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Another Scotland Trip Thread

I am planning a trip to Scotland for 2020. I will be going with my dad and 6 other members from my club. My dad has been once and two other members have been twice so I did get some input from them but also wanted some input from others on the forum who have made the trek. Most of the Members ages range from 55-65 so that is part of the reason for my questions. Let me preface this by saying we are planning on using a "golf tour company" and we will have a driver for the time we are there. I have reached out to Carr and Perrygolf, if anyone has any other suggestions let me know. So my initial thought is as follows:
  • Leaving the eastern part of the US on a Friday and arriving in Glasgow on Sat
  • Sat: Arrive, No golf to give ourselves a chance to acclimate to the time change and the all night flying. Hopefully at least make a visit to prestwick to see it (stay at or around troon)
  • Sunday: Golf at Turnberry
  • Monday: Golf at Troon (drive to St Andrews area and stay at or around St Andrews)
  • Tuesday: Kingsbarn
  • Wednesday: Carnoustie
  • Thursday: Old Course (drive to Murifield and stay at or around Murifield)
  • Friday: Play Murifield
  • Sat: Travel back to the US via Edinburgh




My two questions: with the age of the group, and this being the only time 4 of the 8 will probably go, should we take a day off in the middle to enjoy the country. If we do that, what course do you recommend dropping? Also is there another true links course around St Andrews that you think we should add in place of the rota courses or Kingsbarn. Any other thoughts or comments on my initial plan would be appreciated.



One last thing, does the individual planning the trip get anything comped? I know some trips that I have planned here for groups have that perk.



Thanks in advance!
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Comments

  • jvincentjvincent Members Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What time of year are you going?



    IMHO I would not take a golf day off. You'll see the countryside driving around. Also, from your list it doesn't look like you have 36 holes planned for any of the days. If that stays true you'll have plenty of time to wander around the towns.



    As far as other courses in the area, I would check out Crail. I've played it, it's a hoot. You want the Balcomie Links, not the modern one. I have also heard good things about Elie. For me, I wouldn't drop one of the other courses but add Crail as a second 18 in the afternoon.

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  • WalterWalter Belgian Golfer Members Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jvincent wrote:


    What time of year are you going?



    IMHO I would not take a golf day off. You'll see the countryside driving around. Also, from your list it doesn't look like you have 36 holes planned for any of the days. If that stays true you'll have plenty of time to wander around the towns.



    As far as other courses in the area, I would check out Crail. I've played it, it's a hoot. You want the Balcomie Links, not the modern one. I have also heard good things about Elie. For me, I wouldn't drop one of the other courses but add Crail as a second 18 in the afternoon.


    Adding Crail Balcomie as a 2nd 18 is a great idea!! I played it an have great memories of that beautiful place with great people.
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  • WalterWalter Belgian Golfer Members Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would also take/plan your time to stroll around St Andrews ... take the pictures .. see the pubs and atmosphere
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  • Luke.SuttonLuke.Sutton ClubWRX Posts: 130 ClubWRX
    edited Feb 6, 2019 7:41pm #5
    I’d skip Kingbarns for sure. Some people love it because it’s an easy Americanish (is that a word?) links and makes you feel good about your game.



    I’d try to play the Old Course twice instead (always can go to Kingbarns as a backup if you can’t get on TOC - or play the New which I like more than Kingbarns).



    I’d also do what I could to play North Berwick... it’s stellar. It’s pretty close to Muirfield so you could potentially get 36 that day or hit in on your way in or out of Edinburgh.
  • tideridertiderider Members Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Feb 6, 2019 8:10pm #6
    according to your schedule, you will play 6 straight days ... even if only 18 a day, that's 6 straight days of walking ... might want to do an honest assessment of your ability to do that over 6 straight days ... very likely no one in your group has done that ... guys get pumped up about being over there and think they can handle it, but walking 18 every day is a WORLD of difference from riding 18 every day or walking a few days a week ... and you are in your late 50s ... if this is the only time they'll be over there, a day off in the middle is a good idea, imo ... kingsbarn would be ideal, and honestly, it's probably a bit over-rated (i have not played it) ... so that would be the day ... and playing 36 on the last day isn't a bad idea, esp if it's berwick ... that said, if you're in decent shape and feel it won't be a big deal, then don't take it off ... you can get plenty of "flavor" by eating out at night with the locals ... it's a golf trip ... play golf ... their cities got the same stuff our cities got ... only thing i'd make sure you do is lay a tee or two at old tom's grave ... never a bad idea to appease the golf gods ...
  • duffer987duffer987 I'm old enough to remember a time when Ignore and Feedback worked. Canadian in CaliforniaMembers Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    We all have our pet courses and individual golfing likes, but if this is a trip that won't regularly be repeated, I think you're doing a disservice to the gang by not playing Prestwick or North Berwick (personally both) while you are in the neighbourhood.

    We had a diverse group of 6 there a few years ago now and everyone picked one of those two as the most fun round of the trip.
  • alfridayalfriday Members Posts: 493 ✭✭✭✭
    I would schedule a course for the day you arrive. I have done three trips to Ireland and three to Scotland. We played on the day we arrived on each trip. Getting out and walking helps, rather than hinders, acclimating to the time change. If there are any problems with your flights, the golf company should be able to help and work with the course to adjust the tee time. (On one trip we arrived three hours late, but the course accommodated us.) It would be easy to add Prestwick to your existing schedule.



    My last trip was when I was 59. The others were 58, 60 and 64. No one in our group had trouble playing 18 a day. We played 36 on two days--playing our own ball for the first 18 and a two v. two best ball for the second 18. We all were in reasonable shape, but none of us are marathoners.



    It should be a great trip. Have fun!
  • hennigahenniga Members Posts: 36 ✭✭
    alfriday wrote:


    I would schedule a course for the day you arrive. I have done three trips to Ireland and three to Scotland. We played on the day we arrived on each trip. Getting out and walking helps, rather than hinders, acclimating to the time change. If there are any problems with your flights, the golf company should be able to help and work with the course to adjust the tee time. (On one trip we arrived three hours late, but the course accommodated us.) It would be easy to add Prestwick to your existing schedule.



    My last trip was when I was 59. The others were 58, 60 and 64. No one in our group had trouble playing 18 a day. We played 36 on two days--playing our own ball for the first 18 and a two v. two best ball for the second 18. We all were in reasonable shape, but none of us are marathoners.



    It should be a great trip. Have fun!




    I completely agree with this. I assume you will get in pretty early in the morning, so you will have all day to kill. You're going to be completely exhausted because of the jet lag, lack of sleep and excitement of the trip. You have to battle thru the first day. Play golf, have an early dinner and go to bed at a reasonable hour. You'll sleep great and wake up ready to go.
  • ClambakeClambake Members Posts: 675 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Feb 7, 2019 1:32pm #10
    duffer987 wrote:


    We all have our pet courses and individual golfing likes, but if this is a trip that won't regularly be repeated, I think you're doing a disservice to the gang by not playing Prestwick or North Berwick (personally both) while you are in the neighbourhood.

    We had a diverse group of 6 there a few years ago now and everyone picked one of those two as the most fun round of the trip.




    I agree completely, especially Prestwick. Prestwick and Royal Dornoch were the two most memorable courses for me, and Prestwick is just simply a lot of fun. Quirky but fair, and it just drips with history. OP, you mention you'd like to visit it just to see it on your first day, but there really isn't anything to see unless you actually go out and play the course. Looking at the 1st hole from the parking lot will only make you mad you didn't add it to your schedule. I also loved North Berwick a lot and it has a lot of memorable holes, but Prestwick will be some of the most fun you ever have on a golf course.



    Although it adds to the expense, with the age range of the group I'd recommend taking a caddie for every course. It really makes the rounds less tiring and makes it easier to play every day. Since you're planning on using a tour company for everything, I'm assuming you're a bit less price sensitive, so the caddie cost is reasonable. Besides, the caddies are a hoot and can fill you with stories as you play these historic courses.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • DandyDonDandyDon Members Posts: 208 ✭✭✭
    DO NOT SKIP KINGSBARNS.......Yes, I know it's Americanized, but it is gorgeous, has an amazing amount of fun holes, and gorgeous scenery.... I played in Scotland in June and here is how I rated the courses: 1) Kingsbarns 2) Turnberry Alisal Course 3) Muirfield (definitely the hardest) 4) Old Course 5) Royal Troon 6) Jubilee



    The Old Course was a great experience, Holes 1, 17 and 18 have an unbelievable atmosphere, but if it wasn't for the history there were probably only a handful of memorable holes from 2-16 (I know heresy, but its true). Turnberry and Muirfield were very close, but I give the edge to Turnberry even though the back 9 at Muirfield was fantastic.
  • ChancemanChanceman Members Posts: 627 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Carnoustie is to Kingsbarns as Oakmont is to Erin Hills. You decide.
  • robleighlefty89robleighlefty89 Members Posts: 126 ✭✭✭
    alfriday wrote:


    I would schedule a course for the day you arrive. I have done three trips to Ireland and three to Scotland. We played on the day we arrived on each trip. Getting out and walking helps, rather than hinders, acclimating to the time change. If there are any problems with your flights, the golf company should be able to help and work with the course to adjust the tee time. (On one trip we arrived three hours late, but the course accommodated us.) It would be easy to add Prestwick to your existing schedule.



    My last trip was when I was 59. The others were 58, 60 and 64. No one in our group had trouble playing 18 a day. We played 36 on two days--playing our own ball for the first 18 and a two v. two best ball for the second 18. We all were in reasonable shape, but none of us are marathoners.



    It should be a great trip. Have fun!




    THIS!! ^^



    Definitely play the day you land - even if you're exhausted by the end of it you'll sleep better that night and be ready for the next day.



    Prestwick is a great way to start your trip; lunch in the Clubhouse taking in some of the history surrounding you then playing the home of the Open. The course isn't demanding to walk and you'll have missed out on a great day if you don't do it.
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  • davep043davep043 Members Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    True links around St Andrews:

    New Course

    Jubilee Course (really nice dunes on a few holes)

    Elie

    Crail Balcommie

    Lundin Links



    I agree with many, playing on your day of arrival is a great way to get yourselves onto local time, I feel like it minimizes jet lag issues. Prestwick, as others have said, is dripping with history, its worth a play. If you want something easier to walk, and less demanding golf-wise, think about Glasgow Gailes. Its just inland from Western Gailes (which I loved), but much less severe. Dundonald is in the same neighborhood. Note, if you do decide to play, you'll be completely knackered by the time you're done. Maybe by the 12th hole, even, but you'll have to keep going.



    North Berwick is brilliant, as others have said. If you dropped Kingsbarns, you could stay two nights around Gullane (where Muirfield is) or North Berwick and play both of those. Or make your trip longer.
  • duffer987duffer987 I'm old enough to remember a time when Ignore and Feedback worked. Canadian in CaliforniaMembers Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    DandyDon wrote:


    DO NOT SKIP KINGSBARNS.......Yes, I know it's Americanized, but it is gorgeous, has an amazing amount of fun holes, and gorgeous scenery.... I played in Scotland in June and here is how I rated the courses: 1) Kingsbarns 2) Turnberry Alisal Course 3) Muirfield (definitely the hardest) 4) Old Course 5) Royal Troon 6) Jubilee



    The Old Course was a great experience, Holes 1, 17 and 18 have an unbelievable atmosphere, but if it wasn't for the history there were probably only a handful of memorable holes from 2-16 (I know heresy, but its true). Turnberry and Muirfield were very close, but I give the edge to Turnberry even though the back 9 at Muirfield was fantastic.


    No one would doubt you are telling the truth image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> but if you cannot remember 11-14 on the The Old Course (or maybe those are the 'handful'?)... wow, that's a better four hole stretch of golf than anything on offer at Kingsbarns, 11-18 doubly so.
  • brianolson32brianolson32 Members Posts: 65 ✭✭
    Being that it will be the only trip to Scotland for half of your group I would recommend lengthening the trip by 3 days if possible. I know this may not be feasible due to either time or money constraints but it would maximize the experience for those guys who are on a bucket list trip. I would echo other's sentiments to add Prestwick on the first leg of your trip, then keep the St. Andrews area courses as you currently have them (Kingsbarns gets criticized I think mainly because its a newer course but it's very very good and worthy of its top 100 world ranking), and then add two more days at the end to play North Berwick and Gullane along with Muirfield. Even if you can't make that happen I think you have a great trip outlined already, you will love it. St Andrews is a cool place even without the golf. Good luck with the rest of your trip planning process.
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  • TrueBlue4LyfeTrueBlue4Lyfe Members Posts: 40 ✭✭
    edited Feb 7, 2019 7:20pm #17
    I am making the trip this summer and did a LOT of research on which courses to play. Including on GolfcourseAtlas, Top100golfcourses, and here.



    When reading other peoples' opinions about which courses to play and not play, try to get a sense of their general feeling about golf courses/traveling and see if it matches yours before heeding their advice. Best example is Kingsbarns. It seems that most negative reviews of it come from people that demand history and atmosphere at their UK courses, and don't like that a new course was built by an American developer that cost $400 to play. And these negative reviews can be VERY strong. And often times they'll say they don't care about history and all that but that may or may not be true.



    Since we are playing 6 other courses, all of which are very old (I guess except Turnberry), and I'm not a well traveled golfer that's played courses of similar quality to Kingsbarns, this didn't really bother me. But if you've been to Bandon, Streamsong, etc. and are going to Scotland to play old links golf courses, then maybe listen to their advice.



    Also some will tell you to play several “hidden gems” instead of all top ranked courses. That’s easy to say for people that have already played all the top courses, which they usually have. We are going to get 1 or 2 in as second rounds, which I think provides a nice balance for a first trip.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • duffer987duffer987 I'm old enough to remember a time when Ignore and Feedback worked. Canadian in CaliforniaMembers Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Feb 7, 2019 8:04pm #18
    ^TBF, the OP pondered which round to drop if you were going to and even offered up KB, and folks are largely just agreeing with that. Based on the following courses, and it being a potential once or twice in a lifetime trip for some, would you really pick one of the others?

    Turnberry | Troon | Carnoustie | TOC | Muirfield | Kingsbarns



    I agree - and have mentioned before in other threads - with your sentiments about 2nd/3rd tier suggestions from folks who have made a number of trips. I wouldn't punt KB for one, all things being equal.

    If you are 55 and might not be back again - or for 5+ years - then by all means hit all the big boys. The more regional, less marquee tracks can likely be enjoyed later into one's golfing life, than the likes of Carnoustie or Muirfield.



    Of course all that said, I am going to reiterate: Prestwick and/or North Berwick in addition to or in place of Kingsbarns. And if someone wants a Saturday round, they may need to pick a 'less' regarded course, like one of the Gailes or Dundonald which can get them out that day image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • ClambakeClambake Members Posts: 675 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OP, in case you were considering adding Prestwick on your arrival day, it won't work since your first day is Saturday. They only do a small amount of times on Sundays for weekend play; no Saturday times available for visitors.
  • scott_Donaldscott_Donald Aberdeen, Scotland & HoustonMembers Posts: 2,502 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    is price a factor?



    I am paying 325 for Turnberry in September but would not pay 280 or whatever it is for Kingsbarns.



    Love these threads and hearing everyones opinions.
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  • az2auaz2au Members Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I have played every course mentioned here, most of them several times so I'll offer an opinion. Kingsbarns is a very good golf course (except 18, terrible finishing hole IMO) but not in the same league for me the traditional links courses. It is more in line with Castle (better views at Castle, Kingsbarns is a much better course) than the others.



    That said, I get why people don't love Old the first time they play it. I didn't. I mean, I thought it was cool and all but it just didn't blow me away. Having played it more than 10 times over the course of the last 15 years (never more than twice on any visit) I have a completely different opinion now. Once you see the genius of how the design works in any conditions and the trouble you can get into if you aren't paying attention it really shines. As for experience, I'm not sure there's a better walk down 1 or up 18 in the world. Anybody who loves golf needs to do that even if you don't love the course the first time.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Open Championship! IowaClubWRX Posts: 18,389 ClubWRX
    willywads wrote:


    I am planning a trip to Scotland for 2020. I will be going with my dad and 6 other members from my club. My dad has been once and two other members have been twice so I did get some input from them but also wanted some input from others on the forum who have made the trek. Most of the Members ages range from 55-65 so that is part of the reason for my questions. Let me preface this by saying we are planning on using a "golf tour company" and we will have a driver for the time we are there. I have reached out to Carr and Perrygolf, if anyone has any other suggestions let me know. So my initial thought is as follows:
    • Leaving the eastern part of the US on a Friday and arriving in Glasgow on Sat
    • Sat: Arrive, No golf to give ourselves a chance to acclimate to the time change and the all night flying. Hopefully at least make a visit to prestwick to see it (stay at or around troon)
    • Sunday: Golf at Turnberry
    • Monday: Golf at Troon (drive to St Andrews area and stay at or around St Andrews)
    • Tuesday: Kingsbarn
    • Wednesday: Carnoustie
    • Thursday: Old Course (drive to Murifield and stay at or around Murifield)
    • Friday: Play Murifield
    • Sat: Travel back to the US via Edinburgh


    My two questions: with the age of the group, and this being the only time 4 of the 8 will probably go, should we take a day off in the middle to enjoy the country. If we do that, what course do you recommend dropping? Also is there another true links course around St Andrews that you think we should add in place of the rota courses or Kingsbarn. Any other thoughts or comments on my initial plan would be appreciated.



    One last thing, does the individual planning the trip get anything comped? I know some trips that I have planned here for groups have that perk.



    Thanks in advance!




    You are using a tour company but concerned whether the other guys are comping you for something? LOL.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Open Championship! IowaClubWRX Posts: 18,389 ClubWRX
    Loved The Old Course the first time and so far only time I played it, everything about it.
  • CallWhiteyCallWhitey Members Posts: 30 ✭✭
    To the OP: don’t worry about replacing any of your courses. You’ve got such a stellar lineup that you are going to love it no matter what. There are so many awesome courses you could play, but you simply don’t have time for all of them. You will be plenty fulfilled with those that you do get to play, not feel slighted for those you don’t play. Practice up on your bump and run shots!
  • davep043davep043 Members Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    CallWhitey wrote:


    To the OP: don't worry about replacing any of your courses. You've got such a stellar lineup that you are going to love it no matter what. There are so many awesome courses you could play, but you simply don't have time for all of them. You will be plenty fulfilled with those that you do get to play, not feel slighted for those you don't play. Practice up on your bump and run shots!


    This is the best advice yet. We all have our preferences, but there's not a single BAD choice on the OPs list. similarly, any of the changes mentioned would be great too. The only way you can go wrong is to stay at home. OK, not the only way. The other "wrong" way would be to plan to stay in 6 different places over 8 days, and spend all of your non-golf time on the bus instead of in the pubs. THAT would be seriously wrong.
  • adambommb29adambommb29 Members Posts: 201 ✭✭✭
    I have planned a trip to Scotland the last three years and will be heading back again this spring/summer. I originally reached out to a handful of tour companies and based on some recommendations on this site, we ended up settling on Morton Golf Holiday. Peter and Donald have been really accommodating and responsive to all of our questions. We know that we could book everything cheaper if we did it ourselves, but going through Morton really saves on a lot of the headaches. We also have a driver while we are there and it has been the same guy, Jim, every year. Awesome guy! I don't know how the other companies do comps but Morton usually gets me something small in the way of memento each year. I don't expect anything more.



    Your schedule seems awesome! I agree with a lot of other posters that it would be fine to golf the first day you arrive. We always play on the first day. I also agree that it helps a bit with the jet-lag. You will find that you sleep so well that first evening there. My group also usually plays 36 most days, but that all depends on what you guys are up for. If a couple of you want to get out and play an additional 18 after the conclusion of your first round, there will be chances for it. Another thing to consider is the walking aspect. Me and my buddies always walk so it wasn't a big deal. I can imagine that there is a bit of shock to most golfers that ride all the time at home, and then find out there is no options to take carts. Caddies can alleviate some of the strain and can add to the experience.



    My group loves Kingsbarns. I'm a little shocked when people say they don't. We think of it as the "Pebble Beach of Scotland." You'll have breathtaking views of the water from every hole. It's fun. If money isn't a hindrance, I would absolutely recommend playing there.



    One issue that you'll find when trying to book your courses is that Muirfield is a tough booking. That is one of the the most exclusive courses over there and it's awesome that they are open to the public for play, but I'm pretty sure it's just on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Often you have to try to book that course before the Old Course and that might throw a bit of ****-wrench in your plan. Since you might be flying out of Edinburgh, a great place to finish up, if you can't work in Muirfield, is North Berwick West Links. The back nine is absolutely unforgettable. I also think it's cool that so many jaded professional players go out of there way to play there when they are in the area. There are so many model holes that are used throughout the world that were first designed on that course. For fun you should look up biarritz greens, which started there, or the original Redan hole. You won't be disappointed if you play there.



    You asked about taking a day off in the middle. That's up to you guys. A day off for my group is only playing 18 instead of 36. I think you have plenty of time to walk around the towns after you finish your rounds. The Scottish people are so nice and love hearing what you think of their courses. You might find that all you guys want to do is hang out after the rounds and drink some pints or sip on some whiskey. You are going to love it!
  • imafishermnimafishermn Members Posts: 40 ✭✭
    edited Feb 8, 2019 3:34pm #27
    First, let me start that I've only been to Scotland once and only played the Old Course on your list. I think your itinerary is exactly what almost any American golfer would put together for a 7/8 day trip to Scotland. One thing I would highly recommend is reading Tom Coyne's "A Course Called Scotland" where he plays every links course over there in less than 2 months; 111 courses! It is a great read and will give you some insight to not only the courses you have planned, but also all of the others recommended here and more. He has his own interesting "scale" of how he ranks the courses - instead of a scale from 1-10, he simply uses this as a metric: "if you told me I could come back and play this course tomorrow, how willing would I be to change a flight and return?" He calls it the "flight factor". Maybe you'll be intrigued enough to decide to visit one of his "flight factor" courses! Cruden Bay sticks out to me from reading his book as a "flight factor" course that you may want to consider.
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