2019 LPGA Season Odds and Ends

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  • Argonne69Argonne69  23298WRX Points: 7,263Members Posts: 23,298 Titanium Tees
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    Well certainly strength is a big factor, as the men can get enough spin on the ball coming out of the rough to hold the greens. I believe the women are more willing to give up some yardage for more accuracy. Looking at the 2018 total driving stats, only 2 long hitters are in the top 10, Brooke and Sung Hyun. The best ball strikers give up a little distance for being in the fairway.

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  • StoochStooch  1213WRX Points: 878Handicap: 15Members Posts: 1,213 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @Argonne69 said:

    On -, @Stooch said:

    Ariya's "A" Game will destroy any player on the LPGA she's up against, Period end of story!

    I think any of the top players' A games will handily beat the competition. Look at Sei Young at Thornberry Creek last year. She won by a whopping nine shots! The reality is that the A game rarely shows up, or only peaks its head out for short bursts. Players rise to #1 by stringing together solid stretches of play that generally fade. As good as Ariya has been, she didn't hold the #1 spot for long. The competition is that tough.

    Well I think we would have to define what we mean by "A" game, cause there's no perfection in golf. And bless Sei Young's heart, she's my 2nd favorite golfer on the LPGA, but she's a horses for courses type, she's won the founders and in Green Bay both for lack of a better term "easy tracks" sure you gotta score and she's not afraid to go low and can go low. But you throw Sei Young on a track with a degree of difficulty she can rarely put those 4 good rounds together for a win. So maybe at the Founders or Thornberry Sei Young's "A" game can beat Ariya but on 75% of LPGA set-ups and the Majors Ariya best game would crush Sei Young IMO over the course of 4 rounds.

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  • Argonne69Argonne69  23298WRX Points: 7,263Members Posts: 23,298 Titanium Tees
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    I think you are selling Sei Young short. Ariya has won 10 times in 4+ years on tour. Sei Young has won 7 times in the same timeframe. She's also accumulated 40 top 10's. No, she's not at Ariya's level, but she certainly not a flash in the pan.

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  • WestTexWestTex  227WRX Points: 188Members Posts: 227 Fairways
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    I have to agree with the multiple factors concept. I cannot get behind the notion that driving distance alone gets you consistent wins. Does it really matter if you're hitting 160 or 140 to the green at that level? At that level, I'd say no. For us hacks, absolutely. Tee to green with a hot putter is my vote. Hitting it long only matters if you can hit the fairway consistently with that distance, I have to imagine a pro can hit 160 to the green from the fairway with as much consistency as 140 to the green, most of the time.

    But then I suck at this game so...there's that.

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  • StoochStooch  1213WRX Points: 878Handicap: 15Members Posts: 1,213 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @WestTex said:

    But then I suck at this game so...there's that.

    You sound like me, you know what to do on the course, it's just the execution that is lacking lol

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  • WestTexWestTex  227WRX Points: 188Members Posts: 227 Fairways
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    On -, @Stooch said:

    On -, @WestTex said:

    But then I suck at this game so...there's that.

    You sound like me, you know what to do on the course, it's just the execution that is lacking lol

    In my case I would extend that statement to cover "in life"...

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  • StoochStooch  1213WRX Points: 878Handicap: 15Members Posts: 1,213 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @WestTex said:

    On -, @Stooch said:

    On -, @WestTex said:

    But then I suck at this game so...there's that.

    You sound like me, you know what to do on the course, it's just the execution that is lacking lol

    In my case I would extend that statement to cover "in life"...

    Wow we really have a lot in common lol

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  • Enduro59Enduro59  155WRX Points: 138Members Posts: 155 Fairways
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    On -, @WestTex said:

    I have to agree with the multiple factors concept. I cannot get behind the notion that driving distance alone gets you consistent wins. Does it really matter if you're hitting 160 or 140 to the green at that level? At that level, I'd say no. For us hacks, absolutely. Tee to green with a hot putter is my vote. Hitting it long only matters if you can hit the fairway consistently with that distance, I have to imagine a pro can hit 160 to the green from the fairway with as much consistency as 140 to the green, most of the time.

    But then I suck at this game so...there's that.

    I think that it can matter even at the level these ladies play at.Sunday(and probably the other days too)the Kordas,Carlota and most of the other leaders that Foltz and Stupples mentioned were hitting 8or9 iron onto the green on 18 .Lydia hit 19degree hybrid into the deep greenside bunker.Only a better than stellar bunker save for a par kept her from losing a stroke at the last.I know it don't play out this way every time but the aforementioned scenario is like a 4 foot par putt.After a while any level player if they keep having them is going to miss enough of them to take them out of contention.In the final round the largest distance gap off the tee on #18 between Lydia and another contender was 70 yards!!!

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  • agolf1agolf1  1853WRX Points: 1,043Members Posts: 1,853 Platinum Tees
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    Multiple winners on tour in 2018 (usually what it takes to hold down the #1 spot at some point):
    Ariya - 15th in driving distance
    SHP - 6th in driving distance
    Brooke - 8th in driving distance
    Nasa - 42nd in driving distance

    Jin Young (3rd) and Lydia (7th) ranked very well in scoring but only won once each. As mentioned, winning is not necessarily and "average" but you need things to go right when it doesn't for others. It would be interesting to know if the longer players tend to have a higher variance in their scores (can't get in in the fairway or putt but when things go right they go low)?

    Also just looked at the ballstriking list that was posted in another discussion. I haven't run any real stats but nothing jumped out from the eye test.

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  • Argonne69Argonne69  23298WRX Points: 7,263Members Posts: 23,298 Titanium Tees
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    I really wish the LPGA had the stats, including scores, available for download in csv format. We could have a lot of fun playing with the numbers.

    My hunch is that the best players are extremely consistent. The players that average below par rarely shoot in the mid-70's. A bad day for them is 73 or 74. 'Almost machine-like. For example, Jin Young played 93 rounds last year with an average of 69.81. She had 29 rounds over par, but only 5 rounds of 75 or worse. She had 43 rounds below 70.

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  • StoochStooch  1213WRX Points: 878Handicap: 15Members Posts: 1,213 Platinum Tees
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    It would be interesting to know if the longer players tend to have a higher variance in their scores (can't get in in the fairway or putt but when things go right they go low)?

    I think the variance issue with long players is dependent on many variables, no real Black or White answers. I follow Brooke very closely with her stats each week and each round and it usually requires a couple things to be off for Brooke to have a bad or over par round. It has to be both a bad ball striking day and a bad putting day. If it's either, or that are off Brooke usually battles and gets under par, just ends up being not at the top of the leaderboard. The same is most likely true with all top tier pro's, they can manage a problem better than their less talented counterparts. The bad rounds happen when they have a couple glitches in their game during a round. During the event in Singapore Brooke had one of her worst Ball-Striking tournaments (every round was bad), 36/56 Fairways and 50/72 greens, the 2 rounds she had over 30 putts she shot 75 and 72, the 2 rounds she had under 30 putts she shot 71 and 67. Truth is with Brooke it really comes down to one thing on how hot she'll be during a round and that's how dialed in she is with her irons during the approach shot. Brooke can get the pulls not so much that she's missing greens it's usually she's 25 feet away from the hole and this exposes her true weakness. I always rip on Brooke for her putting and while we will never mistake her for Imbee on the greens she has really improved by my eye. Well she's improved within 20 feet, her lines are great and pace most days is good and she all over the hole most shots I've seen this year. But Brooke can really struggle some days with pace of putts over 25 feet and has way too many 3 putts at long distance. I don't stress too much as I have seen nice improvement in the putting within the scoring range which is where most of Brooke's shots end up, lag putting is something that can be fixed and improved upon. IMO if you look at long hitters like Brooke and SHP, they will never win tournaments cause of their putting on the good weeks, it may compliment their ball striking but what will get wins for them is the ball striking or more to the point them striping irons to within 8 feet hole after hole. The long driving just gives them better clubs to do that with. I will admit I don't track Jin Young but from what I saw on Sunday she's a great iron player also, she was all over the flag most shots I saw. Is Jin Young always like that? Lydia on the other hand hit lots of greens but on the back 9 was no where near the hole and 2 putting for pars. I think the Lydia of old in her hey-day would usually drain a couple of the longs ones.

    I wish we had a proximity to the hole stat, it would make dissecting this stuff easier, I can only go past the numbers with Brooke cause I'm so invested in her and pay close attention to all she does.

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  • Argonne69Argonne69  23298WRX Points: 7,263Members Posts: 23,298 Titanium Tees
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    Yea, we've said it for ages, having proximity to the hole and scrambling stats would be golden. Is a player a mediocre putter, or are they simply too far from the hole on their approaches to have a good chance for birdie? Without the data we can never be certain.

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  • StoochStooch  1213WRX Points: 878Handicap: 15Members Posts: 1,213 Platinum Tees
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    Nothing to do with "odds and Ends" but is anyone else having a problem with the like buttons using Chrome? I hit like and it takes me to another page and says I have to enable javascript and when I check my browser my javascript is enable for all sites. I assume it's part of the changes going on, I'm just wondering if anyone else is having the issue?

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  • Argonne69Argonne69  23298WRX Points: 7,263Members Posts: 23,298 Titanium Tees
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    I'm having the same problem with Internet Explorer. Chrome is working fine. Do you have Javascript enabled for the site? if you see an icon (<>) with a small red x on it in the address bar (right side), you'll need to click on it and enable JS. I still haven't been able to log on to the site with Firefox. It keeps reporting that my username and/or password are incorrect, even though I can log on using the other two browsers.

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  • Argonne69Argonne69  23298WRX Points: 7,263Members Posts: 23,298 Titanium Tees
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    I was checking my DVR to verify that the ANA would record next week, and the rounds were not scheduled because the TV listing did not include "LPGA". Double check your scheduled programs. There are split sessions on Thursday and Friday.

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  • TasalsTasals  371WRX Points: 141Handicap: 3.7Members Posts: 371 Greens
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    On -, @agolf1 said:

    Any idea what has been the difference in the two tours? The men can hack it out of the rough and still get in on the green (even a 500 yard Par 4 is a 300 yard drive somewhere and a 6-iron with a half decent lie; i.e. enough loft if you have lots of speed) whereas the ladies can't?

    I've also pondered the difference in driving accuracy on the two tours. In one sense, 5% offline is more yards offline at 300 yards than 250 yards. However, even pre-Tiger I don't think the men's driving accuracy was anywhere near what the LPGA players are at.

    No doubt that on any week anybody can win. Inbee was #1 for a bit last year and some of the others listed had pretty good years, but they generally seemed like a bit outside of the top tier of players last year.

    Men have significantly more muscle mass and strength pound for pound, different muscle composition. Men also have stronger and more dense bones. You cant really compete with testosterone for sports performance.

    The ladies cant overpower hazards like the men can. Slower club head speeds result in lower launches and less spin. Which gets compounded in the rough. The slower club head speed means less distance so they are dealing with less loft from the rough.
    It just becomes a compounding effect. Its why driving accuracy is such a premium on the LPGA compared to the PGA. The ladies dont gain as many strokes by being an extra 20 yards closer to the hole but in the rough compared to the fairway.
    This is why only the really horrible US Open at like Merrion rough where the ball completely disappears and guys are getting hurt going for full shots negates the distance advantage. Add extra firm greens on top of that and driving accuracy becomes a premium again so they can stop the ball.

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  • CaymanSCaymanS  93WRX Points: 58Handicap: 16Members Posts: 93 Fairways
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    On -, @Tasals said:

    On -, @agolf1 said:

    Any idea what has been the difference in the two tours? The men can hack it out of the rough and still get in on the green (even a 500 yard Par 4 is a 300 yard drive somewhere and a 6-iron with a half decent lie; i.e. enough loft if you have lots of speed) whereas the ladies can't?

    I've also pondered the difference in driving accuracy on the two tours. In one sense, 5% offline is more yards offline at 300 yards than 250 yards. However, even pre-Tiger I don't think the men's driving accuracy was anywhere near what the LPGA players are at.

    No doubt that on any week anybody can win. Inbee was #1 for a bit last year and some of the others listed had pretty good years, but they generally seemed like a bit outside of the top tier of players last year.

    Men have significantly more muscle mass and strength pound for pound, different muscle composition. Men also have stronger and more dense bones. You cant really compete with testosterone for sports performance.

    The ladies cant overpower hazards like the men can. Slower club head speeds result in lower launches and less spin. Which gets compounded in the rough. The slower club head speed means less distance so they are dealing with less loft from the rough.
    It just becomes a compounding effect. Its why driving accuracy is such a premium on the LPGA compared to the PGA. The ladies dont gain as many strokes by being an extra 20 yards closer to the hole but in the rough compared to the fairway.
    This is why only the really horrible US Open at like Merrion rough where the ball completely disappears and guys are getting hurt going for full shots negates the distance advantage. Add extra firm greens on top of that and driving accuracy becomes a premium again so they can stop the ball.

    I just volunteered at the Kia Classic. The rough was less than half the height vs Torrey this year. It would have been fair for me to handle (as a 66 yr old 15 hcp). Of course these two courses may not be typical, just a sample size of one. And I agree the LPGA game seems to be more about finesse. I was on the 2nd hole and witnessed more than 175 drives. There were only 2 balls that hooked, one lost and the other playable, not one slice!, and just handful that found the fairway bunker. It was an astonishing display of driving skill. Lexi was as long as most and she used a fairway wood. I did not know that to be strength of hers. The slope at Aviara is the same as Torrey South at comparable distances. The fact the winner was 18 under on a tough course that they played at 6,650 yards is testament to their skill.

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  • Argonne69Argonne69  23298WRX Points: 7,263Members Posts: 23,298 Titanium Tees
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    As 18majors noted in the ANA thread, Jin Young became the new World #1 today.

    Other big moves include Mi Hyang, moving up 23 spots to #31, Hyo Joo moving up 7 spots to #32, In Kyung moving up 6 spots to #19, Lexi moving up 3 spots to #6, and Danielle moving up 3 spots to #13.

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  • 18majors18majors  1889WRX Points: 1,310Members Posts: 1,889 Platinum Tees
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    Niall Horan of One Direction fame, is good for women's golf.
    " Horan, the One Direction superstar-turned-solo artist, is the center of attention on kids’ day. His almost 40 million Twitter followers, and over 20 million on Instagram, dwarf any golf stars, including Tiger Woods.
    “It would be hypocritical of me if I wasn’t here, you know? When we talk about growing the game. It felt historic being here for the Women’s Amateur.”

    https://golfweek.com/2019/04/08/at-augusta-golf-nut-niall-horan-is-in-his-element-trying-to-help-grow-the-game/

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  • 4waymiss4waymiss  1019WRX Points: 141Members Posts: 1,019 Platinum Tees
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    The Jutanugarn sisters caddied for Barnrat and hit it closer. I read they both ended up making birdies. Too bad I can't find the footage of their putts. Lydia Ko caddied for Kevin Na couple years ago , same hole hit it to tap in range, can't find video either.

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  • Argonne69Argonne69  23298WRX Points: 7,263Members Posts: 23,298 Titanium Tees
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    Watching the Masters today, I was surprised to discover that Ariya is the older of the two Jutanugarn sisters. Well, according to Ian Baker Finch. Oy veh.

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  • 18majors18majors  1889WRX Points: 1,310Members Posts: 1,889 Platinum Tees
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    This is a good article about Korean women's golfer; it wrote something I didn't know before.
    "Lee6, who chose to embrace the numeral and wear it as a badge of honor, even though it originated because there were five other players with the same name on the Korean LPGA Tour, is the daughter of a former truck driver who was paralyzed in a highway accident when “Six,” as she likes to be called, was 4 years old. She didn’t play golf seriously until she was 16. “I’ve always helped my father,” Six said. “When I realized that I was good enough to be a professional, my entire goal was to win tournaments to help my family. I want to do whatever I can for them. I want to make them proud.” It doesn’t get much better than that."

    https://womensgolf.com/south-koreans

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  • Raving ShankerRaving Shanker  406WRX Points: 218Handicap: 47Members Posts: 406 Greens
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    That's a great story. She projects the image of being a real princess - quite the opposite. I was watching her on the range at the Aus Open and she literally grabs your gaze turns your head her way. The swing is so gorgeous it is like she is shining. My first words in her presence were "Who...is...that?". I'd heard of Lucky 6, but wow, what a commanding presence. I hope she backs it up with results, especially after reading this.

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  • 18majors18majors  1889WRX Points: 1,310Members Posts: 1,889 Platinum Tees
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    In Gee Chun 2.0
    It looks like In Gee Chun isn't going to give up her throne without a fight.
    In Gee was the undisputed center of attention in South Korea in 2015-16 and she reached her zenith after she won Evian Championship in September 2016. However, her popularity has since been eclipsed by Sung Hyun Park and challenged by Jin Young Ko and Lucky 6.
    She's started to intensify her fitness training and built up her strength in order to recapture her presence; a comment recently on her Instagram:
    "Looks like you have increased your club head speed by quite a bit, yet your swing is still smooth. Very impressive. I still stand firm on that you have the best swing on tour. Your hard work will pay off. "

    https://instagram.com/p/BwQ915pF2YJ/

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  • agolf1agolf1  1853WRX Points: 1,043Members Posts: 1,853 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @18majors said:

    In Gee Chun 2.0
    It looks like In Gee Chun isn't going to give up her throne without a fight.
    In Gee was the undisputed center of attention in South Korea in 2015-16 and she reached her zenith after she won Evian Championship in September 2016. However, her popularity has since been eclipsed by Sung Hyun Park and challenged by Jin Young Ko and Lucky 6.
    She's started to intensify her fitness training and built up her strength in order to recapture her presence; a comment recently on her Instagram:
    "Looks like you have increased your club head speed by quite a bit, yet your swing is still smooth. Very impressive. I still stand firm on that you have the best swing on tour. Your hard work will pay off. "

    https://instagram.com/p/BwQ915pF2YJ/

    It would be great if she can regain top form. It still confounds me as to what's going on with her distance off the tee. Last week, I saw a video of the 2016 ANA Final Round highlights with Lydia's birdie on 18. It is amazing how much fitter each of these two ladies are today. I would have guessed that through working out they also increased strength and flexibility. Why they aren't hitting it 255-260 is quite confusing (Lydia may end up closer to here this year).

    Regardless, if she is (more) mentally engaged that can't be a bad thing. Obviously, there is some basic skill level required to compete at the (top) pro level (i.e. not everyone can be Tiger Woods just because they want to), but the fluctuations from the very good to the very very good are probably as much about who wants it more than any differences in natural/physical ability.

    Unfortunately, the casual fans rarely or never really know what is going on inside of these players' heads, and how that is impacting the outcomes we see. Maybe her back is still not 100% or she changed her swing to compensate (harder to fix if true). Or, finishing 2nd so much and getting blasted for not winning made golf no fun (thought the UL Crown and KEB Hana would have fixed this). Or, having everyone cater to you and getting some cash in the bank made her relatively lazy (i.e. getting passed in the Korean pecking order by the next star was needed). Who knows.

    But I think we'd all agree she has the natural talent to be at least near the top, so for whatever reason I'd just hope she's more motivated/positive about the near-term. The competition these days is fierce, but it would be great to see her perform better than the 2017-2018 seasons.

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  • 18majors18majors  1889WRX Points: 1,310Members Posts: 1,889 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @agolf1 said:

    On -, @18majors said:

    In Gee Chun 2.0
    It looks like In Gee Chun isn't going to give up her throne without a fight.
    In Gee was the undisputed center of attention in South Korea in 2015-16 and she reached her zenith after she won Evian Championship in September 2016. However, her popularity has since been eclipsed by Sung Hyun Park and challenged by Jin Young Ko and Lucky 6.
    She's started to intensify her fitness training and built up her strength in order to recapture her presence; a comment recently on her Instagram:
    "Looks like you have increased your club head speed by quite a bit, yet your swing is still smooth. Very impressive. I still stand firm on that you have the best swing on tour. Your hard work will pay off. "

    https://instagram.com/p/BwQ915pF2YJ/

    It would be great if she can regain top form. It still confounds me as to what's going on with her distance off the tee. Last week, I saw a video of the 2016 ANA Final Round highlights with Lydia's birdie on 18. It is amazing how much fitter each of these two ladies are today. I would have guessed that through working out they also increased strength and flexibility. Why they aren't hitting it 255-260 is quite confusing (Lydia may end up closer to here this year).

    Regardless, if she is (more) mentally engaged that can't be a bad thing. Obviously, there is some basic skill level required to compete at the (top) pro level (i.e. not everyone can be Tiger Woods just because they want to), but the fluctuations from the very good to the very very good are probably as much about who wants it more than any differences in natural/physical ability.

    Unfortunately, the casual fans rarely or never really know what is going on inside of these players' heads, and how that is impacting the outcomes we see. Maybe her back is still not 100% or she changed her swing to compensate (harder to fix if true). Or, finishing 2nd so much and getting blasted for not winning made golf no fun (thought the UL Crown and KEB Hana would have fixed this). Or, having everyone cater to you and getting some cash in the bank made her relatively lazy (i.e. getting passed in the Korean pecking order by the next star was needed). Who knows.

    But I think we'd all agree she has the natural talent to be at least near the top, so for whatever reason I'd just hope she's more motivated/positive about the near-term. The competition these days is fierce, but it would be great to see her perform better than the 2017-2018 seasons.

    Since 2015, In Gee is the player I spent the most time following.
    If we use Instagram as a gauge; her follower shot up to 32,000 at the end of 2016, 59,000 2017 and 77,000 2018. She's been stagnant this year at 78,000.
    There's no question she took her eyes away from golf and competition. Her comments after her 2018 KEB win was all about social media and her revenge, she forgot the tournament was gifted to her by Charley Hull, Ariya Jutanugarn and Danielle Kang.
    The proof of pudding is in eating; she needs to earn a top 10 either this week or next.

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  • Raving ShankerRaving Shanker  406WRX Points: 218Handicap: 47Members Posts: 406 Greens
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    On -, @18majors said:

    In Gee Chun 2.0
    It looks like In Gee Chun isn't going to give up her throne without a fight.
    In Gee was the undisputed center of attention in South Korea in 2015-16 and she reached her zenith after she won Evian Championship in September 2016. However, her popularity has since been eclipsed by Sung Hyun Park and challenged by Jin Young Ko and Lucky 6.
    She's started to intensify her fitness training and built up her strength in order to recapture her presence; a comment recently on her Instagram:
    "Looks like you have increased your club head speed by quite a bit, yet your swing is still smooth. Very impressive. I still stand firm on that you have the best swing on tour. Your hard work will pay off. "

    https://instagram.com/p/BwQ915pF2YJ/

    My first reaction is "WOW". After I calm down a little I hope she is not going to swing too quick. She has her own tempo, and that will be difficult to change. But as agolf1 said, she seems very engaged, and that's got to be a good thing.

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  • StoochStooch  1213WRX Points: 878Handicap: 15Members Posts: 1,213 Platinum Tees
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    Brooke Henderson signs a 5 year endorsement extension with CP, not particularly earth shattering but Brittany was signed to an endorsement deal with CP also. Great news for Brittany but I couldn't help think to myself that Brittany probably now makes more in endorsements than half the LPGA field lol. That's the benefit of being Brooke's caddy in Canada, there's plenty of money to be made by you to.

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  • Argonne69Argonne69  23298WRX Points: 7,263Members Posts: 23,298 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Stooch said:

    Brooke Henderson signs a 5 year endorsement extension with CP, not particularly earth shattering but Brittany was signed to an endorsement deal with CP also. Great news for Brittany but I couldn't help think to myself that Brittany probably now makes more in endorsements than half the LPGA field lol. That's the benefit of being Brooke's caddy in Canada, there's plenty of money to be made by you to.

    Lol. I need to wake up. My first thought was, "Wow, Brittany Lincicome signed with CP? That's a shock".

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  • Argonne69Argonne69  23298WRX Points: 7,263Members Posts: 23,298 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Apr 16, 2019 #61

    The 2025 U.S. Women's Open has been awarded to Erin Hills. 'Love the course.

    Posted:
27

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