F 5-GW/Accra i80 ● Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 56ES, 60SS ●Evnroll ER8
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • zripp3zripp3 Atlanta, GA 656WRX Points: 79Members Posts: 656 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #61
    [quote/]

    just curious what your average swing speed in that comparison? thanks

    [/quote]



    Didn't track swing speed, but I suppose you could back into it using the 'ol ballspeed/1.5 formula, which would put it around 97ish. I'm not normally much higher than 99-100 so that sounds about right for me.
    Posted:
3

Leave a Comment

Rich Text Editor. To edit a paragraph's style, hit tab to get to the paragraph menu. From there you will be able to pick one style. Nothing defaults to paragraph. An inline formatting menu will show up when you select text. Hit tab to get into that menu. Some elements, such as rich link embeds, images, loading indicators, and error messages may get inserted into the editor. You may navigate to these using the arrow keys inside of the editor and delete them with the delete or backspace key.