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Ridiculous Pace of Play Idea (tour only)

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  • straightshot7straightshot7  3379Members Posts: 3,379
    Joined:  #32

    MtlJeff wrote:



    I don't think the Tour is motivated to speed up play. If anything, it's the opposite.



    Longer rounds=more commercial breaks=more ad revenue opportunity=bigger TV deals




    I agree that until there is pushback for network space from other more successful programs, there is zero incentive for the tour to care about pace. They have the time slot already booked and it seems to be profitable for the networks and the tour.



    Now if the second coming of Seinfeld comes on at 7 every Saturday and Sunday, and golf is always running late...there could be problems




    I think they care and probably the network more so when they go over the time slot. CBS or whoever probably doesn't want the final round coverage of the Valspar running into 60 minutes. I also think commercial time is cheaper outside the time slot so they're losing money on that as well.



    In general though, golf broadcasts are probably way too long for casual viewers and even if they're just watching when the leaders go off 4+ hours cruises way past what most sports fans' sweet zone is for time allotment watching a sporting event.




    Who's losing money?



    Advertisers are generally willing to pay more for ad space on programs that are watched live because shows like 60 minutes often get recorded and people fast forward through the commercials.



    What CBS/NBC care about most is obviously viewership. They aren't upset if a golf tournament goes outside of time slot as long as the viewership is there. If they didn't like playoffs they would have stopped airing them a long time ago or pushed for earlier tee times. But they don't.
    Posted:
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  • Swisstrader98Swisstrader98  3604Members Posts: 3,604
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    ORT wrote:

    TheLarch wrote:
    The tour is about as concerned with pace of play as Wal-Mart is with having enough cashiers.




    Why does my super Walmart have 30 registers and only two cashier's one of whom always has their distress light flashing? That one always stumps me.




    Just for Black Friday sales. That’s the only time someone might go somewhere else if they’re tired of waiting. Otherwise they know people aren’t going anywhere else.




    The last time I had to wait for a Walmart cashier was about 7 years ago. 8-10 people in line for each of just 3 Cahsiers.



    I swore that day I’d never do it again and I haven’t. I go only after 10:00 pm at night and I use self checkout for just 2 things:



    1. 5 quart jugs of 0-40 mobile one. $25.47



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    Good thing we now have Walmart shopping tips on WRX😂
    Posted:
  • Swisstrader98Swisstrader98  3604Members Posts: 3,604
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    Uhm. No one really cares.



    Tour officials say they do but quite literally no one ever gets penalized, so then who really cares?? As a viewer, i could care less if a professional round of golf takes 5 hours. And for those who think it’s bad for Joe Golfer to see slow play on TV and will mimic the same behavior on their local goat track, that barn has already left the station so no going back to fix that one. Press and media don’t care either.
    Posted:
  • ORTORT  248Members Posts: 248
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    1. 5 quart jugs of 0-40 mobile one. $25.47






    The oil is a deal that you can't turn down, that is the one item I keep going back for.
    Posted:
  • LokiLoki  1209Members Posts: 1,209
    Joined:  #36
    Again...the tour is run by the players, talk about speeding up play will NEVER go beyond that.
    Posted:
  • tideridertiderider  2529Members Posts: 2,529
    Joined:  #37
    Loki wrote:


    Again...the tour is run by the players, talk about speeding up play will NEVER go beyond that.




    this ... seems as if a few more are complaining about it each year, but until it impacts a large percentage, nothing will be done ... and i think most of the 'argument' from amateurs is because of slow play on the weekends, not because of the tour ... that's a completely separate issue ...
    Posted:
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  • 80sFredriksson80sFredriksson  488Members Posts: 488
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    They wont do anything until we stop watching and a survey gets them the message that it is to slow.
    Posted:
  • jacks123jacks123  10Members Posts: 10
    Joined:  #39
    1. Enforce ready golf (if you're ready, you hit, even if it isn't your turn).

    2. Have the people who record the stats with each group also record how many times someone played out of turn for each player (ie. how many times each player wasn't ready when their playing partners were).

    3. Turn this data into a "#times not ready per round" stat.

    4. Shame.
    Posted:
  • MtlJeffMtlJeff Montreal 28911Members Posts: 28,911
    Joined:  #40

    MtlJeff wrote:



    I don't think the Tour is motivated to speed up play. If anything, it's the opposite.



    Longer rounds=more commercial breaks=more ad revenue opportunity=bigger TV deals




    I agree that until there is pushback for network space from other more successful programs, there is zero incentive for the tour to care about pace. They have the time slot already booked and it seems to be profitable for the networks and the tour.



    Now if the second coming of Seinfeld comes on at 7 every Saturday and Sunday, and golf is always running late...there could be problems




    I think they care and probably the network more so when they go over the time slot. CBS or whoever probably doesn't want the final round coverage of the Valspar running into 60 minutes. I also think commercial time is cheaper outside the time slot so they're losing money on that as well.



    In general though, golf broadcasts are probably way too long for casual viewers and even if they're just watching when the leaders go off 4+ hours cruises way past what most sports fans' sweet zone is for time allotment watching a sporting event.




    I was actually surprised at 60 Minutes ratings LOL. Yeah they probably don't want it happening every week but i don't think it is. Maybe if they were going 30 minutes over every week there'd be some pushback



    I'm still uncertain that if the leaders played in 4 hours instead of 5 that this would actually make more money for the tour (which is the main motivator for anything). The argument would have to be this would lead to more viewers, but i think that's a tough argument as even 4 hours is still longer than a football game
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  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OH 7259Members Posts: 7,259
    Joined:  edited Mar 3, 2019 9:06am #41



    Why is everyone bringing up TV? It's totally irrelevant to TV.



    If they actually start playing faster and finishing quicker the tour simply moves the tee times back in the day a few minutes to fit into the desired end time for the networks.



    If the coverage is supposed to end at 6:00 pm it is incredibly easy for the Tour to guess when the last group should tee off. They have been doing it for decades.



    The positive thing for the viewer would be we could see the leaders play an extra hole or two.




    Totally irrelevant?



    The normal TV slot on the big network (NBC, CBS) on Saturday/Sunday is 4 hours, right?



    If you cut the rounds to 4 hours, you only have around 4 hours of golf from the leaders and marquee players to work with (put into the TV slot).



    Now, factor in Golf Channel and streaming services that go outside of the main 4 hour network slot.



    Golf Channel can just kiss their ~2 hours of live weekend golf coverage goodbye (like what's airing right now)? I'm sure they will be happy about that : )



    Having more total hours of golf to work with means they can spread it across more networks and have more material to work with. It's like having 10 episodes of a popular TV show vs. 7 episodes. 10 episodes will always make more money assuming a similar amount of viewers.



    Not to mention Major Championships where the big networks extend the coverage from 4 hours to 5-8. These are the biggest money makers of the year for everyone, and they will not be excited about shrinking the rounds/commercial opportunities.






    The normal network slot is 3 to 3.5 hours.



    Today the slot is 3 hours, next sunday it’s 3.5.



    Today they are planning on having the lead group play in just under 4.5 hours and they are in twosomes. The last group tees off at 1:35 and are expected to be done before 6:00. Yesterday they got it pretty close. The lead group finished at 5:50 and they had ten minutes of fluff to fill.



    If you forced them into 4 hour rounds the golf channel would still have plenty of programming before the network slot. They start teeing off today at 8:41 am. Obviously no one wants to see the guys fight for last place, but they will always have decent golf to cover 2 or 3 hours before the networks start their coverage if they choose to.



    But as nearly everyone has brought up, speeding up play is not directly doing anything for anyone involved to make more money, EXCEPT that it improves the “product” from a viewing standpoint. Even the most diehard golf fans, those of us on this board, are fed up with the super slow pokes. We have all noticed that the “product” is slipping in quality because it’s becoming painful to watch some of these A-holes take a minute or more to hit every shot.



    If WE, the hardcores, are fed up with watching the really slow players how does the avaerage “casual” golf fan feel about it? It s very hard to directly point to a correlation, but at some point ratings drop. Have they started to? Yes. Can you prove it’s slow play? No. With that said, the decision makers at the PGA Tour offices arent stupid. They know the product is slipping and the ratings are slipping. At some point they will do something about it.



    The one giant thing that has saved them is Tigers return. Every week he plays the ratings massively spike back up again. In a perfectly “fair” distribution of TV revenue, The Tour and the networks should actually be paying him millions in appearance fees every time he tees it up.
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  • callawayjaycallawayjay Goofiest Left Handed Swing Ever  1660Members Posts: 1,660
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    If a group comes in 16-19 minutes after the group in front, the late group gets assessed a 1 stroke penalty. If it’s 25+ minutes then it’s 2 strokes. Keep up with the group in front of you. Simple
    Posted:
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  • Kale_mKale_m  2153Members Posts: 2,153
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    Curling has the same thing. A shot clock
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  • Jc0Jc0 Chicago 1950Members Posts: 1,950
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    If a group comes in 16-19 minutes after the group in front, the late group gets assessed a 1 stroke penalty. If it’s 25+ minutes then it’s 2 strokes. Keep up with the group in front of you. Simple




    Not that simple though. Let say the front group has three players shoot 67, 68, 69 while the group behind shoots 75, 76, 77. The later group had 24 more shots than the group in front of them yet are expected to play just as fast? That also does account for ball searches and other things that can happen in a normal poor round.
    Posted:
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter  3479Members Posts: 3,479
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    I honestly don't understand why the general public is concerned with the pace of play on the PGA Tour.
    Posted:
  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU  8623Members Posts: 8,623
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    Hawkeye77 wrote:
    Adding “secondary drama” would seem to be a weak reason to add or even show some kind of running shot clock during a professional golf tournament. Enforce the rules they have or don’t. Doesn’t really matter that much how long they take, cameras go looking for someone ready to hit anyway.




    which is typically a bunch of people on greens putting. That has always been my biggest complaint. Too much time spent on putting. Or stupid side storied.
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  • callawayjaycallawayjay Goofiest Left Handed Swing Ever  1660Members Posts: 1,660
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    Jc0 wrote:



    If a group comes in 16-19 minutes after the group in front, the late group gets assessed a 1 stroke penalty. If it’s 25+ minutes then it’s 2 strokes. Keep up with the group in front of you. Simple




    Not that simple though. Let say the front group has three players shoot 67, 68, 69 while the group behind shoots 75, 76, 77. The later group had 24 more shots than the group in front of them yet are expected to play just as fast? That also does account for ball searches and other things that can happen in a normal poor round.




    Concessions can be made for things like that but I play in stroke play events for $$$ and that’s the rule. Keep up with the group in front
    Posted:
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  • golfer07840golfer07840 Smart ass from Northwest NJ 1818Members Posts: 1,818
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    buckeye440 wrote:


    I think a way to cut down on time is to make players finish out once they play on the green. Nothing worse than watching some guy mark from 2 ft and then his partner plays. Also, I do not get how these guys wait for the other guy to hit, then get yardage and club, then practice swings, and finally hit. Once one guy plays, then next should be hitting his shot within 30 seconds. I get that sometimes this can not be done, but most of the time it can easily be done. Half the time, my friends and I hit while the others' ball is still in the air.




    I admit I don't get this either. Be ready to play.



    I blame the Bob Rotella's of the world for this. Getting yardage and club out is all part of their pre-shot routine now.
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  • FrostfieldFrostfield  932Members Posts: 932
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    18” ring around the hole. Inside of that is a gimme.
    Posted:
  • aliikanealiikane  1685Members Posts: 1,685
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    Just letting the pro tours use laser range finders would speed up play a lot. The players/caddies spend a lot of time just getting yardages especially when out of position because they have to pace off yardages that are far from any markers.
    Posted:
  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area. 25140ClubWRX Posts: 25,140
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    MtlJeff wrote:



    I don't think the Tour is motivated to speed up play. If anything, it's the opposite.



    Longer rounds=more commercial breaks=more ad revenue opportunity=bigger TV deals




    I agree that until there is pushback for network space from other more successful programs, there is zero incentive for the tour to care about pace. They have the time slot already booked and it seems to be profitable for the networks and the tour.



    Now if the second coming of Seinfeld comes on at 7 every Saturday and Sunday, and golf is always running late...there could be problems




    The tour cares about filling their window for coverage...nothing more, nothing less. Yesterday's finish at 4:51 CST/5:51 EST gave them 9 minutes to neatly wrap a bow on the coverage and fit the window.



    Raise your hand if you think MJ is "Master of his Domain."
    Posted:
  • HoosierMizunoHoosierMizuno  3477Members Posts: 3,477
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    I honestly don't understand why the general public is concerned with the pace of play on the PGA Tour.




    because how the pros act and go about their business trickles down to all levels of golf. competitive amateurs in college or younger think its ok to take 3 minutes prior to a shot, or mark their putt and align their line to the hole from a foot and half.





    of all the sports on tv i think golf is covered the absolute worst. last weeks coverage was awful. the producers are abusing the playing through segments by running non stop commericals followed then by the playing through garbage. neither fowler nor koepka final tee shot was covered. this is ridiculous. tv coverage has awful camera angles, unless you like the ball with the sky backdrop. i watch on dvr, and it seemed as soon as i ff to golf, i could barely set the remote down for 20 seconds before needing to ff again.



    another member got it right. tiger is saving the ratings right now. if we get this same product when he's gone, i can't imagine what kid or new golfer tunes into golf if they can't even make it interesting for those who love the game.
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  • ray9898ray9898  846Members Posts: 846
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    I don't understand why so many people care about how the tour runs their tournaments. They are a made for TV entertainment product who makes their players millionaires, not a speed golf organization. Their #1 goal is making that product as profitable as possible while fulfilling their TV contracts.
    Posted:
  • jmkenn0jmkenn0  762Members Posts: 762
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    Each player has a person that carries a shot clock for each player, and a referee that starts each players shot clock. No penalties assessed, but after 30 seconds, the gallery is free to yell whatever they want without repercussion image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
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  • raynorfan1raynorfan1  3791Members Posts: 3,791
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    PGA Tour golf is basically the only time I don’t care about pace of play.



    You almost never watch a complete round by a single pairing - it’s effectively a highlights show. What does it matter how long it takes?



    I would argue that they need to do better TV production so that we’re not watching endless routines. But that’s on NBC more than the players.
    Posted:
  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 Austin 6334Members Posts: 6,334
    Joined:  #56
    Jc0 wrote:


    So I was thinking of an idea for speeding up play (tour only) and the idea I came up with was similar to a chess clock.




    Why do you want to speed up Tour play?
    Posted:
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter  3479Members Posts: 3,479
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    I honestly don't understand why the general public is concerned with the pace of play on the PGA Tour.




    because how the pros act and go about their business trickles down to all levels of golf. competitive amateurs in college or younger think its ok to take 3 minutes prior to a shot, or mark their putt and align their line to the hole from a foot and half.





    of all the sports on tv i think golf is covered the absolute worst. last weeks coverage was awful. the producers are abusing the playing through segments by running non stop commericals followed then by the playing through garbage. neither fowler nor koepka final tee shot was covered. this is ridiculous. tv coverage has awful camera angles, unless you like the ball with the sky backdrop. i watch on dvr, and it seemed as soon as i ff to golf, i could barely set the remote down for 20 seconds before needing to ff again.



    another member got it right. tiger is saving the ratings right now. if we get this same product when he's gone, i can't imagine what kid or new golfer tunes into golf if they can't even make it interesting for those who love the game.




    Again... who cares what competitive players do on TV? Every one is an individual and guys are going to play slow no matter what they see on TV. If the tour thought it was a problem, they would have stopped it long ago.



    I have juniors that play competitive golf. With my son, he has only ran into really slow players twice and he plays a lot of competitive golf.



    The issue of slow play isn't with competitive golfers.
    Posted:
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  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 Austin 6334Members Posts: 6,334
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    I honestly don't understand why the general public is concerned with the pace of play on the PGA Tour.




    because how the pros act and go about their business trickles down to all levels of golf. competitive amateurs in college or younger think its ok to take 3 minutes prior to a shot, or mark their putt and align their line to the hole from a foot and half.




    Nobody on the Tour takes 3 minutes prior to a shot to mark their ball and align their line.



    Solving the pace of play issue at the amateur level is very easy and has nothing to do with how the guys on TV play.



    And why do you care how slow college golfers play?
    Posted:
  • Carl Spackler3Carl Spackler3  1136Members Posts: 1,136
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    I followed a group at the Honda from tee to green to see pro real time pace of play, while waiting in the seventh fairway 4 minutes for player A to hit, I accidentally screamed out at the top of my lungs,” hurry the #$&% up”. ....we laughed and laughed........... I need bail money
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  • AndersUKAndersUK  247Members Posts: 247
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    I like this idea. The main issue being resources to time every player so I would give each player a device and make them start and stop it. Any player found to be cheating would then incur penalty strokes or DQ.
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  • ClintDaggerClintDagger  580Members Posts: 580
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    I honestly don't understand why the general public is concerned with the pace of play on the PGA Tour.




    because how the pros act and go about their business trickles down to all levels of golf. competitive amateurs in college or younger think its ok to take 3 minutes prior to a shot, or mark their putt and align their line to the hole from a foot and half.





    of all the sports on tv i think golf is covered the absolute worst. last weeks coverage was awful. the producers are abusing the playing through segments by running non stop commericals followed then by the playing through garbage. neither fowler nor koepka final tee shot was covered. this is ridiculous. tv coverage has awful camera angles, unless you like the ball with the sky backdrop. i watch on dvr, and it seemed as soon as i ff to golf, i could barely set the remote down for 20 seconds before needing to ff again.



    another member got it right. tiger is saving the ratings right now. if we get this same product when he's gone, i can't imagine what kid or new golfer tunes into golf if they can't even make it interesting for those who love the game.




    Again... who cares what competitive players do on TV? Every one is an individual and guys are going to play slow no matter what they see on TV. If the tour thought it was a problem, they would have stopped it long ago.



    I have juniors that play competitive golf. With my son, he has only ran into really slow players twice and he plays a lot of competitive golf.



    The issue of slow play isn't with competitive golfers.


    Televised golf is an entertainment product. For some people, it’s hard to watch the players with long or slow pre shot routines. Yeah you can get around some of that with production and direction but a lot of it still makes its way to the screen. There’s a reason why the NBA has to blare house music and sound effects during each possession. Theres a reason why MLB is looking seriously at a pitch clock. Attention spans are shorter and shorter with each passing year. Golf is trending in the wrong direction when it comes to the pace of their product and informed fans like us here at WRX certainly notice it even if it bothers some and doesn’t bother others.



    So while I can understand some people not caring about pace of play on the tour, I think it’s disingenuous to not understand why others do care about it.
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