Quick question- How many are using new OB and Lost Ball Local Rule E-5??

Hi. We play often at resort courses in Hawaii. From what I can tell they have not instituted this new additional option for OB and lost balls (2 stroke penalty and drop nearest point in fairway, etc). I was wondering how many who read this play courses where this is being utilized?? Or not. Or decide to use the rule in their local game, etc. The USGA rule says that course local committee should make the determination, etc. Thanks much.

Hi. We play often at resort courses in Hawaii. From what I can tell they have not instituted this new additional option for OB and lost balls (2 stroke penalty and drop nearest point in fairway, etc). I was wondering how many who read this play courses where this is being utilized?? Or not. Or decide to use the rule in their local game, etc. The USGA rule says that course local committee should make the determination, etc. Thanks much.

Sawgrass, interesting, it’s February, and you’re “probable”, we’re unknown. You’d think most courses would have analyzed this and been ready to proceed or not on Jan 1. The other interesting thing is the rule says it wouldn’t be used in “professional or elite competition.” We’re neither, but I get the feeling there is resistance to using this even in many clubs with lots of high handicappers playing monthly events, etc. Curious what’s happening around the country.

I've played very few courses that care about local rules. You pay your money and they hand you the keys to the cart and point you to the first tee. Your group is the committee.

Leo, totally agree with the key at most places. In the past, many of the courses here had local rules on the scorecard, which would be great for clarifying this. My main concern is several courses have removed hazard stakes on many holes, so now lost balls happen all the time. More than originally intended. So the new rule would be great to speed things up, etc.

Sawgrass, interesting, it's February, and you're "probable", we're unknown. You'd think most courses would have analyzed this and been ready to proceed or not on Jan 1. The other interesting thing is the rule says it wouldn't be used in "professional or elite competition." We're neither, but I get the feeling there is resistance to using this even in many clubs with lots of high handicappers playing monthly events, etc. Curious what's happening around the country.

I write the Local Rules for the municipal course's scorecard, and the executive director has indicated that he'll probably use the new LR, but hasn't told me that he's sure (though he may be). I am on the Men's Club rules committee and have won agreement not to use the LR in our events. So that's an explanation as to the divergence.

As to who should actually be using the LR, the preamble to Local Rule E-5 says in part:

The Local Rule is appropriate for general play where golfers are playing casual rounds or playing their own competitions. The Local Rule is not appropriate for competitions limited to highly skilled players (that is, professional competitions and elite amateur competitions). For guidance on when and how this Local Rule may be used in order for scores to be submitted for handicapping purposes, consult the rules or recommendations contained within the Handicap System operating in the local jurisdiction.

Where a Committee has introduced such a Local Rule for general play, and removes it for competitions, it should ensure that all players are aware of this before play begins.

I note that there is a "hole" in the recommendation provided by the RBs. Casual rounds: Yes. Highly skilled players: No. But there is no specific recommendation for low/mid skilled players playing in formal competitions. We opted against the LR for all of our competitions in part because there are some in which hacks are competing directly with highly skilled players, and we didn't want to give us hacks, who might benefit from the rule, an advantage over the skilled guys, who were almost completely unlikely to gain anything from it vs. a provisional they might hit.

Thanks Sawgrass. Sorry, I used to live in Florida, and automatically assumed you were from Jacksonville area near the island green course. Anyway, great points, I hadn’t considered the advantage to high handicappers who might have jacked several balls OB in a local tournament and carded 8s or much higher without that rule. Curious to see what others are doing around the country.

Our club won't be using it and I heard the other day the other 36-hole club around here won't be using it either. That leaves two 18-hole clubs and two 9-hole clubs in the region that might, or might not use it.

Leo, totally agree with the key at most places. In the past, many of the courses here had local rules on the scorecard, which would be great for clarifying this. My main concern is several courses have removed hazard stakes on many holes, so now lost balls happen all the time. More than originally intended. So the new rule would be great to speed things up, etc.

I never recall seeing a local rule about DMD when local rule was needed to use them within the rules. Therefore, I don't expect to see many courses with local rules regarding these new changes.

Leo, totally agree with the key at most places. In the past, many of the courses here had local rules on the scorecard, which would be great for clarifying this. My main concern is several courses have removed hazard stakes on many holes, so now lost balls happen all the time. More than originally intended. So the new rule would be great to speed things up, etc.

 

I never recall seeing a local rule about DMD when local rule was needed to use them within the rules. Therefore, I don't expect to see many courses with local rules regarding these new changes.

Very different to courses here then.

And here

These are all resort courses with pace of play often horrendous to start with. The new local OB/lost ball rules would be perfect. At Kapalua Plantation course, the scorecard has local rules such as playing everything off course as lateral (including lost balls hit into junk), so it's all simplified, with rare OB areas. But some other courses now have undefined areas which end up being 10 minute ball hunts (yeah, not 3 minutes that I see), with re-loads or provisionals, would be perfect for the Lost Ball, 2 stroke, fairway or other drop rule.

https://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/kapaluaresortplantat/actual.htm

Our men's club will be using the local rule for all events other than our Club Championship and Sr. Club Championship. Took three meetings and a relatively close vote to hash it out.

My club and many of the surrounding clubs will not be using the local rule. In fact, I’ve played a few rounds outside my area recently and checked the scorecards to see what local rules were in effect and nada.

I think establishing a local rule like this will be more of an exception vs the rule (pun intended!)

I guess, for USA, I don’t understand all this “checking the card” for local rules. If you’re in a formal competition, the committee should post any LR’s in effect and these can directly contradict what the scorecard says.

In a casual round, with 1 or more friends, you can set your own local rules for the day. You become your own committee.

Every local rule makes the game easier to play. Put enough local rules into play, and your handicap will be a vanity cap.

I really only check local rules on the card to see if they have put out drop areas on certain holes or where they define OB.

 

 

I really only check local rules on the card to see if they have put out drop areas on certain holes or where they define OB.

I only wish that drop zones were consistently presented on the scorecard. I recall a few situations playing resort courses where I dunked one, dropped back on the line, and stumbled across a nicely-located DZ on my walk to the green.

As a former golfer, I don't care for the new local rule. I'm old, get off my lawn!

As a course manager/professional, I am excited to put the new local rules into effect as soon as we open in the Spring. I have a difficult course, and pace of play is always an issue. Also, I have no homes surrounding our property. Almost everything that was formerly marked as out of bounds will become penalty areas. All penalty areas will be Red. My only OB will be barbed wire fences on two or three holes, and a highway that borders one hole. I'm anxious to see how much our pace improves on busy days.

I asked about it at our club a few months ago, they were still discussing. No real OB but lots of high grass that basically is OB. Obviously for stroke competitions (club championship, qualifiers, tournaments, etc) it makes sense to not have it, although I think it would be fine for the net flights of the club championship, since basically all you win the sandbagger label for a year. But for things like member-guest and every day play, I don't know why they wouldn't apply the LR? It won't impact handicaps, it will speed up play.

As a former golfer, I don't care for the new local rule. I'm old, get off my lawn!

 

As a course manager/professional, I am excited to put the new local rules into effect as soon as we open in the Spring. I have a difficult course, and pace of play is always an issue. Also, I have no homes surrounding our property. Almost everything that was formerly marked as out of bounds will become penalty areas. All penalty areas will be Red. My only OB will be barbed wire fences on two or three holes, and a highway that borders one hole. I'm anxious to see how much our pace improves on busy days.

As a former golfer, I don't care for the new local rule. I'm old, get off my lawn!

 

As a course manager/professional, I am excited to put the new local rules into effect as soon as we open in the Spring. I have a difficult course, and pace of play is always an issue. Also, I have no homes surrounding our property. Almost everything that was formerly marked as out of bounds will become penalty areas. All penalty areas will be Red. My only OB will be barbed wire fences on two or three holes, and a highway that borders one hole. I'm anxious to see how much our pace improves on busy days.

We jumped on E-5 at 8 am on January 2 (closed on January 1). Every comment thus far has been positive.

Course marking got an update in January, too:

1) All former yellow and red water hazards are now red-staked penalty areas.

2) Two additional penalty areas created . . . both behind a couple of greens where a ball could be lost and E-5 wouldn't have offered a useful solution.

3) Many, many white stakes retired. We now only protect private property backyards (there are only a few), the tennis courts, and the maintenance complex. All bordering wooded areas are left unmarked . . . E-5 is the ticket.

As a former golfer, I don't care for the new local rule. I'm old, get off my lawn!

 

As a course manager/professional, I am excited to put the new local rules into effect as soon as we open in the Spring. I have a difficult course, and pace of play is always an issue. Also, I have no homes surrounding our property. Almost everything that was formerly marked as out of bounds will become penalty areas. All penalty areas will be Red. My only OB will be barbed wire fences on two or three holes, and a highway that borders one hole. I'm anxious to see how much our pace improves on busy days.

Do you use the barbed wire to keep players in, or out?

LOL, maybe dairy cows!

As a former golfer, I don't care for the new local rule. I'm old, get off my lawn!

 

As a course manager/professional, I am excited to put the new local rules into effect as soon as we open in the Spring. I have a difficult course, and pace of play is always an issue. Also, I have no homes surrounding our property. Almost everything that was formerly marked as out of bounds will become penalty areas. All penalty areas will be Red. My only OB will be barbed wire fences on two or three holes, and a highway that borders one hole. I'm anxious to see how much our pace improves on busy days.

 

We jumped on E-5 at 8 am on January 2 (closed on January 1). Every comment thus far has been positive.

 

Course marking got an update in January, too:

1) All former yellow and red water hazards are now red-staked penalty areas.

2) Two additional penalty areas created . . . both behind a couple of greens where a ball could be lost and E-5 wouldn't have offered a useful solution.

3) Many, many white stakes retired. We now only protect private property backyards (there are only a few), the tennis courts, and the maintenance complex. All bordering wooded areas are left unmarked . . . E-5 is the ticket.

Very happy to be on the same page as you!

As a former golfer, I don't care for the new local rule. I'm old, get off my lawn!

 

As a course manager/professional, I am excited to put the new local rules into effect as soon as we open in the Spring. I have a difficult course, and pace of play is always an issue. Also, I have no homes surrounding our property. Almost everything that was formerly marked as out of bounds will become penalty areas. All penalty areas will be Red. My only OB will be barbed wire fences on two or three holes, and a highway that borders one hole. I'm anxious to see how much our pace improves on busy days.

Do you use the barbed wire to keep players in, or out?

 

LOL, maybe dairy cows!

Clearly to keep out the cows!!! :lol: :D :lol:

 

 

We jumped on E-5 at 8 am on January 2 (closed on January 1). Every comment thus far has been positive.

 

Course marking got an update in January, too:

1) All former yellow and red water hazards are now red-staked penalty areas.

2) Two additional penalty areas created . . . both behind a couple of greens where a ball could be lost and E-5 wouldn't have offered a useful solution.

3) Many, many white stakes retired. We now only protect private property backyards (there are only a few), the tennis courts, and the maintenance complex. All bordering wooded areas are left unmarked . . . E-5 is the ticket.

 

Very happy to be on the same page as you!

 

As a former golfer, I don't care for the new local rule. I'm old, get off my lawn!

 

As a course manager/professional, I am excited to put the new local rules into effect as soon as we open in the Spring. I have a difficult course, and pace of play is always an issue. Also, I have no homes surrounding our property. Almost everything that was formerly marked as out of bounds will become penalty areas. All penalty areas will be Red. My only OB will be barbed wire fences on two or three holes, and a highway that borders one hole. I'm anxious to see how much our pace improves on busy days.

Do you use the barbed wire to keep players in, or out?

 

LOL, maybe dairy cows!

 

Clearly to keep out the cows!!! :lol: :D :lol:

As a former golfer, I don't care for the new local rule. I'm old, get off my lawn!

 

As a course manager/professional, I am excited to put the new local rules into effect as soon as we open in the Spring. I have a difficult course, and pace of play is always an issue. Also, I have no homes surrounding our property. Almost everything that was formerly marked as out of bounds will become penalty areas. All penalty areas will be Red. My only OB will be barbed wire fences on two or three holes, and a highway that borders one hole. I'm anxious to see how much our pace improves on busy days.

I’m willing to bet that even with all the rule changes that were suppposed to speed play, in the end we will see no real dramatic effect.

1) Flag in/flag out: still scratching my head as to how we’re saving time by 4 golfers being able to decide flag in/flag out on EVERY putt

2) 3 min rule: uhm ok, we can all do the math but most amateurs will not be timing themselves or others and time saved will be negligible

3) OB and lost ball rule: always amazes me how many amateurs out there have always thought this WAS the rule?

Just wondering, have the R&A or the USGA come up with any estimates abt exactly how much time some of these new rules will save on an average round? Would love to hear that one.

As a former golfer, I don't care for the new local rule. I'm old, get off my lawn!

 

As a course manager/professional, I am excited to put the new local rules into effect as soon as we open in the Spring. I have a difficult course, and pace of play is always an issue. Also, I have no homes surrounding our property. Almost everything that was formerly marked as out of bounds will become penalty areas. All penalty areas will be Red. My only OB will be barbed wire fences on two or three holes, and a highway that borders one hole. I'm anxious to see how much our pace improves on busy days.

 

I'm willing to bet that even with all the rule changes that were suppposed to speed play, in the end we will see no real dramatic effect.

 

1) Flag in/flag out: still scratching my head as to how we're saving time by 4 golfers being able to decide flag in/flag out on EVERY putt

2) 3 min rule: uhm ok, we can all do the math but most amateurs will not be timing themselves or others and time saved will be negligible

3) OB and lost ball rule: always amazes me how many amateurs out there have always thought this WAS the rule

 

Just wondering, have the R&A or the USGA come up with any estimates abt exactly how much time some of these new rules will save on an average round? Would love to hear that one.

I think your conclusion is right on.

1) If a foursome doesn't wish to use the new option of keeping the flagstick in, it won't improve their pace.

2) If a foursome chooses to not follow the change to 3 minutes, it won't improve their pace.

3) If a foursome chose, or chooses to not understand or follow the rules of golf, the new rules won't improve their pace.

As a former golfer, I don't care for the new local rule. I'm old, get off my lawn!

 

As a course manager/professional, I am excited to put the new local rules into effect as soon as we open in the Spring. I have a difficult course, and pace of play is always an issue. Also, I have no homes surrounding our property. Almost everything that was formerly marked as out of bounds will become penalty areas. All penalty areas will be Red. My only OB will be barbed wire fences on two or three holes, and a highway that borders one hole. I'm anxious to see how much our pace improves on busy days.

 

I'm willing to bet that even with all the rule changes that were suppposed to speed play, in the end we will see no real dramatic effect.

 

1) Flag in/flag out: still scratching my head as to how we're saving time by 4 golfers being able to decide flag in/flag out on EVERY putt

2) 3 min rule: uhm ok, we can all do the math but most amateurs will not be timing themselves or others and time saved will be negligible

3) OB and lost ball rule: always amazes me how many amateurs out there have always thought this WAS the rule��

 

Just wondering, have the R&A or the USGA come up with any estimates abt exactly how much time some of these new rules will save on an average round? Would love to hear that one.

 

I think your conclusion is right on.

 

1) If a foursome doesn't wish to use the new option of keeping the flagstick in, it won't improve their pace.

2) If a foursome chooses to not follow the change to 3 minutes, it won't improve their pace.

3) If a foursome chose, or chooses to not understand or follow the rules of golf, the new rules won't improve their pace.

As a former golfer, I don't care for the new local rule. I'm old, get off my lawn!

 

As a course manager/professional, I am excited to put the new local rules into effect as soon as we open in the Spring. I have a difficult course, and pace of play is always an issue. Also, I have no homes surrounding our property. Almost everything that was formerly marked as out of bounds will become penalty areas. All penalty areas will be Red. My only OB will be barbed wire fences on two or three holes, and a highway that borders one hole. I'm anxious to see how much our pace improves on busy days.

 

I'm willing to bet that even with all the rule changes that were suppposed to speed play, in the end we will see no real dramatic effect.

 

1) Flag in/flag out: still scratching my head as to how we're saving time by 4 golfers being able to decide flag in/flag out on EVERY putt

2) 3 min rule: uhm ok, we can all do the math but most amateurs will not be timing themselves or others and time saved will be negligible

3) OB and lost ball rule: always amazes me how many amateurs out there have always thought this WAS the rule��

 

Just wondering, have the R&A or the USGA come up with any estimates abt exactly how much time some of these new rules will save on an average round? Would love to hear that one.

 

I think your conclusion is right on.

 

1) If a foursome doesn't wish to use the new option of keeping the flagstick in, it won't improve their pace.

2) If a foursome chooses to not follow the change to 3 minutes, it won't improve their pace.

3) If a foursome chose, or chooses to not understand or follow the rules of golf, the new rules won't improve their pace.

 

Clever, I like it. And I'll add a more banal, "At least now motivated, law-abiding citizens can move more quickly."

I had to look up banal. :)

It may take time, but hopefully peer pressure will help in convincing folks to use the new rules to their advantage in picking up the pace. I don't think there is a way to put a number on it, at least yet. Far too many variables...

As a former golfer, I don't care for the new local rule. I'm old, get off my lawn!

 

As a course manager/professional, I am excited to put the new local rules into effect as soon as we open in the Spring. I have a difficult course, and pace of play is always an issue. Also, I have no homes surrounding our property. Almost everything that was formerly marked as out of bounds will become penalty areas. All penalty areas will be Red. My only OB will be barbed wire fences on two or three holes, and a highway that borders one hole. I'm anxious to see how much our pace improves on busy days.

 

I'm willing to bet that even with all the rule changes that were suppposed to speed play, in the end we will see no real dramatic effect.

 

1) Flag in/flag out: still scratching my head as to how we're saving time by 4 golfers being able to decide flag in/flag out on EVERY putt

2) 3 min rule: uhm ok, we can all do the math but most amateurs will not be timing themselves or others and time saved will be negligible

3) OB and lost ball rule: always amazes me how many amateurs out there have always thought this WAS the rule��

 

Just wondering, have the R&A or the USGA come up with any estimates abt exactly how much time some of these new rules will save on an average round? Would love to hear that one.

 

I think your conclusion is right on.

 

1) If a foursome doesn't wish to use the new option of keeping the flagstick in, it won't improve their pace.

2) If a foursome chooses to not follow the change to 3 minutes, it won't improve their pace.

3) If a foursome chose, or chooses to not understand or follow the rules of golf, the new rules won't improve their pace.

 

Clever, I like it. And I'll add a more banal, "At least now motivated, law-abiding citizens can move more quickly."

 

I had to look up banal. :)

 

It may take time, but hopefully peer pressure will help in convincing folks to use the new rules to their advantage in picking up the pace. I don't think there is a way to put a number on it, at least yet. Far too many variables...

The new Rules provide more avenues to improve pace of play, but the Rules cannot improve pace, that is entirely up to the players, as it has always been. If pace doesn't improve, don't blame the Rules.

The new Rules provide more avenues to improve pace of play, but the Rules cannot improve pace, that is entirely up to the players, as it has always been. If pace doesn't improve, don't blame the Rules.

You're preaching to the choir brother!

As I said, all these new rules that were to have an affect on pace of play will have limited or zero affect.

Such silliness