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Hypothetical - 6 more clubs

 MocGolfer ·  
MocGolferMocGolfer Sponsors  312WRX Points: 93Posts: 312 Greens
Joined:  in Tour Talk #1
If they allowed Pros to use 20 clubs, would it make a difference in their scoring? Would the ability to have a big choice of wedges and other clubs in their bag improve their scoring? By how much?<br />
<br />
Or are the pros good enough to hit what shots they need to make with their current number of 14. <br />
<br />
I remember some pro even played once with two putters, one for long putts and one for short ones.<br />
<br />
What say you?
Posted:
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Comments

  • tideridertiderider Members  3117WRX Points: 2,140Handicap: 5ishPosts: 3,117 Titanium Tees
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    um, no ...
    Posted:
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  • MocGolferMocGolfer Sponsors  312WRX Points: 93Posts: 312 Greens
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    Didn't Phil once put two drivers in his bag? One for draws and one for fades?
    Posted:
  • MattyO1984MattyO1984 Members  6185WRX Points: 1,641Handicap: 3Posts: 6,185 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Feb 11, 2019 #4
    Could you imagine how long it would take?<br />
    <br />
    Is it a 7, a 7.5 or an 8?<br />
    <br />
    64 degree wedge or the 70?<br />
    <br />
    The only people who would like this would be club manufacturers.
    Posted:
    Titleist TS3 8.5 Stiff Project X Even Flow T1100 White
    Titleist 915Fd 15 Stiff Rogue Black 
    Titleist 712U 3 Stiff Graphite Design Tour AD DI
    Titleist T100 4-PW Stiff Project X LZ
    Titleist Vokey SM6 50.08 & 54.10
    Titlesist Vokey SM7 60.04
    Scotty Cameron Futura 5S
    ProV1x 2019
  • Ty_WebbTy_Webb New YorkMembers  3255WRX Points: 456Handicap: +0.9Posts: 3,255 Titanium Tees
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    I'd rather they make the limit 9 clubs. I think that would be a very interesting test. Can you figure out how to take a club off or add a club to what you are hitting. Is it a hooded, pumped 8 iron, or a grip down 3/4 6 iron. That would be fun to watch and would make shotmaking much more important.
    Posted:
    Ping G400 LST 9° Diamana white 63x
    Ping G410 LST 3 wood Diamana Thump
    Taylor Made UDI 2 iron Diamana Tensei white 90TX
    Titleist 714CB 3, 4
    Titleist 714MB 5-PW
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 52 and 56 WS
    Scotty Cameron Newport 2
  • MocGolferMocGolfer Sponsors  312WRX Points: 93Posts: 312 Greens
    Joined:  #6
    Ty_Webb wrote:
    <br />
    I'd rather they make the limit 9 clubs. I think that would be a very interesting test. Can you figure out how to take a club off or add a club to what you are hitting. Is it a hooded, pumped 8 iron, or a grip down 3/4 6 iron. That would be fun to watch and would make shotmaking much more important.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    It would be fun to watch...how much would that effect scoring?
    Posted:
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 IowaClubWRX  21665WRX Points: 5,666Posts: 21,665 ClubWRX
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    Would be silly and pointless.
    Posted:
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  • Ty_WebbTy_Webb New YorkMembers  3255WRX Points: 456Handicap: +0.9Posts: 3,255 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #8
    MocGolfer wrote:
    <br />
    Ty_Webb wrote:
    <br />
    I'd rather they make the limit 9 clubs. I think that would be a very interesting test. Can you figure out how to take a club off or add a club to what you are hitting. Is it a hooded, pumped 8 iron, or a grip down 3/4 6 iron. That would be fun to watch and would make shotmaking much more important.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    It would be fun to watch...how much would that effect scoring?<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I think winning scores would be similar. I think the top guys would still be the top guys. You might get more churn in the 2nd rung and I think there would be more variability in scores week to week.
    Posted:
    Ping G400 LST 9° Diamana white 63x
    Ping G410 LST 3 wood Diamana Thump
    Taylor Made UDI 2 iron Diamana Tensei white 90TX
    Titleist 714CB 3, 4
    Titleist 714MB 5-PW
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 52 and 56 WS
    Scotty Cameron Newport 2
  • deadsolid...shankdeadsolid...shank ClubWRX  15232WRX Points: 1,276Posts: 15,232 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #9
    Ty_Webb wrote:
    <br />
    I'd rather they make the limit 9 clubs. I think that would be a very interesting test. Can you figure out how to take a club off or add a club to what you are hitting. Is it a hooded, pumped 8 iron, or a grip down 3/4 6 iron. That would be fun to watch and would make shotmaking much more important.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I would like that better too. Although what I would like the most is just to leave it alone. 14 works now, it worked in the past, it will keep working.
    Posted:

  • MocGolferMocGolfer Sponsors  312WRX Points: 93Posts: 312 Greens
    Joined:  #10
    Hawkeye77 wrote:
    <br />
    Would be silly and pointless.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    From what I have read there is no magic to the number 14, was just sorta randomly chosen way back in time to be the limit.
    Posted:
  • bladehunterbladehunter south carolinaMembers  30917WRX Points: 7,193Handicap: NONEPosts: 30,917 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #11
    This idea is like this guys idea. <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Posted:
  • stryperstryper Members  3467WRX Points: 973Posts: 3,467 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #12
    MocGolfer wrote:
    <br />
    Didn't Phil once put two drivers in his bag? One for draws and one for fades?<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Yes, but he still only had 14 clubs.
    Posted:
    Titleist 917D2, w/UST Mamiya Elements Chrome 7F4T
    Titleist 915Fd, w/Aldila Rogue Black 80-2.8-S
    18* KZG U Iron, w/UST Proforce V2 100-S
    Mizuno MP-18 MMC Fli-Hi 4-5, w/UST Recoil 95 F4
    Mizuno MP-18 MMC 6-P, w/UST Recoil 95 F4
    Callaway 52* MD5 JAWS S Grind
    Callaway 58* PM Grind 19
    T.P. Mills Professional Series Klassic/Odyssey O Works Tank #7
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  • GolfChannelGolfChannel Orlando, FloridaMembers  2562WRX Points: 777Handicap: 0.9Posts: 2,562 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #13
    No, I don't see how past 15 clubs it would make a real difference. I think having so many options may lead to paralysis by analysis.
    Posted:
    Driver: Ping G410 Plus w/Tensei Orange
    3 Wood: Titleist TS2 w/HZRDUS Smoke
    Hybrid: Titleist 718 H2 w/Atmos Blue TS 
    Irons: Ping iBlade Nippon AWT 2.0 Stiff
    Wedges: Callaway MD3 50, 54, and 58
    Putter: Original Odyssey White Hot XG No. 7
    Ball: Bridgestone XS
  • wildcatdenwildcatden China Cat Sunflower Members  1284WRX Points: 680Posts: 1,284 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #14
    If they allowed 20 clubs, Ben Hogan Golf company would make a roaring comeback to the top of the golf equipment world....which would not be a bad thing IMHO.
    Posted:

    -- Just tap it in. Just tap it in. Give it a little tappy tap tap taparoo. --

  • gvogelgvogel Members  8489WRX Points: 1,408Posts: 8,489 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #15
    MocGolfer wrote:
    <br />
    Didn't Phil once put two drivers in his bag? One for draws and one for fades?<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    YEs, and he won a Masters with that combo.
    Posted:
    Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing-glove.  P.G. Wodehouse
  • gvogelgvogel Members  8489WRX Points: 1,408Posts: 8,489 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Feb 11, 2019 #16
    MocGolfer wrote:
    <br />
    Hawkeye77 wrote:
    <br />
    Would be silly and pointless.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    From what I have read there is no magic to the number 14, was just sorta randomly chosen way back in time to be the limit.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    The story that I read was as follows:<br />
    <br />
    There was a Walker Cup match in 1936 at Pine Valley. At that point, players such as Lawson Little were carrying 34 clubs in their bags - or at least the caddies were.<br />
    <br />
    Bobby Jones was watching the matches, and on his way out one afternoon happened to meet an old friend from Great Britain who had also played in Walker Cup matches in the 1920's. They met up in the parking lot.<br />
    <br />
    They got to talking. Jones had used upwards of 16 clubs when he played; his British friend had used 12. They thought that 14 might be a good compromise. Jones had a lot of influence with the USGA. Heck, if you were the best golfer in the world, and amateur at that, you too would have influence. When Jones approached the USGA about a 14 club limit, well, it got done.<br />
    <br />
    ( I happen to be a proponent of 10 clubs. Harry Vardon won 6 Open Championships and 1 US Open with 9.)<br />
    <br />
    Edit: Lawson Little has just turned professional that Spring, so he was not playing. But he had won both the US Amateur and British Amateur the two previous years, so the number of clubs that he played was well known in the golf world in 1936. Wikipedia stated that he used up to 26 clubs; I thought that I had read 34 many years ago.<br />
    <br />
    Playing in that 1936 Walker Cup was Johnny Goodman, the last amateur to win a US Open (1933). Also, John Fischer, the last person to win a US Amateur playing hickory shafted clubs (1936)<br />
    <br />
    Francis Ouimet was the Captain. You might have heard of him. Just a little trivia for Monday.
    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing-glove.  P.G. Wodehouse
  • duffer987duffer987 Meh... eh Canadian in CaliforniaMembers  9933WRX Points: 1,164Handicap: ~8Posts: 9,933 Titanium Tees
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    Got it. So you don't like caddies, spectators, and viewers at home.<br />
    This hypothetical would be practically awful.
    Posted:
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  • NevinWNevinW Southside, West VirginiaClubWRX  1216WRX Points: 226Handicap: 4Posts: 1,216 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #18
    As outlined in a previous text, we would go back to how it was before the 14 club limit in the 1930's. No appreciable change in scoring, marked increase in hernia surgeries for caddies.
    Posted:
  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers  13920WRX Points: 1,489Handicap: 8-ishPosts: 13,920 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #19
    the reason there is a 14 club limit (was once 16 in USGA events I believe) is because they started making sets in 1/2 club increments. It was killing the caddies, this was before carts. <br />
    <br />
    Personally I think it should be 12. It would spread the gaps out just enough the big hitters would need to learn to hit more shots and the slower swingers would still have good gap spacing. <br />
    <br />
    20 would be ridiculous. I sometimes carry 15 if I am just messing around, and I rarely use more than 12 a round. Of my 4 wedges I can't remember the last time all 4 were needed in one round.
    Posted:
    I pick 14 of the following:
    Ping G400
    Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood
    Callaway Apex 23*
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS
    Grips NDMC +4
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Hoofer
    ProV1x-mostly
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • MocGolferMocGolfer Sponsors  312WRX Points: 93Posts: 312 Greens
    Joined:  #20
    Geesh....I didn't advocate for it, my question was given 20 clubs would pros' scores go down any? And while still NOT advocating for it...caddies can use push carts I believe, true?
    Posted:
  • mds5062mds5062 Members  78WRX Points: 15Posts: 78 Fairways
    Joined:  #21
    I would think it wouldn't make a difference. They might have customized clubs for a particular shot, like the Phil two driver comment above. Otherwise, instead of gripping down or forward lean on some shots, they would hit a new club entirely but achieve the same goal.
    Posted:
  • SoCalTitleistSoCalTitleist Members  3258WRX Points: 138Handicap: 13Posts: 3,258 Titanium Tees
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    16 would be a good number, extra driver and wedge or blade and mallet putter.
    Posted:
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  • FrostfieldFrostfield Members  940WRX Points: 140Posts: 940 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Feb 11, 2019 #23
    tiderider wrote:
    <br />
    um, no ...<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    [font=&]<br />
    [background=transparent]um, yes...[/background]
    <br />
    [background=transparent]Having 6 wedges and extra 4/5 wood and or driving iron would be extremely valuable on Par 5s. No yardage gapping whatsoever. I like carrying 4 wedges so I always have a decent gap between my 2 hybrid and 3 wood. 245 is a nightmare yardage for me. That number doesn't come up that often, but when it does....[/background]
    <br />
    [background=transparent]Then of course having a 2 driver setup would be amazing once you got it dialed in. I would love to have a driver set up for a draw. A bit more loft, a slightly softer tip, and a little weight towards the heel.[/background]
    <br />
    [background=transparent]I honestly believe it would shave a full stroke off the pro's average score.[/background]
    Posted:
  • gvogelgvogel Members  8489WRX Points: 1,408Posts: 8,489 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #24
    mds5062 wrote:
    <br />
    I would think it wouldn't make a difference. They might have customized clubs for a particular shot, like the Phil two driver comment above. Otherwise, instead of gripping down or forward lean on some shots, they would hit a new club entirely but achieve the same goal.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    The aforementioned Lawson Little also had a few left handed clubs in his bag - just in case.
    Posted:
    Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing-glove.  P.G. Wodehouse
  • cdnglfcdnglf Members  3728WRX Points: 1,156Posts: 3,728 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #25
    Over the course of a season, I think you’d see a difference. Having ~7 yard gaps all the way down to a 64 degree club would show up in proximity to the hole stats.
    Posted:
  • Vardon GripVardon Grip Members  601WRX Points: 307Posts: 601 Golden Tee
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    Too many clubs as it is. Lower the limit to 9 or 7 and would make it more interesting.
    Posted:
  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX  25497WRX Points: 2,700Handicap: 2 ManyPosts: 25,497 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #27
    Back in the Corporate America days, I hosted a scramble for our clients. One of the CIO's of a well know company showed up to play with both a right and left handed set of clubs in separate bags. He was ambidextrous and preferred to hit every shot with a draw. Did it help him or the team...um no. Did it have people laughing at him instead of me? Um...yes.
    Posted:
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  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members  9757WRX Points: 1,656Posts: 9,757 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #28
    It would give them more options but I do not think they'd score any better. 6 more clubs I could see something like:<br />
      <br />
    • Guys could carry a 5w and a driving iron<br />
    • a fade driver and a draw driver or<br />
    • a low spin driver and higher spin driver<br />
    • a very low lofted 3w or mini driver to chase balls up to the green on long par 5's if they can't hit driver off the deck<br />
    • 1 or even 2 specialty wedges<br />
    • an extra putter<br />
    <br />
    For me personally if I could add 6 clubs I'd probably add something like -<br />
    <br />
    1) Mega low spin driver for hitting into the wind or for links golf. Something like an M3 or SZ playing at like 8-9*, 44'' or even 43.5'' long.<br />
    2) I'd ditch the hybrid and add a 5w and a 20* driving iron.<br />
    3) Low bounce Sand wedge (already have higher bounce)<br />
    4) Low bounce Lob wedge (already have higher bounce)<br />
    5) 64* PM Grind/Hi Toe wedge<br />
    6) Mega high MOI putter for long lags when contact can stray from center.
    Posted:
    D - SIM Max 9* Tour Z Xtreme 465
    4w - SIM Ti Diamana B 80
    5w - Speedzone FX 2.0 380 or Speedzone 4i Modus 105
    Irons - P760 4-PW | Modus 120
    Glide 3.0 50/54/58 S400 Tour Issue
    Huntington Beach #1 or Toulon San Diego
    Ball - BXS


  • thesaxemachinethesaxemachine Hello, friends... Members  449WRX Points: 84Handicap: 9.9Posts: 449 Greens
    Joined:  #29
    I'd add a lefty club for when I get stymied.
    Posted:
    Titleist TS3 w/ Even Flow White
    M1 w/ Diamana Thump
    M4 Tour w/ Kuro Kage TiNi
    GAPR w/ KBS Tour Proto
    Srixon Z-765 w/ PX LZ
    Vokey 46° 
    Hi-Toe 52° & 58°
    Bobby Grace Tour Diamond 3
  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers  13920WRX Points: 1,489Handicap: 8-ishPosts: 13,920 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Feb 11, 2019 #30
    <br />
    Too many clubs as it is. Lower the limit to 9 or 7 and would make it more interesting.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I believe your avatar played a 7 club set. There is a pic of them in his book. Greatest golfer in the history of the game when he retired.<br />
    <br />
    Edit, found the pic on line, it was actually 9 clubs. <br />
    Posted:
    I pick 14 of the following:
    Ping G400
    Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood
    Callaway Apex 23*
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS
    Grips NDMC +4
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Hoofer
    ProV1x-mostly
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
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  • augustgolfaugustgolf Golf with dignity Coastal NCMembers  3968WRX Points: 282Posts: 3,968 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #31
    I grew up playing competitively with only 13, and that included a 2-iron that maybe got hit "full" once every 3 rounds, and used to punch out maybe once every other round, so I could easily have played with 12 clubs.<br />
    <br />
    From what I have been told about the historical value of the number of clubs - once Sarazan created the "modern" SW, many tour caliber players began putting 5 or more variations of it in their bags - kind of what we are seeing today, with so many players adding more clubs to the lower part of their bag, and being able to stay within the limit by dropping higher clubs.<br />
    <br />
    Lord - I was a caddy. "No Tip" Loftus, with his 25 clubs in his MacGregor staff-sized bag, carrying 60+ balls, and slicing at least 50 yards off-line on every hole - he would have added another 12 clubs just for good measure!<br />
    <br />
    (and, the Loftus' always asked for me on Friday Twilite 9 - he, with his monstrously heavy bag, always playing either right tree or a fairway over, and his wife, with her duck cotton bag, 1 wood, 4 irons, and a putter, and maybe one sleeve of 3 balls, drastically duck-hooking her way around the back 9)<br />
    <br />
    I always felt like I had caddied 36 holes for them after their 9 hole twilight (and remember...."No Tip")
    Posted:
    Pings from the beginning

    OGA member 1415
    or is it 1514...
    I don't remember exactly
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