Shot Shaping on Tour

texcellence86texcellence86 Funky Town, TXMembers Posts: 114 ✭✭
Maybe it's the tech...maybe it's the ball.....maybe the players. But we've all watched 1M times the classic TW videos with the stingers and every other knock down the old guys use to do. What is the idea behind no longer shaping shots (unless in the Jungle)?



Not considering a little fade here...a little draw there. ****, even now you will still see TW hit is PW 115 while everyone else full out swings the Lob.



I will watch on repeat when someone does do something like that as it is a rarity these days.



Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves....
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Comments

  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,741 ✭✭
    edited Feb 7, 2019 5:08pm #2
    Before you had to. Today you don’t. Easy enough to get. The ball will go pretty straight. It used to not go straight.
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  • bandrzbandrz Members Posts: 957 ✭✭
    the modern ball does not curve
  • texcellence86texcellence86 Funky Town, TXMembers Posts: 114 ✭✭
    bandrz wrote:


    the modern ball does not curve




    I mean...not my favorite player by any means.....Bubba puts a pretty good move on the “modern ball”.
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  • BarfolomewBarfolomew #worstWRXer Members Posts: 1,242 ✭✭
    Funny how all you hear is how straight the new ball goes until next time you're at the course and slices and duck hooks are in abundance....ijs
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    This was a symphony of shot shapes at the Tour Championship







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  • SocratesSocrates How can it be so *&#% hard to make a shoulder turn? WinnipegClubWRX Posts: 9,222 ClubWRX




    Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves....


    I discussed it with myself (short conversation) and it's not a big deal.
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  • bigred90gtbigred90gt Lefty Boomers Posts: 4,331 ✭✭
    bandrz wrote:


    the modern ball does not curve




    I must be playing some old junk then, because mine curve plenty
  • GolfChannelGolfChannel Orlando, FloridaMembers Posts: 1,692 ✭✭
    bigred90gt wrote:
    bandrz wrote:


    the modern ball does not curve




    I must be playing some old junk then, because mine curve plenty




    Okay, I’ll be the dick and add the important part:



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  • jll62jll62 ClubWRX Posts: 2,027 ClubWRX


    Maybe it's the tech...maybe it's the ball.....maybe the players. But we've all watched 1M times the classic TW videos with the stingers and every other knock down the old guys use to do. What is the idea behind no longer shaping shots (unless in the Jungle)?



    Not considering a little fade here...a little draw there. ****, even now you will still see TW hit is PW 115 while everyone else full out swings the Lob.



    I will watch on repeat when someone does do something like that as it is a rarity these days.



    Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves....




    I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but I feel players of yesteryear had to learn to shape the ball because of limitations in equipment, not because it's some special, inherent part of the game. The way the balls were constructed dictated how you had to play, so I don't wax nostalgic about that style of play. Others do, and that's okay.



    I grew up playing balata. If you didn't learn how to control how much the ball curved, you couldn't play worth a ****. It's just a different test now. Personally, I much prefer the modern game than the one I grew up playing, even if I went from being above average in length off the tee to a relatively short hitter at my level.
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  • iutoddiutodd Members Posts: 216 ✭✭
    I think there is plenty of shot making on tour. Maybe it's not all "Bubba curved this one 60 yards" - but players often try to bend the ball towards the hole if it sets up well for them.



    We're just now really starting to get consistent pro-tracer on wedges and approach shots. Watch those and you'll see all kinds of movement and intentional shot making on the ball.
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,716 ✭✭
    This thread would be a ton more interesting if it was about "shape shifting" on tour.
  • BuzzkillBuzzkill Marshals Posts: 6,724 mod
    Barfolomew wrote:


    Funny how all you hear is how straight the new ball goes until next time you're at the course and slices and duck hooks are in abundance....ijs




    This!
  • PowderedToastManPowderedToastMan Members Posts: 3,782 ✭✭
    What I’ve noticed with this new crop of players is that most hit a cut off the tee. They’ve grown up with big headed drivers and low spin balls so they’ve learned a controlled shot off the tee that still goes far. Guys like Rahm hit considerable cuts too, borderline slices. It’s a drive that would have lost 20+ yards a generation or two ago.



    There is still a benefit to shaping shots though, especially with irons. It’s why Tiger is still the best iron player when he’s playing well.
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  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,708 ✭✭
    Players shape the ball plenty. Hard to know their intent and really get a perspective while watching on TV
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,741 ✭✭
    edited Feb 7, 2019 10:01pm #16
    In my opinion it’s not that you can’t curve the new ball. It’s that the new ball will go straight. With modern high moi clubs you can perfect a pretty near dead straight ball. Especially with driver. If I’m on , my driver is dead straight. If off I’m playing the leaker to the right.
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  • freeze16172002freeze16172002 Members Posts: 90 ✭✭
    You can curve the ball, but why? Today's game is based on distance, the rough at most events is not that bad. Most par 4's are driver-wedge
  • Frankensteins MonsterFrankensteins Monster Members Posts: 6,680 ✭✭
    bandrz wrote:


    the modern ball does not curve




    Modern premium ball curves just fine.
  • bandrzbandrz Members Posts: 957 ✭✭
    I was just being dramatic. Let me clarify. Of course the modern ball will curve. some. Surely no one will dispute that they curve a whole lot less than balls of the past, especially the wound balls. The reason shot shaping is going by the wayside has been mentioned above. There is no need for it. The modern ball (combined with modern equipment) will allow players to swing at 130mph with a relatively-speaking low penalty for a mis hit or poor swing. If a player is now hitting wedges where they used to hit 6 irons to a tucked pin, there is no need to curve it, even from the rough. You don't have to curve it around a front bunker now. You can stop the ball with spin, so fire away.
  • FergusonFerguson Members Posts: 4,641 ✭✭
    Any ball can be curved. If I could hit a straight ball 80% of the time - I would be happy, as would most chops.
  • airjammerairjammer Members Posts: 985 ✭✭
    bandrz wrote:


    I was just being dramatic. Let me clarify. Of course the modern ball will curve. some. Surely no one will dispute that they curve a whole lot less than balls of the past, especially the wound balls. The reason shot shaping is going by the wayside has been mentioned above. There is no need for it. The modern ball (combined with modern equipment) will allow players to swing at 130mph with a relatively-speaking low penalty for a mis hit or poor swing. If a player is now hitting wedges where they used to hit 6 irons to a tucked pin, there is no need to curve it, even from the rough. You don't have to curve it around a front bunker now. You can stop the ball with spin, so fire away.




    Yes, that is the modern game. Most of the top players have adapted their swing to hit it as far as they can. Hit is close make a putt...mishit it and splash it out of a very slightly up hill,flat or very slightly downhill lie in perfectly raked bunker. Apparently that is what people want to see so that is what the tour gives us.



    Myself I’d rather see someone who has much more control over the golf ball and don’t care what their swing looks like to accomplish that. How many wedge shots do we see miss the green these days with a straight ball?🤷🏼‍♂️
  • I_HATE_SNOWI_HATE_SNOW Members Posts: 3,259 ✭✭
    Try watching Bubba Watson?
  • MattyO1984MattyO1984 Members Posts: 4,777 ✭✭
    I don't get the common belief that players don't shape the ball anymore. I get out to plenty of tour events, in the last couple of years I have managed to get to The Open, Scottish Open and the Dunhill Links and there are plenty of guys out there hitting fades, draws, cuts and hooks as and when they need it which seems to be pretty often.



    I get that they might not need to do it as much as they used to. The equipment now means that if they need to attack a tight pin they can just launch it miles into the air and get it close but that they don't curve it to my mind is false.
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  • SimpSimp Members Posts: 2,908 ✭✭
    I think you'll find that most of it has to do with the modern swing. Players today are taught the "perfect" golf swing, which results in a ball that doesn't curve a lot. Couple that with a ball that doesn't want to curve and you get what you get.
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  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,716 ✭✭
    Watch when the weather gets bad, you can tell who has ball flight control.



    I remember a couple years ago watching the last few holes of a tournament and the wind was down off their backs. No one would 'risk' hitting a low ball, every guy in the hunt kept hoisting these big tall high trajectory shots, I imagine they were 3 or 4 clubs under clubbed, and watch them blow all over the place mostly off the back.



    Sneds on Sunday at Torrey a few years ago is a good example of a guy lapping the field with traj control.



    All of them can move it around, but over 72 holes of stroke, a straight ball and pars is the name of the game.
  • MattyO1984MattyO1984 Members Posts: 4,777 ✭✭
    Matt J wrote:


    All of them can move it around, but over 72 holes of stroke, a straight ball and pars is the name of the game.






    Delete pars and enter birdies I would say.
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  • Tyler1puttTyler1putt Members Posts: 116 ✭✭
    Its not necessarily that the ball itself doesnt curve but they are much easier to hit straighter.



    Modern clubs in part less side spin as easier to use.



    Balatas in particular moved sideways.



    I think a key point is that the angle of attack for the average tour player is different now to what it was back in the day particularly with drivers and the dawn of hitting up with low spin and launching the ball.



    How many players use 7 or 8 degrees now?



    The closest elements of the game to what is was then are wedges and you didnt massively shape a wedge even then. The dawn of the hybrid and the new style hybrid irons also make for straighter shots and much less curve.
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  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,716 ✭✭
    MattyO1984 wrote:

    Matt J wrote:


    All of them can move it around, but over 72 holes of stroke, a straight ball and pars is the name of the game.






    Delete pars and enter birdies I would say.




    They expect 4, for the par 5's, then there should be 6 'get-able' pins. Even on a par 70 layout, -8 under as a base score makes a ton of cuts.



    Web.com I'd agree, gotta make birdies, PGA can't make bogies.
  • El KabongEl Kabong Members Posts: 116 ✭✭

    bigred90gt wrote:
    bandrz wrote:


    the modern ball does not curve




    I must be playing some old junk then, because mine curve plenty




    Okay, I’ll be the dick and add the important part:



    “With a competent and consistent swing.”




    This doesn't make any sense at all. Either the ball can curve or it can't. If I can move the ball 20 yds left-to-right by accident, you'd better believe that the pros can do it on purpose.



    The fact that it doesn't move much when hit in a way designed to make it go straight is tautological.
  • GolfChannelGolfChannel Orlando, FloridaMembers Posts: 1,692 ✭✭
    El Kabong wrote:


    bigred90gt wrote:
    bandrz wrote:


    the modern ball does not curve




    I must be playing some old junk then, because mine curve plenty




    Okay, I’ll be the dick and add the important part:



    “With a competent and consistent swing.”




    This doesn't make any sense at all. Either the ball can curve or it can't. If I can move the ball 20 yds left-to-right by accident, you'd better believe that the pros can do it on purpose.



    The fact that it doesn't move much when hit in a way designed to make it go straight is tautological.




    The ball can curve but the extremes aren't really there anymore without some serious exaggeration in the shot execution. I was reminded of this yesterday when every time I tried to play a baby fade the shot just wanted to go straight instead. I'm hardly going to complain, but the variation today is in the ability to flight a shot up or down without the consequence of extreme sideways.



    I don't have numbers to back this up, but I guess the best measure would be your standard OTT Duffer with a mega slice. How much if any does the new ball limit that extreme sideways action?
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  • jmkenn0jmkenn0 Members Posts: 684 ✭✭
    Why hit it left or right when you can just hit it high?
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