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I’m giving up Blades... sort of...

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  • manima1manima1 Chicago 736Members Posts: 736
    Joined:  #92
    tobiasjd wrote:


    I don't like switching at the 4i either. But there's just no way I can get anywhere near the same kind of ball flight that I get with a hybrid. Maybe if I experimented enough with shaft options, but that can get expensive.




    Perhaps the 7-series Srixons have a bit more "help" with the muscle/cavity to help get the ball up in a hurry than your i-blades. I'd be baggin the 3 as well however, I prefer having the driving iron 2 in that spot for added versatility at the top end.
    Posted:
    M5 9.0 - Kuro Kage Dual Core 80tx 
    '16 M2HL 16.8 tour issued deep faced - Fujikura 8.3 TS
    zU45 18 degree - S400
    z745 4-9 - S400
    SM6 46.08F - S400 Chrome
    SM6 50.08F - S400 Steel Gray
    SM7 54.10S - S400 Raw
    TM Hi-Toe 60.12ATV - S400 Black
    TM Spider X - Navy
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolina 28897Members Posts: 28,897
    Joined:  #93
    Balls deep-





    No doubt that tech is moving into all parts of the iron game. But you can’t call a spring faced iron a players anything. If it’s adding ball speed it’s game improvement. It’s not a knock. As I said. Currently playing a set myself. But we have to be honest about what is - is.



    I’ve played 2 versions of the ap2 712 and 716. They are GI . The long irons have more offset than many ping irons. The lofts are strong the face is welded on for a reason.



    People call Mb players dilusional. But this argument to me is far more dilusional than that can ever be. The players cb market has shrunk. That’s the bottom line. Mainly because theyy don’t offer much over a modern mb. That doesn’t mean we can start calling the smaller GI irons “ players cb”. Ap2 doesn’t really even have a pronounced cavity. The name doesn’t fit.



    Op may have an easier transition than I first thought. Originally I thought the Srixon iron was a forged face iron too.
    Posted:
    Ping G410  11.2* Tensei pro OrangeV2 proto 70TX 
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  3- PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged  54 60 s400
    Cameron GSS 1.5 009. Sound slot,  tungsten weights. 


  • tgoodspe1991tgoodspe1991 New England 922Members Posts: 922
    Joined:  #94
    I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there’s a whole spectrum of irons. It’s not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.



    My main point of this thread was that there’s a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player’s cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..



    I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn’t playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I’ve never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn’t saying “I’m going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!” No, I’m simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it’s time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player’s cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.



    The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.



    Also, forgiveness isn’t total BS. It’s why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that’s a bit ironic, isn’t it?
    Posted:
    “Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated; it satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same
    time rewarding and maddening – and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented."
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  • agolf1agolf1  1807Members Posts: 1,807
    Joined:  #95


    The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.


    I think the pros are doing this because they know the small advantage add up over time. Carrying a hazard on one slight mishit could be the difference in winning or losing. Or, saving a couple yards on distance/direction means you are putting from 10 feet closer, which has a lower expected number of shots. If you don't mishit the ball often, then I agree the amount of strokes saved per round is going to be very small. If you are just playing casually, you probably won't notice it.



    In contrast, many people here seem to only think there are 100% flushed shots and toe mishits so bad that nothing can save you. I'm nowhere near the level of player that many here are, but I think the issue is that no one vividly remembers the slight mishit that is still on the green but an extra 5-10 feet away (vs. what it could be or is with a more forgiving club).



    Honestly, I've never understood the "can't concentrate with anything but an MB," "I want the harsh feedback to improve," or "my best shots get worse with a CB," but I can't deny that these factors exist for some people.
    Posted:
    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    PING G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    PING Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    PING Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  PING Eye 2+ (58*) or PING Eye 2 XG (60*)
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolina 28897Members Posts: 28,897
    Joined:  #96


    I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there’s a whole spectrum of irons. It’s not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.



    My main point of this thread was that there’s a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player’s cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..



    I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn’t playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I’ve never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn’t saying “I’m going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!” No, I’m simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it’s time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player’s cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.



    The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.



    Also, forgiveness isn’t total BS. It’s why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that’s a bit ironic, isn’t it?




    First. I have to dispel that myth.

    At my count today 13 of the top 25 in the world ranking plays an mb. Of course nobody is discounting that 2-3 iron driving irons abound. Hardly a majority in fact technically a minority playing a cb. But let’s say even split to be fair enough. And I didn’t count bubba who went mb and now back to s55.





    And for the record. I hate all of the big clubs. 460cc driver. Mallet putters etc. lol. But I get that they offer things for sure and to compete we have to explore those things. Same with irons. I’m in that same path you are talking about.



    I’m just trying to tell you to lower your expectations. And be careful of fitment. You can go backwards much easier than forwards. And like I said. You’re choice is much less GI so probably a non issue swing wise as long as the weight and sole suit you. Originally I thought you were going to some of these irons which have a higher vertical cog. You have to adjust to hit those vs an mb. Those irons are to counter act a steep swing that balloons the ball. And you’ll find it takes a steep move to play them welll. That wa my cautionary tale. That’s all. Didn’t mean to get into the “ what’s a player improvement iron “ debate.



    Posted:
    Ping G410  11.2* Tensei pro OrangeV2 proto 70TX 
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  3- PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged  54 60 s400
    Cameron GSS 1.5 009. Sound slot,  tungsten weights. 


  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Minnesota, USA 6846Members Posts: 6,846
    Joined:  edited Feb 20, 2019 12:47pm #97
    manima1 wrote:

    tobiasjd wrote:


    I don't like switching at the 4i either. But there's just no way I can get anywhere near the same kind of ball flight that I get with a hybrid. Maybe if I experimented enough with shaft options, but that can get expensive.




    Perhaps the 7-series Srixons have a bit more "help" with the muscle/cavity to help get the ball up in a hurry than your i-blades. I'd be baggin the 3 as well however, I prefer having the driving iron 2 in that spot for added versatility at the top end.






    The difference in MOI between the 7 series and 9 series in Srixon irons is very small. I would term it insignificant. Some years, it's even non existant.
    Posted:
    The Ever Changing Bag!

    Driver: Golden Ram TW805, Precision 6.5, 43.25"
    3w:  Golden Ram 16*, Precision 6.5, 42"
    2i:  Mizuno Pro, DGS300
    3-PW:  Mizuno MP-37, DGS300
    2-PW:  Golden Ram Tour Grinds, Dynamic S
    GW:  Dynacraft forged 52*, DGS400 (not carried with Golden Rams)
    SW:  Wilson Staff PMP 58*
    Putter: Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35"
    Balls: in no particular order... Wilson Staff FG Tour, Duo Urethane/Professional, or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar, Snell MTB Black, Vice Pro Lime... will trot out Maxfli HT-100 or Elite 90 from time to time

    Driver Substitutes: Golden Ram TW801 or TW802, DGS300
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  • LUMALUMA I Am My Greatest Downfall St. Johns / Jacksonville Florida 2374Members Posts: 2,374
    Joined:  edited Feb 20, 2019 3:25pm #98
    Titleist CB's are great. Been playing them for a long time. Recently decided to switch to MB. I like knowing I will have nothing left to question except myself with the MB.



    For me, I would rather fix my toe shots than play an iron that gets better results with toe shots. Hitting out the toe is not the clubs fault, it's mine.



    That is the thing I feel that the player must decide. Do I want my club to fix the problem or do I want to fix the problem?
    Posted:
    Callaway Epic Sub Zero 9 deg / Aldila Rouge
    Titleist 915 F 15 deg / Diamana 70
    Callaway XR 19 deg Hybrid / Project X LZ S
    Titleist 718 MB PW-4i / Project X 6.0 
    Titleist Vokey SM5 50/54/58
    Scotty Cameron Newport 2.5
  • DevilDogDevilDog  1837Members Posts: 1,837
    Joined:  #99


    Word to the wise. Measure the swingweight and lie angles of your favorite mb. And only test an iron when you've added weight to the head to match that swingweight and adjusted for lie. Same or very very similar shaft helps too. Going whole hog and hitting a lighter head plus light shaft etc is a recipe to lose your swing. My opinion. For reference. My i500 pw measured E1 last week when I recordEd all specs.( 5/8 over with 130g shaft). Loads of lead tape. Most modern heads are a good bit lighter than an MB.




    Explains well the issue I have with most modern clubs. I prefer more weight in the head. One has to be cautious with head weight as you mentioned. Taking weight out makes face close faster and can cause hooks. Too much weight and face is harder to square.
    Posted:
  • anthanth From the Land Down Under  2783Members Posts: 2,783
    Joined:  #100
    If AP2 is GI, does that make AP1 SGI?



    I think most people would put the AP2 in the Player’s category. Based on profile, blade length and offset - all of which are designed to fit the “player’s” eye
    Posted:
    Callaway Rogue 10.5
    Callaway BB Alpha 816 16
    Srixon Z H45 19 Hybrid
    Srixon Z U45 23 Utility
    Srixon Z 765/965 5 - PW
    TaylorMade Milled Grind 50 & 54
    TaylorMade Milled Grind Hi Toe 58
    TaylorMade Spider Tour Red
    TaylorMade TP5
  • agolf1agolf1  1807Members Posts: 1,807
    Joined:  #101
    LUMA wrote:


    Titleist CB's are great. Been playing them for a long time. Recently decided to switch to MB. I like knowing I will have nothing left to question except myself with the MB.



    For me, I would rather fix my toe shots than play an iron that gets better results with toe shots. Hitting out the toe is not the clubs fault, it's mine.



    That is the thing I feel that the player must decide. Do I want my club to fix the problem or do I want to fix the problem?


    The guy is a +3.1 index. He has an infrequent miss just like many pros. I assume you've fixed things so well with the MBs that you never miss now.
    Posted:
    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    PING G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    PING Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    PING Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  PING Eye 2+ (58*) or PING Eye 2 XG (60*)
  • BiggErnBiggErn  2703Members Posts: 2,703
    Joined:  #102
    LUMA wrote:
    Titleist CB's are great. Been playing them for a long time. Recently decided to switch to MB. I like knowing I will have nothing left to question except myself with the MB.



    For me, I would rather fix my toe shots than play an iron that gets better results with toe shots. Hitting out the toe is not the clubs fault, it's mine.



    That is the thing I feel that the player must decide. Do I want my club to fix the problem or do I want to fix the problem?




    You’re assuming that if you hit a toe shot here and there then you do all of them. Lol. People understand they have a miss now and then and use equipment that somewhat allows for it. After years of playing golf I’m sure every person here playing MBs have it fixed by now.
    Posted:
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  • NoFancyUsername.NoFancyUsername.  495Members Posts: 495
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    I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there's a whole spectrum of irons. It's not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.



    My main point of this thread was that there's a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player's cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..



    I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn't playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I've never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn't saying "I'm going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!" No, I'm simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it's time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player's cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.



    The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.



    Also, forgiveness isn't total BS. It's why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that's a bit ironic, isn't it?




    A tour player with CB's shoots a 64 first round. Then 2nd round he fires a 75...... why?
    Posted:
  • BiggErnBiggErn  2703Members Posts: 2,703
    Joined:  #104


    I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there's a whole spectrum of irons. It's not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.



    My main point of this thread was that there's a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player's cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..



    I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn't playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I've never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn't saying "I'm going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!" No, I'm simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it's time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player's cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.



    The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.



    Also, forgiveness isn't total BS. It's why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that's a bit ironic, isn't it?




    A tour player with CB's shoots a 64 first round. Then 2nd round he fires a 75...... why?






    Almost guaranteed it wasn’t because he was mishitting his irons.
    Posted:
  • mmack067mmack067 Ottawa 729Members Posts: 729
    Joined:  #105



    I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there's a whole spectrum of irons. It's not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.



    My main point of this thread was that there's a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player's cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..



    I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn't playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I've never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn't saying "I'm going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!" No, I'm simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it's time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player's cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.



    The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.



    Also, forgiveness isn't total BS. It's why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that's a bit ironic, isn't it?




    A tour player with CB's shoots a 64 first round. Then 2nd round he fires a 75...... why?




    Regressing to the mean?



    Are you actually you’re suggesting that their ball striking changes overnight because they play CBs? Or are you just being sarcastic?
    Posted:
    Ping G400 LST - Copperhead 70TX
    Titleist TS2 15* - Whiteboard 70X
    Titleist 910H 17˚ -  Project X 7.0
    Srixon Z785 4i, Miura MC-501 5-PW - X100
    Vokey SM7 50F, 54S
    TM Milled Grind 58 SB
    Scotty Cameron Studio Stainless NP2

    Twitter-icon.png  lDLcKyO.png?1  


  • dciccorittidciccoritti An inch an hour, 2 feet a day Toronto, Canada 1689Members Posts: 1,689
    Joined:  #106



    I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there's a whole spectrum of irons. It's not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.



    My main point of this thread was that there's a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player's cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..



    I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn't playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I've never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn't saying "I'm going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!" No, I'm simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it's time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player's cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.



    The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.



    Also, forgiveness isn't total BS. It's why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that's a bit ironic, isn't it?




    A tour player with CB's shoots a 64 first round. Then 2nd round he fires a 75...... why?




    Good thing he didn't play blades or it would have been a 76 :-)
    Posted:

    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway

    • TS2
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  • BiggErnBiggErn  2703Members Posts: 2,703
    Joined:  #107
    What is the benefit in playing an MB if you don’t pure virtually every iron shot? Pretty much every player on tour regardless of club does this yet most don’t use MBs.
    Posted:
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  • BearQBearQ  3667Members Posts: 3,667
    Joined:  edited Feb 20, 2019 9:17pm #108
    I attest to only being comfortable with blades semi-permanently because the tech has moved into them. My model specifically - the legendary z945. Has v sole + tungsten in the long irons. Its a longer blade length and just an all time great iron.



    If I was playing something inferior I would still be going back and forth to players CB like OP is



    If you find something like the z945, truly play them till they wear out. Im going on year 3 on my set and sitting comfortably for 3+ more



    Lastly, nearly everyone can benefit from help in the 4/5i
    Posted:



  • cliffhangercliffhanger spruce grove alberta 1761ClubWRX Posts: 1,761
    Joined:  #109

    MelloYello wrote:


    Nothing wrong with CBs at all. Very little difference IMO. Just gotta find what you like in terms of size, offset, sole width, etc.




    I do agree. Many players cavity back irons still look really great at address.



    I mean, a lot of Pros make pleeenntyyy of money using CB irons or bigger. I figure why am I making it harder on myself?



    Finding the right CB is going to be difficult. So much variation out there.
    Honestly when i practiced on a regular basis there was no concerns with the MP 18 blades. When i got lazy and reduced my practice time i started to find issues with consistent strikes. So this year i had to make a decision, either keep the blades or move to a players cavity back. I moved on from the MP's however i am also not sure where to look for my new set. The Apex Pro's and the AP2's are high on the list.
    Posted:


    Driver: TM M6 (10.5 deg) with Project X Smoke 60X playing at 45 inches
    3Wood: TM M6 (14 deg) with Project X Smoke 70X playing at 43 inches
    2 iron: TM 790 UDI bent to 19 degrees with Project X HZRDUS 85 X (6.5) at 39.5 inches
    4-GW: TM P760 with KBS Tour X (all bent 2 deg flat) standard length
    Wedges: TM Hi-Toe 56/10 and 60/10 (all bent 2 deg flat) with 2.0 hi-rev shafts both standard lengths
    TM Mullen 2 TP putter @ 34 inches 
    TM TP 5 ball 

     All grips 360 tour velvet burgundy with 1 extra wrap

    Sun mountain 4.5 stand bag

  • rxk9fanrxk9fan Midwest 861Members Posts: 861
    Joined:  #110
    Just another comment from an older guy who is not as good as the OP so I am probably just talking.

    As for the Srixon U, the look, feel, and performance of these things are something that I think the vast majority of golfers would appreciate. A little harder to work than say a blade or true players CB but a LOT harder to hit a bad shot with. I often see the phrase here saying something "is money"....these things are money.

    I have decided that I can hit about anything from 7i through my wedges and I can certainly hit my U65 3i and 4i. That only leaves the 6i and 5i for me to have to give any thought to. After owning 8 sets of irons in the last 18 months, my final thoughts are with the right shaft I have not found anything I can't play in the 6i and 5i. I am working on grabbing a set of Z945 to test that one last time so we will see.

    As far as preference, I think the OP will have issues only with (obviously good enough to play anything):

    1. Something that looks too big (shovels or even semi-shovels can be tough with the touch shots if use to a small head).

    2. Something that you can't feel where the ball strikes on the club (good players rely on this sometimes more than they think)

    MOST IMPORTANT: I think the OP would hate something that will not give him the consistency in distance he is use to!!



    I think a smaller CB would serve him well but only time will tell if it helps him meet his goals. Great choices:

    Srixon Z7xx, Mizuno MP18 SC or MMC, Cobra MB/CB combo, Titleist CB (though to me was zero different from the MB).

    Good luck and enjoy the quest!
    Posted:
    Taylormade M5 driver with Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited stiff 
    Taylormade M4 tour 3 wood with Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited stiff
    Taylormade M4 tour 5 wood with Tensei Blue stiff
    Taylormade M6 Rescue 19 degree with Atmos orange stiff
    Taylormade P790 5i with Recoil 95 F4 shaft
    Taylormade P770 6i-AW with Recoil 95 F4 shafts
    Taylormade Hi Toe 54 and 58 with KBS
    Taylormade Spider X

    First single OEM I have played and love it
  • Man_O_WarMan_O_War  3170Members Posts: 3,170
    Joined:  #111
    bodhi555 wrote:


    I've had a couple of rounds this winter where I've been playing abroad so had some rentals on the way round rather than the trusty VR Pros, and I was genuinely interested to see the difference in my game. I had 2 rounds with AP3's and 3 with AP2's, all fitted with S300 shafts, so similar to my configuration at home, if not quite identical.



    Wasn't a huge fan of the feel (or lack of), but could have coped with that if there were night and day performance differences between the two, but I can honestly say there weren't. AP3's traveled as far as my VR Pros, the AP2's were a club short, and for trying to control ball flight they were less than ideal - just wanted to go straight and high. A couple of times I wanted ot hit a fade round a tree, both times the ball carried straight, and punching out of trees required going up a few clubs on the VR Pros.



    I wouldn't swap for all the tees in China, but fair play if you think it will help you enjoy the game more.






    you captured why i have not been able to use CBs for any longer than a week. No feel..clumsy through the ball..but i also think it has a lot to do with what one starts using to learn the game .
    Posted:
    Cobra F9 Camo/LTD PRO/LTD BLACK  Matrix F6M2/Project X LZ 6.0 71g HC/ 
    Cobra LTD 3/4 Kai'li 80
    Cobra LTD 4/5 Kai'li 80
    TM Mid_Rescue TP 22*
    Srixon Z-Forged 120x 4-pw
    RTX 3.0 50, 54, 60 Modus 125
    TM Spider DJ Sightline Black Tour Spider 
  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Minnesota, USA 6846Members Posts: 6,846
    Joined:  #112
    Man_O_War wrote:

    bodhi555 wrote:


    I've had a couple of rounds this winter where I've been playing abroad so had some rentals on the way round rather than the trusty VR Pros, and I was genuinely interested to see the difference in my game. I had 2 rounds with AP3's and 3 with AP2's, all fitted with S300 shafts, so similar to my configuration at home, if not quite identical.



    Wasn't a huge fan of the feel (or lack of), but could have coped with that if there were night and day performance differences between the two, but I can honestly say there weren't. AP3's traveled as far as my VR Pros, the AP2's were a club short, and for trying to control ball flight they were less than ideal - just wanted to go straight and high. A couple of times I wanted ot hit a fade round a tree, both times the ball carried straight, and punching out of trees required going up a few clubs on the VR Pros.



    I wouldn't swap for all the tees in China, but fair play if you think it will help you enjoy the game more.






    you captured why i have not been able to use CBs for any longer than a week. No feel..clumsy through the ball..but i also think it has a lot to do with what one starts using to learn the game .






    Iron clubhead size has been one of my personal decision points, for lack of a better term. Similar to how some hate offset, or have issues with smaller clubheads, I have problems with larger clubheads. Always feel like I can't get them on the ball properly, I'll only be able to hit them thin. Was a large part of my adjustment to playing Eye2+, they looked enormous behind the ball. The ISI were an easier transition.



    Wish I scored better with them, I wouldn't have to worry as much about rocks in the soil as I do with my various Ram Tour Grinds.
    Posted:
    The Ever Changing Bag!

    Driver: Golden Ram TW805, Precision 6.5, 43.25"
    3w:  Golden Ram 16*, Precision 6.5, 42"
    2i:  Mizuno Pro, DGS300
    3-PW:  Mizuno MP-37, DGS300
    2-PW:  Golden Ram Tour Grinds, Dynamic S
    GW:  Dynacraft forged 52*, DGS400 (not carried with Golden Rams)
    SW:  Wilson Staff PMP 58*
    Putter: Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35"
    Balls: in no particular order... Wilson Staff FG Tour, Duo Urethane/Professional, or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar, Snell MTB Black, Vice Pro Lime... will trot out Maxfli HT-100 or Elite 90 from time to time

    Driver Substitutes: Golden Ram TW801 or TW802, DGS300
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  • BottleCapBottleCap  1473Members Posts: 1,473
    Joined:  #113
    anth wrote:


    If AP2 is GI, does that make AP1 SGI?



    I think most people would put the AP2 in the Player's category. Based on profile, blade length and offset - all of which are designed to fit the "player's" eye




    They're driving irons.



    I used to have two of the 718 AP2s in the 3 and 4 iron with the light weight AMT S300 shafts and they were a poor man's driving iron.
    Posted:
    Titleist TS2 GD TourAD DI 7S  or  Taylormade M5 Diamana DF 70 S
    Titleist 917 F3 GD TourAD IZ 8S
    Mizuno MP-18 MMC 3-4 DG AMT S300
    Mizuno MP-18 5-PW DG S400
    Vokey SM7 54S and 60M
    Cameron Newport 2 CT
    Bridgestone Tour B XS
  • avguyavguy Replacement Player Sonoran Desert, AZ 1079Members Posts: 1,079
    Joined:  edited Feb 21, 2019 11:22am #114
    Many of us begin our shopping & comparisons for irons online (esp. wrx), some complete it.



    With that, I wanted to give a shout out for recent advances by Mizuno & Taylormade in providing blade measures for their current lines other than the standard Loft/Lie & Offsets.



    TM is giving us their top line lengths for the P & M series in mm; Mizuno does that plus top line & sole widths on the euro site with a blade compare table.



    The more of this available from all OEMs plus archive models, the much easier these iron choices are helped at least visually in the apples-to-oranges.
    Posted:
    BAG ONE:                                                                                                                     BAG TWO:
    D-Titleist 917 D2  or 910 D2                                                                                           D-Srixon Z355 
    3-TM RBZ ts                                                                                                                   3-TM R11ti
    H-Titleist 915 H1 17, Titleist 816  H1 21, Bridgestone Precept ECU 25                        H-TM 2.0 SF 18 & 21, Cobra AC 25
    I - Honma TW727M or Callaway R MBs                                                                         I - TM M5 or P790
    W- Mizuno 52, Vokey SM6 58                                                                                       W- Mizuno 53, & 58
    P-Bellum Winmore Midi  787                                                                                         P-Guerin TS Black 370

  • JAMH03JAMH03  979Members Posts: 979
    Joined:  #115

    MelloYello wrote:


    Nothing wrong with CBs at all. Very little difference IMO. Just gotta find what you like in terms of size, offset, sole width, etc.




    I do agree. Many players cavity back irons still look really great at address.



    I mean, a lot of Pros make pleeenntyyy of money using CB irons or bigger. I figure why am I making it harder on myself?



    Finding the right CB is going to be difficult. So much variation out there.




    Might be beneficial to measure where you're at and where you think you can gain presumably those 2 things would be GIR and PROXIMITY with your iron play never the less I think it makes sense to do BEFORE you change for a one year CB experiment



    Spin, traj control, variance etc all other wise we're just stabbing in the dark.



    Perfect example is one year I played 90 rounds after the season was over I was able to check my stats and concluded that I still missed too many greens because I tried to divide my greens into quadrants vs thirds. Since then I have aimed at bigger targets and increased my GIR's



    I'm a single digit but far from a 3 and I can comfortably play almost any 6iron blade and on up so in a case like yours you may only be talking about 2-3 irons in CB vs irons you probably hit very well.



    Measure twice cut once.
    Posted:

     



  • dubbelbogeydubbelbogey  478Members Posts: 478
    Joined:  #116
    JAMH03 wrote:




    I'm a single digit but far from a 3 and I can comfortably play almost any 6iron blade and on up so in a case like yours you may only be talking about 2-3 irons in CB vs irons you probably hit very well.






    And this is a great nuance that is often left out of these conversations. With mixed/combo sets being more the norm than not these days, it's not too uncommon to see a bag with 6-PW or 5-PW in blades, and the longer clubs are hollow-body driving irons or hybrids.
    Posted:
  • Man_O_WarMan_O_War  3170Members Posts: 3,170
    Joined:  #117

    JAMH03 wrote:


    I'm a single digit but far from a 3 and I can comfortably play almost any 6iron blade and on up so in a case like yours you may only be talking about 2-3 irons in CB vs irons you probably hit very well.






    And this is a great nuance that is often left out of these conversations. With mixed/combo sets being more the norm than not these days, it's not too uncommon to see a bag with 6-PW or 5-PW in blades, and the longer clubs are hollow-body driving irons or hybrids.




    no one said anything about hitting a blade 1 iron lol.
    Posted:
    Cobra F9 Camo/LTD PRO/LTD BLACK  Matrix F6M2/Project X LZ 6.0 71g HC/ 
    Cobra LTD 3/4 Kai'li 80
    Cobra LTD 4/5 Kai'li 80
    TM Mid_Rescue TP 22*
    Srixon Z-Forged 120x 4-pw
    RTX 3.0 50, 54, 60 Modus 125
    TM Spider DJ Sightline Black Tour Spider 
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  • JAMH03JAMH03  979Members Posts: 979
    Joined:  edited Feb 23, 2019 12:03pm #118
    [quote name='tgoodspe1991' timestamp='1550677755' post='18683502']

    I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there's a whole spectrum of irons. It's not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.



    My main point of this thread was that there's a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player's cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..



    I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn't playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I've never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn't saying "I'm going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!" No, I'm simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it's time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player's cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.



    The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.



    Also, forgiveness isn't total BS. It's why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that's a bit ironic, isn't it?


    [/quote]



    OK sure, but it we're really going to take this on don't we need to know what the difference between your game and the (tour) players you're comparing yourself to?



    I absolutely saw that you're a +3 but tour players are what +5's? So even if those 2 things are true... Is is really the fall off of your high toe misses that are causing the discrepancy of 2 strokes in 1:4 rounds or whatever? I'm no longer the pope of slope wanna be I once was.



    Without better #'s I think it makes sense to question that your mid iron misses are impacting your scores that much?



    3 examples:



    Typically elite level players separate themselves with their long games do they not?



    Secondarily how does your game compare to tour level players on the GIR's that you do hit? Putting have you compared your short putting, lag putting



    Tertiary how well do you chip around the greens? I once read that TW from within 10 yards was 90% up and down conversion rate. So even if he's an outlier, surly he was, what would tour normal be vs where you're at?



    I'm the last one to say don't try to buy a better game or exercise every opp to enjoy your life more. But I'd like to think I'm among the 1st to ask are you buying something that will make a difference? Is this solution solving the problem you're trying to solve?



    Thoughts anyone?
    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on

     



  • BottleCapBottleCap  1473Members Posts: 1,473
    Joined:  #119
    JAMH03 wrote:


    [quote name='tgoodspe1991' timestamp='1550677755' post='18683502']

    I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there's a whole spectrum of irons. It's not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.



    My main point of this thread was that there's a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player's cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..



    I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn't playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I've never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn't saying "I'm going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!" No, I'm simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it's time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player's cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.



    The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.



    Also, forgiveness isn't total BS. It's why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that's a bit ironic, isn't it?





    OK sure, but it we're really going to take this on don't we need to know what the difference between your game and the (tour) players you're comparing yourself to?



    I absolutely saw that you're a +3 but tour players are what +5's? So even if those 2 things are true... Is is really the fall off of your high toe misses that are causing the discrepancy of 2 strokes in 1:4 rounds or whatever? I'm no longer the pope of slope wanna be I once was.



    Without better #'s I think it makes sense to question that your mid iron misses are impacting your scores that much?



    3 examples:



    Typically elite level players separate themselves with their long games do they not?



    Secondarily how does your game compare to tour level players on the GIR's that you do hit? Putting have you compared your short putting, lag putting



    Tertiary how well do you chip around the greens? I once read that TW from within 10 yards was 90% up and down conversion rate. So even if he's an outlier, surly he was, what would tour normal be vs where you're at?



    I'm the last one to say don't try to buy a better game or exercise every opp to enjoy your life more. But I'd like to think I'm among the 1st to ask are you buying something that will make a difference? Is this solution solving the problem you're trying to solve?



    Thoughts anyone?


    [/quote]



    I'd like to see a video of his swing

    Posted:
    Titleist TS2 GD TourAD DI 7S  or  Taylormade M5 Diamana DF 70 S
    Titleist 917 F3 GD TourAD IZ 8S
    Mizuno MP-18 MMC 3-4 DG AMT S300
    Mizuno MP-18 5-PW DG S400
    Vokey SM7 54S and 60M
    Cameron Newport 2 CT
    Bridgestone Tour B XS
  • tannyhobantannyhoban  1937Members Posts: 1,937
    Joined:  #120


    I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there's a whole spectrum of irons. It's not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.



    My main point of this thread was that there's a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player's cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..



    I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn't playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I've never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn't saying "I'm going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!" No, I'm simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it's time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player's cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.



    The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.



    Also, forgiveness isn't total BS. It's why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that's a bit ironic, isn't it?




    Go for it. I think you'll find that overall weight and visual setup are far more important. But you'll never know until you try.



    Putting is totally different than selecting irons, no irony to be found playing blades and putting with a mallet.
    Posted:
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  • JAMH03JAMH03  979Members Posts: 979
    Joined:  #121
    "I'd like to see a video of his swing."



    TannyHoban,



    Great point.



    Seems like this thread is a bit slippery for me in terms of getting to the gist of the matter.
    • What is the problem we're trying to solve?
    • Are we talking about getting new irons just for fun?
    • Are we giving up being PGA, Euro or Challenge tour driven?" and just going to symbolize that with new sticks?




    Shout out to my YT guys! Blair M and my main Tour Driven dude!





    It's in my nature to want to HELP sometimes it works better for me if I just take everyone at face value and then try to parse the details.



    BUT that's all OK



    I do have some salient "side loading" opinions that make this fun for me.



    #1 while checking Padraig Harringtons(sp) and Tiger Woods in the bags awhile back I thought I noticed both of them had a CB/GI version of a 4iron in their bags now?



    So if it makes sense for them in their early 40's, then I clearly don't need to try and worry about going back and forth with my 4 iron from my set and I ought to just rock my 23º hybrid with pride! Tour edge/Nippon Baby!



    Which is the point i was tried so awkwardly to make above:



    The OP is a legit +3 in that case we may only be talking about the 3/4/5/6 irons at most, where he is likely paying for his hi-toe miss.



    Secondarily, to me +1K $ Euros lbs, or dollars and a year of time seems like an expensive way to POSSIBLY attack a problem that may or may effect scoring at all.



    When doing nothing or subbing a couple of mid long irons might do the same job faster and for less $$$ and irreplaceable time?



    What kind of cyber-friend would I be if I didn't question that sort of thing?



    Never the less I very much sympathize with the OP it's just that I look at it even more stringently than most.



    If Calcavechia can win the Open with Eye2's or if Lietzke RIP can forgo typical levels of PGA practice and make a playing career of not trying to improve but just repeat his swing, then... Why would I care 2 beans about which blades offer the most control?



    As always





    Just

    A

    My

    Humble

    Opinion
    Posted:

     



9

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