I’m calling BS on 10+ yard gains

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  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers Posts: 28,368 ✭✭
    edited Feb 10, 2019 10:50pm #32
    cardoustie wrote:


    bogeypro wrote:


    My point is this: most all new major drivers releases today are similar performance. If you are properly fit, you won’t gain 10+ yards going from one to another.



    Convince me I’m wrong...










    What do you care!?! If someone is picking up a gain good for them. It’s not unheard of that a driver fits someone better than another. I couldn’t hit G400 max to save my life consistently. My G400 lst is almost automatic. Same shaft and everything.




    Me too, LST amazing ... max was atrocious




    Oh careful man, you don't want to poke the bear like that.



    Two things that will get you hate mail on WRX:

    1) Bad mouth a popular Ping driver

    2) Say that if you practiced like a pro for a year you could get to a +5 handicap.



    I've said both things so i would know! And i use the MAX!!!!! I just don't think it's some kind of revelation. It's just super forgiving
    Ping G400 Max 9 w/Matrix Black Tie 80
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  • breakfree40breakfree40 ClubWRX Posts: 693 ClubWRX
    I believe that properly fit vs properly fit and center strike vs center strike you are correct, OP.



    However: if you had a properly fit driver from 4-5 years ago and you missed the center let’s say high toe by a touch. When you compare results of that miss to a properly fit driver from this current crop (same swing, same miss off the center) then I believe that you would absolutely gain 10 yards by using one of today’s drivers. AND more importantly I think that dispersion overall would be better as a result.



    Sweet spots are growing, so to speak.
    2019:
    G400LST 8.5* Aldila Rogue Silver 125MSI 60 stiff
    Cobra 3/4 f9; Atmos Blue TS 7s
    Cobra 4/5 f8+; Atmos Red TS 8s
    3i - PW Miura CB1008; KBS Tour 120s; 2up +1/2”
    53* TM HiToe; KBS Wedge
    59* TM HiToe; KBS Wedge

    Byron Morgan DH89 flow neck 2* loft 71* lie
    Bettinardi Something Fishy Prototype BB0; Registry #RJB2821; 2* loft; 71* lie
  • dpb5031dpb5031 Members Posts: 5,147 ✭✭
    LaymanM wrote:

    bogeypro wrote:


    My point is this: most all new major drivers releases today are similar performance. If you are properly fit, you won’t gain 10+ yards going from one to another.



    Convince me I’m wrong...




    No manufacture has promised 10 more yards since Taylormade a few years ago...do you live in a hole?




    ...and to be fair,Talormade's claims were based largely on the fitting process of optimizing launch and spin numbers.
    USGA Index: ~2

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  • breakfree40breakfree40 ClubWRX Posts: 693 ClubWRX
    dpb5031 wrote:

    LaymanM wrote:

    bogeypro wrote:


    My point is this: most all new major drivers releases today are similar performance. If you are properly fit, you won’t gain 10+ yards going from one to another.



    Convince me I’m wrong...




    No manufacture has promised 10 more yards since Taylormade a few years ago...do you live in a hole?




    ...and to be fair,Talormade's claims were based largely on the fitting process of optimizing launch and spin numbers.




    Also to be fair one should be able to gain 10 yards from their gamer if they change the goalposts to super high launch and sub 1700 spin. That’s just simply not playable as a gamer with golf scores in mind... hence the gigantic love/hate sldr thread and the fact that no one should be using it for anything other than a scramble. IMO of course.
    2019:
    G400LST 8.5* Aldila Rogue Silver 125MSI 60 stiff
    Cobra 3/4 f9; Atmos Blue TS 7s
    Cobra 4/5 f8+; Atmos Red TS 8s
    3i - PW Miura CB1008; KBS Tour 120s; 2up +1/2”
    53* TM HiToe; KBS Wedge
    59* TM HiToe; KBS Wedge

    Byron Morgan DH89 flow neck 2* loft 71* lie
    Bettinardi Something Fishy Prototype BB0; Registry #RJB2821; 2* loft; 71* lie
  • scooterboy59scooterboy59 Members Posts: 978 ✭✭
    If I get 5+. I buy that club. 5 yards can get you and extra 10+ at times. It also might mean blowing it over that bunker at the corner of the dogleg or flying that hill to the down slope and picking up a extra 20 yards of roll. This is why buying I would buy.
  • VA golferVA golfer Members Posts: 302 ✭✭
    I think the new drivers this year are all seeing increased ball speeds on the misses. In other words they have been able to see gains in a larger area of the face. The way that I understand it is there is a max on CT but...





    The governing bodies have set a CT limit for drivers of 239 microseconds. A microsecond is one-millionth of a second, so 239-millionths of a second is the prescribed limit on how much time that steel ball and the driver face can be in contact. However, the governing bodies allow a tolerance of 18 microseconds, so as long as the characteristic time measures at 257 microseconds (239 plus the tolerance of 18), a driver is ruled conforming for spring-like effect. A CT reading
    above 257 means the driver is non-conforming.



    With all that being said form my understanding all of the manufacturers this year are pushing their drivers right up to the 257 limit where as in the past they were at 239 plus or minus. They have been able to push their drivers right up to the legal limit through greater quality control by testing every driver head before it leaves the factory. This includes Titleist, Taylormade and Callaway that I have heard. So 10 yards is not out of the question even if you were properly fit for a driver in the past. You could have had a driver that was 239 or 240 or 245. But at 257 properly fit you should see some gains and forgiveness gains also. Look at he tour issue driver head labels that you see for sale many of them list a CT of around 250 some of them way below that. I believe once you see the tour issue heads from this years heads for sale you are going to see higher numbers closer to the 257 mark.
    WITB
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  • reider69reider69 Members Posts: 615 ✭✭
    For the first time in my life I have a semi repeatable driver swing. I am playing a F7 with a shaft I like the feel of at a loft setting I guessed at. I anticipate when I get fitted by the local Mizuno Rep this spring I will see major gains in distance based solely on having a proper fit that is based on real data. After that I doubt I will ever see another gain like that as I am getting north of 40. I will just try and maintain the distance I have with new gear every few years.
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  • 596596 Lakeland, FLMembers Posts: 3,621 ✭✭
    I play with a few guys (all 3) that have bought drivers from me and added at least 10 yards if not more. One bought my 10.5* K15 and gained at least 15 yards and was much straighter. One purchased my G30 SFT and gained 10, and one bought my Ping G SFT and gained tons of accuracy and at least 10 yards.



    These are the guys that don't take lessons , they don't follow the latest and greatest from the OEMs, they have no idea what a fitting is and they play at least 3 days a week. So yes, they all saw big improvements but were never fit previously.
  • Nard_SNard_S Members Posts: 3,208 ✭✭
    It's human nature do something better with a new tool. After the honeymoon, things revert to norm. So 10 yards w/ "new" driver is not outlandish What might be is that it goes beyond 3 months.
  • bogeyprobogeypro The Original Bogeypro ClubWRX Posts: 3,227 ClubWRX
    Several good points here:



    1) Ball speed gains on off center hits are better now.

    2) people’s body changes since last fitting could be a big factor



    Good discussion
    Taylormade M6 w/ATMOS black ts 6x<br />Taylormade M5 3 wood w/HZRDUS black 75 6.5<br />Taylormade p790 3-pw <br />Taylormade hi-toe 52-9 and 58-10 wedges <br />Taylormade Spider Mallet 72
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,852 ✭✭
    edited Feb 11, 2019 9:57am #42
    MtlJeff wrote:


    Disagree....And there's pretty much zero question that i'm right at least in that this will not apply to everyone , or even almost everyone



    If you carry the ball 280 for example, 10 yards is 3.5% of your total distance. That is really not that much. A low spin head versus a normal head, even with the same loft and shaft, you could see a 10yd difference for sure.



    If you carry 250yds, we're talking 4% of your total



    I do not believe that all driver heads are within 4% of each other for every possible swing type and swing speed. I'm very confident that if you gave most golfers the ability to test every driver on the market with the same loft and shaft, there'd be a 10yd variance between the longest and shortest if they can carry the ball anywhere close to 250 or longer



    If your current driver is one that you were properly fit for and is <6-7 years old. Than no you probably wouldn't gain 10 however. But i would strongly disagree that all drivers are basically the same




    Have to agree with Jeff. With me I can see an easy 30 yard swing with spin numbers. I don’t always play the longest head I’ve hit. I play the one I can control.



    Not to mention the fact that a true fitting isn’t available to most people. Going to the big box and hitting 5 stock shafts isn’t a fitting. Put it this way. If you haven’t walked out of the facility with the very head and shaft in hand that you tested you haven’t been actually fit into anything. I’m talking the test head.



    You think the tour van guys make you a test driver , you test it on trackman and on course , love it then they order an “ identical “ one from the factory ? Nope. You hit that one. The one that worked. “ fittings” are mostly a farce.
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  • EddieEdwardsEddieEdwards Members Posts: 342 ✭✭
    I gain 10 yrds every year.



































    When the temp warms up and the courses dry out.
  • lefty1978lefty1978 Members Posts: 279 ✭✭
    I'll take my 29 yr old self and my 07 Burner over my 41 yr old self with epic sz.
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  • gvogelgvogel Members Posts: 7,327 ✭✭
    bogeypro wrote:

    LaymanM wrote:

    bogeypro wrote:


    My point is this: most all new major drivers releases today are similar performance. If you are properly fit, you won't gain 10+ yards going from one to another.



    Convince me I'm wrong...




    No manufacture has promised 10 more yards since Taylormade a few years ago...do you live in a hole?




    I'm talking about posters that say they've gained 10+ yards by switching drivers.



    I would agree that forgiveness on less than perfect strikes has gotten much better. Ball speeds seem to stay up better on off center hits on current heads.




    I would be surprised if 10+ yards on a launch monitor translates to a real gain on the golf course.



    Also, consistency and straight count for more than outright best launch monitor numbers when you actually play golf.
    Boyhood, like measles, is one of those complaints which a man should catch young and have done with it, for when it comes in middle life it is apt to be serious. - P. G. Wodehouse
  • rgk5rgk5 rgk5(OLB) Members Posts: 3,575 ✭✭
    Now according to Bobcat, we would ALL get at least 10 more years with his SLDR C. image/derisive.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':derisive:' />
    Cobra F8+, 10.5*, VA Composites Raijin 44 F2
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    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 58*, Alta 70 R

    Ping Zing 2 TR 34", Flatso 1.0 grip
  • gvogelgvogel Members Posts: 7,327 ✭✭

    MtlJeff wrote:


    Disagree....And there's pretty much zero question that i'm right at least in that this will not apply to everyone , or even almost everyone



    If you carry the ball 280 for example, 10 yards is 3.5% of your total distance. That is really not that much. A low spin head versus a normal head, even with the same loft and shaft, you could see a 10yd difference for sure.



    If you carry 250yds, we're talking 4% of your total



    I do not believe that all driver heads are within 4% of each other for every possible swing type and swing speed. I'm very confident that if you gave most golfers the ability to test every driver on the market with the same loft and shaft, there'd be a 10yd variance between the longest and shortest if they can carry the ball anywhere close to 250 or longer



    If your current driver is one that you were properly fit for and is <6-7 years old. Than no you probably wouldn't gain 10 however. But i would strongly disagree that all drivers are basically the same




    Have to agree with Jeff. With me I can see an easy 30 yard swing with spin numbers. I don't always play the longest head I've hit. I play the one I can control.



    Not to mention the fact that a true fitting isn't available to most people. Going to the big box and hitting 5 stock shafts isn't a fitting. Put it this way. If you haven't walked out of the facility with the very head and shaft in hand that you tested you haven't been actually fit into anything. I'm talking the test head.



    You think the tour van guys make you a test driver , you test it on trackman and on course , love it then they order an " identical " one from the factory ? Nope. You hit that one. The one that worked. " fittings" are mostly a farce.




    This^. +1.
    Boyhood, like measles, is one of those complaints which a man should catch young and have done with it, for when it comes in middle life it is apt to be serious. - P. G. Wodehouse
  • J2puttsJ2putts Members Posts: 611 ✭✭
    Gains are based on a properly fitted driver against a non fit .
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  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,594 ✭✭
    edited Feb 11, 2019 12:05pm #49

    MtlJeff wrote:


    Disagree....And there's pretty much zero question that i'm right at least in that this will not apply to everyone , or even almost everyone



    If you carry the ball 280 for example, 10 yards is 3.5% of your total distance. That is really not that much. A low spin head versus a normal head, even with the same loft and shaft, you could see a 10yd difference for sure.



    If you carry 250yds, we're talking 4% of your total



    I do not believe that all driver heads are within 4% of each other for every possible swing type and swing speed. I'm very confident that if you gave most golfers the ability to test every driver on the market with the same loft and shaft, there'd be a 10yd variance between the longest and shortest if they can carry the ball anywhere close to 250 or longer



    If your current driver is one that you were properly fit for and is <6-7 years old. Than no you probably wouldn't gain 10 however. But i would strongly disagree that all drivers are basically the same




    Have to agree with Jeff. With me I can see an easy 30 yard swing with spin numbers. I don't always play the longest head I've hit. I play the one I can control.



    Not to mention the fact that a true fitting isn't available to most people. Going to the big box and hitting 5 stock shafts isn't a fitting. Put it this way. If you haven't walked out of the facility with the very head and shaft in hand that you tested you haven't been actually fit into anything. I'm talking the test head.



    You think the tour van guys make you a test driver , you test it on trackman and on course , love it then they order an " identical " one from the factory ? Nope. You hit that one. The one that worked. " fittings" are mostly a farce.




    Jeff's incredibly large sweeping generalization of 10 yards at a minimum carry of 250 would no doubt be accurate.



    According to Flightscope, at an uber high ball speed (180 MPH) launched at 14* the difference between 2800 RPM and 2200 RPM is 7 yards carry.



    At lower SS the difference lessens. e.g. at 140 MPH the difference is 2 yards carry.



    Further, although I'm not totally surprised you think "fittings are a farce", I disagree with the old "buy the demo head and shaft". Tolerances today are much better than they used to be for both the head AND the shafts.



    Now most stores that I'm aware of will not SELL the demo.



    And while a terrific player like yourself, say scratch or better, MAY notice a difference between the demo setup and the one he bought, it's not going to be so different with the purchased setup than the demo setup that he'd have to give the purchased one the boot. And with so many adjustments available nowadays he could probably tweak it and get it just right anyway.



    And for the average player, the vast majority of them us will never notice a difference.



    Tour Pros ? No worries. The manufacturer will give 'em whatever they want. image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
    Post edited by Unknown User on

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  • GolfChannelGolfChannel Orlando, FloridaMembers Posts: 1,726 ✭✭
    I hit the ball shorter with the driver now than I did 5 years ago, but I'm also older and fatter, so it's probably that.
    Driver: He who shall not be named...
    3 Wood: Callaway Rogue w/Project X Blue Evenflow 75
    5 Wood: Callaway Rogue w/Project X Blue Evenflow 75
    Irons: Ping iBlade Nippon AWT 2.0 Stiff
    Wedges: Callaway MD3 50, 54, and Honma TW737 Forged 62
    Putter: Original Odyssey White Hot XG No. 7
    Ball: Srixon Z-Star 2018 (Yellow)
  • nick8400nick8400 Members Posts: 1
    bogeypro wrote:


    My point is this: most all new major drivers releases today are similar performance. If you are properly fit, you won't gain 10+ yards going from one to another.



    Convince me I'm wrong...




    I purchased the Cobra F9 this year after seeing gains for the first time in several years. Maybe even a decade to be honest. The F9 is legitimately 8 yards longer for me in the air. It was quite shocking to hit 5-6 drivers with almost identical carry and then all of the sudden see 8 yards over and over with the Cobra. I am not an equipment junkie and don't take changes lightly. But this was a no brainer. I find it easy to hit high draws and can even hit power fades that are not spin shots with this thing. I was playing the Callaway 816 Double Diamond something or another and was happy with my distance until the Cobra blew me away.



    Maybe this thing was made just for me image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
  • gibbyfangibbyfan Members Posts: 1,191 ✭✭
    I have been fit a couple of times within the last few months. For the driver, yes you can find more yards with being fit. When I am at a fitting or working with my instructor I only look at the carry numbers. So, looking at my data from a Club Champion Fitting my gamer from last year had an average carry of 246.7 carry, but during my Tour Spec in late January I have 5 different combinations that had carry averages around the 260 ( +/- 4 yards). There was 1 combo that was 270 average but I hit it all over the place and was spinning the driver too low.
  • GolfChannelGolfChannel Orlando, FloridaMembers Posts: 1,726 ✭✭
    nick8400 wrote:

    bogeypro wrote:


    My point is this: most all new major drivers releases today are similar performance. If you are properly fit, you won't gain 10+ yards going from one to another.



    Convince me I'm wrong...




    I purchased the Cobra F9 this year after seeing gains for the first time in several years. Maybe even a decade to be honest. The F9 is legitimately 8 yards longer for me in the air. It was quite shocking to hit 5-6 drivers with almost identical carry and then all of the sudden see 8 yards over and over with the Cobra. I am not an equipment junkie and don't take changes lightly. But this was a no brainer. I find it easy to hit high draws and can even hit power fades that are not spin shots with this thing. I was playing the Callaway 816 Double Diamond something or another and was happy with my distance until the Cobra blew me away.



    Maybe this thing was made just for me image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />




    I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm willing to bet someone already said this, but I think most gains (if any) are down to the improvement in shaft technology. Now manufacturers are working to maximize forgiveness and speed across the entire face. That said, that's why speed gains like that seen with the F9 are so consequential if realized for the average golfer.
    Driver: He who shall not be named...
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    5 Wood: Callaway Rogue w/Project X Blue Evenflow 75
    Irons: Ping iBlade Nippon AWT 2.0 Stiff
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  • Sparky14Sparky14 Members Posts: 358 ✭✭
    At my age, I have to get the new driver each year so that I only lose 10 yards each year.
  • gentlesgentles Members Posts: 1,867 ✭✭
    bogeypro wrote:


    Several good points here:



    1) Ball speed gains on off center hits are better now.

    2) people's body changes since last fitting could be a big factor



    Good discussion




    I tested out my G400 and 2016 M2, both with the same Aldila Tour Blue 75x. Ball speed was similar, spin was 2000 on M2, 2750 on G400 = more than 10 yards difference at my 15* launch angle. Whether I can control 2000 spin on the course is a different question, but that wasn't the original proposition.



    My guess is that 90% of the "gains" we see seeing are players who are optimising the spin/launch combo. With identical ball speed, spin & launch can have a huge impact on total distance.



    Just keeping the shaft the same doesn't fix that problem either - optimal depends on both shaft and head. If I switch to a super low/low shaft the G400 might produce similar numbers to M2.
    Taylormade 2016 M2 10.5 Aldila Tour Blue 75x
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    On the bench/testing: G400 LST, Callaway 3deep, Cobra LTD 3-4, Callaway Apex 23*, UDI 2 and 3 irons, Ping Glide 53, PM Grind 64
  • roundersmittyroundersmitty Members Posts: 1,108 ✭✭
    so if we are talking misses....some have larger sweet spot, some are more forgiving high on the face, some more forgiving low on the face, some face technology helps some more than others bring misses to fairway. if misses are 15 yards better on average....than the gains can be more than 10yards. most people are looking into a grouping of results when data is telling them to switch.
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,852 ✭✭
    edited Feb 12, 2019 7:24pm #57
    nsxguy wrote:


    MtlJeff wrote:


    Disagree....And there's pretty much zero question that i'm right at least in that this will not apply to everyone , or even almost everyone



    If you carry the ball 280 for example, 10 yards is 3.5% of your total distance. That is really not that much. A low spin head versus a normal head, even with the same loft and shaft, you could see a 10yd difference for sure.



    If you carry 250yds, we're talking 4% of your total



    I do not believe that all driver heads are within 4% of each other for every possible swing type and swing speed. I'm very confident that if you gave most golfers the ability to test every driver on the market with the same loft and shaft, there'd be a 10yd variance between the longest and shortest if they can carry the ball anywhere close to 250 or longer



    If your current driver is one that you were properly fit for and is <6-7 years old. Than no you probably wouldn't gain 10 however. But i would strongly disagree that all drivers are basically the same




    Have to agree with Jeff. With me I can see an easy 30 yard swing with spin numbers. I don't always play the longest head I've hit. I play the one I can control.



    Not to mention the fact that a true fitting isn't available to most people. Going to the big box and hitting 5 stock shafts isn't a fitting. Put it this way. If you haven't walked out of the facility with the very head and shaft in hand that you tested you haven't been actually fit into anything. I'm talking the test head.



    You think the tour van guys make you a test driver , you test it on trackman and on course , love it then they order an " identical " one from the factory ? Nope. You hit that one. The one that worked. " fittings" are mostly a farce.




    Jeff's incredibly large sweeping generalization of 10 yards at a minimum carry of 250 would no doubt be accurate.



    According to Flightscope, at an uber high ball speed (180 MPH) launched at 14* the difference between 2800 RPM and 2200 RPM is 7 yards carry.



    At lower SS the difference lessens. e.g. at 140 MPH the difference is 2 yards carry.



    Further, although I'm not totally surprised you think "fittings are a farce", I disagree with the old "buy the demo head and shaft". Tolerances today are much better than they used to be for both the head AND the shafts.



    Now most stores that I'm aware of will not SELL the demo.



    And while a terrific player like yourself, say scratch or better, MAY notice a difference between the demo setup and the one he bought, it's not going to be so different with the purchased setup than the demo setup that he'd have to give the purchased one the boot. And with so many adjustments available nowadays he could probably tweak it and get it just right anyway.



    And for the average player, the vast majority of them us will never notice a difference.



    Tour Pros ? No worries. The manufacturer will give 'em whatever they want. image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />




    Just not true. There’s a reason why ping is The only oem that will sell you a certified loft head. The others are all over the map and don’t want to offer the service to look for a loft.



    And 800 rpm is the range? Ive seen much wider than that shaft to shaft and head to head of different models. If that was the window for high speed players it would be easy to find a head that worked.



    I Stand by the statement. Tolerances are better than persimmon days but not nearly good enough to order blind and call it fitted.



    Good example. Slant neck spider putters. I have a habit of looking at everyone I see. And 75% sit closed on their own. Rarely do they sit square. And almost never slightly open. Can they be bent. Sure. At cost of paint. But I’d never order one sight unseen.



    And lastly. I’m not talking about big box demo heads. I’m talking a green grass fitter who will take the time to demo his stock of heads. I’ve done this more than once last year through several contacts and it’s eye opening the difference you can see swapping the same shaft into a different head of the same brand and model. Be it loft , weight , or face angle combo it makes a difference.



    Ever hear the story about DJ having cow when someone started to adjust the weights in his new m3 head ? How many you think he hit to find that one? By the reaction I’d say dozens. Ever pay attention to the tour issue Taylormade drivers and woods for sale ? All have spec stickers when new. The lie , actual loft , CT , and face angles are all over the map. Just picking a head blindly is akin to having a lob wedge that says 60 degrees but for some reason you hit it as long as your 56. Wouldn’t you check the loft of the 56 and 60 and bend both to proper gap of need be ? Problem is you can’t bend modern drivers and adjustable hosels don’t truly work exactly like getting the proper spec head does. Say you fit for a 10 degree real loft and a 1 degree open face angle. They order one that comes in and is a 8 degree loft and has a 1 degree closed face angle. If you open the face with adjustment you’re going down in loft. So if you hit the proper head Welll. How do you think you’ll hit a head with 2-3 degrees less loft and a shut face ? I can answer that. Like ****.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • sdandreasdandrea Steve Members Posts: 2,352 ✭✭
    There is the old adage that if we actually gained all the cumulative distance claims the OEMs have made since the dawn of thin-faced titanium heads, we'd be hitting 800 yard drives. So in that sense, the claims are BS.
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  • starrman77starrman77 Starrman Members Posts: 410 ✭✭
    Ever notice that when then say their driver is 10 yards longer, they never say longer compared to what?
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  • steph_alexsteph_alex Members Posts: 35 ✭✭
    bogeypro wrote:


    My point is this: most all new major drivers releases today are similar performance. If you are properly fit, you won't gain 10+ yards going from one to another.



    Convince me I'm wrong...




    I get your idea but you're not 100% correct.

    What you should say is that given the exact same speed and launch angle characteristics, there shouldn't be a 10 yards difference between modern heads.

    However, it could only be true if it was a robot swinging the club with 100% repeatability and center strikes and not humans swinging the club.

    And even if we'd have a robot swing all the modern heads at the same speed, you think we'd have the exact same distance?

    I'm pretty sure we'd see a 10 yard gap between two heads. Mainly because not two heads produce the same amount of spin and because some faces are hotter than others.

    What about the ball? The ball would also produce different results.

    You can't look at it as an ultimate when there are so many variables that can alter the result.



    And what is being properly fit?



    Distance is first of all a factor of speed.

    I currently game a TS2 and my numbers would be considered as correct from a fitting point of view and my stats show I've been hitting 65% of fairways.

    I tried a PING G400 during a demo day and I was swinging it 4/6 mph faster which would equal to a 10 yard gain given the same spin.

    Does it mean I am not fit properly? Would PING be wrong to say I gained 10 yards with their heads?



    Another important factor is spin.

    Where you impact the ball on the face can change spin up to 1500/2000 rpm which equals over 20 yards in total distance.

    Some face will be better for you than others and some faces more spinny than others.



    This is why there are different models for different people for different swings and why certain models can offer real gains to someone over another model.

    You should look at performance not as an absolute but as a variable and differentiate that from marketing claims.

    There is no best driver, only the best driver for you.
  • gibbyfangibbyfan Members Posts: 1,191 ✭✭
    There was a graphic on Sunday or Monday's Golf Central where it shows that in the last 4 years that Phil has increased his distance by 20 yards. Phil is a known player that loves to tinker and look for a slight edge. I am also certain that Phil goes through a pretty extensive fitting each year. There are gains to be had.
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