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Early extension (Goat Humping)

Hello GolfWRX Community,



My golf swing has been causing me a lot of wrist pain lately (right wrist, right handed golfer). I don't have arthritis or any other physical ailments.



I'm pretty sure I have a case of early extension which causes me to flip the club at a steep angle, causing the wrist pain.



If anyone has any pointers on how to "cure" this I would appreciate it.



Video: https://youtu.be/PwA3gbAfYfc



Regards

GP


Programmer by day.... Also programmer by night since programmers don't have social lives.
Sometimes I get to play golf


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«1

Comments

  • ryan983ryan983 Advanced Members Posts: 665 ✭✭
    A large reason why you stand up is bc you have way too much forward bend at address and especially at the top of your backswing.



    Stand taller, get your arms in sooner and set your wrists earlier.
  • golfing_programmergolfing_programmer Members Posts: 26 ✭✭
    ryan983 wrote:


    A large reason why you stand up is bc you have way too much forward bend at address and especially at the top of your backswing.



    Stand taller, get your arms in sooner and set your wrists earlier.




    Hi Ryan,

    I took screenshots on an app I have with angles. I've attached them. So it seems my forward bend is around 50*. One of the first google results I found suggested using 25* as a general number (adjustable depending on height and such). So I would guess I've got close around 25* of room to play with.

    I will try to make this adjustment.

    Thanks!





    Programmer by day.... Also programmer by night since programmers don't have social lives.
    Sometimes I get to play golf


    Titleist 917D3 9.5*
    Titleist 910F 13.5*
    Callaway Apex Pro '16 3-PW
    Cleveland RTX4 52*, 60*
    Callaway MD3 56*
    Odyssey White Hot Fang
  • FullOfBrushManFullOfBrushMan Advanced Members Posts: 654 ✭✭
    edited February 18
    ryan983 wrote:


    A large reason why you stand up is bc you have way too much forward bend at address and especially at the top of your backswing.



    Stand taller, get your arms in sooner and set your wrists earlier.


    Agreed 100%. You have a ton of pressure/weight forward which means you have to pull your head backwards on your way to impact thus your pelvis stands up/moves forward/ yada yada. You can see this from 0:06 to 0:09.



    Also it's a bad video. You need to take it where the camera's line of sight is through your upper-most rib or at worse the area between your elbow to shoulder. People need to stop doing down the ball's line. Here is a good video to show you what the correct angle is.
  • NikeGolferTXNikeGolferTX Advanced Members Posts: 301 ✭✭
    edited February 18
    Your takeaway is decent.



    You're going to have to learn to get comfortable with your shoulders rotating, specifically your right shoulder lowering towards the ball while the left side of the hips move towards the tush line. Also not pulling on the handle and nor using your arms mostly to hit the ball.
  • golfing_programmergolfing_programmer Members Posts: 26 ✭✭

    ryan983 wrote:


    A large reason why you stand up is bc you have way too much forward bend at address and especially at the top of your backswing.



    Stand taller, get your arms in sooner and set your wrists earlier.


    Agreed 100%. You have a ton of pressure/weight forward which means you have to pull your head backwards on your way to impact thus your pelvis stands up/moves forward/ yada yada. You can see this from 0:06 to 0:09.



    Also it's a bad video. You need to take it where the camera's line of sight is through your upper-most rib or at worse the area between your elbow to shoulder. People need to stop doing down the ball's line. Here is a good video to show you what the correct angle is.




    I appreciate the feedback.

    I see from your example that my camera angle is off. I will be sure to keep this in mind in the future.

    Thanks!


    Programmer by day.... Also programmer by night since programmers don't have social lives.
    Sometimes I get to play golf


    Titleist 917D3 9.5*
    Titleist 910F 13.5*
    Callaway Apex Pro '16 3-PW
    Cleveland RTX4 52*, 60*
    Callaway MD3 56*
    Odyssey White Hot Fang
  • golfing_programmergolfing_programmer Members Posts: 26 ✭✭


    Your takeaway is decent.



    You're going to have to learn to get comfortable with your shoulders rotating, specifically your right shoulder lowering towards the ball while the left side of the hips move towards the tush line. Also not pulling on the handle and using your arms to hit the ball.




    Thanks for the feedback.

    Do you know any drills that can help to create this feeling?


    Programmer by day.... Also programmer by night since programmers don't have social lives.
    Sometimes I get to play golf


    Titleist 917D3 9.5*
    Titleist 910F 13.5*
    Callaway Apex Pro '16 3-PW
    Cleveland RTX4 52*, 60*
    Callaway MD3 56*
    Odyssey White Hot Fang
  • NikeGolferTXNikeGolferTX Advanced Members Posts: 301 ✭✭



    Your takeaway is decent.



    You're going to have to learn to get comfortable with your shoulders rotating, specifically your right shoulder lowering towards the ball while the left side of the hips move towards the tush line. Also not pulling on the handle and using your arms to hit the ball.




    Thanks for the feedback.

    Do you know any drills that can help to create this feeling?


    Yes.



  • golfing_programmergolfing_programmer Members Posts: 26 ✭✭




    Your takeaway is decent.



    You're going to have to learn to get comfortable with your shoulders rotating, specifically your right shoulder lowering towards the ball while the left side of the hips move towards the tush line. Also not pulling on the handle and using your arms to hit the ball.




    Thanks for the feedback.

    Do you know any drills that can help to create this feeling?


    Yes.



    https://www.instagra.../p/BinjVCwgc5-/




    Appreciate it!


    Programmer by day.... Also programmer by night since programmers don't have social lives.
    Sometimes I get to play golf


    Titleist 917D3 9.5*
    Titleist 910F 13.5*
    Callaway Apex Pro '16 3-PW
    Cleveland RTX4 52*, 60*
    Callaway MD3 56*
    Odyssey White Hot Fang
  • MountainGoatMountainGoat Advanced Members Posts: 1,496 ✭✭


    Hello GolfWRX Community,



    My golf swing has been causing me a lot of wrist pain lately (right wrist, right handed golfer). I don't have arthritis or any other physical ailments.



    I'm pretty sure I have a case of early extension which causes me to flip the club at a steep angle, causing the wrist pain.



    If anyone has any pointers on how to "cure" this I would appreciate it.



    Video: https://youtu.be/PwA3gbAfYfc



    Regards

    GP




    You're certainly not steep. In fact, your downswing is underneath the impact plane. You're a little laid off and shut at the top, and you're really deep into your right hip. It's a tough position to get out of without a lot of lower body power. With respect to wrist pain, I'd like to see your grip. Something's wrong with the way you're hinging at the top, and your hands are fighting each other.
  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Sponsors Posts: 18,146 ✭✭
    Too much forward bend and right shoulder dropping too much. You need less forward bend at address and stay in left tilt longer (left shoulder needs to stay down longer).



  • golfing_programmergolfing_programmer Members Posts: 26 ✭✭



    Hello GolfWRX Community,



    My golf swing has been causing me a lot of wrist pain lately (right wrist, right handed golfer). I don't have arthritis or any other physical ailments.



    I'm pretty sure I have a case of early extension which causes me to flip the club at a steep angle, causing the wrist pain.



    If anyone has any pointers on how to "cure" this I would appreciate it.



    Video: https://youtu.be/PwA3gbAfYfc



    Regards

    GP




    You're certainly not steep. In fact, your downswing is underneath the impact plane. You're a little laid off and shut at the top, and you're really deep into your right hip. It's a tough position to get out of without a lot of lower body power. With respect to wrist pain, I'd like to see your grip. Something's wrong with the way you're hinging at the top, and your hands are fighting each other.




    Maybe I'm getting my terms mixed up, when I said steep I was referring to the shaft being flatter on the backswing than on the downswing. I've attached images to illustrate what I was talking about.

    I'm guessing the "underneath the impact plane" you mentioned can probably be resolved by the shoulder rotation that everyone else has mentioned?

    I don't have any pics of my grip otherwise I would attach it. I'll see if I can get a pic later when I get my clubs out again.

    I appreciate your feedback!



    Backswing Parallel:



    Programmer by day.... Also programmer by night since programmers don't have social lives.
    Sometimes I get to play golf


    Titleist 917D3 9.5*
    Titleist 910F 13.5*
    Callaway Apex Pro '16 3-PW
    Cleveland RTX4 52*, 60*
    Callaway MD3 56*
    Odyssey White Hot Fang
  • golfing_programmergolfing_programmer Members Posts: 26 ✭✭


    Too much forward bend and right shoulder dropping too much. You need less forward bend at address and stay in left tilt longer (left shoulder needs to stay down longer).




    Hi Monte,

    I'm happy to hear that you're in agreement with everyone else about the forward bend. You mentioned the right shoulder dropping too much, and then mention the left shoulder needs to stay down longer. Are these one and the same? I interpreted this as a counter balance where if the right shoulder doesn't drop as much, then the left shoulder would also not raise up.

    Thanks for the feedback!

    GP


    Programmer by day.... Also programmer by night since programmers don't have social lives.
    Sometimes I get to play golf


    Titleist 917D3 9.5*
    Titleist 910F 13.5*
    Callaway Apex Pro '16 3-PW
    Cleveland RTX4 52*, 60*
    Callaway MD3 56*
    Odyssey White Hot Fang
  • dj*dj* Members Posts: 71
    edited February 18
    Flipping wouldn't necessarily cause wrist pain on its own unless you're also crashing the flip into firm resistance, like a mat, tree root, fatty, frozen beer can...
  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Sponsors Posts: 18,146 ✭✭



    Too much forward bend and right shoulder dropping too much. You need less forward bend at address and stay in left tilt longer (left shoulder needs to stay down longer).




    Hi Monte,

    I'm happy to hear that you're in agreement with everyone else about the forward bend. You mentioned the right shoulder dropping too much, and then mention the left shoulder needs to stay down longer. Are these one and the same? I interpreted this as a counter balance where if the right shoulder doesn't drop as much, then the left shoulder would also not raise up.

    Thanks for the feedback!

    GP




    Yes same thing.
  • glkglk send it in jerome Advanced Members Posts: 3,225 ✭✭



    Too much forward bend and right shoulder dropping too much. You need less forward bend at address and stay in left tilt longer (left shoulder needs to stay down longer).




    Hi Monte,

    I'm happy to hear that you're in agreement with everyone else about the forward bend. You mentioned the right shoulder dropping too much, and then mention the left shoulder needs to stay down longer. Are these one and the same? I interpreted this as a counter balance where if the right shoulder doesn't drop as much, then the left shoulder would also not raise up.

    Thanks for the feedback!

    GP


    Here is a good thread to read on left shoulder. http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1608380-lead-shoulder-in-transition/



    Couple of instrgram to demonstrate https://www.instagram.com/p/BqYLDStl_fy/ https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs9FLhIlmbU/



    Important to not let that lead knee drift too much in toward the trail knee - move it out over the toes. Lead side is lower than trail side at end of backswing -ankles, knees, hip, shoulders - then go downhill from there.
  • golfing_programmergolfing_programmer Members Posts: 26 ✭✭
    glk wrote:




    Too much forward bend and right shoulder dropping too much. You need less forward bend at address and stay in left tilt longer (left shoulder needs to stay down longer).




    Hi Monte,

    I'm happy to hear that you're in agreement with everyone else about the forward bend. You mentioned the right shoulder dropping too much, and then mention the left shoulder needs to stay down longer. Are these one and the same? I interpreted this as a counter balance where if the right shoulder doesn't drop as much, then the left shoulder would also not raise up.

    Thanks for the feedback!

    GP


    Here is a good thread to read on left shoulder. http://www.golfwrx.c...-in-transition/



    Couple of instrgram to demonstrate https://www.instagra.../p/BqYLDStl_fy/ https://www.instagra.../p/Bs9FLhIlmbU/



    Important to not let that lead knee drift too much in toward the trail knee - move it out over the toes. Lead side is lower than trail side at end of backswing -ankles, knees, hip, shoulders - then go downhill from there.




    Ah. This is a good thread with good videos. Appreciate it!


    Programmer by day.... Also programmer by night since programmers don't have social lives.
    Sometimes I get to play golf


    Titleist 917D3 9.5*
    Titleist 910F 13.5*
    Callaway Apex Pro '16 3-PW
    Cleveland RTX4 52*, 60*
    Callaway MD3 56*
    Odyssey White Hot Fang
  • BottleCapBottleCap Advanced Members Posts: 1,201 ✭✭
    Your takeaway is under plane. Get it steeper and you'll start making changes to accommodate this.
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  • golfing_programmergolfing_programmer Members Posts: 26 ✭✭
    BottleCap wrote:


    Your takeaway is under plane. Get it steeper and you'll start making changes to accommodate this.




    Interesting... I drew a line from the shaft through the butt of the club up through my body and when I watched the backswing the clubhead was just a tad below that. I think once I get myself standing more upright as suggested my swing will naturally become more steep.

    Thanks for the feedback!


    Programmer by day.... Also programmer by night since programmers don't have social lives.
    Sometimes I get to play golf


    Titleist 917D3 9.5*
    Titleist 910F 13.5*
    Callaway Apex Pro '16 3-PW
    Cleveland RTX4 52*, 60*
    Callaway MD3 56*
    Odyssey White Hot Fang
  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Advanced Members Posts: 856 ✭✭
    Dangit. This is me too. I didn't know there was a phrase for this swing fault other than standing up. Glad I got intrigued and took a look.
  • HoosierMizunoHoosierMizuno Advanced Members Posts: 3,315 ✭✭
    hard to tell from the video but for me having a square to slightly closed clubface at p6 allowed me to continue turning through the shot and not need to feel the last minute flip with the hands that often cause me to stand up prior impact. i just felt my left forearm begin to rotate a little sooner after the transition.



    if you pause the video right before impact you can see your left wrist is into ulnar deviation. check out tour striker impact strap or at least the videos on what it intends to teach.
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  • BottleCapBottleCap Advanced Members Posts: 1,201 ✭✭

    BottleCap wrote:


    Your takeaway is under plane. Get it steeper and you'll start making changes to accommodate this.




    Interesting... I drew a line from the shaft through the butt of the club up through my body and when I watched the backswing the clubhead was just a tad below that. I think once I get myself standing more upright as suggested my swing will naturally become more steep.

    Thanks for the feedback!




    You just want the takeaway steeper, this should promote a shallower downswing. It's a loop, if you start steep, you end up shallow, if you start shallow you end up steep
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  • golfing_programmergolfing_programmer Members Posts: 26 ✭✭
    Hello All,



    I was able to take a few swings at Golf Galaxy yesterday and as suggested, I tried standing more upright. It felt awkward, like I was setting up to do a barbell squat but I experienced very little wrist pain that eventually subsided as I continued swinging. The contact was pretty pure too for the majority of shots, however it seems I was struggling with a fade (per their simulator, which who knows how accurate that actually is). I'm going to hit the range tonight to get some actual results.



    I appreciate everyone's feedback!


    Programmer by day.... Also programmer by night since programmers don't have social lives.
    Sometimes I get to play golf


    Titleist 917D3 9.5*
    Titleist 910F 13.5*
    Callaway Apex Pro '16 3-PW
    Cleveland RTX4 52*, 60*
    Callaway MD3 56*
    Odyssey White Hot Fang
  • BottleCapBottleCap Advanced Members Posts: 1,201 ✭✭
    You don't want to stand upright, you want the golf shaft to be more upright during the take away



    from the down the line view, you want the club head first cross your body at the bicep or higher during your backswing
    Taylormade M3 440 Tensei CK Pro Blue 70S
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  • golfing_programmergolfing_programmer Members Posts: 26 ✭✭
    BottleCap wrote:


    You don't want to stand upright, you want the golf shaft to be more upright during the take away



    from the down the line view, you want the club head first cross your body at the bicep or higher during your backswing




    Hi BottleCap,

    Everyone suggested less forward tilt, which I understand is to stand more upright (more knee flex, less hip bend). I understand the concept you've described of steep up/shallow down and I think it would help my game. But are you suggesting I not reduce forward tilt? I'm not standing upright, when I took another video while putzing around my house, the angle was reduced from 50* (pictured above) to probably 35* - 40*.

    regards


    Programmer by day.... Also programmer by night since programmers don't have social lives.
    Sometimes I get to play golf


    Titleist 917D3 9.5*
    Titleist 910F 13.5*
    Callaway Apex Pro '16 3-PW
    Cleveland RTX4 52*, 60*
    Callaway MD3 56*
    Odyssey White Hot Fang
  • HoosierMizunoHoosierMizuno Advanced Members Posts: 3,315 ✭✭
    i'd like others to comment, but if viewing the setup on the target line behind the golfer, if we draw a line from the back of the shoulder socket am i correct in that it should intersect just forward of the center of feet.



    Proper-Golf-Stance-Day.jpg
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    TM M2 3HL w/ Rogue Black 70 S
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    [/font]
    [font=georgia,serif]Cleveland RTX3 CB 50 54 58[/font]
    [font=georgia,serif]TM Spider Tour Black w/ T-sightline 36" [/font]
  • golfing_programmergolfing_programmer Members Posts: 26 ✭✭


    i'd like others to comment, but if viewing the setup on the target line behind the golfer, if we draw a line from the back of the shoulder socket am i correct in that it should intersect just forward of the center of feet.



    Proper-Golf-Stance-Day.jpg




    This is a good reference, it'll be easier for me to immediately tell if I'm too far forward rather than check a picture/video after the fact.

    Thanks for posting it!


    Programmer by day.... Also programmer by night since programmers don't have social lives.
    Sometimes I get to play golf


    Titleist 917D3 9.5*
    Titleist 910F 13.5*
    Callaway Apex Pro '16 3-PW
    Cleveland RTX4 52*, 60*
    Callaway MD3 56*
    Odyssey White Hot Fang
  • finleysgfinleysg Advanced Members Posts: 1,233
    A phrase I hear a lot doing yoga (Rodney Yee dvds) is "center your weight in front of your heels". This is typically for very upright poses, but I find it's a good reminder at address over the golf ball. Not out on the balls of your feet. Not back on your heels. Centered.
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  • glkglk send it in jerome Advanced Members Posts: 3,225 ✭✭
    In addition to HoosierMizuno's example I also do this - I check pretty often at home in a mirror, practice range, sometimes even when playing (though more the hand test than getting out an alignment stick)



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0RUUuLWFwM
  • Coy MCoy M OG Baby Advanced Members Posts: 1,141 ✭✭
    GGswingtips released a video today on setup. From what I took from it is that the arm pits, knees, and balls of your feet should line up at address.
  • tchildstchilds Advanced Members Posts: 357
    This may not make sense, but it could be a sequencing issue. That is your hips have turned pretty much their full amount before the club reaches halfway back...right knee is stiffening a bit and I would make a guess that your hips are sort of reverse pivoting (from a face on angle anyway). So your lower body outraces your upper body going back so there is really nowhere for your hips to go coming down so yo have to stand up. I would tell you to let the hips turn when they MUST going back and see if it is easier to sequence your downswing...with the feeling there of the exact opposite, but works back feeling and chest is over the ball more. as they say here, just my $.02.
  • tnotno Members Posts: 51 ✭✭
    You're goat humping because during your transition to the downswing, you are shifting your weight towards your toes on your left foot. Instead, try shifting your weight and apply more pressure on your heels on your left foot. This will also prevent you from blocking, and will leave more room for your hands to come inside. Try that out and let me know how that works!
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  • aliikanealiikane Advanced Members Posts: 1,595 ✭✭
    It could be a lack of flexibility. I struggle with the same thing. However, what may help is if you bend from the hips properly with a straight back (as opposed to a rounded back) the upper body and lower body move independently better which increases separation of the upper and lower body and help the goat humping.
  • Coy MCoy M OG Baby Advanced Members Posts: 1,141 ✭✭
    edited March 6
    tno wrote:


    You're goat humping because during your transition to the downswing, you are shifting your weight towards your toes on your left foot. Instead, try shifting your weight and apply more pressure on your heels on your left foot. This will also prevent you from blocking, and will leave more room for your hands to come inside. Try that out and let me know how that works!




    The feeling of shifting to left heel is correct but doing it during the downswing is not. What fixed my EE is "re-centering" at the top of the backswing. Which means getting the weight on the left heel at the top of the back swing so that I can just rotate on the downswing. It works. Check out this video. https://youtu.be/AMEpdcWPttg
  • tnotno Members Posts: 51 ✭✭
    Coy M wrote:




    The feeling of shifting to left heel is correct but doing it during the downswing is not. What fixed my EE is "re-centering" at the top of the backswing. Which means getting the weight on the left heel at the top of the back swing so that I can just rotate on the downswing. It works. Check out this video. https://youtu.be/AMEpdcWPttg




    Right! Maybe I didn't explain it well, but that's what I meant when I said "during your transition to the downswing." I didn't mean to say shift weight to the left heel DURING the downswing, rather, shift the weight a split second before you reach the top of your backswing.
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  • glkglk send it in jerome Advanced Members Posts: 3,225 ✭✭
    Shifting pressure in transition/shaft vertical downswing can certainly go to the toe but then works it's way to mid-foot or heel in the rest of the downswing.

    Different pressure patterns exist that have been found to support but not necessary cause fade/draw shots.



    Faders have been found to go trail toe to lead heel and draws trail heel to lead toe (or linear). Then there is the z-trace which is seen in long drivers like Thomas, Bubba, Lexi, Matt Wolff - they have so much vertical force generated by shaft vertical in downswing and "jump" thru impact and will be on their toes at impact with pressure going back to the trail foot versus lead for a brief period of time - it's a relative measure and they unweight their lead foot thru impact.



    Boditrak and Swing Catalyst have a lot of information/articles on pressure and vertical force on their sites.



    Keeping pressure on the lead toe (or both toes) certainly is an issue but going to the lead toe in transition is not necessarily an issue.



    Shasho article from boditrak https://boditrakperformance.com/analyze-pressure-trace-dr-sasho-mackenzie/

    And Shasho has another article discussing how imbalances in foot pressure/force can lead to EE - greater trail foot force than lead foot.



    And Scott Hamilton has a nice video on it. A pool noodle is a great training aid.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frGnCtjH6I4
  • NikeGolferTXNikeGolferTX Advanced Members Posts: 301 ✭✭
    Coy M wrote:

    tno wrote:


    You're goat humping because during your transition to the downswing, you are shifting your weight towards your toes on your left foot. Instead, try shifting your weight and apply more pressure on your heels on your left foot. This will also prevent you from blocking, and will leave more room for your hands to come inside. Try that out and let me know how that works!




    The feeling of shifting to left heel is correct but doing it during the downswing is not. What fixed my EE is "re-centering" at the top of the backswing. Which means getting the weight on the left heel at the top of the back swing so that I can just rotate on the downswing. It works. Check out this video. https://youtu.be/AMEpdcWPttg


    This definitely works.



    You can also try out the GG pivot where you don't shift pressure forward immediately and you're able to get more ground pressure in both legs by torquing the ground for more power.
  • Coy MCoy M OG Baby Advanced Members Posts: 1,141 ✭✭

    Coy M wrote:

    tno wrote:


    You're goat humping because during your transition to the downswing, you are shifting your weight towards your toes on your left foot. Instead, try shifting your weight and apply more pressure on your heels on your left foot. This will also prevent you from blocking, and will leave more room for your hands to come inside. Try that out and let me know how that works!




    The feeling of shifting to left heel is correct but doing it during the downswing is not. What fixed my EE is "re-centering" at the top of the backswing. Which means getting the weight on the left heel at the top of the back swing so that I can just rotate on the downswing. It works. Check out this video. https://youtu.be/AMEpdcWPttg


    This definitely works.



    You can also try out the GG pivot where you don't shift pressure forward immediately and you're able to get more ground pressure in both legs by torquing the ground for more power.




    Yeah, I worked on that last night at the range. Feeling like I'm almost squatting down and rotating hard af. When i did it correctly I could visually tell the ball was going further.
  • glkglk send it in jerome Advanced Members Posts: 3,225 ✭✭

    Coy M wrote:

    tno wrote:


    You're goat humping because during your transition to the downswing, you are shifting your weight towards your toes on your left foot. Instead, try shifting your weight and apply more pressure on your heels on your left foot. This will also prevent you from blocking, and will leave more room for your hands to come inside. Try that out and let me know how that works!




    The feeling of shifting to left heel is correct but doing it during the downswing is not. What fixed my EE is "re-centering" at the top of the backswing. Which means getting the weight on the left heel at the top of the back swing so that I can just rotate on the downswing. It works. Check out this video. [url="


    This definitely works.



    You can also try out the GG pivot where you don't shift pressure forward immediately and you're able to get more ground pressure in both legs by torquing the ground for more power.


    How do horizontal forces, torquing , lead to more pressure?
  • Barnabus89Barnabus89 Members Posts: 1
    I went for a lesson on Monday night with these exact problems - for me it was all about my left (lead) knee. During the backswing it really collapses toward the middle of my stance which allows my hips and then shoulders to overswing massively - from that backswing position with the left knee in the middle of the stance it is really tricky to get to the ball properly. I was instructed to feel my left knee staying more on top of my left foot i.e not collapsing to the right. it transformed my backswing, and then when working chest rotation in the downswing my goat humping completely disappeared.
  • NikeGolferTXNikeGolferTX Advanced Members Posts: 301 ✭✭
    edited March 7
    glk wrote:


    Coy M wrote:

    tno wrote:


    You're goat humping because during your transition to the downswing, you are shifting your weight towards your toes on your left foot. Instead, try shifting your weight and apply more pressure on your heels on your left foot. This will also prevent you from blocking, and will leave more room for your hands to come inside. Try that out and let me know how that works!




    The feeling of shifting to left heel is correct but doing it during the downswing is not. What fixed my EE is "re-centering" at the top of the backswing. Which means getting the weight on the left heel at the top of the back swing so that I can just rotate on the downswing. It works. Check out this video. https://youtu.be/AMEpdcWPttg


    This definitely works.



    You can also try out the GG pivot where you don't shift pressure forward immediately and you're able to get more ground pressure in both legs by torquing the ground for more power.


    How do horizontal forces, torquing , lead to more pressure?


    You can see some of the long drive guys with lots of pressure shifts in one swing:



    Jaime Sadlowski: lead leg numbers:



    p1 56 (maxes out at 74-trigger move),

    p2 19

    p3 12

    p4 79-92

    p5 74

    p6 45

    p7 18

    p8 34

    p9 81



    That's 5 pressure shift changes during his swing!



    You can get pressure forward with lead side pelvis low instead of actively pushing pressure forward.

    If you actively push pressure forward as quickly as possible you’ll lose some torque and verticals and you'll be more likely to stand the shaft up in transition all while losing speed coming into impact.



    I gained way more distance with the Gankas pivot because I'm unloading just moments before impact instead of losing speed coming into impact.



    If pressure is displaced between both legs, you technically have more ground pressure and two major muscles to push off of.



    It's interesting to see new ways of getting it done. Pressure forward immediately is what the top pros have done forever, but that doesn't mean it's the most optimal route for speed. Also it's an unoriginal take on the swing.
  • glkglk send it in jerome Advanced Members Posts: 3,225 ✭✭
    edited March 7

    glk wrote:


    Coy M wrote:

    tno wrote:


    You're goat humping because during your transition to the downswing, you are shifting your weight towards your toes on your left foot. Instead, try shifting your weight and apply more pressure on your heels on your left foot. This will also prevent you from blocking, and will leave more room for your hands to come inside. Try that out and let me know how that works!




    The feeling of shifting to left heel is correct but doing it during the downswing is not. What fixed my EE is "re-centering" at the top of the backswing. Which means getting the weight on the left heel at the top of the back swing so that I can just rotate on the downswing. It works. Check out this video. https://youtu.be/AMEpdcWPttg


    This definitely works.



    You can also try out the GG pivot where you don't shift pressure forward immediately and you're able to get more ground pressure in both legs by torquing the ground for more power.


    How do horizontal forces, torquing , lead to more pressure?


    You can see some of the long drive guys with lots of pressure shifts in one swing:



    Jaime Sadlowski: lead leg numbers:



    p1 56 (maxes out at 74-trigger move),

    p2 19

    p3 12

    p4 79-92

    p5 74

    p6 45

    p7 18

    p8 34

    p9 81



    That's 5 pressure shift changes during his swing!



    You can get pressure forward with lead side pelvis low instead of actively pushing pressure forward.

    If you actively push pressure forward as quickly as possible you’ll lose some torque and verticals and you'll be more likely to stand the shaft up in transition all while losing speed coming into impact.



    I gained way more distance with the Gankas pivot because I'm unloading just moments before impact instead of losing speed coming into impact.



    If pressure is displaced between both legs, you technically have more ground pressure and two major muscles to push off of.



    It's interesting to see new ways of getting it done. Pressure forward immediately is what the top pros have done forever, but that doesn't mean it's the most optimal route for speed. Also it's an unoriginal take on the swing.


    You never addressed my question. Ground pressure is increased by applying a vertical force not horizontal (torquing). You don't get more pressure by having it displaced between both legs - make little sense.



    Gankas people get their pressure forward early too - that create a ball is the beginning of the lateral movement - Wolff has been measured by swing catalyst force plates as having 284% of his body weight on his lead leg by shaft vertical (highest they have so far recorded), ie between p5-p6 - you don't get there by shifting late.
  • NikeGolferTXNikeGolferTX Advanced Members Posts: 301 ✭✭
    edited March 7
    Torquing is a vertical force: rotating into the ground.



    It's not about not getting pressure forward, it's about when.



    Check this out: https://www.instagra.../p/BpfFEHRgf70/
  • glkglk send it in jerome Advanced Members Posts: 3,225 ✭✭
    edited March 7


    Torquing is a vertical force: rotating into the ground.



    It's not about not getting pressure forward, it's about when.



    Check this out: [url="



    Nope torquing is not a vertical force inground pressure.

    https://www.swingcatalyst.com/learning-center/articles/ground-reaction-force



    When is early

    https://boditrakperformance.com/cheat-codes-how-to-improve-club-head-speed-by-increasing-vertical-force-at-a-specific-point-in-the-downswing/



    https://www.swingcatalyst.com/learning-center/articles/increased-vertical-forces-increased-carry-distance-or
  • NikeGolferTXNikeGolferTX Advanced Members Posts: 301 ✭✭
    edited March 7
    glk wrote:



    Torquing is a vertical force: rotating into the ground.



    It's not about not getting pressure forward, it's about when.



    Check this out: https://www.instagra.../p/BpfFEHRgf70/


    Nope torquing is not a vertical force inground pressure.

    https://www.swingcat...-reaction-force



    When is early

    https://boditrakperf...-the-downswing/



    https://www.swingcat...rry-distance-or




    Thanks for this, I'll read it.



    Why is it that I hit much further with the GG pivot instead of what the article is implying?



    Why is it that coaches who advocate for bumps and surfs, their players aren't more opened up at impact nor are they as shallow in transition?
  • glkglk send it in jerome Advanced Members Posts: 3,225 ✭✭
    edited March 7

    glk wrote:




    Thanks for this, I'll read it.



    Why is it that I hit much further with the GG pivot instead of what the article is implying?



    Why is it that coaches who advocate for bumps and surfs, their players aren't opened up at impact nor are they as shallow in transition?


    How do you know you have the GG pivot - and what definitively defines it. Wolff has a large lateral move that Wayne d showed. He starts with his hips shifted targetward at setup.



    Which coaches are these?
  • NikeGolferTXNikeGolferTX Advanced Members Posts: 301 ✭✭
    edited March 7
    glk wrote:


    glk wrote:



    Torquing is a vertical force: rotating into the ground.



    It's not about not getting pressure forward, it's about when.



    Check this out: https://www.instagra.../p/BpfFEHRgf70/


    Nope torquing is not a vertical force inground pressure.

    https://www.swingcat...-reaction-force



    When is early

    https://boditrakperf...-the-downswing/



    https://www.swingcat...rry-distance-or




    Thanks for this, I'll read it.



    Why is it that I hit much further with the GG pivot instead of what the article is implying?



    Why is it that coaches who advocate for bumps and surfs, their players aren't opened up at impact nor are they as shallow in transition?


    How do you know you have the GG pivot - and what definitively defines it. Wolff has a large lateral move that Wayne d showed. He start with his his shiftedtargetward at setup.



    Which coaches are these?


    Getting around first with pressure displaced between both legs and then pushing off the back side into the front going into impact versus shifting pressure as fast as possible and rotating off the lead leg.



    It's really getting to the same place, just taking a different route.



    But IMO the Gankas matchup helps in acquiring more rotation.
  • J13J13 Dad golf Advanced Members Posts: 15,229 ✭✭
    GG also talks about posture at setup. You backside should be underneath of you and it should stay there until transition. At transition you should push back and rotate.
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  • glkglk send it in jerome Advanced Members Posts: 3,225 ✭✭

    glk wrote:


    glk wrote:




    Thanks for this, I'll read it.



    Why is it that I hit much further with the GG pivot instead of what the article is implying?



    Why is it that coaches who advocate for bumps and surfs, their players aren't opened up at impact nor are they as shallow in transition?


    How do you know you have the GG pivot - and what definitively defines it. Wolff has a large lateral move that Wayne d showed. He start with his his shiftedtargetward at setup.



    Which coaches are these?


    Getting around first with pressure displaced between both legs and then pushing off the back side into the front going into impact versus shifting pressure as fast as possible and rotating off the lead leg.



    It's really getting to the same place, just taking a different route.



    But IMO the Gankas matchup helps in acquiring more rotation.


    Shifting as fast as possible can cause issues - it’s shifting by p5 not as early as possible. To state the obvious, lots of ways each with their own set of issues and positives.



    Btw Sadlowski has the look of the z- trace where his lead foot gets unweighted by impact like Thomas, bubba, etc. but the numbers you provided show he is getting pressure forward early and I imagine creating tremendous vertical forces by shaft vertical.



    Rotation to me is not the critical factor. Folks get rotated - it’s generating vertical force thru the lead leg. The squat and jump. Really noticeable on driver and toned down with irons and especially wedges.

  • Coy MCoy M OG Baby Advanced Members Posts: 1,141 ✭✭
    But there has to be rotation?? Yes you squat and jump but you HAVE to create rotation and I think he's saying you can create A LOT of rotation with toque. Get to top of back swing and when starting down swing you squat, rotate and then extend.
  • dachtordachtor Advanced Members Posts: 885
    EE and raising the handle are closely related. I find when I focus on returning the handle at impact to the same place it started at address, it's more difficult to EE. Stick an alignment rod in the ground pointed at you just above and parallel to your shaft plane. Keep the handle under it thru impact.
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