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I’m giving up Blades... sort of...

tgoodspe1991tgoodspe1991 Advanced Members Posts: 586 ✭✭
So I have decided, even though I’m a decent player and still easily have “the swing speed” for ‘em, I’m giving up Blades.



My only real miss with irons and wedges are shots off the toe, and since a blade has usually more mass in the heel, I get the worst drop offs in that situation. I think the time has come that there’s just too much tech and forgiveness in modern players cavity clubs to overlook it anymore. I have had great rounds and bad rounds with all types of clubs, but I think on average true musclebacks contribute more on the negative side and players cavity clubs on the positive side.



So for 2019 I’m setting myself some restrictions to my club-ho bags to see if I improve:



(1) No muscle back irons whatsoever unless it’s in the PW or 9i, I love the look of blades so this way I could have them still but more on shorter shots with less penal misses. But even then try to not play them entirely.



(2) All other irons must be players cavity variety, ie: AP2, Apex Pro, Cobra KING, Mizuno SC, Taylormade P750/760, etc.



(3) Longest iron is a 4i, no more 3i, and maybe try to incorporate an even more forgiving 4i like a Z585 when using Z785 irons or something.



I love love love the look of true MB’s, but the reality is I think CB’s and up help my game on average more often given my specific miss patterns. With all the tungsten and weight distribution and tech, CB irons just have more versatility in their potential designs.



I thought I’d open the discussion for others who are thinking the same, and I’ll try to report back as time progresses. I really want to try to stick to these general rules for all of 2019 and get a good test going to see if I feel my game has improved on average. Wish me luck!
“Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated; it satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same
time rewarding and maddening – and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented."
- Arnold Palmer
«1345

Comments

  • rjp217rjp217 Advanced Members Posts: 177 ✭✭
    Part of the same reasons I moved off a full true blade set. I didn’t get to play as much as i used to so my consistency went away with MBs. Decided to move to the blended set of Mizuno MP 18s and it’s really helped my game with respect to forgiveness/confidence.
    In Bag:

    TaylorMade M3 9.5* (Tensei Pro White 70TX)
    P790UDI 2 (Aldila RIP Alpha 105X)
    Mizuno MP18: MMC FH 3-4 / MMC 5-6 / SC 7-8 / MB 9-PW (KBS Tour 130X)
    Cleveland RTX4 Black 50* (DG TI Onyx X100)
    Cleveland RTX3 Raw 54* / 60* (DG TI Onyx X100)
    PXG Bat Attack P 375 (Black Steel)

    On Rotation:

    TaylorMade M3 15* (Aldila Rogue Silver 70X)
    Mizuno MP18 MMC FH 2 (KBS Tour 130X)
    '18 TM O-Works 7CH (Black Steel)
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Advanced Members Posts: 2,900 ✭✭
    edited February 12
    I'd say go with whatever gives you confidence and frees you up. You definitely don't want to use anything you don't feel you can hit.



    I've been able to slide into a small CB without hesitation. My MP-64s were probably the sweetest pseudo-blade I tried. My VR Split Cavities were also buttery soft and just as perimeter-weighted as say, an AP2 or some newer Callaway Apex.



    Nothing wrong with CBs at all. Very little difference IMO. Just gotta find what you like in terms of size, offset, sole width, etc.
    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.50)
    Fairway: TaylorMade RBZ Black (16.50)

    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (3-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52.12 (F) / 56.14 (F) / 60.10 (S)
    Putter: Odyssey O-Works 2-Ball Red
  • llewol007llewol007 4KidsGolfer ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 3,353 ClubWRX
    I went combo set and it has helped my transition from full MB sets. It's a good in between. Although I want to carry a 4 iron, there is nothing wrong with a hybrid
    Cobra F8 9* Aldila Rogue 60 3.0 X Stiff
    Cobra LTD 14.5 Degree Aldila Rogue 70 3.3 X Stiff
    Cobra LTD 17.5 Degree Aldila Rogue 70 3.6 X Stiff
    Cobra MB/CB 4-PW DG AMT S300 Black HHx1
    Cobra MB 50/54/60 DG AMT S300 Black HHx1
    Taylor Made Ghost Long Hosel DA22
    Vice Pro +
  • dennis4190dennis4190 Advanced Members Posts: 556 ✭✭
    The scorecard doesn’t know what irons you’re using. Use what helps your score the most
  • GMR2ironGMR2iron Advanced Members Posts: 1,502 ✭✭
    Played Mizuno blades my whole life, went to the Titleist 718CB's. Almost looks like a blade from address, but much more playable in the longer irons. Just as workable. Not missing my Mizzy's at all...
    Titleist 915D4 9.75 Matrix Black Tie
    Titleist 915F 15.5 Matrix Black Tie
    Titleist TMB 2 iron Tensei Pro White
    Titleist 718CB 3 thru PW
    Titleist SM7 50-08 and 56-08
    Yes! Tracy
  • greenwavegolfergreenwavegolfer Advanced Members Posts: 113 ✭✭
    I wish I could get myself around to that way of thinking. I plan on getting fit for the new Srixon irons in a few weeks and my current thoughts pre-fitting are a set of Z-Forged blades from 5-P and a Z-785 3i and 4i (bending the 4i 1° weak to blend the set a little better). I'd actually probably do just fine, if not objectively slightly better with the added forgiveness of just doing the 785s in 3-P and maybe just loft matching them to the Z-Forged specs (basically 1° weak in 4-8) but I just love the way a blade looks and feels and that little less offset. I rationalize it to myself that I don't play competitively really (though I want to start getting into some local am tournaments this year) and I should just play what I like best within reason and certainly as a scratch golfer the difference is probably very small between a blade and a players CB in the mid and short irons anyway. But I'm certain there are shots here and there where I would get more out of that slight cavity, toe shots like you say which do creep up on me as well from time to time. Fighting ego is hard in this game sometimes and I'm afraid for me it's usually a losing battle pretty often.
    WITB:

    Ping G400 LST 10º (Playing 9º) Project X EvenFlow Black 6.0
    Callaway Rogue SZ 3W (15º) Project X EvenFlow Blue 6.0
    Srixon Z-785 3i/4i Nippon Modus Tour 120X
    Srixon Z-Forged 5i-PW Nippon Modus Tour 120X
    Titleist SM5 50º SM6 54º, 58º Dynamic Gold S200
    Ping Sigma 2 Tyne
  • tgoodspe1991tgoodspe1991 Advanced Members Posts: 586 ✭✭
    MelloYello wrote:


    Nothing wrong with CBs at all. Very little difference IMO. Just gotta find what you like in terms of size, offset, sole width, etc.




    I do agree. Many players cavity back irons still look really great at address.



    I mean, a lot of Pros make pleeenntyyy of money using CB irons or bigger. I figure why am I making it harder on myself?



    Finding the right CB is going to be difficult. So much variation out there.
    “Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated; it satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same
    time rewarding and maddening – and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented."
    - Arnold Palmer
  • farmerfarmer Advanced Members Posts: 7,714 ✭✭
    tgood, you're making it harder on yourself because golf is an endless bout of self flagellation. Seriously, I think you'll be happy with the change.
  • tgoodspe1991tgoodspe1991 Advanced Members Posts: 586 ✭✭
    farmer wrote:


    tgood, you're making it harder on yourself because golf is an endless bout of self flagellation. Seriously, I think you'll be happy with the change.




    I like to think so too. The MB allure is hard to resist, but I just know it's time to start making some smart decisions with my bag around what's actually going to help me. So many players who are far better than me have made the switch or have combo sets, so why not me?
    “Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated; it satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same
    time rewarding and maddening – and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented."
    - Arnold Palmer
  • tobiasjdtobiasjd Advanced Members Posts: 423 ✭✭
    I like the look of blades too. That's why I only look at them.
    Cobra King LTD Black
    Titleist 910FD 15° 3w
    Titleist 917F2 18° 5w
    Callaway Apex 4h
    PING iBlade 5 - PW
    PING Glide 50° SS
    PING Glide 2.0 Stealth 56°, 60° SS
    Bettinardi BB1
  • Carl Spackler3Carl Spackler3 Advanced Members Posts: 893 ✭✭
    I have continued to seek forgiveness through years of Mizunos. 32, 57, 53, jpx 850, now 900 hot metals. You can get used to looking at any size iron with any size top line. And Hot metals are surprisingly easy to work right or left. Time is to pre ious to overthink . I’ll take high long and straight over tight looking blades
    Titleist 915 D2
    Ping G 3 W
    Ping G 5W
    Ping G25 Hybrid
    Mizuno JPX 900 hot metal 5-GW
    Vokey 52-08 sm4
    Vokey 56-14 sm6
    Odyssey White Hot RX2 ( but it better be careful)
  • kcsfkcsf Advanced Members Posts: 993 ✭✭

    farmer wrote:


    tgood, you're making it harder on yourself because golf is an endless bout of self flagellation. Seriously, I think you'll be happy with the change.




    I like to think so too. The MB allure is hard to resist, but I just know it's time to start making some smart decisions with my bag around what's actually going to help me. So many players who are far better than me have made the switch or have combo sets, so why not me?




    Have you given a look to the TMB, i500, and TM790 offerings? If you can give up a little feel vs the blades you might find them a great replacement. Forgiving, smallish size and muscle back look had me at hello.
    G400 Green Mamba 60TX
    Taylormade M2 Tour HL 3w Green Mamba
    Ping i500 irons
    Edel 50* & 56* wedges
    O-Works #7s red
  • ctay61983ctay61983 Advanced Members Posts: 125 ✭✭
    Srixon
  • GSDriverGSDriver Advanced Members Posts: 551 ✭✭
    Combo sets, I've liked those since my Hogan FTX from back in the day.



    I'm looking, haven't bought yet, at Apex Combo '19 set, then again might just stay with my Apex Pros from 2014, they're very nice irons, but hitting the 5 year old mark.
    Epic Speeder 661
    Rogue 4 Wood Evenflow 75 Blue
    Epic Hybrids 3/4/5
    Apex Pro 6-P Recoil 110 F4
    MD Slate Forged 52
    PM Grind 56/60
    Odyssey 7S
    All grips except putter are Iomic Sticky 2.3
  • tgoodspe1991tgoodspe1991 Advanced Members Posts: 586 ✭✭
    kcsf wrote:


    farmer wrote:


    tgood, you're making it harder on yourself because golf is an endless bout of self flagellation. Seriously, I think you'll be happy with the change.




    I like to think so too. The MB allure is hard to resist, but I just know it's time to start making some smart decisions with my bag around what's actually going to help me. So many players who are far better than me have made the switch or have combo sets, so why not me?




    Have you given a look to the TMB, i500, and TM790 offerings? If you can give up a little feel vs the blades you might find them a great replacement. Forgiving, smallish size and muscle back look had me at hello.




    I haven't tried any of them before besides a T-MB in a 2i and 3i. Very easy to hit, but I think I'd worry about having too little spin in the shorter irons. My buddy has the P790 which he seems to enjoy a lot and has hit some great shots with. I'd love a chunky top line but really little offset. The large offset is a struggle for me to look down at on some otherwise great looking irons.
    “Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated; it satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same
    time rewarding and maddening – and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented."
    - Arnold Palmer
  • tgoodspe1991tgoodspe1991 Advanced Members Posts: 586 ✭✭
    ctay61983 wrote:


    Srixon




    So far that's the main contender right now. I was thinking Z785 in 5-PW and either Z585 in the 4i or a 22* hybrid.



    Also considering I think...



    Apex 19 Pro

    Ping i210

    JPX 919 Forged (I think the 919 Tour are probably still too "bladey")



    The Srixon's are hard to resist though with their softer metal and awesome upgrade shafts at no charge -- like Tour Issue DG. Everyone upcharges for those except Srixon!
    “Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated; it satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same
    time rewarding and maddening – and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented."
    - Arnold Palmer
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Advanced Members Posts: 24,219 ✭✭
    Word to the wise. Measure the swingweight and lie angles of your favorite mb. And only test an iron when you’ve added weight to the head to match that swingweight and adjusted for lie. Same or very very similar shaft helps too. Going whole hog and hitting a lighter head plus light shaft etc is a recipe to lose your swing. My opinion. For reference. My i500 pw measured E1 last week when I recordEd all specs.( 5/8 over with 130g shaft). Loads of lead tape. Most modern heads are a good bit lighter than an MB.



    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    TM Tour 17 M1 14.5* Graphite Design AD DI 8X
    Ping i500 pre-production proto 3 iron Graphite Design AD DI 105X
    Ping i500 4-pw Modus 130X
    Ping Glide Forged 50 54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot
  • bladesoshanterbladesoshanter Members Posts: 35


    I'd love a chunky top line but really little offset. The large offset is a struggle for me to look down at on some otherwise great looking irons.


    +1

    Titleist 983E 8.5* Fujikura Vista Tour Series 70
    Titleist 909 F2 15.5* Project X 7B3 6.5 TS 75G
    Titleist T-MB 716 UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F5 3-4
    Titleist MB 716 UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F5 5-9
    Titleist BV SM5 48* F Nippon Pro Modus
    Titleist BV SM6 52* F KBS Hi Rev
    Titleist BV SM6 56* F KBS Hi Rev
    Titleist BV SM6 60* K KBS Hi Rev
    Scotty Cameron Newport Pro Platinum Mil-Spec 340G
  • Big BenBig Ben Advanced Members Posts: 8,895 ✭✭
    Checkout a full set of Cobra CB’s. The size is small and pleasing with the added benefit of tungsten plugs in the sole and toe.
    Irons: 19' Cobra CB's
    Drivers: Titleist TS3 & Cobra F9
    Fairway: Titleist 917F2
    Hybrid: A-Grind
    2 iron: Ping Rapture
    Wedges: Ping Gorge 2.0 Stealth's
    Putter: Evnroll 9.1
    Balls: ProV1
  • oz dee ceeoz dee cee Advanced Members Posts: 446 ✭✭
    edited February 13
    I love the look and feel of blades but when I see a large portion of tour pros using cavity backs, I do have to wonder why we do it to ourselves?



    Anyway, can’t wait for the Ping blueprints to come out. 😬😆.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • LaymanMLaymanM Advanced Members Posts: 1,966 ✭✭
    Shelved my MP-32 for Z785 5-PW and 2/4 u65 with steel shafts. No regrets. Dont miss blades at all.
    PING G400 Max 9*, Adidla Rogue Max 75x
    Callaway 815 Alpha 3W and 5W Speeder 665 stiff
    Srixon U65 4, Modus 105s
    Srixon Z785 5-PW Modus 120s
    Edel DVR 50, s200
    SM7 54F / 58K
    SC Studio Style Newport 2
  • tgoodspe1991tgoodspe1991 Advanced Members Posts: 586 ✭✭
    edited February 12
    oz dee cee wrote:


    I love the lolok and feel of blades but when I see a large portion of tour pros using cavity backs, I do have to wonder why we do it to ourselves?



    Anyway, can’t wait for the Ping blueprints to come out. 😬😆.




    Tell me about it...



    CH3 who is currently #2 on Tour in GIR with a bunch of rounds under his belt already does a combo set even further of:



    T-MB 4

    AP2 5-6-7

    CB 8-9-PW



    Mega CB/forgiveness combo set and here I am over here buying and selling butter knife 3-PW sets lol. Makes me wonder if CH3 who’s a way better player than me has a bag like this then maybe I should too lol


    LaymanM wrote:


    Shelved my MP-32 for Z785 5-PW and 2/4 u65 with steel shafts. No regrets. Dont miss blades at all.




    How’s the U85 in the 4i? Does it have loads of offset? I was thinking of doing Z785 5-PW with a Z585 4i. Debating the U85 but the photos make it look crazy offset.
    “Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated; it satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same
    time rewarding and maddening – and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented."
    - Arnold Palmer
  • LaymanMLaymanM Advanced Members Posts: 1,966 ✭✭

    oz dee cee wrote:


    I love the lolok and feel of blades but when I see a large portion of tour pros using cavity backs, I do have to wonder why we do it to ourselves?



    Anyway, can’t wait for the Ping blueprints to come out. 😬😆.




    Tell me about it...



    CH3 who is currently #2 on Tour in GIR with a bunch of rounds under his belt already does a combo set even further of:



    T-MB 4

    AP2 5-6-7

    CB 8-9-PW



    Mega CB/forgiveness combo set and here I am over here buying and selling butter knife 3-PW sets lol. Makes me wonder if CH3 who’s a way better player than me has a bag like this then maybe I should too lol


    LaymanM wrote:


    Shelved my MP-32 for Z785 5-PW and 2/4 u65 with steel shafts. No regrets. Dont miss blades at all.




    How’s the U85 in the 4i? Does it have loads of offset? I was thinking of doing Z785 5-PW with a Z585 4i. Debating the U85 but the photos make it look crazy offset.




    I dont think it does. Much less than a game improvement 4 iron would. I reshafted it to match irons and also length. It's a rocket. Love the u65. I did not like it with graphite though.
    PING G400 Max 9*, Adidla Rogue Max 75x
    Callaway 815 Alpha 3W and 5W Speeder 665 stiff
    Srixon U65 4, Modus 105s
    Srixon Z785 5-PW Modus 120s
    Edel DVR 50, s200
    SM7 54F / 58K
    SC Studio Style Newport 2
  • LaymanMLaymanM Advanced Members Posts: 1,966 ✭✭
    U65 4i and z785 5i



    It's a lot bigger but mirrored back slims it down on course. Awesome off tee and soooo easy to hit. Like cheating
    PING G400 Max 9*, Adidla Rogue Max 75x
    Callaway 815 Alpha 3W and 5W Speeder 665 stiff
    Srixon U65 4, Modus 105s
    Srixon Z785 5-PW Modus 120s
    Edel DVR 50, s200
    SM7 54F / 58K
    SC Studio Style Newport 2
  • dunndunn Advanced Members Posts: 6,353 ✭✭
    edited February 12
    Played mine today ..still shot 78 (no birds today) but man cpl mishits were bad...would my score change ....maybe a lil... but sure effects confidence and made me think alot more on next shot which didnt work out to my benefit, lol......made it worse....



    Just cuz they harder to hit and you have to concentrate more doesnt mean its gonna translate into better contact.....it can actually lead to worse contact and stiffer muscles thru swing in fear of not making a good one...



    Had 2 or 3 perfect shots (awesome feel that faded quick on next mishit, lol) but in 18 holes simply not enough.....CB's back in next round...



    Confidence frees up the swing, I dont really get any benefit other than "playing with MB" as my CB will do everything the same with less punishment.....I know this but havnt played the MB in awhile so thought I would take em out...
  • craz-ecraz-e Advanced Members Posts: 3,985 ✭✭
    You will be back!

    Muwahahahah
    Driver = Titleist TS3, Even Flow White 6.0 (44.5")
    5 Wood = Taylormade Burner

    Irons = Miura 1957 Baby Blades Project X LZ 6.0 (4-PW)
    Wilson Staff FG59 DG S300's (4-PW)
    Titleist 718 MB Project X LZ 6.0 (4-PW)
    Wedges = Titleist Vokey SM6 52*, 56* and 60*

    = Taylormade 64* Hi-Toe
    Putter = Wilson Staff 8882
    Ball = Titleist AVX
  • tatertottatertot Advanced Members Posts: 4,226 ✭✭
    Wow ... A plus handicapper being honest about what's best for his game ....



    All those double digits arguing about the butteriest blades with negative offset on the other threads could probably pick up a thing or two from this.
    Driver: Adams Speedline Fast 11, 9°
    Fairway: Adams Fast 10, 15*
    Irons: Ping i200 3 iron, Ping iE1 4-PW
    Wedges: Titleist SM7, 48º; Titleist SM5, 54º & 58º
    Putter: Cleveland Classics Huntington Beach #1, 35"
  • agolf1agolf1 Advanced Members Posts: 511 ✭✭

    oz dee cee wrote:


    I love the lolok and feel of blades but when I see a large portion of tour pros using cavity backs, I do have to wonder why we do it to ourselves?



    Anyway, can't wait for the Ping blueprints to come out. ����.




    Tell me about it...



    CH3 who is currently #2 on Tour in GIR with a bunch of rounds under his belt already does a combo set even further of:



    T-MB 4

    AP2 5-6-7

    CB 8-9-PW



    Mega CB/forgiveness combo set and here I am over here buying and selling butter knife 3-PW sets lol. Makes me wonder if CH3 who's a way better player than me has a bag like this then maybe I should too lol


    LaymanM wrote:


    Shelved my MP-32 for Z785 5-PW and 2/4 u65 with steel shafts. No regrets. Dont miss blades at all.




    How's the U85 in the 4i? Does it have loads of offset? I was thinking of doing Z785 5-PW with a Z585 4i. Debating the U85 but the photos make it look crazy offset.


    I'm much worse at the game than you, but moved off an AP2 like club to a GI/SGI a while back based on the same thought process. Spieth and Phil were hitting AP2 and X-Forged, maybe I should try something with a bit more help.
    Titleist 910 D2 11.25*, Diamana Ilima R-Flex (tipped 1')
    Callaway X Hot Pro 19* Fairway, Project X Velocity 6.0
    TaylorMade Raylor 22*, Raylor RE*AX S-Flex
    Ping G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    Ping Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
  • Chew70Chew70 Clan Johnstone Advanced Members Posts: 459
    Obviously it's up to you but forgiveness is bs for the most part. I went from blades to gi back to blades because the truth is my scoring average didn't change over a 2 year period. A pure strike with a blade is the pure essence of golf. Period. You can say what you want but the facts are no iron, gi or blade, will matter in the long run. Play what want and what looks good at adress. Life is too short. Peace out.
  • agolf1agolf1 Advanced Members Posts: 511 ✭✭
    tatertot wrote:


    Wow ... A plus handicapper being honest about what's best for his game ....



    All those double digits arguing about the butteriest blades with negative offset on the other threads could probably pick up a thing or two from this.


    They just came to this thread.
    Titleist 910 D2 11.25*, Diamana Ilima R-Flex (tipped 1')
    Callaway X Hot Pro 19* Fairway, Project X Velocity 6.0
    TaylorMade Raylor 22*, Raylor RE*AX S-Flex
    Ping G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    Ping Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
  • oz dee ceeoz dee cee Advanced Members Posts: 446 ✭✭
    I never fully got into the notion that blades make me concentrate harder or put more attention into my swing. Once I pull the trigger, there is little thought or concentration really. In any event, I can hit a GI iron as terrible as any iron despite intentions. I can also hit them just as well. I want to hit every shot as well as I can irrespective of the club in hand. But we are all different I guess.



    The reality for me is cavities give room for error cause I’m a hacker and will miss centre strikes.



    Still, when do those blueprints come out? 😬
  • vinny809vinny809 Advanced Members Posts: 467


    I have continued to seek forgiveness through years of Mizunos. 32, 57, 53, jpx 850, now 900 hot metals. You can get used to looking at any size iron with any size top line. And Hot metals are surprisingly easy to work right or left. Time is to pre ious to overthink . I’ll take high long and straight over tight looking blades




    Do have a full jpx hot metal set or a blend of forged and hot metal? I’m getting a fitting Friday and trying to decide what to do.
  • BiggErnBiggErn Advanced Members Posts: 1,993 ✭✭
    agolf1 wrote:
    tatertot wrote:


    Wow ... A plus handicapper being honest about what's best for his game ....



    All those double digits arguing about the butteriest blades with negative offset on the other threads could probably pick up a thing or two from this.


    They just came to this thread.






    Coping mechanism for self justification.
  • BiggErnBiggErn Advanced Members Posts: 1,993 ✭✭
    Chew70 wrote:
    Obviously it's up to you but forgiveness is bs for the most part. I went from blades to gi back to blades because the truth is my scoring average didn't change over a 2 year period. A pure strike with a blade is the pure essence of golf. Period. You can say what you want but the facts are no iron, gi or blade, will matter in the long run. Play what want and what looks good at adress. Life is too short. Peace out.




    That’s why over 75% of pros play something other than MBs.
  • Man_O_WarMan_O_War Advanced Members Posts: 2,662 ✭✭
    life is a struggle. the struggle is the beauty in the package...it has to be blades.
    Cobra LTD Pro Matrix F6M2/F7M3/Project X LZ 6.0 71g HC/ Fuji 661 III
    Cobra LTD 3/4 Kai'li 80
    Cobra LTD 4/5 Kai'li 80
    TM Mid_Rescue TP 22*
    Nike Vapor Pro Irons Modus 120x SSx2 4-pw
    RTX 3.0 50, 54, 60 Modus 125
    Machine LN M6
  • BonesawBonesaw Advanced Members Posts: 530 ✭✭
    There is a review from another site from a guy who went from +2ish to well under(or is it over) +3 testing g700s last summer. I believe he played a combo set of srixons before.



    It piqued my interest as a low single digit.



  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Advanced Members Posts: 24,219 ✭✭
    BiggErn wrote:

    Chew70 wrote:
    Obviously it's up to you but forgiveness is bs for the most part. I went from blades to gi back to blades because the truth is my scoring average didn't change over a 2 year period. A pure strike with a blade is the pure essence of golf. Period. You can say what you want but the facts are no iron, gi or blade, will matter in the long run. Play what want and what looks good at adress. Life is too short. Peace out.




    That’s why over 75% of pros play something other than MBs.






    is that random back pocket calculation accounting for all the Ping staffers flocking to the Blueprint MB ? lol
    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    TM Tour 17 M1 14.5* Graphite Design AD DI 8X
    Ping i500 pre-production proto 3 iron Graphite Design AD DI 105X
    Ping i500 4-pw Modus 130X
    Ping Glide Forged 50 54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot
  • jll62jll62 ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 1,963 ClubWRX


    So I have decided, even though I'm a decent player and still easily have "the swing speed" for 'em, I'm giving up Blades.



    My only real miss with irons and wedges are shots off the toe, and since a blade has usually more mass in the heel, I get the worst drop offs in that situation. I think the time has come that there's just too much tech and forgiveness in modern players cavity clubs to overlook it anymore. I have had great rounds and bad rounds with all types of clubs, but I think on average true musclebacks contribute more on the negative side and players cavity clubs on the positive side.



    So for 2019 I'm setting myself some restrictions to my club-ho bags to see if I improve:



    (1) No muscle back irons whatsoever unless it's in the PW or 9i, I love the look of blades so this way I could have them still but more on shorter shots with less penal misses. But even then try to not play them entirely.



    (2) All other irons must be players cavity variety, ie: AP2, Apex Pro, Cobra KING, Mizuno SC, Taylormade P750/760, etc.



    (3) Longest iron is a 4i, no more 3i, and maybe try to incorporate an even more forgiving 4i like a Z585 when using Z785 irons or something.



    I love love love the look of true MB's, but the reality is I think CB's and up help my game on average more often given my specific miss patterns. With all the tungsten and weight distribution and tech, CB irons just have more versatility in their potential designs.



    I thought I'd open the discussion for others who are thinking the same, and I'll try to report back as time progresses. I really want to try to stick to these general rules for all of 2019 and get a good test going to see if I feel my game has improved on average. Wish me luck!




    As someone who has switched between blades and CB's for years, I love this post. I'm a good ball striker and feel that I can easily play blades, but I've finally decided to stop trying to work them into the bag. People can claim all they want that the forgiveness line is BS, but that's simply not true in my experience. My best golf and most accurate ball striking has come during periods where I've had CBs in the bag.



    I did some testing this winter with P730 against my gamers (RSi TP) and a set of P750 that has finally convinced me to give up the blades idea for good (or at least another season). At a time when I'm trying to get better by finding fractions of a stroke here and there, it's just not worth it for me to take the slight hit with blades in the bag.
    TaylorMade M5 9.0, Tensei Pro White 60 S, 44.75"
    TaylorMade M5 Rocket 3, Tensei Pro White 70 S, 42.5"
    TaylorMade P-790 UDI 2, Aerotech SteelFiber i95 S
    TaylorMade P-760 3, KBS C-Taper S
    TaylorMade P-770 4, DG X100 (SSx1)
    TaylorMade RSi TP 5-PW, KBS C-Taper S+
    TaylorMade Milled Grind 52 Raw, DG S400
    TaylorMade Hi-Toe 60 (58), DG S400
    TaylorMade DJ Itsy Bitsy Proto, 34"
    TaylorMade TP5x #12

    jll62's WITB
  • balls_deepballs_deep Advanced Members Posts: 357 ✭✭

    ctay61983 wrote:


    Srixon




    So far that's the main contender right now. I was thinking Z785 in 5-PW and either Z585 in the 4i or a 22* hybrid.



    Also considering I think...



    Apex 19 Pro

    Ping i210

    JPX 919 Forged (I think the 919 Tour are probably still too "bladey")



    The Srixon's are hard to resist though with their softer metal and awesome upgrade shafts at no charge -- like Tour Issue DG. Everyone upcharges for those except Srixon!




    After deciding to not buy your combo set I went for AP2. After playing a few rounds with my Mizzy blades and a few rounds with the AP2 I've noticed my scores are around 4-5 shots better with the AP2. They are particularly forgiving in the toe (as long as it isn't super high toe). I hit an 8 iron yesterday that felt mishit but ended up pin high on the green. I looked at the club and it had the mark on the grooves but a full ball out to the toe. I'd definitely go AP2 given you played MB/CB. It'll feel a bit less soft but save those mishits and still look almost identical at address.
    Titleist 915D2 10.5 w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 60S
    Titleist 917F2 16.5 w/ Aldila Rogue Black 70S
    Titleist 816H1 20* and 24* w/ Accra FX200H M4
    Titleist 718 AP2 4-PW AMT Tour White S300
    Vokey SM7 50F, 54F, and 58D w/ DG Tour Issue Onyx S400
    Bettinardi Kuchar Model 1 Armlock 42" (Testing)
    Pro V1x
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Advanced Members Posts: 2,900 ✭✭
    edited February 13

    MelloYello wrote:


    Nothing wrong with CBs at all. Very little difference IMO. Just gotta find what you like in terms of size, offset, sole width, etc.




    I do agree. Many players cavity back irons still look really great at address.



    I mean, a lot of Pros make pleeenntyyy of money using CB irons or bigger. I figure why am I making it harder on myself?



    Finding the right CB is going to be difficult. So much variation out there.




    Yeah, but OTOH, you'll get used to looking down at whatever you have given time. That's always the saving grace. I think the brain naturally adapts given that the goal is to hit a good shot. Subject to your abilities, you'll find how to put the club on the ball. So I think the question is two-fold:



    (1) How do you like to put the club on the ball?



    (2) How consistently can you manage the former?



    I never had a problem going back and forth when it came to smaller CBs. What it came down to was finding a CB small enough that I still felt I could release the same way. For instance, you can go directly from an MB to a CB but going all the way to an AP2 is another story. That's a fundamentally different club IMO and it requires you totally adjust.



    When I was comparing CBs to MBs or an MP-64 to an MP-4, there wasn't much "forgiveness" happening in the cavity club, at least not in terms of real improvement on the shot. The "forgiveness" I found was just in feel. The perimeter weight would just dampen the vibration. That was pretty much it. The exception might be in the 3- and 4-irons where a lot of sets start to create a thicker perimeter lip and a larger cavity which can both be welcome adjustments. I would much prefer to hit an MP-64 3-iron off the turf than say, an MP-4. No doubt about that!



    But in my experience, I'm going to hit a mid-iron blade as high (if not higher) than most alternatives because the club is small, the CG is therefore kind of low and the spin is relatively high. The 3-iron I may not strike perfectly flush but the 6- and 7-iron? Well...most of the time contact is pretty pure, I think. I'm not "worried about it." Let's say that.



    So in talking about the mid-irons I really wanted to keep my natural release which produced a shallow strike. Having come from blades, that's just what felt natural. By contrast, the AP2's I tried made me feel like I had to be steep on the ball--almost that they were designed to be hit kind of "punchy." That feel would work when I did it but it felt way different and almost "improper" so I bailed pretty quickly.



    If I were starting from scratch maybe it'd be better to learn with AP2's, you know? But having learned on an MB I kind of have to stick with what type of release feels proper. So when you talk about various pro's and what they play, take note that a lot of the blade guys like Tiger, Rory, & Rickie on the men's side and even Charley Hull on the LPGA, are the type who've just always played blades. Jimmy Walker, Webb Simpson and Adam Scott are still others who consistently opt for the MB. Even guys like DJ and Justin Rose have elected to stick with blades after tinkering around. Justin Thomas is another MB guy. He has an AP2 4i in the bag now but swapping out a long-iron or two is pretty common. I think right now Jason Day is also a blade guy through most of his set.



    Who are the CB guys? Jordan Spieth and Zach Johnson were always synonymous with the AP2. Bill Haas has a set this year I think. Brooks Koepka and John Rahm both favor a small forged CB. But I'd wager all those guys are probably using what they always did. You think Spieth changed to AP2 irons when he hit the PGA Tour? I don't know but I doubt it.



    Point is, it's hard to retreat from what you are. If you like blades, it's often just written in your DNA. No matter what "benefits" you might tell yourself you'll get with a cavity, you'll instinctively reach for the 8i you feel offers you the look and feedback you want. So if you're used to an MB 8i, that's probably what you'll stick with. To me, it was always a headache trying to get the short-irons "right" with a CB so I just said, **** it, I'm keeping my MBs and I'm not going to question it.



    I've gone to using T-MB long irons this year and so far, so good. They feel muted and solid like a CB and are really stable at impact as far as I can tell. If anything, they seem to have a flatter ball-flight so I'm thinking there's maybe a little less spin? But the ball does jump off the face and the flatter trajectory makes them even better off the tee which is where I use them most of the time. I'm not sure they really elevate the shot by a huge margin--probably just a little.



    What it came down to for me in the 6-Pw was that I'm shallow and my misses are thin. Therefore, an MB is not a bad option. I wasn't worried about being able to find the center of the club-face. That was going to happen as I got adjusted. I just wanted something I felt I was comfortable with and which freed me up to swing as I wanted to. Sure, I work on mechanics on the range. But that's big stuff. The feeling of how I release through the ball is pretty much ingrained at this point. I couldn't go out and hit a set of GI irons if I tried. It's just a different "skill" if that makes sense.



    So you're right, a lot of finding a good CB will come down to what looks and feels right.
    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.50)
    Fairway: TaylorMade RBZ Black (16.50)

    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (3-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52.12 (F) / 56.14 (F) / 60.10 (S)
    Putter: Odyssey O-Works 2-Ball Red
  • BiggErnBiggErn Advanced Members Posts: 1,993 ✭✭
    BiggErn wrote:

    Chew70 wrote:
    Obviously it's up to you but forgiveness is bs for the most part. I went from blades to gi back to blades because the truth is my scoring average didn't change over a 2 year period. A pure strike with a blade is the pure essence of golf. Period. You can say what you want but the facts are no iron, gi or blade, will matter in the long run. Play what want and what looks good at adress. Life is too short. Peace out.




    That’s why over 75% of pros play something other than MBs.






    is that random back pocket calculation accounting for all the Ping staffers flocking to the Blueprint MB ? lol




    No it’s a statistical fact and has been for a long time. Lol
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Advanced Members Posts: 24,219 ✭✭
    BiggErn wrote:

    BiggErn wrote:

    Chew70 wrote:
    Obviously it's up to you but forgiveness is bs for the most part. I went from blades to gi back to blades because the truth is my scoring average didn't change over a 2 year period. A pure strike with a blade is the pure essence of golf. Period. You can say what you want but the facts are no iron, gi or blade, will matter in the long run. Play what want and what looks good at adress. Life is too short. Peace out.




    That’s why over 75% of pros play something other than MBs.






    is that random back pocket calculation accounting for all the Ping staffers flocking to the Blueprint MB ? lol




    No it’s a statistical fact and has been for a long time. Lol




    Just referencing the 75%. Majority. Maybe. But closer to 55-45 split. Unless you’re trying to count any pro with a GI 3 iron etc.
    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    TM Tour 17 M1 14.5* Graphite Design AD DI 8X
    Ping i500 pre-production proto 3 iron Graphite Design AD DI 105X
    Ping i500 4-pw Modus 130X
    Ping Glide Forged 50 54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot
  • BiggErnBiggErn Advanced Members Posts: 1,993 ✭✭
    BiggErn wrote:

    BiggErn wrote:

    Chew70 wrote:
    Obviously it's up to you but forgiveness is bs for the most part. I went from blades to gi back to blades because the truth is my scoring average didn't change over a 2 year period. A pure strike with a blade is the pure essence of golf. Period. You can say what you want but the facts are no iron, gi or blade, will matter in the long run. Play what want and what looks good at adress. Life is too short. Peace out.




    That’s why over 75% of pros play something other than MBs.






    is that random back pocket calculation accounting for all the Ping staffers flocking to the Blueprint MB ? lol




    No it’s a statistical fact and has been for a long time. Lol




    Just referencing the 75%. Majority. Maybe. But closer to 55-45 split. Unless you’re trying to count any pro with a GI 3 iron etc.




    You’re not remotely close
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Advanced Members Posts: 24,219 ✭✭
    Love to see that list. Lol
    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    TM Tour 17 M1 14.5* Graphite Design AD DI 8X
    Ping i500 pre-production proto 3 iron Graphite Design AD DI 105X
    Ping i500 4-pw Modus 130X
    Ping Glide Forged 50 54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot
  • BiggErnBiggErn Advanced Members Posts: 1,993 ✭✭
    Love to see that list. Lol




    Google it. Any given week there is around 25-35% using MBs. That’s just the pga tour. I can imagine if you add all the professional tours it would be significantly lower.
  • jholzjholz Advanced Members Posts: 1,245 ✭✭
    I put up my '96 Hogan Apexes in 2004ish? and have gone to progressively more "techy" player's cb's.



    With some of more traditional, less "techy" CB irons - say the Titliest CBs or the lower number Mizuno MP CBs - I don't see that much difference between them and the modern MBs in terms of forgiveness and playing profile. When you get into the AP line, or the higher number MPs and JPX lines (and similar profile clubs), that's where the difference really lies in my opinion.



    All that being said, it seems like the OP has a really solid plan to execute. If I were going to go with a blended set that incorporated some MBs, I'm not sure I would cut it off at the 9i. For some reason PW or 8i seem like better options for whatever reason.



    In any event, I envy you for the club shopping that apparently lies in your future. Have a good time with the process!
    Cleveland Launcher HB 10.5* - Stock Miyazaki C. Kua 50 Stiff
    Callaway Diablo Octane Tour 13* - Aldila NV 75 Stiff
    or
    Callaway Diablo Edge Tour 15* - Accra Dymatch M5 75
    Mizuno F-50 18* - Stock Stiff
    or
    Callaway Diablo Edge Tour Hybrid 21* - Aldila NV 85 Stiff
    Callaway RAZR Tour Hybrid 24* - Stock XStiff
    5 - PW Cleveland CG7 Tour Black Pearl - DGSL S300
    Vokey Design 200 Series 52* Stock Wedge (?)
    Cleveland CG15 Oilcan 56* Stock Wedge
    Callaway X-Series JAWS Slate CC 58* Stock Wedge
    Odyssey White Ice #7 - Golf Pride Oversize
  • tgoodspe1991tgoodspe1991 Advanced Members Posts: 586 ✭✭
    Chew70 wrote:


    Obviously it's up to you but forgiveness is bs for the most part. I went from blades to gi back to blades because the truth is my scoring average didn't change over a 2 year period. A pure strike with a blade is the pure essence of golf. Period. You can say what you want but the facts are no iron, gi or blade, will matter in the long run. Play what want and what looks good at adress. Life is too short. Peace out.




    I don't look at it as black and white as "SGI means more forgiveness and blades don't have forgiveness". It all still comes down to strike. If you shank the ball then you're going to do that no matter what club you have on the ground.



    For me it's understanding what my general miss is, and that's a shot towards the toe. A true muscleback's COG tends to (for the vast majority of the time) be more towards the heel. So I get really bad drop-offs in distance when my miss comes into play. In a CB-type of iron there's more "tech" being done to relocate COG to the center of the face and distribute mass around the perimeter. It's not going to dramatically change my game because I will STILL miss shots towards the toe (that's my miss after all regardless of club), but if I can play a club that is designed to move more mass in that direction then perhaps that drop-off will be less severe or not as noticeable at all.



    It's about putting into perspective what "forgiveness" actually is in this game. It's more-so taking the proper compensations for your particular miss patterns.
    “Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated; it satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same
    time rewarding and maddening – and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented."
    - Arnold Palmer
  • ShakesterShakester Advanced Members Posts: 400 ✭✭
    I've played blades for as long as I can remember. Mizuno MP14's and 29's, Titleist Custom Grinds and 990B's. My last set were the Nike blades. After my golf hiatus, blades looked even smaller that I remember so I went with the Nike Vapor Pro Combos which were great irons. Slight larger than a blade with blade-like aesthetics. I do believe there is more forgiveness in a larger club face. The majority of my bad shots are off the toe. With a blade, I not only lost distance but my ball went straight right. With my P770's, shots off the toe still finds itself on the green or on the fringe.
    Taylormade M3 Driver (UST Mamiya Chrome Elements Stiff Shaft) 9.5
    Taylormade M2 3 Wood 15
    Taylormade M2 5 Wood 18
    Taylormade P770 Irons (4-PW)
    Titleist SM6 Vokey Wedges (50, 55 & 60)
    Titleist Newport Platinum Putter
    Taylormade TP5 Golf balls
  • tgoodspe1991tgoodspe1991 Advanced Members Posts: 586 ✭✭
    Shakester wrote:


    I've played blades for as long as I can remember. Mizuno MP14's and 29's, Titleist Custom Grinds and 990B's. My last set were the Nike blades. After my golf hiatus, blades looked even smaller that I remember so I went with the Nike Vapor Pro Combos which were great irons. Slight larger than a blade with blade-like aesthetics. I do believe there is more forgiveness in a larger club face. The majority of my bad shots are off the toe. With a blade, I not only lost distance but my ball went straight right. With my P770's, shots off the toe still finds itself on the green or on the fringe.




    That's sort of my predicament except often times my shots off the toe go the right shape and direct I am looking for but lose 10-15% distance. For me it's not a conversation of going to forgiving irons just blindly thinking I'm going to get help, it's about me going to irons with more "tech" in them that have purpose-built weight distribution that will benefit my particular misses. Which I think is the REAL conversation people need to have when they talk "forgiveness" -- will this club "forgive" my misses?
    “Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated; it satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same
    time rewarding and maddening – and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented."
    - Arnold Palmer
  • andrieddleandrieddle Advanced Members Posts: 1,792
    Let us know what set you end up with OP....curious to see that
    [font=comic sans ms,cursive]Cobra Fly Z+ (11)
    Cobra Bio Cell 4W (16)
    TaylorMade R15 4H (21)
    FourteeN TC 606 (5-P/A)

    Bridgestone J15 (50)
    Callaway MD2 (56/60)
    Odyssey EXO 7S
    [/font]
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