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Why do some kids never move on to higher level

tiger1873tiger1873 Advanced Members Posts: 930 ✭✭
Ok we been playing junior tournaments for long enough to see a lot things. We always moved on to higher levels when it made sense for development.



Just getting into rankings and I notice that some kids we played with over the years are not there. Some these kids are very good or at least were and I would expect the parents to move them on to 2 day events at least. These are parents who play a lot tournaments so they understand that you need to get ranking or at least should have heard this by now.



I went back looked up some them and good number are just still doing 1 day events. We talking about girls that in some cases are 2022 and 2023 that never play ranked events but get 70's on 1 day events. They still play the same courses that they did as young kids.



In other cases I see parents keeping the kids back in lower divisions because they win more often. Again not good for the kid.

once a kid hits 12 you need to pursue ranking and understand you can't win ever event.



I understand doing one day events if a kid not ready but these kids have played for years and by now should have no problem playing 2 day events and actually win or place high on a state level.
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  • dpb5031dpb5031 Advanced Members Posts: 4,935 ✭✭
    Tiger, you start a lot of threads about junior golf and I've enjoyed some of those discussions, but honestly, I often can't tell if you're asking a question/seeking advice, or giving it...lol? 😏



    Perhaps the junior players and their families that you're referencing just aren't "all-in" on golf. Seems like you are very invested in your child's golf pursuits, but not every parent is going to share the same passion and motivation, and more still won't take the time to develop the wherewithal needed to navigate the junior golf scene.



    IMO, the kids who ultimately become the best players are self-motivated, passionate, and willing to sacrifice. Children of pushy parents typically only make it so far, but of course there needs to be a balance as kids can't do it without a decent amount of parental support.
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  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members Posts: 59
    I know its only one day. Just a big difference between locking up the entire weekend for a 2 day event vs a Saturday or Sunday.



    like @dpb5031 said really depends on the kid.
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  • tiger1873tiger1873 Advanced Members Posts: 930 ✭✭
    edited March 5
    dpb5031 wrote:


    Tiger, you start a lot of threads about junior golf and I've enjoyed some of those discussions, but honestly, I often can't tell if you're asking a question/seeking advice, or giving it...lol? ��






    Honestly it is a bit both because I don't think everyone always understand why you need to have ranking. Also my daughter is just starting to play tournaments that are being ranked. I know for a fact that not every kid is ranked and like everyone I am trying to figure out how rankings work. The more I learn about it the more confused I get about rankings especially JGS rankings.



    I will be the first to admit I care much more about rankings than I should. I think we all do. They probably don't matter as much as we all think they do but I also know they are important and not always fair.



    I am trying to figure out why parents who are all in are not even trying to play ranked tournaments. I know they're all in because they play every weekend and have for years and even in some cases home school for golf so they can practice.



    I think in some cases both the kids and parents don't like losing so they don't pursue harder tournaments. From experience moving up to playing bigger tournaments is very nerve racking you basically start at the bottom and work your way up. Like you said some kids don't have the motivation to start at the bottom.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • BrianMcGBrianMcG Advanced Members Posts: 2,130 ✭✭
    They chose their parents poorly.
    Walter: Tell me Bobby, why do you play this game?
    Bobby: I play because I love it.
    Walter: Well I play for the money. I have to win. That is why every time we face each other I will always beat you.
  • leezer99leezer99 Advanced Members Posts: 892 ✭✭
    If the parents don't feel a kid is ready they might be holding them back until they feel they are ready. I suppose it goes back to, is it better to be ranked poorly or not at all?
  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members Posts: 59
    If you listen to the two day tournament directors. They will tell you your child needs to be in every JGS event.



    Let the kids be kids. If they want to pursue a higher level they will ask.



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  • kcapkcap Advanced Members Posts: 137
    tiger1873 wrote:

    dpb5031 wrote:


    Tiger, you start a lot of threads about junior golf and I've enjoyed some of those discussions, but honestly, I often can't tell if you're asking a question/seeking advice, or giving it...lol? ��






    Honestly it is a bit both because I don't think everyone always understand why you need to have ranking. Also my daughter is just starting to play tournaments that are being ranked. I know for a fact that not every kid is ranked and like you said and like everyone I trying to figure out rankings. The more I learn about it the more confused I get about rankings especially JGS rankings.



    I will be the first to admit I care much more about rankings than I should. I think we all do. They probably don't matter as much as we all think they do but I also know they are important and not always fair.



    I am trying to figure out why parents who are all in are not even trying to play ranked tournaments. I know they're all in because they play every weekend and have for years and even in some cases home school for golf so they can practice.



    I think in some cases both the kids and parents don't like losing so they don't pursue harder tournaments. From experience moving up to playing bigger tournaments is very nerve racking you basically start at the bottom and work your way up. Like you said some kids don't have the motivation to start at the bottom.


    Have you ever considered asking them? From your comments, it appears you know the parents/families for a few years. I am sure you will get a lot more insight from the horse's mouth then a bunch of anonymous posters on a junior golf chat.
  • PetethreeputPetethreeput Advanced Members Posts: 1,407 ✭✭
    From the parents perspective? Money, interest in golf, expectations of what a child should be doing, realization that touring as a youth is the insidious monetization of youth sports without any guarantees of athletic success in the future, or they believe a well rounded child playing multiple sports is the better path.



    Kids perspective? ****, drugs, rock n roll, music lessons, baseball, soccer, friends, school, video games, don’t like playing competitive sports.



    Rankings are different than playing a sport. A kid who doesn’t play in AJGA events but still plays high school and wins high school tournaments often enough, the college coach will find them. Rankings are the ESPNization of youth sport (formerly referred to as monetization).



    So these same parents may be asking why you continue to trudge on? It’s personal choice based on the parents situation and the kids interest.
  • dpb5031dpb5031 Advanced Members Posts: 4,935 ✭✭


    I know its only one day. Just a big difference between locking up the entire weekend for a 2 day event vs a Saturday or Sunday.



    like @dpb5031 said really depends on the kid.




    Theres a junior Tour in NJ (JGA Tour) run by a great guy named John Petronis. He combines 2 single day tournaments on successive weekends to meet rankings requirements. This was very convenient for us when my daughter was younger and we were trying to balance competing interests and obligations.
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  • tiger1873tiger1873 Advanced Members Posts: 930 ✭✭
    edited March 5
    leezer99 wrote:


    If the parents don't feel a kid is ready they might be holding them back until they feel they are ready. I suppose it goes back to, is it better to be ranked poorly or not at all?




    I agree with that but if you are not ranked and a 2023 graduate then your way behind. I am also not talking about kids scoring in the 90's or 100's in those cases I would say hold off and work on their game better. In some of the cases we are talking about girls scoring in the low 70's so even playing local 2 day events there ranking is going to be ok for their age. The scores are low enough to actually win a lot events if they did it 2 days in a row.
  • Golfingdawg19Golfingdawg19 Advanced Members Posts: 328 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:


    Ok we been playing junior tournaments for long enough to see a lot things. We always moved on to higher levels when it made sense for development.



    Just getting into rankings and I notice that some kids we played with over the years are not there. Some these kids are very good or at least were and I would expect the parents to move them on to 2 day events at least. These are parents who play a lot tournaments so they understand that you need to get ranking or at least should have heard this by now.



    I went back looked up some them and good number are just still doing 1 day events. We talking about girls that in some cases are 2022 and 2023 that never play ranked events but get 70's on 1 day events. They still play the same courses that they did as young kids.



    In other cases I see parents keeping the kids back in lower divisions because they win more often. Again not good for the kid.

    once a kid hits 12 you need to pursue ranking and understand you can't win ever event.



    I understand doing one day events if a kid not ready but these kids have played for years and by now should have no problem playing 2 day events and actually win or place high on a state level.








    Two theories that you see from different individuals on junior golf:

    1) Some look at junior golf and say that things don't realty matter until they get about 13-14. Spending all the money on tournaments and travel doesn't really matter at the younger ages because colleges don't look at that. The younger ages are building blocks for later in their golf career so don't take things so seriously. Many will argue that rushing kids to the higher levels actually causes them to regress. They feel like a kid should dominate at the lower levels before moving up. Kids need to get use to shooting low scores from shorter distances to build confidence.



    2) Then you have the other folks that are concerned about winning and rankings now. They assume everything is an arms race and you have to do what everyone else does or you are getting behind. These parents feel like the top kids at the younger ages will also develop into the top kids as they are older. They are usually the ones who have their kids specialize in just golf. Many of them even home school their kids so they can practice as much as possible.



    My guess is the parents that you refer to fall into mindset number one and you fall into mindset number 2.
  • thelefthandedgolferthelefthandedgolfer Lefty Boomers Posts: 16
    tiger1873 wrote:




    I agree with that but if you are not ranked and a 2023 graduate then your way behind. I am also not talking about kids scoring in the 90's or 100's in those cases I would say hold off and work on their game better. In some of the cases we are talking about girls scoring in the low 70's so even playing local 2 day events there ranking is going to be ok for their age. The scores are low enough to actually win a lot events if they did it 2 days in a row.



    tiger1873 wrote:




    In other cases I see parents keeping the kids back in lower divisions because they win more often. Again not good for the kid.

    once a kid hits 12 you need to pursue ranking and understand you can't win ever event.






    I'm not sure it matters what anyone else has to say...



    Every family and child has different circumstances and personalities. Children mature at different rates and some simply aren't ready for 36 holes yet. In other cases, parents don't know anything about the rankings or care. Finally, consider this crazy thought....their kid doesn't want to play 12 hours of golf in a weekend.



    The only reason someone asks the question you are posing is because they are afraid they are missing out on something. In that case, ask the question and listen to the answers and apply them to your own situation. It's counterintuitive to ask a question and then provide your own answers to the replies.
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Advanced Members Posts: 254

    tiger1873 wrote:




    I agree with that but if you are not ranked and a 2023 graduate then your way behind. I am also not talking about kids scoring in the 90's or 100's in those cases I would say hold off and work on their game better. In some of the cases we are talking about girls scoring in the low 70's so even playing local 2 day events there ranking is going to be ok for their age. The scores are low enough to actually win a lot events if they did it 2 days in a row.



    tiger1873 wrote:




    In other cases I see parents keeping the kids back in lower divisions because they win more often. Again not good for the kid.

    once a kid hits 12 you need to pursue ranking and understand you can't win ever event.






    I'm not sure it matters what anyone else has to say...



    Every family and child has different circumstances and personalities. Children mature at different rates and some simply aren't ready for 36 holes yet. In other cases, parents don't know anything about the rankings or care. Finally, consider this crazy thought....their kid doesn't want to play 12 hours of golf in a weekend.



    The only reason someone asks the question you are posing is because they are afraid they are missing out on something. In that case, ask the question and listen to the answers and apply them to your own situation. It's counterintuitive to ask a question and then provide your own answers to the replies.




    THIS!
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Advanced Members Posts: 930 ✭✭
    edited March 5

    tiger1873 wrote:


    I agree with that but if you are not ranked and a 2023 graduate then your way behind. I am also not talking about kids scoring in the 90's or 100's in those cases I would say hold off and work on their game better. In some of the cases we are talking about girls scoring in the low 70's so even playing local 2 day events there ranking is going to be ok for their age. The scores are low enough to actually win a lot events if they did it 2 days in a row.



    tiger1873 wrote:


    In other cases I see parents keeping the kids back in lower divisions because they win more often. Again not good for the kid.

    once a kid hits 12 you need to pursue ranking and understand you can't win ever event.






    I'm not sure it matters what anyone else has to say...



    Every family and child has different circumstances and personalities. Children mature at different rates and some simply aren't ready for 36 holes yet. In other cases, parents don't know anything about the rankings or care. Finally, consider this crazy thought....their kid doesn't want to play 12 hours of golf in a weekend.



    The only reason someone asks the question you are posing is because they are afraid they are missing out on something. In that case, ask the question and listen to the answers and apply them to your own situation. It's counterintuitive to ask a question and then provide your own answers to the replies.




    I already know ranking is important and in junior golf it is something you need to understand. Most of us know this already this.



    My only question is are we going to see these kids ever again? I have theories on why there are not but I suspect we will not see them again so they are not going to be a factor in rankings in the next few years when it matters. I wondering if others have seen the same thing with people they played with.



    To me it seems crazy to delay playing in multi-day events because there very different then a 1 day tournament because every shot counts over multiple days. It takes a few tournaments for kids to learn every stroke matters.
  • kcapkcap Advanced Members Posts: 137
    I don’t get it! If you already know then why ask.



    If you are not going to see them again then why bother!!



    Also who care if you will see kids again or not; focus on your child and develop him/her cause you don’t which could/competition is around the corner.



    I always tell my kids.. practice hard/smart and try your best, the rest will take care of itself.

  • PetethreeputPetethreeput Advanced Members Posts: 1,407 ✭✭
    The better question to ask is:

    Why does the ranking matter? The only function of ranking is external. The ranking alerts college coaches and "scouts" to watch kids play golf. There is no intrinsic need for rankings. The logical progression if the last sentence is true is this; a ranking's only purpose is either a future college scholarship (money) or sponsorships (again money).

    Maybe these two reasons aren't important to the parent. Maybe it isn't important to the kid (this I can almost guarantee).



    I walked this path in a different sport as a kid, and personally i wanted to insure my kids enjoyed the game. My goal was to have my kids play the sport for as long as they wanted. Meaning, they would have the ability to not get cut from a team before they were ready to quit. My anecdotal perspective is the most competitive coaches and parents are those whose athletic careers were cut short before they were ready to hang em up.



    Its a pretty harsh assessment for sure, and while i am sure in some capacity it is offensive to people, the real question is, "Why does a junior ranking matter to ME?"
  • SixcatSixcat Advanced Members Posts: 1,408 ✭✭
    I have two examples in my family. My daughter began playing golf at about age 7. She was able to get so far but hanging out with her friends and having other experiences besides golf became more important to her than golf. She took up playing the Mandolin and is on the middle school track team. She has also tried competitive swimming, basketball, soccer and softball. I think it's great. I want her to be happy and couldn't care less if she plays golf. If she is happy and healthy, I am a proud and happy father!



    My nephew began playing baseball at about age 6. It got to the point he was playing 300 games per year all over the country without anything resembling free time. He was an excellent catcher and started getting the attention of some ACC and SEC baseball programs by the beginning of high school. At which point, he burned out and hasn't played baseball since. My brother has been nothing short of supportive. My nephew is happy, healthy and enjoying what little time he has left being a kid.



    As parents, we should be careful not to live our childhood regrets through our children! Let them be who they are, not who we may want them to be!
  • thelefthandedgolferthelefthandedgolfer Lefty Boomers Posts: 16
    tiger1873 wrote:




    My only question is are we going to see these kids ever again? I suspect we will not see them again so they are not going to be a factor in rankings in the next few years when it matters.






    If they are scoring in the low 70's, you will see them again. They will be well rested and their parents will have saved some money from not playing every ranked tournament they could find with a high course rating and 5 or more kids.
  • tatertottatertot Advanced Members Posts: 4,226 ✭✭
    Sixcat wrote:


    I have two examples in my family. My daughter began playing golf at about age 7. She was able to get so far but hanging out with her friends and having other experiences besides golf became more important to her than golf. She took up playing the Mandolin and is on the middle school track team. She has also tried competitive swimming, basketball, soccer and softball. I think it's great. I want her to be happy and couldn't care less if she plays golf. If she is happy and healthy, I am a proud and happy father!



    My nephew began playing baseball at about age 6. It got to the point he was playing 300 games per year all over the country without anything resembling free time. He was an excellent catcher and started getting the attention of some ACC and SEC baseball programs by the beginning of high school. At which point, he burned out and hasn't played baseball since. My brother has been nothing short of supportive. My nephew is happy, healthy and enjoying what little time he has left being a kid.



    As parents, we should be careful not to live our childhood regrets through our children! Let them be who they are, not who we may want them to be!




    Wish I could like this more than once ... Parents, please let your kids be kids. They shouldn't be working on college scholarships at age 6. The they'll never be a kid again. They'll have years and years to earn money and do plenty of "adult" things with adult responsibilities. Give them opportunities, but let them decide if they want to take them.
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  • bulls9999bulls9999 Advanced Members Posts: 629 ✭✭
    edited March 5
    I remember when my son was in junior tournaments in OK, there was the Southern Section PGA which ran 1-day tournaments that included several (2-3/summer) 2-day tournaments. At about the same time, the OJGT started up and they were only 2-day (Sat-Sun) tournaments. As a parent who was looking to see my son 'got credit' for the 2-day tournaments on Junior Golf Scoreboard, I was miffed when the PGA series wasn't submitting the scores. I asked JGS why my son's 2-day tournaments weren't showing up and he said, yes the 2-day tournaments are eligible but the scores are not being submitted by the tournament director...what?. I bugged the tournament director to the point of annoyance about that and just concluded it was pure laziness on his part.... imagine, he could have been getting 'his kids' in his tournament series national accreditation for their tournament scoring, but wasn't because too lazy to submit an email spreadsheet with name, town, scores.....nothing more than what you'd likely have to keep track for your own tournaments; at the time I was bugging him, I even brought up the same thing, using back-to-back 1-day tournaments in different towns as "2-day" tournaments to get more scores reported. After parents were discussing these during tournaments, a host of kids left that series, including mine, for the OJGT 2-day series where the interest was in promoting the kids results. I remember having a discussion with our club pro who was on the board of the sectional PGA at the time and 'let him have it how his section failed the kids in the program'....he went and made the case and they got a younger guy involved with junior tournaments who revamped the sectional program. Glad to see that was done eventually. And yea, the 2-day weekend tournaments presented their own issues as some kids/parents were able to play every weekend and accrue points, whereas those who played even half were losing ground to get into the final tournament of champions....but that's life.


    dpb5031 wrote:



    I know its only one day. Just a big difference between locking up the entire weekend for a 2 day event vs a Saturday or Sunday.



    like @dpb5031 said really depends on the kid.




    Theres a junior Tour in NJ (JGA Tour) run by a great guy named John Petronis. He combines 2 single day tournaments on successive weekends to meet rankings requirements. This was very convenient for us when my daughter was younger and we were trying to balance competing interests and obligations.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • NolesNoles Advanced Members Posts: 1,416 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:


    tiger1873 wrote:


    I agree with that but if you are not ranked and a 2023 graduate then your way behind. I am also not talking about kids scoring in the 90's or 100's in those cases I would say hold off and work on their game better. In some of the cases we are talking about girls scoring in the low 70's so even playing local 2 day events there ranking is going to be ok for their age. The scores are low enough to actually win a lot events if they did it 2 days in a row.



    tiger1873 wrote:


    In other cases I see parents keeping the kids back in lower divisions because they win more often. Again not good for the kid.

    once a kid hits 12 you need to pursue ranking and understand you can't win ever event.






    I'm not sure it matters what anyone else has to say...



    Every family and child has different circumstances and personalities. Children mature at different rates and some simply aren't ready for 36 holes yet. In other cases, parents don't know anything about the rankings or care. Finally, consider this crazy thought....their kid doesn't want to play 12 hours of golf in a weekend.



    The only reason someone asks the question you are posing is because they are afraid they are missing out on something. In that case, ask the question and listen to the answers and apply them to your own situation. It's counterintuitive to ask a question and then provide your own answers to the replies.




    I already know ranking is important and in junior golf it is something you need to understand. Most of us know this already this.



    My only question is are we going to see these kids ever again? I have theories on why there are not but I suspect we will not see them again so they are not going to be a factor in rankings in the next few years when it matters. I wondering if others have seen the same thing with people they played with.



    To me it seems crazy to delay playing in multi-day events because there very different then a 1 day tournament because every shot counts over multiple days. It takes a few tournaments for kids to learn every stroke matters.
    It all depends on a person"s goals or desires.
  • tatertottatertot Advanced Members Posts: 4,226 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:


    Ok we been playing junior tournaments for long enough to see a lot things. We always moved on to higher levels when it made sense for development.



    Just getting into rankings and I notice that some kids we played with over the years are not there. Some these kids are very good or at least were and I would expect the parents to move them on to 2 day events at least. These are parents who play a lot tournaments so they understand that you need to get ranking or at least should have heard this by now.



    I went back looked up some them and good number are just still doing 1 day events. We talking about girls that in some cases are 2022 and 2023 that never play ranked events but get 70's on 1 day events. They still play the same courses that they did as young kids.



    In other cases I see parents keeping the kids back in lower divisions because they win more often. Again not good for the kid.

    once a kid hits 12 you need to pursue ranking and understand you can't win ever event.



    I understand doing one day events if a kid not ready but these kids have played for years and by now should have no problem playing 2 day events and actually win or place high on a state level.




    Wow ... You make a lot of assumptions about other people's children and lives.



    This is going to come as a shock to you, but not everybody has the same goals and values as you. And they don't feel the need to do the same things you do. Therefore, they make different decisions than you. Might take a moment and try to take a look at the world from a different perspective occasionally and realize you aren't the center of the universe.
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  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Advanced Members Posts: 3,503 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:


    I agree with that but if you are not ranked and a 2023 graduate then your way behind.




    Way behind what?



    The specific plan that you have for your child may be different for other people. It's undoubtedly true that such kids are behind what you've formulated as your ideal plan.



    But if you had a kid who never played a "ranked" tournament, but came out of nowhere as a Junior/Senior to win everything, it's not like college coaches (and others) are going to ignore them because they haven't been ranked since they were 8 years old.
  • wildcatdenwildcatden China Cat Sunflower Advanced Members Posts: 741 ✭✭
    When my kid was 6, I was initially grasped by the "possibilities" of my kid becoming a golf star. I would even admit to pushing too much. It was stupid, stupid, stupid of me. I then came to know this forum and the good advice that you often receive here. Letting your kid be a kid and supporting them and allowing them to explore and experience as much as they can is priority #1.



    Is my kid going to be a golf star? A baseball star? A scientist? A financial wizard? It will happen in due time. The only thing I can really ask of my kid is to give 100% effort into whatever endeavor he is trying out at the moment.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Advanced Members Posts: 930 ✭✭
    raynorfan1 wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:


    I agree with that but if you are not ranked and a 2023 graduate then your way behind.




    Way behind what?



    The specific plan that you have for your child may be different for other people. It's undoubtedly true that such kids are behind what you've formulated as your ideal plan.



    But if you had a kid who never played a "ranked" tournament, but came out of nowhere as a Junior/Senior to win everything, it's not like college coaches (and others) are going to ignore them because they haven't been ranked since they were 8 years old.




    I don't think you understand how rankings work. You are not going to come out of nowhere by winning 1 tournament. To be honest your not even going to be allowed to play in the tournament that matter in the first place.



    If you're a senior and have not played in ranked JGS tournaments by then the chances of getting a scholarship is slim to none.
  • SixcatSixcat Advanced Members Posts: 1,408 ✭✭
    tatertot wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    I have two examples in my family. My daughter began playing golf at about age 7. She was able to get so far but hanging out with her friends and having other experiences besides golf became more important to her than golf. She took up playing the Mandolin and is on the middle school track team. She has also tried competitive swimming, basketball, soccer and softball. I think it's great. I want her to be happy and couldn't care less if she plays golf. If she is happy and healthy, I am a proud and happy father!



    My nephew began playing baseball at about age 6. It got to the point he was playing 300 games per year all over the country without anything resembling free time. He was an excellent catcher and started getting the attention of some ACC and SEC baseball programs by the beginning of high school. At which point, he burned out and hasn't played baseball since. My brother has been nothing short of supportive. My nephew is happy, healthy and enjoying what little time he has left being a kid.



    As parents, we should be careful not to live our childhood regrets through our children! Let them be who they are, not who we may want them to be!




    Wish I could like this more than once ... Parents, please let your kids be kids. They shouldn't be working on college scholarships at age 6. The they'll never be a kid again. They'll have years and years to earn money and do plenty of "adult" things with adult responsibilities. Give them opportunities, but let them decide if they want to take them.




    I think it would shock some people to learn that 5.4% of all institutional grants and 2.1% of all college grants are athletics based according to the most recent data! Which means no less than 94.6% of all scholarship dollars are academic based and have nothing to do with athletics!
  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Advanced Members Posts: 3,503 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:

    raynorfan1 wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:


    I agree with that but if you are not ranked and a 2023 graduate then your way behind.




    Way behind what?



    The specific plan that you have for your child may be different for other people. It's undoubtedly true that such kids are behind what you've formulated as your ideal plan.



    But if you had a kid who never played a "ranked" tournament, but came out of nowhere as a Junior/Senior to win everything, it's not like college coaches (and others) are going to ignore them because they haven't been ranked since they were 8 years old.




    I don't think you understand how rankings work. You are not going to come out of nowhere by winning 1 tournament. To be honest your not even going to be allowed to play in the tournament that matter in the first place.



    If you're a senior and have not played in ranked JGS tournaments by then the chances of getting a scholarship is slim to none.




    Just hypothetically. If the first and only tournament you ever play in is the Junior Amateur, and you win it, I think you'll get a few offers.



    Is that going to happen? Probably not. But talent can make up a lot of ground quickly.
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Advanced Members Posts: 254
    edited March 5
    tatertot wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    I have two examples in my family. My daughter began playing golf at about age 7. She was able to get so far but hanging out with her friends and having other experiences besides golf became more important to her than golf. She took up playing the Mandolin and is on the middle school track team. She has also tried competitive swimming, basketball, soccer and softball. I think it's great. I want her to be happy and couldn't care less if she plays golf. If she is happy and healthy, I am a proud and happy father!



    My nephew began playing baseball at about age 6. It got to the point he was playing 300 games per year all over the country without anything resembling free time. He was an excellent catcher and started getting the attention of some ACC and SEC baseball programs by the beginning of high school. At which point, he burned out and hasn't played baseball since. My brother has been nothing short of supportive. My nephew is happy, healthy and enjoying what little time he has left being a kid.



    As parents, we should be careful not to live our childhood regrets through our children! Let them be who they are, not who we may want them to be!




    Wish I could like this more than once ... Parents, please let your kids be kids. They shouldn't be working on college scholarships at age 6. The they'll never be a kid again. They'll have years and years to earn money and do plenty of "adult" things with adult responsibilities. Give them opportunities, but let them decide if they want to take them.




    Seriously - if college scholarship is the sole goal, that's a problem. You would have spent more money trying to get your youth good enough and playing tournaments than it would cost to go to that certain college. Not to mention that, in most cases, you would have had to ignore a certain level of education necessary to succeed in college and to get a job in certain high paying industries (which provides an income level much more than barely being on any tour or even being at the top of the lpga tour).



    http://www.espn.com/...rt-lower-levels



    Not to mention that golf is not one of those college sports (e.g., basketball and football) where being good and having certain minimums will get you into a desired school.



    http://www.amateurgo...the-IVY-League-



    But nothing wrong if you're in Tiger's camp and supporting your child's dream of playing for a top college program or going pro. If that's the case, you probably do want to focus on a lot of national tournaments and keep up with the arms race of getting your junior to be the best he/she can be starting at younger ages. Hopefully, it's ultimately the child's dream and not the parents, even if it started as the parent's.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Advanced Members Posts: 930 ✭✭
    edited March 5
    tatertot wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    I have two examples in my family. My daughter began playing golf at about age 7. She was able to get so far but hanging out with her friends and having other experiences besides golf became more important to her than golf. She took up playing the Mandolin and is on the middle school track team. She has also tried competitive swimming, basketball, soccer and softball. I think it's great. I want her to be happy and couldn't care less if she plays golf. If she is happy and healthy, I am a proud and happy father!



    My nephew began playing baseball at about age 6. It got to the point he was playing 300 games per year all over the country without anything resembling free time. He was an excellent catcher and started getting the attention of some ACC and SEC baseball programs by the beginning of high school. At which point, he burned out and hasn't played baseball since. My brother has been nothing short of supportive. My nephew is happy, healthy and enjoying what little time he has left being a kid.



    As parents, we should be careful not to live our childhood regrets through our children! Let them be who they are, not who we may want them to be!




    Wish I could like this more than once ... Parents, please let your kids be kids. They shouldn't be working on college scholarships at age 6. The they'll never be a kid again. They'll have years and years to earn money and do plenty of "adult" things with adult responsibilities. Give them opportunities, but let them decide if they want to take them.




    I really don't think anyone does golf for college scholarships. I do however think a lot people play golf for many reason and those that play golf have a lot doors opened for them and should take advantage of those opportunities. Those doors can mean a lot things too. Also as the kids get older a lot times it is the kids leading the parents into more competitive golf.



    Believe it not some kids crave the competition and will do anything to play more. I actually think that is the norm more as kids get older. This golf stuff is tough and expensive for parents. Kind of jealous of those california parents who can't be a spectator and drop the kids off for the day to play golf.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Advanced Members Posts: 930 ✭✭
    raynorfan1 wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:

    raynorfan1 wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:


    I agree with that but if you are not ranked and a 2023 graduate then your way behind.




    Way behind what?



    The specific plan that you have for your child may be different for other people. It's undoubtedly true that such kids are behind what you've formulated as your ideal plan.



    But if you had a kid who never played a "ranked" tournament, but came out of nowhere as a Junior/Senior to win everything, it's not like college coaches (and others) are going to ignore them because they haven't been ranked since they were 8 years old.




    I don't think you understand how rankings work. You are not going to come out of nowhere by winning 1 tournament. To be honest your not even going to be allowed to play in the tournament that matter in the first place.



    If you're a senior and have not played in ranked JGS tournaments by then the chances of getting a scholarship is slim to none.




    Just hypothetically. If the first and only tournament you ever play in is the Junior Amateur, and you win it, I think you'll get a few offers.



    Is that going to happen? Probably not. But talent can make up a lot of ground quickly.




    Yeh but you're going to have to qualify for that tournament in the first place. To win a tournament like that your going to have be mentally tournament hardy and if you have even played a 2 day local event I highly doubt anyone could realistically achieve that having only played in 1 day events all they're life. There is more to wining tournaments than just skill.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Advanced Members Posts: 930 ✭✭
    raynorfan1 wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:

    raynorfan1 wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:


    I agree with that but if you are not ranked and a 2023 graduate then your way behind.




    Way behind what?



    The specific plan that you have for your child may be different for other people. It's undoubtedly true that such kids are behind what you've formulated as your ideal plan.



    But if you had a kid who never played a "ranked" tournament, but came out of nowhere as a Junior/Senior to win everything, it's not like college coaches (and others) are going to ignore them because they haven't been ranked since they were 8 years old.




    I don't think you understand how rankings work. You are not going to come out of nowhere by winning 1 tournament. To be honest your not even going to be allowed to play in the tournament that matter in the first place.



    If you're a senior and have not played in ranked JGS tournaments by then the chances of getting a scholarship is slim to none.




    Just hypothetically. If the first and only tournament you ever play in is the Junior Amateur, and you win it, I think you'll get a few offers.



    Is that going to happen? Probably not. But talent can make up a lot of ground quickly.




    Yeh but you're going to have to qualify for that tournament in the first place. To win a tournament like that you are going to have be mentally tough and know how to play in tournaments. You only get that from playing tournaments similar in size and importance. I highly doubt anyone could realistically achieve that having only played in 1 day events all they're life. There is more to wining tournaments than just skill.
  • BeerPerHoleBeerPerHole Advanced Members Posts: 1,049 ✭✭
    Puberty.



    In our case, my son is actually a very talented player. But, has gone downhill with his self control (autism) and, lately, has demonstrated a loss of work ethic. I finally told him, "When and if you're ready to be a great player I'll be here to help." and I almost never play with him anymore. Can't make a kid want to play a sport. I really worked at my athletics growing up. I'd run hills whenever I could, lifted weights, actually enjoyed it. I'm realizing now that's very unusual. But, it's really hard to see my boy just squander the game. Perhaps he'll get tired of playing like Tiger did upon his return to the game (very bad joke there...please don't get wound up) and buckle down. But, at this point, I doubt it. So...long answer short...work ethic combined with puberty, social pressures, etc.



    A year ago when we were out on a round celebrating my wife's birthday, our boy got an ace with my whole family standing together on the tee. It was one of the most special moments of our lives. For her birthday this year we're not even having him out - just my wife and I. Breaks my heart something fierce.
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  • kcapkcap Advanced Members Posts: 137


    Puberty.



    In our case, my son is actually a very talented player. But, has gone downhill with his self control (autism) and, lately, has demonstrated a loss of work ethic. I finally told him, "When and if you're ready to be a great player I'll be here to help." and I almost never play with him anymore. Can't make a kid want to play a sport. I really worked at my athletics growing up. I'd run hills whenever I could, lifted weights, actually enjoyed it. I'm realizing now that's very unusual. But, it's really hard to see my boy just squander the game. Perhaps he'll get tired of playing like Tiger did upon his return to the game (very bad joke there...please don't get wound up) and buckle down. But, at this point, I doubt it. So...long answer short...work ethic combined with puberty, social pressures, etc.



    A year ago when we were out on a round celebrating my wife's birthday, our boy got an ace with my whole family standing together on the tee. It was one of the most special moments of our lives. For her birthday this year we're not even having him out - just my wife and I. Breaks my heart something fierce.




    Seriously!! Are you not playing with him because he does not have work ethic to compete ! Cant he just play golf and not try and be a college level player or serious athlete?



    Enjoy golf with him, it does not have to be about competition all the time.



    BTW - this comes from a dad who pushes his son a lot... only because he wants to compete. My motto is simple, you need to work hard in order to play tournament golf. If you do not want to work hard.. we can play all the time at the golf club; just do not ask me to waste my weekend/money driving you around for tournaments.
  • BeerPerHoleBeerPerHole Advanced Members Posts: 1,049 ✭✭
    edited March 5
    kcap wrote:



    Puberty.



    In our case, my son is actually a very talented player. But, has gone downhill with his self control (autism) and, lately, has demonstrated a loss of work ethic. I finally told him, "When and if you're ready to be a great player I'll be here to help." and I almost never play with him anymore. Can't make a kid want to play a sport. I really worked at my athletics growing up. I'd run hills whenever I could, lifted weights, actually enjoyed it. I'm realizing now that's very unusual. But, it's really hard to see my boy just squander the game. Perhaps he'll get tired of playing like Tiger did upon his return to the game (very bad joke there...please don't get wound up) and buckle down. But, at this point, I doubt it. So...long answer short...work ethic combined with puberty, social pressures, etc.



    A year ago when we were out on a round celebrating my wife's birthday, our boy got an ace with my whole family standing together on the tee. It was one of the most special moments of our lives. For her birthday this year we're not even having him out - just my wife and I. Breaks my heart something fierce.




    Seriously!! Are you not playing with him because he does not have work ethic to compete ! Cant he just play golf and not try and be a college level player or serious athlete?



    Enjoy golf with him, it does not have to be about competition all the time.



    BTW - this comes from a dad who pushes his son a lot... only because he wants to compete. My motto is simple, you need to work hard in order to play tournament golf. If you do not want to work hard.. we can play all the time at the golf club; just do not ask me to waste my weekend/money driving you around for tournaments.
    No. Not because of his work ethic. His behavior on the course has become unmanageable. His brain is f*cked up. Sorry. I should have been more clear.
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  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Advanced Members Posts: 254
    edited March 5
    tiger1873 wrote:

    tatertot wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    I have two examples in my family. My daughter began playing golf at about age 7. She was able to get so far but hanging out with her friends and having other experiences besides golf became more important to her than golf. She took up playing the Mandolin and is on the middle school track team. She has also tried competitive swimming, basketball, soccer and softball. I think it's great. I want her to be happy and couldn't care less if she plays golf. If she is happy and healthy, I am a proud and happy father!



    My nephew began playing baseball at about age 6. It got to the point he was playing 300 games per year all over the country without anything resembling free time. He was an excellent catcher and started getting the attention of some ACC and SEC baseball programs by the beginning of high school. At which point, he burned out and hasn't played baseball since. My brother has been nothing short of supportive. My nephew is happy, healthy and enjoying what little time he has left being a kid.



    As parents, we should be careful not to live our childhood regrets through our children! Let them be who they are, not who we may want them to be!




    Wish I could like this more than once ... Parents, please let your kids be kids. They shouldn't be working on college scholarships at age 6. The they'll never be a kid again. They'll have years and years to earn money and do plenty of "adult" things with adult responsibilities. Give them opportunities, but let them decide if they want to take them.




    I really don't think anyone does golf for college scholarships. I do however think a lot people play golf for many reason and those that play golf have a lot doors opened for them and should take advantage of those opportunities. Those doors can mean a lot things too. Also as the kids get older a lot times it is the kids leading the parents into more competitive golf.



    Believe it not some kids crave the competition and will do anything to play more. I actually think that is the norm more as kids get older. This golf stuff is tough and expensive for parents. Kind of jealous of those california parents who can't be a spectator and drop the kids off for the day to play golf.




    What doors open by being good at golf? And how good are you talking? Just curious where your mind is when taking this journey with your daughters.



    Is college not a means to an end? That’s how I view college. Good high school, easier to get into a good college. The better college, the easier it is to get certain jobs or easier path to a good grad school. Ultimately, is it not to make a living?



    So golf, unlike basketball or football, can’t fully mask the academic requirements to get into a good college. But it can provide an amazing opportunity to be a student athlete. Then what? It’s not like going to a better golf college increases your chances to go pro - there’s Q school open for all.



    So if the drive of parents or kids to be the best golfer possible as a junior is not for college or pro, not sure what it’s for. To be the best golfer that junior can be because the junior truly loves golf? If that’s your only motivation then you don’t need to spend money playing national tournaments or chase rankings and can just stick to your local pga section - plenty of competitive amateur and open events to get the competition you need/are seeking.



    So let’s not kid ourselves - everyone (junior or parent) has aspirations of college golf or professional golf if they are training and competing to be an elite junior golfer. It’s not so you can make business relationships - you need to first be in a position where those relationships would come to any fruition.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Advanced Members Posts: 930 ✭✭

    tiger1873 wrote:

    tatertot wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    I have two examples in my family. My daughter began playing golf at about age 7. She was able to get so far but hanging out with her friends and having other experiences besides golf became more important to her than golf. She took up playing the Mandolin and is on the middle school track team. She has also tried competitive swimming, basketball, soccer and softball. I think it's great. I want her to be happy and couldn't care less if she plays golf. If she is happy and healthy, I am a proud and happy father!



    My nephew began playing baseball at about age 6. It got to the point he was playing 300 games per year all over the country without anything resembling free time. He was an excellent catcher and started getting the attention of some ACC and SEC baseball programs by the beginning of high school. At which point, he burned out and hasn't played baseball since. My brother has been nothing short of supportive. My nephew is happy, healthy and enjoying what little time he has left being a kid.



    As parents, we should be careful not to live our childhood regrets through our children! Let them be who they are, not who we may want them to be!




    Wish I could like this more than once ... Parents, please let your kids be kids. They shouldn't be working on college scholarships at age 6. The they'll never be a kid again. They'll have years and years to earn money and do plenty of "adult" things with adult responsibilities. Give them opportunities, but let them decide if they want to take them.




    I really don't think anyone does golf for college scholarships. I do however think a lot people play golf for many reason and those that play golf have a lot doors opened for them and should take advantage of those opportunities. Those doors can mean a lot things too. Also as the kids get older a lot times it is the kids leading the parents into more competitive golf.



    Believe it not some kids crave the competition and will do anything to play more. I actually think that is the norm more as kids get older. This golf stuff is tough and expensive for parents. Kind of jealous of those california parents who can't be a spectator and drop the kids off for the day to play golf.




    What doors open by being good at golf? And how good are you talking? Just curious where your mind is when taking this journey with your daughters.



    Is college not a means to an end? That’s how I view college. Good high school, easier to get into a good college. The better college, the easier it is to get certain jobs or easier path to a good grad school. Ultimately, is it not to make a living?



    So golf, unlike basketball or football, can’t fully mask the academic requirements to get into a good college. But it can provide an amazing opportunity to be a student athlete. Then what? It’s not like going to a better golf college increases your chances to go pro - there’s Q school open for all.



    So if the drive of parents or kids to be the best golfer possible as a junior is not for college or pro, not sure what it’s for. To be the best golfer that junior can be because the junior truly loves golf? If that’s your only motivation then you don’t need to spend money playing national tournaments or chase rankings and can just stick to your local pga section - plenty of competitive amateur and open events to get the competition you need/are seeking.



    So let’s not kid ourselves - everyone (junior or parent) has aspirations of college golf or professional golf if they are training and competing to be an elite junior golfer. It’s not so you can make business relationships - you need to first be in a position where those relationships would come to any fruition.




    Golf opens a lot doors. For instance knowing how to play golf well may get you invited to a 4 some with manager higher up during the yearly company tournament.



    When your talking about college you may actually not get an atheletic scholarship but the coach may actually help you get the academic one to play on the team.



    Just playing golf and hanging around where golf clubs are will help you make contacts in life.



    Then if your actually really good like say tiger woods you will make millions.



    I could go on but just actually playing a sport like golf has a lot good qualities and I haven’t even mentioned the health benefits yet.





    That’s why I said golf opens up doors. Generally speaking I rather my kids hang around golfers then play video games online or at the mall.
  • dpb5031dpb5031 Advanced Members Posts: 4,935 ✭✭
    edited March 5
    This thread has veered astray so I'm going to add my $.02 which is at least based on experience.



    My daughter is/was athletic and strong, and pretty good at every sport she played. I love golf, so as a little kid, so did she...and being athletic she had a knack for it.



    Now, if I were to have listened to the "let kids be kids" crowd, i can pretty much guarantee that she would NOT be playing D1 collegiate golf on a full ride.



    I actually wonder how many folks in the "let kids be kids" camp are even parents, and speculate further that most likely have kids with no or little talent.



    Being a parent of a talented athlete ain't easy. Some kids are self-motivated, some need an occasional kick in the azz, and some need more extensive parental involvement.



    In any case, it is extremely nuanced and case specific, so if you've never been through it as a kid or parent, please save the prophesying. Most of us want the ver best for our children and realize that many opportunities are fleeting...
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  • tatertottatertot Advanced Members Posts: 4,226 ✭✭
    dpb5031 wrote:


    This thread has veered astray so I'm going to add my $.02 which is at least based on experience.



    My daughter is/was athletic and strong, and pretty good at every sport she played. I love golf, so as a little kid, so did she...and being athletic she had a knack for it.



    Now, if I were to have listened to the "let kids be kids" crowd, i can pretty much guarantee that she would NOT be playing D1 collegiate golf on a full ride.



    I actually wonder how many folks in the "let kids be kids" camp are even parents, and speculate further that most likely have kids with no or little talent.



    Being a parent of a talented athlete ain't easy. Some kids are self-motivated, some need an occasional kick in the azz, and some need more extensive parental involvement.



    In any case, it is extremely nuanced and case specific, so if you've never been through it as a kid or parent, please save the prophesying. Most of us want the ver best for our children and realize that many opportunities are fleeting...




    My son plays high level select soccer, so I've been through it to this point.



    I realize all parents and kids are different, but I've also worked with a ton of kids through soccer, and I've seen a lot of them forced into playing out their parents dreams of athletic success. That's why I say give kids opportunities, but let them be kids.



    I played golf and basketball growing up, and would love to have my son play those things. And he tried them. Along with baseball and everything else he wanted. He chose what he wanted to play and now seriously he wanted to play it.



    Good for your daughter that she's playing D-1 golf on scholarship. Hopefully that was her dream and not yours. Sometimes "parental involvement" turns into living their lives for them. Not saying you did it, but I've seen it happen. And I've seen really talented kids burn out and quit sports they were good at ... Or forced to play sports they really didn't want to and quit others they were more interested in. All because their parents knew what was best for their future.



    And of course, we all think we're doing the best for our kids at the time. Do you think Todd Marinovich's dad (worst case scenario) thought he was destroying his son at the time?
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  • sheldonjhackersheldonjhacker Advanced Members Posts: 3,699 ✭✭
    Because golf is hard. image/black eye.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':black eye:' />
  • dpb5031dpb5031 Advanced Members Posts: 4,935 ✭✭
    edited March 5
    tatertot wrote:

    dpb5031 wrote:


    This thread has veered astray so I'm going to add my $.02 which is at least based on experience.



    My daughter is/was athletic and strong, and pretty good at every sport she played. I love golf, so as a little kid, so did she...and being athletic she had a knack for it.



    Now, if I were to have listened to the "let kids be kids" crowd, i can pretty much guarantee that she would NOT be playing D1 collegiate golf on a full ride.



    I actually wonder how many folks in the "let kids be kids" camp are even parents, and speculate further that most likely have kids with no or little talent.



    Being a parent of a talented athlete ain't easy. Some kids are self-motivated, some need an occasional kick in the azz, and some need more extensive parental involvement.



    In any case, it is extremely nuanced and case specific, so if you've never been through it as a kid or parent, please save the prophesying. Most of us want the ver best for our children and realize that many opportunities are fleeting...




    My son plays high level select soccer, so I've been through it to this point.



    I realize all parents and kids are different, but I've also worked with a ton of kids through soccer, and I've seen a lot of them forced into playing out their parents dreams of athletic success. That's why I say give kids opportunities, but let them be kids.



    I played golf and basketball growing up, and would love to have my son play those things. And he tried them. Along with baseball and everything else he wanted. He chose what he wanted to play and now seriously he wanted to play it.



    Good for your daughter that she's playing D-1 golf on scholarship. Hopefully that was her dream and not yours. Sometimes "parental involvement" turns into living their lives for them. Not saying you did it, but I've seen it happen. And I've seen really talented kids burn out and quit sports they were good at ... Or forced to play sports they really didn't want to and quit others they were more interested in. All because their parents knew what was best for their future.



    And of course, we all think we're doing the best for our kids at the time. Do you think Todd Marinovich's dad (worst case scenario) thought he was destroying his son at the time?




    TT, I totally respect your opinion.



    All I'm saying is that raising kids is a very nuanced and case-by-case endeavor that requires good parental instincts, intuition, and hopefully knowledge, wisdom, and experience.



    There will always be extreme cases in each direction



    Edit to add: ...and there ain't no guarantees
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  • wildcatdenwildcatden China Cat Sunflower Advanced Members Posts: 741 ✭✭
    dpb5031 wrote:
    This thread has veered astray so I'm going to add my $.02 which is at least based on experience.



    My daughter is/was athletic and strong, and pretty good at every sport she played. I love golf, so as a little kid, so did she...and being athletic she had a knack for it.



    Now, if I were to have listened to the "let kids be kids" crowd, i can pretty much guarantee that she would NOT be playing D1 collegiate golf on a full ride.



    I actually wonder how many folks in the "let kids be kids" camp are even parents, and speculate further that most likely have kids with no or little talent.



    Being a parent of a talented athlete ain't easy. Some kids are self-motivated, some need an occasional kick in the azz, and some need more extensive parental involvement.



    In any case, it is extremely nuanced and case specific, so if you've never been through it as a kid or parent, please save the prophesying. Most of us want the ver best for our children and realize that many opportunities are fleeting...




    At what age did you start to push your daughter more (in all sports and/or golf in particular)?
  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Advanced Members Posts: 3,503 ✭✭
    dpb5031 wrote:


    This thread has veered astray so I'm going to add my $.02 which is at least based on experience.



    My daughter is/was athletic and strong, and pretty good at every sport she played. I love golf, so as a little kid, so did she...and being athletic she had a knack for it.



    Now, if I were to have listened to the "let kids be kids" crowd, i can pretty much guarantee that she would NOT be playing D1 collegiate golf on a full ride.



    I actually wonder how many folks in the "let kids be kids" camp are even parents, and speculate further that most likely have kids with no or little talent.



    Being a parent of a talented athlete ain't easy. Some kids are self-motivated, some need an occasional kick in the azz, and some need more extensive parental involvement.



    In any case, it is extremely nuanced and case specific, so if you've never been through it as a kid or parent, please save the prophesying. Most of us want the ver best for our children and realize that many opportunities are fleeting...




    A couple of thoughts.



    First, I totally agree that every kid is different. Some kids are driven, some kids need a push. I couldn't possibly doubt your assessment that your daughter needed your push.



    To speculate that parents who don't feel like they need to push have talentless kids is one of the most tasteless things I've ever read on GolfWRX.



    Second: the OP didn't really do a great job of defining success in the first post. I don't really care if my daughter plays D1 Golf, gets a scholarship, plays on the LPGA tour. I hope she loves the game of golf and enjoys competing. To me, those outcomes are "success". If I felt like my her goal was to play D1 golf on a full ride, I might agree with the OP that the best path is through playing all the "right" tournaments. But you've got to understand that the things that you care about and think are "success" are not per se the same things that I care about and think are "success".
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Advanced Members Posts: 930 ✭✭
    raynorfan1 wrote:

    dpb5031 wrote:


    This thread has veered astray so I'm going to add my $.02 which is at least based on experience.



    My daughter is/was athletic and strong, and pretty good at every sport she played. I love golf, so as a little kid, so did she...and being athletic she had a knack for it.



    Now, if I were to have listened to the "let kids be kids" crowd, i can pretty much guarantee that she would NOT be playing D1 collegiate golf on a full ride.



    I actually wonder how many folks in the "let kids be kids" camp are even parents, and speculate further that most likely have kids with no or little talent.



    Being a parent of a talented athlete ain't easy. Some kids are self-motivated, some need an occasional kick in the azz, and some need more extensive parental involvement.



    In any case, it is extremely nuanced and case specific, so if you've never been through it as a kid or parent, please save the prophesying. Most of us want the ver best for our children and realize that many opportunities are fleeting...




    A couple of thoughts.



    First, I totally agree that every kid is different. Some kids are driven, some kids need a push. I couldn't possibly doubt your assessment that your daughter needed your push.



    To speculate that parents who don't feel like they need to push have talentless kids is one of the most tasteless things I've ever read on GolfWRX.



    Second: the OP didn't really do a great job of defining success in the first post. I don't really care if my daughter plays D1 Golf, gets a scholarship, plays on the LPGA tour. I hope she loves the game of golf and enjoys competing. To me, those outcomes are "success". If I felt like my her goal was to play D1 golf on a full ride, I might agree with the OP that the best path is through playing all the "right" tournaments. But you've got to understand that the things that you care about and think are "success" are not per se the same things that I care about and think are "success".




    The question had nothing to do with pushing kids. The original question is why do people never move there kids up to a higher level. I really don’t have a clue why someone would invest time and money and even home school a kid but seem content with there kid winning low level tournaments. A good number probably don’t have motivation to pursue higher level and just love winning angainst kids who just started playing.



    The reason it matters to me is if say 20% of talented kids never advance to the next level the rankings then that simply means the odds go up for the kids that do. It very tough to understand rankings and where a kid is going to stand in a class.





    I also happened to include some advice in the question too because a lot people think my kid won a local tournament the scholarships are going to fall out the sky for them. This is especially true for parents of girls. I also think liike dpb that if a lot the posters here don’t have kids or have kids that they showed any promise.
  • PetethreeputPetethreeput Advanced Members Posts: 1,407 ✭✭
    Well...

    At 23 when I thought about going overseas to play professional sports my parents said, it doesn’t sound like a path to financial security. So really why wait to get started?

    At 17, when colleges started knocking on our door for my child, I asked what they wanted to do. The answer was, “I just want be a normal kid. I don’t love it enough to be a good teammate.”



    I firmly believe in letting kids be kids. And most every other satisfied athlete would agree. It has nothing to do with the kids talent (or lack thereof) it has to do with the parent’s.
  • dpb5031dpb5031 Advanced Members Posts: 4,935 ✭✭
    raynorfan1 wrote:

    dpb5031 wrote:


    This thread has veered astray so I'm going to add my $.02 which is at least based on experience.



    My daughter is/was athletic and strong, and pretty good at every sport she played. I love golf, so as a little kid, so did she...and being athletic she had a knack for it.



    Now, if I were to have listened to the "let kids be kids" crowd, i can pretty much guarantee that she would NOT be playing D1 collegiate golf on a full ride.



    I actually wonder how many folks in the "let kids be kids" camp are even parents, and speculate further that most likely have kids with no or little talent.



    Being a parent of a talented athlete ain't easy. Some kids are self-motivated, some need an occasional kick in the azz, and some need more extensive parental involvement.



    In any case, it is extremely nuanced and case specific, so if you've never been through it as a kid or parent, please save the prophesying. Most of us want the ver best for our children and realize that many opportunities are fleeting...




    A couple of thoughts.



    First, I totally agree that every kid is different. Some kids are driven, some kids need a push. I couldn't possibly doubt your assessment that your daughter needed your push.



    To speculate that parents who don't feel like they need to push have talentless kids is one of the most tasteless things I've ever read on GolfWRX.



    Second: the OP didn't really do a great job of defining success in the first post. I don't really care if my daughter plays D1 Golf, gets a scholarship, plays on the LPGA tour. I hope she loves the game of golf and enjoys competing. To me, those outcomes are "success". If I felt like my her goal was to play D1 golf on a full ride, I might agree with the OP that the best path is through playing all the "right" tournaments. But you've got to understand that the things that you care about and think are "success" are not per se the same things that I care about and think are "success".




    I apologize if my post has offended anyone as that certainly was not my intention. Provocative perhaps, but tasteless? Really...lol image/huh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':huh:' /> ? I'm just firmly of the opinion that the "let kids be kids" statement is way overplayed here and elsewhere, has become practically cliche', and is often (but not always) a passive-aggressive shot at parents who are actively invested in helping, or trying to help their kids succeed.



    The vast majority of children are impulsive and short-sighted by nature...mostly due to immaturity, common distractions, and just flat-out being kids. That's OK, perfectly normal, and should be expected. Most kids require encouragement, enthusiasm, discipline, the occasional nudge, nurturing and parental involvement in one shape or another to succeed at whatever the endeavor...athletic or otherwise. There will always be exceptions, but we're not talking about exceptions here, we're talking about parenting everyday kids. In my case, my kid did not require a constant push, but on those occasions when she veered off course we were there to help right the ship and help her stay on track. That applies to academics, athletics, and her social life. I suppose we could have left it all up to her and just rolled the dice, but there's not a lot of wiggle room or time for mistakes after a certain point. Hopefully (and I'm fairly confident on this) if you were to speak with her now she'd echo my sentiments and express appreciation that we pushed her to a degree when we deemed it necessary. Again, it's a balancing act!



    I've never suggested that there's a perfect recipe' and/or that my way is ideal. I've also never expressed that what worked for me and my family is right for others. Every kid is different ant that's up to each parent/family. And BTW, there are plenty of kids in our world that should be so lucky as to have a parent or anyone in their life that actually gives a sh!t about anything they do.



    I fully understand that every individual and every family is going to have different goals and values. What I think is important may not be important to others, and likewise. In fact, that's substantive to my point...
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  • dpb5031dpb5031 Advanced Members Posts: 4,935 ✭✭


    Well...

    At 23 when I thought about going overseas to play professional sports my parents said, it doesn't sound like a path to financial security. So really why wait to get started?

    At 17, when colleges started knocking on our door for my child, I asked what they wanted to do. The answer was, "I just want be a normal kid. I don't love it enough to be a good teammate."



    I firmly believe in letting kids be kids. And most every other satisfied athlete would agree. It has nothing to do with the kids talent (or lack thereof) it has to do with the parent's.




    So, if your kid is 100% resolute and consistent in his/her expressed thoughts and opinions about whatever the issue that's an easy one and I'd agree with you as well as your kid.



    But what if your kid (like many, if not most) has a mindset that goes from one end of the spectrum to the opposite in a relatively short period of time, whether due to some external influence or whatever that plays on his or her natural impulsivity and immaturity? Two weeks ago he wanted to play college soccer and actually showed some promise in it through his travel team play etc, yet today he doesn't give a **** because he doesn't want to miss a local party. Oh, and BTW....next week he's going to be begging you to go to a $5k soccer camp in the summer? What's the answer now? Can you not see that it's not always so cut and dry?
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    Ping G 22 Hybrid (2 flat) - Ping Tour 80 S
    Ping i200 5-UW (2 flat) - Nippon Modus 105X
    Ping Glide 2.0 - SS 54 (bent to 55 & 2 flat)
    Taylormade Ho Toe 64 (Bent to 62 & 2 flat)
    Palmer AP30R putter (circa 1960s)
    Taylormade TP5X Ball
  • MadGolfer76MadGolfer76 Admiration is the state furthest from understanding. Advanced Members Posts: 19,794 ✭✭
    This school principal would say that it is because child development is not a straight line, but rather reads more like an earnings chart...up and down.



    Kids are not just "little adults." Their achievement is tied to their emotional, social, and physical development. Adults can push past barriers by having the maturity to stick to process and entertain perspective while doing so. That isn't how it works with kids.
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  • PetethreeputPetethreeput Advanced Members Posts: 1,407 ✭✭
    dpb5031 wrote:



    Well...

    At 23 when I thought about going overseas to play professional sports my parents said, it doesn't sound like a path to financial security. So really why wait to get started?

    At 17, when colleges started knocking on our door for my child, I asked what they wanted to do. The answer was, "I just want be a normal kid. I don't love it enough to be a good teammate."



    I firmly believe in letting kids be kids. And most every other satisfied athlete would agree. It has nothing to do with the kids talent (or lack thereof) it has to do with the parent's.




    So, if your kid is 100% resolute and consistent in his/her expressed thoughts and opinions about whatever the issue that's an easy one and I'd agree with you as well as your kid.



    But what if your kid (like many, if not most) has a mindset that goes from one end of the spectrum to the opposite in a relatively short period of time, whether due to some external influence or whatever that plays on his or her natural impulsivity and immaturity? Two weeks ago he wanted to play college soccer and actually showed some promise in it through his travel team play etc, yet today he doesn't give a **** because he doesn't want to miss a local party. Oh, and BTW....next week he's going to be begging you to go to a $5k soccer camp in the summer? What's the answer now? Can you not see that it's not always so cut and dry?




    It’s their life. I honestly couldn’t have cared less if he played a sport in college. My parents didn’t care if I did either.

    I probably would have paid the $5K if they thought it’d be fun. For me, it’s about what they want to do and support them. And really, if there was a concern, well there is no guarantee it wouldn’t come up again. After the commitment for money. At that point it’s not a game, it’s a job. On the other hand, if it’s still encouraged and accepted, who’s to say the kid doesn’t walk on if the spirit moves them.

    The issue isn’t about whether a child is “focused” the question is do they want to be focused. And every kid is different, some kids live to compete, some kids don’t. But it isn’t tied to aptitude, it’s attitude.

    And those kids who truly forge their own way are the ones who become great (with exceptions like Tiger). Parents who push run more talented kids out of sport than the vice versa.

    I truly believe that. And after 20 years of coaching I saw much more of that than success. Over 70% of all high school athletes quit by their senior year. Is it bc they all got cut? I doubt it.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Advanced Members Posts: 930 ✭✭




    It’s their life. I honestly couldn’t have cared less if he played a sport in college. My parents didn’t care if I did either.

    I probably would have paid the $5K if they thought it’d be fun. For me, it’s about what they want to do and support them. And really, if there was a concern, well there is no guarantee it wouldn’t come up again. After the commitment for money. At that point it’s not a game, it’s a job. On the other hand, if it’s still encouraged and accepted, who’s to say the kid doesn’t walk on if the spirit moves them.

    The issue isn’t about whether a child is “focused” the question is do they want to be focused. And every kid is different, some kids live to compete, some kids don’t. But it isn’t tied to aptitude, it’s attitude.

    And those kids who truly forge their own way are the ones who become great (with exceptions like Tiger). Parents who push run more talented kids out of sport than the vice versa.

    I truly believe that. And after 20 years of coaching I saw much more of that than success. Over 70% of all high school athletes quit by their senior year. Is it bc they all got cut? I doubt it.




    This makes no sense at all. If you want your kid to succeed you need to push them and give them encouragement. You can’t just let’s kid do what ever they want to do. That how you raise a gangbanger or future loser who just plays video games all day and does drugs.



    No kid who has done well has not had a parent behind pushing them and helping them make good descisions in life.
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Advanced Members Posts: 16,480 ✭✭
    An 8th grader not being ranked means nothing. Ranking really won’t matter until later part of sophomore year of high school. Even more so for girls than boys
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