Leaving the pin in fundamentally changes the game!

mankumanku Members Posts: 674 ✭✭
I've only played a couple of rounds this year, but this new rule allowing the pin to remain while putting has altered the game, IMHO, and made it easier.



1. It's a visual aid. No different than using alignment sticks on the tee.



2. A few times, the pin has stopped an aggressive putt leaving a tap in instead of a 4-12 footer. Don't think it's kicked any putts out.



Granted, it's a really tiny sample size, but it will be interesting to see how this change plays out.



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Comments

  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Members Posts: 11,657 ✭✭
    edited Mar 1, 2019 4:46pm #2
    I've played with the pin in on my home course on weeknights for years. Sacrilege i know



    Nothing to see folks



    It may help a little but it should speed things up and that's a good thing



    And I'm also guessing the pin gets splatted a whole lot less on greens as well, plus less chances of tearing up cup edges
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  • mikpgamikpga www.mikedeitersgolf.com Members Posts: 7,347 ✭✭
    ...there is nothing new under the sun...
  • Joker91Joker91 Members Posts: 455 ✭✭
  • nyrican52884nyrican52884 Members Posts: 89 ✭✭
    I played this weekend and left the pin in and was amazed how my putts were going in. The pin definitely reveals where the break is close to the cup. I thought it was a distraction but turned out to be a visual aid.
  • wfrogge1wfrogge1 Members Posts: 1,192 ✭✭
    manku wrote:


    I've only played a couple of rounds this year, but this new rule allowing the pin to remain while putting has altered the game, IMHO, and made it easier.



    1. It's a visual aid. No different than using alignment sticks on the tee.



    2. A few times, the pin has stopped an aggressive putt leaving a tap in instead of a 4-12 footer. Don't think it's kicked any putts out.



    Granted, it's a really tiny sample size, but it will be interesting to see how this change plays out.




    If you hit the center of the pin yes. If you do not hit the exact center of the pin it will not go in
  • sailfishchrissailfishchris Members Posts: 876 ✭✭
    In the few rounds I've played this winter, at home, some pins were actually frozen in the cup. I will admit as a visual aid- I did like the pin in on putts over 20 or so feet.
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  • xxioxxio Members Posts: 5,660 ✭✭
    So did the use of pegs instead of sand as tees.
  • cxxcxx Members Posts: 3,059 ✭✭
    manku wrote:


    I've only played a couple of rounds this year, but this new rule allowing the pin to remain while putting has altered the game, IMHO, and made it easier.



    1. It's a visual aid. No different than using alignment sticks on the tee.



    2. A few times, the pin has stopped an aggressive putt leaving a tap in instead of a 4-12 footer. Don't think it's kicked any putts out.



    Granted, it's a really tiny sample size, but it will be interesting to see how this change plays out.




    You are allowed to take the pin out if you prefer.
  • SocratesSocrates How can it be so *&#% hard to make a shoulder turn? WinnipegClubWRX Posts: 9,176 ClubWRX
    For the average recreational golfer, it is not going to make much of a difference. For the professionals, I think it has changed the game in a way the Ruling Bodies really didn't think through. Pros are quickly learning that they can take out the break out and ram it into the pin. Especially from the mid range putts where there make % is typically less. I think by the time the Masters is over, this will be a serious topic.
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  • straightshot7straightshot7 Members Posts: 2,925 ✭✭
    cardoustie wrote:


    I've played with the pin in on my home course on weeknights for years. Sacrilege i know



    Nothing to see folks



    It may help a little but it should speed things up and that's a good thing



    And I'm also guessing the pin gets splatted a whole lot less on greens as well, plus less chances of tearing up cup edges




    It's only going to speed things up if everyone agrees to leave the flagstick in or take it out. Otherwise it's a royal pain.



    If this new rule is deemed a success, they might introduce the idea of making it a rule that the flag must always be left in.



    I personally think they threw the baby out with the bath water. A downhill 6 footer at Augusta is not as beautiful or pure with the flagstick in as a potential backstop.
  • jamiejamie Lefty Boomers Posts: 1,137 ✭✭
    I have to say the pin has knocked a couple outs out...on breaking puts I hit the low side of the flag and I know they would’ve gone in without it. I usually have the flag in outside 15 ft. I tend to hit putts too hard with the pin in while inside 15ft.
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  • Dave230Dave230 Members Posts: 3,748 ✭✭
    Definitely helps with longer putts as a visual aid, even medium range putts. The "makeable" putts in the 10 foot in range not sure it makes any real difference.
  • golfer929golfer929 Members Posts: 230 ✭✭
    I don’t think it makes a difference either way. If you hit the center of the pin and it pops out, it also would have if it hit the back of the cup. Only thing that could closely resemble at a advantage is the visual aid. At the end of the day, this game changes over time, I don’t want to hear about “Back in the day” and “The true way to play”, because your grandfathers grandfather was saying the same thing!
  • eric13eric13 Members Posts: 47 ✭✭
    From a visual perspective tending the pin and the current rule are the same. Deflection vs making is the real difference and I’m not going there.
  • Frankensteins MonsterFrankensteins Monster Members Posts: 6,674 ✭✭
    No it doesn’t.
  • Zip-in-ZZip-in-Z Z-Z's First Love - 1970 Members Posts: 782 ✭✭
    I'm hiding from winter in Palm Springs, I would agree with the majority of the posts, the one thing no one mentioned is .... in the late afternoon when the sun is going down & there's a bit of a breeze, everyone here removes the pin as the shadow of the stick moving & flag flappin is a distraction.



    Otherwise it sure keeps the pace of play moving here in the desert.



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  • LokiLoki Members Posts: 1,110 ✭✭
    When I play as a single, I NEVER pull the pin. In fact, sometimes on a one footer, I will hit the ball so hard that it will bounce off the pin so I dont have to bend down and get it out of the hole.



    Guess what? I posted every single one of these rounds...including the ones where they explicitly said these rounds are unpostable. No USGA, I am not cheating anyone, but possibly myself. I'm okay with that.
  • ChrismydawgChrismydawg JLo Members Posts: 395 ✭✭
    manku wrote:
    I've only played a couple of rounds this year, but this new rule allowing the pin to remain while putting has altered the game, IMHO, and made it easier.



    1. It's a visual aid. No different than using alignment sticks on the tee.



    2. A few times, the pin has stopped an aggressive putt leaving a tap in instead of a 4-12 footer. Don't think it's kicked any putts out.



    Granted, it's a really tiny sample size, but it will be interesting to see how this change plays out.




    I haven’t seen much of an advantage except for one thing.



    On a straight putt where the pin casts a shadow you can just put down the shadow line and nail it every time. I’ve seen some 8-10 footers be tap ins.



    Putting doesn’t seem much easier to me since the rule change for me besides that.
  • MaximilianMaximilian Members Posts: 1,349 ✭✭
    cardoustie wrote:


    And I'm also guessing the pin gets splatted a whole lot less on greens as well, plus less chances of tearing up cup edges


    One thing I’m a bit worried about, is I see people shoving their hands in the hole with the pin in to pickup their balls. Feels like people are softening the edges of the hole.
  • ORTORT Members Posts: 123 ✭✭
    I've always played evening rounds after work leaving pins in (anything to save a few minutes to get in before dark). Always had better putting success with it in, now I can do it all the time.
  • Bush PilotBush Pilot Members Posts: 253 ✭✭
    edited Mar 1, 2019 8:46pm #22
    manku wrote:
    1. It's a visual aid. No different than using alignment sticks on the tee.




    I'd like to see someone put an alignment stick vertically in front on the tee box as a visual aid. I guess you'd have to, to have it no different, right? lol
  • VindogVindog Don't order the schnitzel. They're using schnauzer! Members Posts: 17,471 ✭✭
    edited Mar 2, 2019 7:40am #23
    Bush Pilot wrote:

    manku wrote:
    1. It's a visual aid. No different than using alignment sticks on the tee.




    I'd like to see someone put an alignment stick vertically in front on the tee box as a visual aid. I guess you'd have to, to have it no different, right? lol




    Also, are there already alignment stick on the tee? I never see any, but if there were and they happen to be in line with where you are aiming, then you could absolutely use them as a visual aid, just like anything else that is on the course.





    So I guess it is different after all.
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  • LokiLoki Members Posts: 1,110 ✭✭
    Maximilian wrote:

    cardoustie wrote:


    And I'm also guessing the pin gets splatted a whole lot less on greens as well, plus less chances of tearing up cup edges


    One thing I’m a bit worried about, is I see people shoving their hands in the hole with the pin in to pickup their balls. Feels like people are softening the edges of the hole.




    Has got to be better than the idiots sticking their putter heads in the hole to flip the ball out. Damages the side everytime.
  • ORTORT Members Posts: 123 ✭✭
    Loki wrote:
    Has got to be better than the idiots sticking their putter heads in the hole to flip the ball out. Damages the side everytime.




    Agreed. That is one of my least favorite things that other players do.
  • nichhonichho Members Posts: 1,904 ✭✭
    Vindog wrote:

    Bush Pilot wrote:

    manku wrote:
    1. It's a visual aid. No different than using alignment sticks on the tee.




    I'd like to see someone put an alignment stick vertically in front on the tee box as a visual aid. I guess you'd have to, to have it no different, right? lol




    Also, are there already alignment stick on the tee? I never see any, but if there were and they happen to be in line with where you are aiming, then you could absolutely use them as a visual aid, just like anything else that is on the course.





    So I guess it is different after all.




    Also, in the past if I wanted a visual aid on the putting green I would just ask a playing partner to attended the flag for me, it had pretty much the same effect, upright and in the hole.
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  • huskerpower_105huskerpower_105 Members Posts: 410 ✭✭
    edited Mar 2, 2019 10:25pm #27
    manku wrote:


    I've only played a couple of rounds this year, but this new rule allowing the pin to remain while putting has altered the game, IMHO, and made it easier.



    1. It's a visual aid. No different than using alignment sticks on the tee.



    2. A few times, the pin has stopped an aggressive putt leaving a tap in instead of a 4-12 footer. Don't think it's kicked any putts out.



    Granted, it's a really tiny sample size, but it will be interesting to see how this change plays out.




    Just playing devils advocate here and not picking a fight but:

    1. If it is a visual aid then we should eliminate trees or any other landmark type objects around golf courses that can be used to line up in reference to

    2. If that is the case pins should not be allowed in general. If I hit the pin from 150 yds it’s okay but not from 20 ft?



    I like the simplification but think the weekend warriors that take their games way to seriously will have groups who both want it in and out, similar to AS and Holmes at Riv, and slow down pace of play more than what this change had intended.
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  • TyeetimeTyeetime Members Posts: 61
    Will it speed up the game though? What if half the foursome use the pin and the others want it out? I think it might slow things down unless everyone is using it.
  • oikos1oikos1 Members Posts: 2,245 ✭✭
    Even if it's one putt during one round, if a golfer leaves the flag in thinking they have a better chance of making the putt or leaving it closer to the hole, then the ability to improve one's score has changed and golf has changed fundamentally.



    We know it's not just one putt during one round and since you can't quantify confidence it will never be measured, but it doesn't matter because leaving the flag in now gives the golfer the option of an advantage they did not have before and yes, that fundamentally changes the game.
  • GoGoErkyGoGoErky Members Posts: 1,074 ✭✭
    It could have been used as s visual aid when someone asked to have the flag tended. Now we don’t gave to ask for it to be tended or have a penalty assessed if the person tending forgot to remove it
  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers Posts: 28,209 ✭✭
    I think the actual definition of "fundamental" is such that it's a pretty strong word to associate this rule change with.



    I don't really care about this rule one way or the other. I've putted with the flag in many times during solo night rounds. I don't feel it changed anything about golf for me. If the USGA wants to put this rule in writing i've got no issues.



    If people can't even agree if having it in is beneficial or not, it probably won't affect us much.
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