Is the Pro V1 in trouble?

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  • wkuo3wkuo3 RELEASE  4370WRX Points: 385Members Posts: 4,370 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #62
    wfrogge1 wrote:

    wkuo3 wrote:
    Not many are Pro V1X winners. I think the Titleist dynasty had run it's course, especially after the Costco's original 4 piece K Sig. at $20 per doz. That was an industry shaker ! I wonder if the player counts will drop if they do away with the lucrative bonus paid to the player staffs. Titleist seemed to pay their player staff the highest endorsement fee. Is The Titleist still paying the tee off bonus of $5,000 ? Or the tee price had gone up or down nowadays ?




    Ksig although a good ball was nothing more than viral hype and so hard to get I have only seen them once in the store and have only found one on the course (and I play 50+ rounds a year). This is no different than in years past when some cheaper price ball goes viral. No different than the Preciept Lady, no different than the MG, etc.. Ksig will sell but if they tried to compete with the big dogs and sell in retail golf shops it would be a dud



    Long as Titleist keeps with the overall ball count every week like they have been for over a decade they will be ok. Saying "Not many are ProV1x winners" is kind of silly. **** most of the TP5 wins are TP5x and that does not mean the TP5 line as a whole is in trouble.


    Yir correct that even the original K Sig as popular as it was on the internet I had only played with several golfers whom had it, and I only play about 30 rounds last year.

    The point is, once the myth of the price of golf balls between MSRP Vs. VALUE is busted, the earth is actually flat and the search for the end of the world ENDED. golfers are now more open to explore the other brands of golf balls instead of grabbing the Titleist as the life line in hope to better their golf game.

    In fact, the edge the Pro V1 had over the rest against the rest of the field is diminishing, wishing to hold on to the leader's thrown without innovation is , just a wishful thinking.

    I don't know if I'll see it but, eventually a golf ball with a single material will dominate the market. I just wish whatever they come up with will be environmentally friendly besides the playability.
    Posted:
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  • T.B.T.B.  298WRX Points: 104Handicap: 10Members Posts: 298 Greens
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    Seems like lots of good balls on the market,, but the pro V1 still is the bench mark for all balls. Until these other ball companies have the trust that the pro V1 has with golfers,,, you’ll see people play different brands but they’re trying to find something as good as the pro V1
    Posted:
  • Invisible-zInvisible-z  114WRX Points: 29Members Posts: 114 Fairways
    Joined:  #64
    I moved away from Titleist to Bridgestone
    Posted:
  • L29L29  79WRX Points: 59Members Posts: 79 Fairways
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    ProV1 is no doubt still the benchmark, however, the only thing we can be sure of is the assurance of change. Titleist at some point in the future will become just one of the boys, but not yet. They were the original innovator of the modern ball, so there is a brand loyalty there to all those out there who were in their golf prime when the original came out years ago. The ball felt amazing and was leaps and bounds above everything else. All those loyalist will have to "die off" if you will to tilt the scales back to neutral for other manufacturers who have technically caught up.

    The human brain will see what it wants to see when brand loyalists are comparing other premium balls to the prov1, despite physics saying there's not much difference at all. Nothing wrong with that-if the prov1 gives someone a mental edge, you need all the edge you can get in this game.
    Posted:
  • provxprovx  865WRX Points: 111Members Posts: 865 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #66
    I prefer avx over prov1 now, also would rather game tpx, snell, and sxrixon xv
    Posted:
    Ping G400 Max 9* Tensei Pro Orange 70TX
    Ping G400 3 crossover Alta stiff
    Callaway Apex 4-SW recoil 780 stiff
    Cleveland cbx 60* recoil stiff
    Biomech Acculock
    Snell MTB Black
  • Break81Break81 Broke80  2034WRX Points: 90Handicap: 9.5Members Posts: 2,034 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #67
    GoGoErky wrote:


    As of October titleist had 45% market share down 1%, Callaway had 16% down 1% Tm and Bridgestone had 10% each up 1% each.



    It's going to be awhile before anyone catches titleist market share. TM or Bridgestone probavky carch Callaway before anyone them really cut into titleist


    Those are overall numbers including DT Soft etc correct? One must think some golfers are going to realized there are tour level balls available at DT Soft or Tour Soft pricing.



    BTW, Such a hype when the Tour Soft came out and most people I know who tried it didn't like the performance regardless of price.



    Titleist took a long time to have a yellow tour ball and really for those who golf on a budget they have priced themselves out of the premium market.



    I wonder if you strictly tallied up retail and online sales (omit proshop and country club sales where Titleist and Pinnacle are the only options) what the split would be.



    Is Titleist going away.... no. Are they at risk of losing another 5% market share over the next 5 years. Very good possibility. Question is do they care? If their margins are high enough a 5% hit may be better than weakening their brand perspective by lowering their price.
    Posted:
    Cobra F7+ - Stiff
    Callaway V-Series 3 & 5 wood with Aldila Rouge Silver
    Srixon 585 5-AW - Modus 105 Stiff
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 53 & 58 Degree
    EVNROLL ER5
    Srixon XV - Yellow
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  • Jdavenp3Jdavenp3  874WRX Points: 130Members Posts: 874 Golden Tee
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    Break81 wrote:

    GoGoErky wrote:


    As of October titleist had 45% market share down 1%, Callaway had 16% down 1% Tm and Bridgestone had 10% each up 1% each.



    It's going to be awhile before anyone catches titleist market share. TM or Bridgestone probavky carch Callaway before anyone them really cut into titleist


    Those are overall numbers including DT Soft etc correct? One must think some golfers are going to realized there are tour level balls available at DT Soft or Tour Soft pricing.



    BTW, Such a hype when the Tour Soft came out and most people I know who tried it didn't like the performance regardless of price.



    Titleist took a long time to have a yellow tour ball and really for those who golf on a budget they have priced themselves out of the premium market.



    I wonder if you strictly tallied up retail and online sales (omit proshop and country club sales where Titleist and Pinnacle are the only options) what the split would be.



    Is Titleist going away.... no. Are they at risk of losing another 5% market share over the next 5 years. Very good possibility. Question is do they care? If their margins are high enough a 5% hit may be better than weakening their brand perspective by lowering their price.




    I was one of the testers here on WRX for the Tour Soft. I didnt enjoy it at all. Add the price to it and it wasn't even on the radar. Tried out the AVX, I could use it if I practiced enough with it around the greens. Off the tee it was good-but still not enough to dethrone the Chrome Soft X.



    I am going to be honest, when I started playing and was losing 6 balls a round there was zero way I was paying for ProV type balls. Now I am more consistent and I have always played my best golf with w ProV1x, even though I used CSX Truvis (liked the pattern). I am going back to the PV1X this year and going to stay with it for the majority of the season. Every premium ball seems to be a wash until I get around the greens and I just prefer the feel of PV1X's over everything. If they had Truvis it wouldn't even be a thought, the yellow option helps a lot though.
    Posted:
    WITB:

    *Taylormade M4 8.75* Evenflow Black HC 6.0 65g
    *Taylormade M3 15* Tensei Blue
    *Ping i25 Hybrid 18*
    *Taylormade P790 4-AW Nippon Modus 105 T stiff
    *Taylormade MG2 Matte Nippon Modus 115 54/58*
    *Taylormade Spider X-navy w/ single sightline
    *2019 ProV1X-yellow
    *Nike camo cart bag.
    *Nike Vapor React 2 & Nike Air Max 1g
  • new2g0lfnew2g0lf  3448WRX Points: 355Members Posts: 3,448 Titanium Tees
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    Given it's the #1 ball on Tour by 2.5 - 3:1 and it has the same number of Tour wins as Callaway I'd be a bit nervous if I was Titleist.
    Posted:
    Driver - Home Callaway Epic Flash   Away Callaway Rogue Sub Zero 
    Woods - XXIO 10 3W
    Hybrids - XXIO 10 3H, 4H, 5H
    Irons - Home - PXG Gen 2 0311P 5-SW   Away - Callaway Apex CF-19 5-SW
    Wedge - PXG 58* 
    Putter - Seemore Nashville mFGP2 SS Mallet Black
    Ball - KSig, TM TP5X, Snell MTB
  • eagle1997eagle1997  18298WRX Points: 946Members Posts: 18,298 Titanium Tees
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    I wonder what the PGA trade-in value for used Titleists is? We need a lobbying firm to make those used golf balls worth more!



    6t8zack9vt911.gif
    Posted:
    Cobra F8+ 9.5°
    TEE XCG4 3w 15°
    Cally Steelhead XR 17°
    Cobra BioCell 22°
    Cobra One Length 5-PW
    Bstone J15 50°
    Bstone J15 52°
    Odyssey Black Milled #1
  • PuttCurseRepeatPuttCurseRepeat It's a ball mark repair tool. Use it!  910WRX Points: 147Members Posts: 910 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #71
    Danny Choo wrote:


    Genesis Open 2019

    Titliest Pro V1-96

    Competitors-22

    Winner-SRIXON



    UPDATED:

    Safeway open- Kevin Tway Pro V1

    Cimb classic- Mark leishmania Chrome soft

    CJ cup-Brooks Koepka Pro V1

    Wgc-hsbc championship- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

    Sanderson farms- Cameron Champ Srixon Z star

    Shriners- Bryson Dechambeau Bridgestone BX

    OHL classic- Matt Kuchar Bridgestone BX

    RSM classic- Charles Howell III Pro V1

    Hero world challenge- John Rahm TP5

    Tournament of champions- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

    Sony Open- Matt Kuchar bridgestone BX

    Career builder challenge- A. Long Pro V1

    Farmers insurance- Justin Rose Tp5

    Phoenix open- Ricky FowlerTP5

    Attached pebble beach- Phil Mickelson chrome soft

    Genesis Open- J B Holmes Srixon Z Star.



    Titliest-4

    Callaway-4

    Taylormade-3

    Bridgestone-3

    Srixon-2




    75+% of the tour "market", but only 25% of the tour wins.



    Hmmm... image/mellow.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':mellow:' />
    Posted:
  • ChrisGio315ChrisGio315  454WRX Points: 63Handicap: 17Members Posts: 454 Greens
    Joined:  #72
    Tiger played a Nike ball and won 80 times. During his prime, did we argue Nike was the best ball (over Titleist) because of WIN%? I think not...
    Posted:
    Titleist TS2 10.5*
    Titleist TS2 3w & 5w
    Titleist T300
    Titelist SM7
    Newport Select
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  • Hanlpa01Hanlpa01 Akron, OH 107WRX Points: 57Members Posts: 107 Fairways
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    I think it’ll become interesting to see whether a newer brand makes a break into the tour, such as Vice or Snell, and the corresponding impact (if any) that it has on the consumer market share.
    Posted:
  • BY#99BY#99  348WRX Points: 38Handicap: 10Members Posts: 348 Greens
    Joined:  #74
    No offense to Snell and Vice but I do not see anyone on tour playing them. Why would they when the other companies pay you to play their ball? It would be awesome to see someone play a direct to market ball and Snell based on the product and reputation probably has the best chance in my opinion.
    Posted:
  • cristphotocristphoto  3633WRX Points: 276Members Posts: 3,633 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #75
    One thing is certain and that is change. I’m old enough to remember when Wilson used to have an ad that said more majors were won with Wilson irons than all other brands combined.
    Posted:
  • KmacKmac  819WRX Points: 168Members Posts: 819 Golden Tee
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    Tiger played a Nike ball and won 80 times. During his prime, did we argue Nike was the best ball (over Titleist) because of WIN%? I think not...




    But it wasnt really a Nike ball..
    Posted:
  • Bad9Bad9  4687WRX Points: 550Handicap: 9.2Members Posts: 4,687 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #77
    L29 wrote:
    They were the original innovator of the modern ball,




    If you mean the modern solid core ball with a spinny cover then no they weren't the original innovator. The first to be used, and win, on pro tours was the Topflight Strata and I believe there was another company or two had similar balls out before Titleist did.
    Posted:
    Ping G410 Plus 10.5°/Alta CB55 r flex
    Ping G400 7w/Alta CB r flex
    Ping G400 4h/Xcaliber r flex
    Ping G400 5h/Xcaliber r flex
    Ping G400 6-U/Xcaliber r flex
    Ping Glide 2.0 ES 58°/Xcaliber r flex
    Mizuno Bettinardi C06
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  • The GeneralThe General  1775WRX Points: 162Handicap: 2Members Posts: 1,775 Platinum Tees
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    GSDriver wrote:


    I haven't played a ProV1 I haven't found in close to 10 years, maybe longer.



    Marketing only goes so far, still can't convince me that a ProV1 @ $4+ a ball, is that much, if any, better than those I get for $3 or less.



    I wonder how many PGA guys play Titleist cuz they're paid to do so? Those guys are good enough, and ball performance close enough across OEMs, that they could likely win with about any brand (except Volvik, as Bubba clearly demonstrated)




    I wonder how many PGA guys play non-Titleist balls cuz they're paid to do so?



    answer: all of them
    Posted:
  • rightslicerightslice  161WRX Points: 69Members Posts: 161 Fairways
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    There is the ball that changed the ball. LOL I did read a Callaway Engineer say "we haven't even scratched the surface on what golf balls will do in the future"



    To relate it to us hacks. If a pen manufacturer gave me $5,000 every Monday morning to use their pen and said pen exploded ink all over my desk I'd think well that sucks. The following Monday I'd have paper towels on hand to clean up while I deposited said 5 grand. repeat every Monday
    Posted:
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Kansas 13819WRX Points: 1,356Handicap: 8-ishMembers Posts: 13,819 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #80
    augustgolf wrote:


    At one point in time, Sears Roebuck & Company was the #1 retailer in the US, and also had the largest availability of products for delivery, via catalog/phone sales.



    And, I'm sure that there were those who said that Sears was never going to go away.



    The only thing certain is the uncertainty of how things turn out, whether in business or sports.




    This is so true. I remember when Titleist could barely sell clubs, the only thing they were known for was balls and Footjoy products. They weren't really known as a club company till the 1990's. Sure they sold them, but they were inferior and not widely used. MacGregor, Ram, Wilson, Spalding and Hogan were the leaders in selling clubs.



    In 1975 no one would have ever thought Most of the companies would be out of business, or the golf business. Wilson is a minor player now, and only exists because of their range of products. Wilson was the most dominant name in golf, similar to TM or Callaway now for many, many years.



    It would not surprise me one bit if 10 years from now someone else took the bulk of their market share. Until then they still rule the roost.
    Posted:
    I pick 14 of the following:
    Ping G400
    Callaway Epic Flash 3w 
    Ping G410 5 and 7 wood
    Callaway Apex 23*
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS or Vokey M Grind 58
    Grips NDMC +4
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ProV1x-mostly
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • GoGoErkyGoGoErky  2490WRX Points: 856Members Posts: 2,490 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #81
    Kmac wrote:



    Tiger played a Nike ball and won 80 times. During his prime, did we argue Nike was the best ball (over Titleist) because of WIN%? I think not...




    But it wasnt really a Nike ball..




    And he played a titleist ball for several years in the beginning iirc
    Posted:
  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16  8940WRX Points: 1,212Members Posts: 8,940 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #82
    Not in trouble per se, but definitely losing market share. I used to only want to play ProV but now I'll happily play my TP5X and if I need some more spin, TP5... and if I somehow need even more, then Chrome Soft or Kirkland. In the past year or so, I've really realized how similar most balls are now so I buy mostly on price and feel.
    Posted:
    D - Epic SZ | Tour Z Xtreme 465
    3w - '16 Tour Issue M1 (16.5*) | Diamana B 70
    5w - '17 M1 | Tensei Pro Blue 70
    4h - 818H1 | Tensei Pro White 90
    Irons - P760 5-PW | Modus 120
    GW - Glide 3.0 50/12 | S400 Tour Issue
    SW - Glide 3.0 54/12| S400 Tour Issue
    LW - Glide 3.0 58/10 | S400 Tour Issue
    P - Custom EVNROLL ER5
    Ball - Bridgestone BXS



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  • jwhite86jwhite86  798WRX Points: 259Handicap: 12ClubWRX Posts: 798 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #83
    I used to play only Pro V1's... but with so many bargain options... I've explored



    However, when/ if I play in an event I always seem to go back to the Pro V1



    It's still a very good ball and I trust it
    Posted:
    WITB
    Driver: TS2 10.5 - Diamana DF 60 TX
    3 Wood: 915 F 16.5 - Blueboard
    5 Wood: 909 F2 18.5 - Blueboard
    Hybrids: 816 H1 21 & 25 - Blueboard
    Irons 6-PW: 765 - PX LZ
    Wedges: 54º, 60º PXG 0311 - KBS
    Putter: Newport Mil-Spec

    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1651462-jwhite86-witb/
  • SM8SM8  30WRX Points: 95Handicap: Varies-Betting or BraggingMembers Posts: 30 Bunkers
    Joined:  #84
    Titleist is certainly loosing market share, as other OEM competition stiffens. The argument of 75% of tour means nothing, as 75% of the top 1% of golfers in the world equals zero $.

    The margin on balls is such that Titleist will do fine with even half of their current market share.
    Posted:
  • new2g0lfnew2g0lf  3448WRX Points: 355Members Posts: 3,448 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #85
    Danny Choo wrote:


    UPDATED:

    Safeway open- Kevin Tway Pro V1

    Cimb classic- Mark leishmania Chrome soft

    CJ cup-Brooks Koepka Pro V1

    Wgc-hsbc championship- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

    Sanderson farms- Cameron Champ Srixon Z star

    Shriners- Bryson Dechambeau Bridgestone BX

    OHL classic- Matt Kuchar Bridgestone BX

    RSM classic- Charles Howell III Pro V1

    Hero world challenge- John Rahm TP5

    Tournament of champions- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

    Sony Open- Matt Kuchar bridgestone BX

    Career builder challenge- A. Long Pro V1

    Farmers insurance- Justin Rose Tp5

    Phoenix open- Ricky FowlerTP5

    Attached pebble beach- Phil Mickelson chrome soft

    Genesis Open- J B Holmes Srixon Z Star.

    Puerto Rico Open- Martin Trainer Srixon Z Star

    WGC-Mexico- Dustin Johnson TP5



    Titliest-4

    Callaway-4

    Taylormade-4

    Bridgestone-3

    Srixon-3



    For all those trying to discredit Choo, I have been on point every prediction. The most trusted ball in golf have not lift a trophy in 5 weeks.




    It's not just that a Titleist ball player hasn't won in 5 weeks, but the high number of pro's that play Titleist which puts the odds in their favor. Seems the other manufacturers have signed up the hot players.
    Posted:
    Driver - Home Callaway Epic Flash   Away Callaway Rogue Sub Zero 
    Woods - XXIO 10 3W
    Hybrids - XXIO 10 3H, 4H, 5H
    Irons - Home - PXG Gen 2 0311P 5-SW   Away - Callaway Apex CF-19 5-SW
    Wedge - PXG 58* 
    Putter - Seemore Nashville mFGP2 SS Mallet Black
    Ball - KSig, TM TP5X, Snell MTB
  • noodle3872noodle3872 Chilliwack B.C. Canada 3144WRX Points: 535Handicap: 8.3Members Posts: 3,144 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #86
    new2g0lf wrote:

    Danny Choo wrote:


    UPDATED:

    Safeway open- Kevin Tway Pro V1

    Cimb classic- Mark leishmania Chrome soft

    CJ cup-Brooks Koepka Pro V1

    Wgc-hsbc championship- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

    Sanderson farms- Cameron Champ Srixon Z star

    Shriners- Bryson Dechambeau Bridgestone BX

    OHL classic- Matt Kuchar Bridgestone BX

    RSM classic- Charles Howell III Pro V1

    Hero world challenge- John Rahm TP5

    Tournament of champions- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

    Sony Open- Matt Kuchar bridgestone BX

    Career builder challenge- A. Long Pro V1

    Farmers insurance- Justin Rose Tp5

    Phoenix open- Ricky FowlerTP5

    Attached pebble beach- Phil Mickelson chrome soft

    Genesis Open- J B Holmes Srixon Z Star.

    Puerto Rico Open- Martin Trainer Srixon Z Star

    WGC-Mexico- Dustin Johnson TP5



    Titliest-4

    Callaway-4

    Taylormade-4

    Bridgestone-3

    Srixon-3



    For all those trying to discredit Choo, I have been on point every prediction. The most trusted ball in golf have not lift a trophy in 5 weeks.




    It's not just that a Titleist ball player hasn't won in 5 weeks, but the high number of pro's that play Titleist which puts the odds in their favor. Seems the other manufacturers have signed up the hot players.




    Wonder how these numbers would stack up if you looked at the Euro PGA Tour and LPGA Tour.
    Posted:

    Callaway Mavrik 9° driver Diamana ZF 50 S Flex

    Callaway Mavrik SZ 10.5° driver Diamana ZF 50 S Flex

    Callaway Mavrik 15° fairway wood Diamana ZF 60 S Flex

    Callaway Mavrik 20° hybrid MMT 90 S Flex

    Mizuno JPX 919 Hot Metal Pro 5-PW Modus3 Tour 105 S flex

    Mizuno S18 Gunmetal Wedges 50-07, 54-12, 58-12 and 62-08 Modus3 115 Wedge

    Odyssey Stroke Lab Ten S

    Callaway Chrome Soft X 

  • GolfingDad44GolfingDad44  89WRX Points: 4Handicap: 2Members Posts: 89 Bunkers
    Joined:  #87
    Can we get an updated ball count? Lol
    Posted:
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  • Dr. HackDr. Hack  106WRX Points: 56Handicap: MidMembers Posts: 106 Fairways
    Joined:  #88
    The problem with this type of "analysis" is you aren't accounting for selection bias from the ball makers. Titleist may spread their money out amongst more players, but among the top 10-20 guys I would imagine the ball brands are more evenly distributed. The best method would be to find players who changed brands and see how their performance and stats changed. Still, kind of interesting to see.
    Posted:
  • North TexasNorth Texas  4533WRX Points: 894Members Posts: 4,533 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #89
    Dr. Hack wrote:


    The problem with this type of "analysis" is you aren't accounting for selection bias from the ball makers. Titleist may spread their money out amongst more players, but among the top 10-20 guys I would imagine the ball brands are more evenly distributed. The best method would be to find players who changed brands and see how their performance and stats changed. Still, kind of interesting to see.




    Plus you have guys on that list that contractually "have" to use the ball they do because of the clubs they play. Chances are pretty good that some of them probably wouldn't be able to play Titleist even if they wanted to.
    Posted:
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