Why are graphite irons no longer popular

LambLamb LondonMembers Posts: 332 ✭✭
They don't seem to be popular like they were well over a decade ago. What happened? Seems people either got laughed at for using them or they made no difference.
«13

Comments

  • Ripken08Ripken08 Members Posts: 4,262 ✭✭
    The same reason your posts aren't

    Callaway GBB Epic 9*, MRC Tensei Blue AV stiff
    Callaway Steelhead III 3/5/7, uniflex steel
    Mizuno JPX 919 Forged, 4-GW, Nippon Modus 105 S
    Mizuno S18 54/58, Nippon Modus 105 wedge
    Ping Karsten 1959 Craz-E

  • stryperstryper Members Posts: 3,223 ✭✭
    image/dntknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dntknw:' /> Don’t know, my Recoils are very popular with me....easily he best equipment change of my career.
    Titleist 917D2, w/UST Mamiya Elements Chrome 7F4T
    Titleist 915Fd, w/Aldila Rogue Black 80-2.8-S
    18* KZG U Iron, w/UST Proforce V2 100-S
    Mizuno MP-18 MMC Fli-Hi 4-5, w/UST Recoil 95 F4
    Mizuno MP-18 MMC 6-P, w/UST Recoil 95 F4
    Titleist Vokey SM5 52-08 F
    Callaway 58* PM Grind 19
    Odyssey O-Works Tank #7
  • LemondeLemonde Members Posts: 745 ✭✭
    Ripken08 wrote:


    The same reason your posts aren't




    Ouch
    Driver - TM M5 Tour 435 10.5 Tensei Stock Orange X
    On Order - TM Original One Mini 13.5 Hzrdus Black 75 6.5
    Fairway - Ping G410 14.5 Evenflow Black 85 6.5 
    Hybrid - TM M6 19 Hzrdus Black 85 6.5
    Irons - W/S C300 Forged 5-GW KBS Tour V XStiff
    Wedge - Mizuno S18 56
    Wedge - TM Hi Toe 58
    Putter - Rife Phenom.Z 34”
  • Big BenBig Ben Members Posts: 9,074 ✭✭
    stryper wrote:


    image/dntknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dntknw:' /> Don’t know, my Recoils are very popular with me....easily he best equipment change of my career.
    He’s not talking about shafts he’s referring to actual iron head material.
    Irons: 19' Cobra CB's
    Drivers: Titleist TS3 & Cobra F9
    Fairway: Titleist 917F2
    Hybrid: A-Grind
    2 iron: Ping Rapture
    Wedges: Ping Gorge 2.0 Stealth's
    Putter: Evnroll 9.1
    Balls: ProV1
  • rxk9fanrxk9fan MidwestMembers Posts: 817 ✭✭
    Another Recoil fan in a huge way. Tennis elbow was close to ending my golf maybe for good last year. And, nothing feels better than Recoils with a quality forged iron. I don't know that dispersion is exact to steel, but I certainly don't notice a difference.

    Big Ben wrote:

    stryper wrote:


    image/dntknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dntknw:' /> Don't know, my Recoils are very popular with me....easily he best equipment change of my career.
    He's not talking about shafts he's referring to actual iron head material.




    ???
    Mizuno 190ST with Tensei Blue Stiff
    Taylormade M4 tour 3 wood with stiff Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited
    Cobra Baffler 6 with UST Elements Stiff
    Srixon U65 4i with SteelFiber R
    Srixon Z Forged with Recoil 95 F4 shafts
    Vokey 58, 54, 50
    O-Works 7s

    I am thinking about playing golf next year instead of HOing clubs!  
    Oh, changed my mind and still HOing ....but HC finally moving in the right direction.
    Definitions: HOing is changing any spot in your bag 3 or more times in a year
                       Optimizing is changing any/every spot in your bag up to twice a year :-)
  • LemondeLemonde Members Posts: 745 ✭✭
    Lightweight steel is just as good and much cheaper. And no one needs to get longer with irons , the heads are very good at being forgiving with springlike effect. As well if the pros aren’t using it there is very little street interest. I think Kuch is the only one using graphite and they aren’t even , they are hybrid steelfibers.
    Driver - TM M5 Tour 435 10.5 Tensei Stock Orange X
    On Order - TM Original One Mini 13.5 Hzrdus Black 75 6.5
    Fairway - Ping G410 14.5 Evenflow Black 85 6.5 
    Hybrid - TM M6 19 Hzrdus Black 85 6.5
    Irons - W/S C300 Forged 5-GW KBS Tour V XStiff
    Wedge - Mizuno S18 56
    Wedge - TM Hi Toe 58
    Putter - Rife Phenom.Z 34”
  • rgk5rgk5 rgk5(OLB) Members Posts: 3,598 ✭✭
    edited Feb 11, 2019 6:51pm #8
    The heads yes, shafts no. Yonex and Yamaha graphite heads flopped. There are far more graphite shafts on Tours now than ever. Duke, Snedeker, Kucher, Couples and many more on all three Tours.
    Cobra F8+, 10*, VA Composites Raijin 44 F2
    Cobra F8 3-4 wood 13.5*, VA Composites Raijin 44 F3

    Cobra F8 5-6 wood 17.5*, Tensei Blue A
    Ping i10 4-PW, AWT S, Maroon  Dot 
    Ping Gorge 50*, AWT S Maroon Dot

    Ping Glide 1.0 55*, CFS Wedge flex

    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 58*, Alta 70 R

    Evnroll ER6

  • LemondeLemonde Members Posts: 745 ✭✭
    Big Ben wrote:

    stryper wrote:


    image/dntknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dntknw:' /> Don’t know, my Recoils are very popular with me....easily he best equipment change of my career.
    He’s not talking about shafts he’s referring to actual iron head material.




    Never seen a graphite iron head.
    Driver - TM M5 Tour 435 10.5 Tensei Stock Orange X
    On Order - TM Original One Mini 13.5 Hzrdus Black 75 6.5
    Fairway - Ping G410 14.5 Evenflow Black 85 6.5 
    Hybrid - TM M6 19 Hzrdus Black 85 6.5
    Irons - W/S C300 Forged 5-GW KBS Tour V XStiff
    Wedge - Mizuno S18 56
    Wedge - TM Hi Toe 58
    Putter - Rife Phenom.Z 34”
  • RSinSGRSinSG ClubWRX Posts: 3,150 ClubWRX
    I'm dubious of your claim. What do you base it upon other than your personal observation.
    Ping G400 Tour AD DI6s
    Ping G30 3 wood, 5 wood
    Ben Hogan VTKR 21* hybrid
    Ping G400 Irons 5-SW, Steel Fiber i95
    Ping Glide 60* LW
    Scotty Cameron Studio Blade (or)
     Scotty CameronFastback
    Gamegolf
    https://www.ledges.com/ Home course
  • rgk5rgk5 rgk5(OLB) Members Posts: 3,598 ✭✭
    Lemonde wrote:


    Lightweight steel is just as good and much cheaper. And no one needs to get longer with irons , the heads are very good at being forgiving with springlike effect. As well if the pros aren’t using it there is very little street interest. I think Kuch is the only one using graphite and they aren’t even , they are hybrid steelfibers.




    Except for two major categories.



    1. Graphite dampens vibration 70% more than steel without moisture trapping shaft inserts. A boon for those with arthritis and tendonitis.



    2. Graphite shafts can be manufactured with an almost infinite number of bend profiles, tip and butt stiffness types in weights from 38 gms to 130 gms. No company has made a commercially viable steel shaft weighing less than 60 gms.
    Cobra F8+, 10*, VA Composites Raijin 44 F2
    Cobra F8 3-4 wood 13.5*, VA Composites Raijin 44 F3

    Cobra F8 5-6 wood 17.5*, Tensei Blue A
    Ping i10 4-PW, AWT S, Maroon  Dot 
    Ping Gorge 50*, AWT S Maroon Dot

    Ping Glide 1.0 55*, CFS Wedge flex

    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 58*, Alta 70 R

    Evnroll ER6

  • stryperstryper Members Posts: 3,223 ✭✭
    Lemonde wrote:

    Big Ben wrote:

    stryper wrote:


    image/dntknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dntknw:' /> Don’t know, my Recoils are very popular with me....easily he best equipment change of my career.
    He’s not talking about shafts he’s referring to actual iron head material.




    Never seen a graphite iron head.




    Nor have I.
    Titleist 917D2, w/UST Mamiya Elements Chrome 7F4T
    Titleist 915Fd, w/Aldila Rogue Black 80-2.8-S
    18* KZG U Iron, w/UST Proforce V2 100-S
    Mizuno MP-18 MMC Fli-Hi 4-5, w/UST Recoil 95 F4
    Mizuno MP-18 MMC 6-P, w/UST Recoil 95 F4
    Titleist Vokey SM5 52-08 F
    Callaway 58* PM Grind 19
    Odyssey O-Works Tank #7
  • Big BenBig Ben Members Posts: 9,074 ✭✭
    Oh yeah Yamaha and a few others produced irons actually made out of graphite.
    Irons: 19' Cobra CB's
    Drivers: Titleist TS3 & Cobra F9
    Fairway: Titleist 917F2
    Hybrid: A-Grind
    2 iron: Ping Rapture
    Wedges: Ping Gorge 2.0 Stealth's
    Putter: Evnroll 9.1
    Balls: ProV1
  • daleheaddalehead Members Posts: 1,531 ✭✭
    stryper wrote:

    Lemonde wrote:

    Big Ben wrote:

    stryper wrote:


    image/dntknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dntknw:' /> Don’t know, my Recoils are very popular with me....easily he best equipment change of my career.
    He’s not talking about shafts he’s referring to actual iron head material.




    Never seen a graphite iron head.




    Nor have I.




    I recall Yamaha making irons with graphite heads and shafts in the 1990's. The soles were steel bonded to a granite head.
  • stryperstryper Members Posts: 3,223 ✭✭
    dalehead wrote:

    stryper wrote:

    Lemonde wrote:

    Big Ben wrote:

    stryper wrote:


    image/dntknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dntknw:' /> Don’t know, my Recoils are very popular with me....easily he best equipment change of my career.
    He’s not talking about shafts he’s referring to actual iron head material.




    Never seen a graphite iron head.




    Nor have I.




    I recall Yamaha making irons with graphite heads and shafts in the 1990's. The soles were steel bonded to a granite head.




    I can see graphite being strategically used to lower head weight overall in hybrid-like iron sets, but I can’t see a graphite face plate...but I’m no engineer.
    Titleist 917D2, w/UST Mamiya Elements Chrome 7F4T
    Titleist 915Fd, w/Aldila Rogue Black 80-2.8-S
    18* KZG U Iron, w/UST Proforce V2 100-S
    Mizuno MP-18 MMC Fli-Hi 4-5, w/UST Recoil 95 F4
    Mizuno MP-18 MMC 6-P, w/UST Recoil 95 F4
    Titleist Vokey SM5 52-08 F
    Callaway 58* PM Grind 19
    Odyssey O-Works Tank #7
  • gdb99gdb99 Members Posts: 1,655 ✭✭
    I thought Kuchar was back to steel shafts?
    Cobra King LTD, Diamana Redboard stiff flex
    Titleist 917F 16.5, Diamana Tensei Blue regular flex
    Cleveland DST 3 hybrid, Diamana Redboard regular flex 
    Titleist AP1, 5-PW, Dynalite XP R300
    Vokey SM7 52F
    Vokey SM7 56M
    Cleveland 588RTG 60
    Odyssey #2
  • Asiangolfer1995Asiangolfer1995 Members Posts: 122 ✭✭
    It's a combination of both irons and shafts evolving over the last 5-6 years. The spring like effects of some new irons (P790 for example), and the new evolution of lightweight steel (DG 105 for example) has made it easier to play steel with all these new lighter and stronger material entering the market. Graphite still has its place in the market, but it's not as dominant anymore.
  • ChipNRunChipNRun Members Posts: 1,430 ✭✭
    Lamb wrote:


    They don't seem to be popular like they were well over a decade ago. What happened? Seems people either got laughed at for using them or they made no difference.




    Sounds like you want to insult people who use graphite shafts in irons.



    Early graphite iron shafts could be a bit feathery, but the last 5 years balance a lot better. Even if somewhat lighter, they seem to feel much more solid.



    Sorry Lamb, but I'm not sure you know what you're talking about.
    What's In The Bag *...

    Driver: Calla XR16 Pro 10.5° (set open) / Fuji Evolution II TS Speeder 665 R-flex 63 gr.
    FWs: Tour Edge XRail 4W + 7W / GraphiteDesign G60 R-flex 60 gr.
    or Calla Alpha 815, set 16° + 20° / Fuji Motore Speeder 665 R-flex 62 gr.
    Hybrid: Cobra FlyZ 3H 19° + 4H 22° / Matrix VLCT Altus Lite flex 73 gr.
    Irons: Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i - PW** / KBS Tour 90 R-flex 101 gr. (As of 21 Nov 2018)
    Wedge: Calla MD3 48°/8.SS + 54°/12.WS +
    MD.PM 60°/10  | KBS Tour R-flex 110 gr. |
    Putter: Slotline Inertial SL-583F / 34" w. SuperStroke 2.0 MidSlim grip
    Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag
    Ball: Calla SuperSoft
    * Either 7W or 3H left out, depending on course.
    ** Wedges: 46°and 48°are competing for bag space.
  • ChipNRunChipNRun Members Posts: 1,430 ✭✭
    gdb99 wrote:


    I thought Kuchar was back to steel shafts?




    Kuchar has a mixed bag, according to WITB after winning 2019 Sony Open:



    Hybrids: Bridgestone Tour B XD-H (18 degrees), Ping Anser (20)

    Shafts: Fujikura Motore Speeder TS 8.8 X flex


    Irons: Bridgestone J15CB (5-PW)

    Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold 105 S300 (soft stepped)


    Wedges: Bridgestone J40 Forged (52 bent to 51 degrees); Cleveland RTX-4 (58 bent to 57 degrees), Cleveland RTX-3 (62 bent to 63 degrees)

    Shafts: Aerotech Steelfiber i110X, KBS Tour 120 S, KBS Tour 120


    Note:
    the DG 105 S300 (103gr.) - softstepped - is not exactly a slugger shaft.
    What's In The Bag *...

    Driver: Calla XR16 Pro 10.5° (set open) / Fuji Evolution II TS Speeder 665 R-flex 63 gr.
    FWs: Tour Edge XRail 4W + 7W / GraphiteDesign G60 R-flex 60 gr.
    or Calla Alpha 815, set 16° + 20° / Fuji Motore Speeder 665 R-flex 62 gr.
    Hybrid: Cobra FlyZ 3H 19° + 4H 22° / Matrix VLCT Altus Lite flex 73 gr.
    Irons: Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i - PW** / KBS Tour 90 R-flex 101 gr. (As of 21 Nov 2018)
    Wedge: Calla MD3 48°/8.SS + 54°/12.WS +
    MD.PM 60°/10  | KBS Tour R-flex 110 gr. |
    Putter: Slotline Inertial SL-583F / 34" w. SuperStroke 2.0 MidSlim grip
    Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag
    Ball: Calla SuperSoft
    * Either 7W or 3H left out, depending on course.
    ** Wedges: 46°and 48°are competing for bag space.
  • KevinnzKevinnz Members Posts: 254 ✭✭
    Tried steelfibre 95 stiff in my 3 iron and hybrid, maybe its the graphite dampening of vibration or whatever the reason it might be, I just could not feel the shaft. I dont lose noticeable distance with constant weight steel shafts so there went the steelfibre.
  • Big BenBig Ben Members Posts: 9,074 ✭✭
    After a life of hard work and sports at 50yrs old modern graphite iron shafts are a God sent. I always have one set with graphite.
    Irons: 19' Cobra CB's
    Drivers: Titleist TS3 & Cobra F9
    Fairway: Titleist 917F2
    Hybrid: A-Grind
    2 iron: Ping Rapture
    Wedges: Ping Gorge 2.0 Stealth's
    Putter: Evnroll 9.1
    Balls: ProV1
  • ago33ago33 Members Posts: 2,177 ✭✭
    edited Feb 11, 2019 11:17pm #23
    ChipNRun wrote:

    gdb99 wrote:


    I thought Kuchar was back to steel shafts?




    Kuchar has a mixed bag, according to WITB after winning 2019 Sony Open:



    Hybrids: Bridgestone Tour B XD-H (18 degrees), Ping Anser (20)

    Shafts: Fujikura Motore Speeder TS 8.8 X flex


    Irons: Bridgestone J15CB (5-PW)

    Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold 105 S300 (soft stepped)


    Wedges: Bridgestone J40 Forged (52 bent to 51 degrees); Cleveland RTX-4 (58 bent to 57 degrees), Cleveland RTX-3 (62 bent to 63 degrees)

    Shafts: Aerotech Steelfiber i110X, KBS Tour 120 S, KBS Tour 120


    Note:
    the DG 105 S300 (103gr.) - softstepped - is not exactly a slugger shaft.




    I love the random graphite shaft in his bag. After how much he stiffed his caddy you would think he could afford to replace it with the 105 s
    Cobra F9 Speedback 9.................................Mitsubishi PO 70 TX
    Tour Edge CBX 13.5.......................................Rombax P95 X
    Tour Edge CBX 18..........................................Rombax P95 X
    Mizuno MP-18 FliHi 4,5................................DGTIX100
    Mizuno MP-25 6-9........................................DGTIX100
    Callaway MD Forged 46, 50, 56, 60........DGTIS400
    Scotty Cameron 5.5M...................................Grip Master
  • RSinSGRSinSG ClubWRX Posts: 3,150 ClubWRX
    Big Ben wrote:


    He’s not talking about shafts he’s referring to actual iron head material.




    I’m not sure about that. His question was why they were no longer popular like they were a decade+ ago. Graphite heads like Yonex we’re never popular and they were 30+ years ago.
    Ping G400 Tour AD DI6s
    Ping G30 3 wood, 5 wood
    Ben Hogan VTKR 21* hybrid
    Ping G400 Irons 5-SW, Steel Fiber i95
    Ping Glide 60* LW
    Scotty Cameron Studio Blade (or)
     Scotty CameronFastback
    Gamegolf
    https://www.ledges.com/ Home course
  • Big BenBig Ben Members Posts: 9,074 ✭✭
    RSinSG wrote:

    Big Ben wrote:


    He’s not talking about shafts he’s referring to actual iron head material.




    I’m not sure about that. His question was why they were no longer popular like they were a decade+ ago. Graphite heads like Yonex we’re never popular and they were 30+ years ago.
    True that
    Irons: 19' Cobra CB's
    Drivers: Titleist TS3 & Cobra F9
    Fairway: Titleist 917F2
    Hybrid: A-Grind
    2 iron: Ping Rapture
    Wedges: Ping Gorge 2.0 Stealth's
    Putter: Evnroll 9.1
    Balls: ProV1
  • rgk5rgk5 rgk5(OLB) Members Posts: 3,598 ✭✭
    gdb99 wrote:


    I thought Kuchar was back to steel shafts?




    He did late last year but has returned to Steelfibres IIRC.
    Cobra F8+, 10*, VA Composites Raijin 44 F2
    Cobra F8 3-4 wood 13.5*, VA Composites Raijin 44 F3

    Cobra F8 5-6 wood 17.5*, Tensei Blue A
    Ping i10 4-PW, AWT S, Maroon  Dot 
    Ping Gorge 50*, AWT S Maroon Dot

    Ping Glide 1.0 55*, CFS Wedge flex

    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 58*, Alta 70 R

    Evnroll ER6

  • LambLamb LondonMembers Posts: 332 ✭✭
    ChipNRun wrote:

    Lamb wrote:


    They don't seem to be popular like they were well over a decade ago. What happened? Seems people either got laughed at for using them or they made no difference.




    Sounds like you want to insult people who use graphite shafts in irons.



    Early graphite iron shafts could be a bit feathery, but the last 5 years balance a lot better. Even if somewhat lighter, they seem to feel much more solid.



    Sorry Lamb, but I'm not sure you know what you're talking about.






    Huh Where is the insult in my post? I know exactly what I am talking about and it's that in the current market graphite shafts in irons are not as popular as they were when they came out.
  • rgk5rgk5 rgk5(OLB) Members Posts: 3,598 ✭✭
    Lamb wrote:

    ChipNRun wrote:

    Lamb wrote:


    They don't seem to be popular like they were well over a decade ago. What happened? Seems people either got laughed at for using them or they made no difference.




    Sounds like you want to insult people who use graphite shafts in irons.



    Early graphite iron shafts could be a bit feathery, but the last 5 years balance a lot better. Even if somewhat lighter, they seem to feel much more solid.



    Sorry Lamb, but I'm not sure you know what you're talking about.






    Huh Where is the insult in my post? I know exactly what I am talking about and it's that in the current market graphite shafts in irons are not as popular as they were when they came out.




    Do you have a Datatech survey to prove that? I fit 50-65 sets of irons per year and in the last two years 15-20% of my fits were with graphite shafts. I don't think my results would be substantially different from a lot of other fitters
    Cobra F8+, 10*, VA Composites Raijin 44 F2
    Cobra F8 3-4 wood 13.5*, VA Composites Raijin 44 F3

    Cobra F8 5-6 wood 17.5*, Tensei Blue A
    Ping i10 4-PW, AWT S, Maroon  Dot 
    Ping Gorge 50*, AWT S Maroon Dot

    Ping Glide 1.0 55*, CFS Wedge flex

    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 58*, Alta 70 R

    Evnroll ER6

  • SheriffBoothSheriffBooth Marshals, BST Volunteer Mods Posts: 4,461 mod
    UST introduced Recoil shafts in 2013. So they are infinitely more popular than they were a decade ago.
    Taylormade M6, 9.0*, Hzrdus Smoke 60 S
    Taylormade M5, 15*, Hzrdus Smoke 70 S
    Callaway Apex 3H, Kuro Kage S
    Taylormade P-790, 4-PW, Recoil 110 F4 +1"
    Taylormade MG 50, 56, 60 Recoil 110 F4 +1"
    Cameron Futura 5.5M, 36"
  • 95124hacker95124hacker Rare putter collection Members Posts: 1,311 ✭✭
    Is there any statistically significant data from Club Champion or any other nationwide fitter or retailer?



    Personally I’m 100% on board with graphite iron shafts. They can be engineered to almost any bend profile desired whereas extruded steel tubing is limited to step patterns. Until 3D printed steel shafts are commercially viable, engineered graphite provides design advantages.
    ‘17 M2 “K serial” 10.5* turned down a notch, Fujikura Pro Tour Spec 63S
    '16 M1 3HL (17*), Fujikura Pro 70S
    King F7 2-3 (19*), Fujikura Pro 75h, S
    Fourteen Hi-610h T.S. #4 (24*), Quadra 4AX SOF 100i
    '09 Yamaha Inpres X V-Forged Tourmodel 4-PW, Roddio Pentacross I-10, S
    Cleveland RTX-3 V-MG 52* & 58*
    Odyssey WHP CSM 400g
    Ball: Performing validation testing of the M G S test
  • rgk5rgk5 rgk5(OLB) Members Posts: 3,598 ✭✭


    Is there any statistically significant data from Club Champion or any other nationwide fitter or retailer?



    Personally I'm 100% on board with graphite iron shafts. They can be engineered to almost any bend profile desired whereas extruded steel tubing is limited to step patterns. Until 3D printed steel shafts are commercially viable, engineered graphite provides design advantages.




    Since I work as a fitter for one of the world's largest golf retailers (Golf Town) I think the data I posted on #28 above woild be close to the N. American average. Not every one is a +2 who needs X100 or PX 6.5 shafts.
    Cobra F8+, 10*, VA Composites Raijin 44 F2
    Cobra F8 3-4 wood 13.5*, VA Composites Raijin 44 F3

    Cobra F8 5-6 wood 17.5*, Tensei Blue A
    Ping i10 4-PW, AWT S, Maroon  Dot 
    Ping Gorge 50*, AWT S Maroon Dot

    Ping Glide 1.0 55*, CFS Wedge flex

    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 58*, Alta 70 R

    Evnroll ER6

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