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Tennis elbow vs Golf elbow

HackinatorHackinator Advanced Members Posts: 403 ✭✭
Recently experiencing issues with right elbow where its a bit painful.



I have a very dull achy constant pain around my elbow/forearm/wrist.



Based on what I have read what I am experiencing is Tennis elbow not Golfer's elbow.

If I understand it correctly, Tennis elbow is related to a tendon on the "outside" of elbow which is where its painful and sore.



What things can I do for a speedy recovery?

Comments

  • GolferwillGolferwill Members Posts: 10 ✭✭
    I have had same issue as a RH player. Do you hit off mats at all or take big divots? You really need to stay on top of icing the area
  • HackinatorHackinator Advanced Members Posts: 403 ✭✭
    Golferwill wrote:


    I have had same issue as a RH player. Do you hit off mats at all or take big divots? You really need to stay on top of icing the area




    Yep, I hit off mats all the time.
  • sheldonjhackersheldonjhacker Advanced Members Posts: 3,699 ✭✭
    My doctor at the Hospital for Special Surgery in NYC after I had major elbow surgery: "If you keep hitting off mats, you will continue to destroy your elbows, wrists, shoulders, and hands. DO NOT hit off of mats."
  • MooMoo Advanced Members Posts: 271 ✭✭
    First, I have no cure, no solution, and I won't bore you with my personal experiences as everyone's injury will be different.



    If possible, see a well respected doctor. And hitting off of mats absolutely made my right elbow injury worse (I have tennis elbow, and not golf elbow, here is a link to the difference https://www.beaumont.org/health-wellness/blogs/differences-between-tennis-elbow-and-golfers-elbow-prevention-and-when-to-see-a-doctor).



    I do a bunch of stretches. Ice seems useless for me, but it might greatly help you.



    Good luck.
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  • carreracarrera Advanced Members Posts: 2,523 ✭✭
    edited March 9
    OP, check out this thread:



    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1594366-tennis-elbow/



    TL;DR: switch to graphite shafts, get a Theraband (start with red or green) and do the exercises religiously for 6 weeks with proper form, reduce your mat practice.



    Good luck - I have been pain free for years now even hitting balls at local range (w mats).
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  • HackinatorHackinator Advanced Members Posts: 403 ✭✭


    My doctor at the Hospital for Special Surgery in NYC after I had major elbow surgery: "If you keep hitting off mats, you will continue to destroy your elbows, wrists, shoulders, and hands. DO NOT hit off of mats."




    Yep, I have been hitting indoors on mats for many years .

    This is probably the worst flare up I have ever experienced.



    Yes, I agree, I need to cut down the repetition.

    I probably swing around 200 swings nearly every day off a mat in my house.. yes I am bit of a maniac.



    I think I need to change my habits.
  • sui generissui generis Advanced Members Posts: 3,726 ✭✭
    Hackinator wrote:



    My doctor at the Hospital for Special Surgery in NYC after I had major elbow surgery: "If you keep hitting off mats, you will continue to destroy your elbows, wrists, shoulders, and hands. DO NOT hit off of mats."




    Yep, I have been hitting indoors on mats for many years .

    This is probably the worst flare up I have ever experienced.



    Yes, I agree, I need to cut down the repetition.

    I probably swing around 200 swings nearly every day off a mat in my house.. yes I am bit of a maniac.



    I think I need to change my habits.




    Get this: http://www.theraband.com/products/rehab-therapy/hand-arm-therapy/theraband-flexbar-resistance-bar.html
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  • aliikanealiikane Advanced Members Posts: 1,595 ✭✭
    edited March 9
    I have had tendonitis in my left elbow for around 14 years and it was pretty bad at times. I had to quit playing golf for almost a year. For me, it doesn't have to do with mats. There was a time where I was rarely hitting off mats and just playing on the course and still the same pain. I get pain taking an easy swing in my house with a training aid. It is from overuse and technique.



    However, it is a big task to find a technique or remedy that will alleviate the pain. I have had a cortisone shot which works but is only temporary. Bands haven't done much for me. For the last few months, the pain has been really bad, so I finally went to the Physical Therapist. They have me on some exercises so I will see if they work.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • benhays98benhays98 Members Posts: 41 ✭✭
    I've always been under the impression that both tennis and golf elbow are repetitive stress injuries, not due to impact.
  • OTTOTT Advanced Members Posts: 186
    Spent the past 6-8 months with tennis elbow even though it's only golf I play... Strangely enough I got mine from doing too many pressups... And hitting a lot of balls . I had it in both elbows moreso in my right elbow.. I was doing 200 pressups a day .. me thinking it was a good thing, I was actually over training even though I was using proper form I ignored it... I was able to play away with it but it was sore. More discomfort than anything..



    Once I stopped the pressups it subsided a lot... But I do feel it creeping back if I have a long range session.. there's plenty of exercises on the net, massage on the area is apparently good. But you may need to rest it or cut down a bit on the range work.. also if your work involves manual labour with heavy lifting this can also stop it from repairing itself with rest.. that was the case with me. Hope this helps. It's not a nice thing to have.
  • J2puttsJ2putts Advanced Members Posts: 604 ✭✭
    Tennis elbow is on the outside of elbow ...golfers elbow the inside . I've had issues with tennis elbow .. it gets better then it can flare up with one subtle move.
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  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Sponsors Posts: 18,146 ✭✭
    There’s a great joke about this



    https://ah69.wordpress.com/2012/08/07/if-you-dont-stop-jerking-off-your-elbow-will-never-get-better/



    Kidding aside, I’ve had both and deep tissue (the kind that really hurts) did wonders for me. If you don’t cry, it’s not mean enough.
  • Shrinkwr4pShrinkwr4p Advanced Members Posts: 272 ✭✭
    I retired 10 years ago.

    Hadn't played golf for 3 years , driven away by a duck hook and putting 'yips'.

    Determined to get my game in shape I spent a winter working hard on my game, mainly off range mats. Within 4 months I had bilateral tennis elbow.

    A Theraband helped a bit and nothing else did.

    Though I'm sure that golf caused it,strangely, hitting golf balls was never painful and I kept on playing. Over time it got better. Symptom free for years now.I would never again practice intensively off mats though
  • RohlioRohlio Advanced Members Posts: 2,290 ✭✭
    Hackinator wrote:

    Golferwill wrote:


    I have had same issue as a RH player. Do you hit off mats at all or take big divots? You really need to stay on top of icing the area




    Yep, I hit off mats all the time.




    This is the problem... most likely



    Buy a fiberbuilt mat and it will go away.



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  • ItsjustagameItsjustagame Advanced Members Posts: 1,258 ✭✭
    And then there is snow shoveling elbow.
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  • nuttergolfnuttergolf Members Posts: 25 ✭✭
    Plus 1 for theraband.

    It helped me out a great deal . That and i bought a grip strengthener. Use both while watching tv. My elbow pain went away.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 16,734 ClubWRX
    edited March 9
    Hackinator wrote:


    Recently experiencing issues with right elbow where its a bit painful.



    I have a very dull achy constant pain around my elbow/forearm/wrist.



    Based on what I have read what I am experiencing is Tennis elbow not Golfer's elbow.

    If I understand it correctly, Tennis elbow is related to a tendon on the "outside" of elbow which is where its painful and sore.



    What things can I do for a speedy recovery?




    Get it diagnosed in person by a doctor!



    I thought I'd just get over it, then thought I'd self diagnose, then thought I had ideas on treatment, then I saw a chiropractor - after it finally was ruining my golf season last summer after five months of off and on **** I finally went to an orthopedic doctor. 5 months way too late, lol.



    So I know whereof I speak.
  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Advanced Members Posts: 11,370 ✭✭
    Golfers elbow is way worse than tennis elbow. I've struggled w both for years and now transitioning into graphite iron shafts



    Twist bars ok



    Deep agonizing massage and rest and stretching and ice
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  • Matt JMatt J Advanced Members Posts: 8,566 ✭✭
    Same same for me having had both. Mostly inflammation in the connective tissue.



    NO MATS. Huge difference. Graphite helps a ton, too.
  • LeftDaddyLeftDaddy Advanced Members Posts: 592 ✭✭
    I have a nasty case of tennis elbow and have had it for over 6 months now. I went to a doc and he said some PT and some pain meds he gave me should do the trick. Spent **** near $1k in PT (another long and unfortunate story that describes the state of our health care system but I digress), and it only helped marginally.



    I just bought a theraband 2 weeks ago and have done the exercises religiously since I got it. No progress yet but I’m hoping for progress soon. I also just today started the Drive 400 program described in another thread, and that seems to have the potential to be helpful.



    Good luck to you. My case seems to be worse than what others have described, because I’m months in and only slightly better. I should probably quit golf for a while but I really don’t want to. I can generally play with the elbow pain, although if I get in deep rough I don’t even want to hit the ball. I have had two or three range sessions where the pain got so bad that it almost brought me to my knees. I was legitimately afraid to swing at the ball and so both times I just quit.



    It is no fun, and I’ve tried multiple things with very little effect so far...
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  • BlackettBlackett Advanced Members Posts: 34
    Have to wait for it to calm down before you can strength the forearms. Doctor told me that the muscles on the inside of the forearm are stronger than the outside. He said anywhere between 2 to 8 month to recover. It takes a long time be patient.
  • mchung.nyc212mchung.nyc212 Members Posts: 31 ✭✭
    if you live in an area (like NYC) where most ranges are only mats, what do you do? just hit more driver, FW wood and long irons off the mats (driver obviously being teed up)?
  • carreracarrera Advanced Members Posts: 2,523 ✭✭
    LeftDaddy wrote:


    I just bought a theraband 2 weeks ago and have done the exercises religiously since I got it. No progress yet but I'm hoping for progress soon.




    Be patient and do the exercises (3x15 reps per day) with good form. You will not feel better until the 4-week mark, at which point you will feel 80+% better. Improvement will come suddenly at that point. Then at the 6-week mark you will feel near 100%. I had a horrible case of tennis elbow years ago...I could barely do anything with my left arm. A month and a half of Theraband exercises (green) did the trick for me. I switched to graphite shafts as a precaution, and now I have zero pain and could hit 1000 balls off the worst mats you could find without feeling anything in my elbow.



    Be patient with the Theraband, do the 3x15 reps per day, and do them with good form and you will be in great shape in 6 weeks.
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  • Matt JMatt J Advanced Members Posts: 8,566 ✭✭
    edited March 10


    if you live in an area (like NYC) where most ranges are only mats, what do you do? just hit more driver, FW wood and long irons off the mats (driver obviously being teed up)?




    All the mats aren't created equally, so I'd look for the thick mats that simulate a more normal lie. Then I only work on driver, fairways, and hybrids off the thin mats. Never wedges. I mostly do my practice on the course if the mats are out. Play more, practice less. Maybe even buy your own better mat and take it to the range. A lot of the problem is just the number of high vibration traumatic repetitions, so higher quality less quantity.
  • sui generissui generis Advanced Members Posts: 3,726 ✭✭
    I have two Therabands, one at my desk and one in the car. It becomes easy to do enough Tyler Twists or Reverse Tyler Twists every day. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
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  • RohlioRohlio Advanced Members Posts: 2,290 ✭✭


    if you live in an area (like NYC) where most ranges are only mats, what do you do? just hit more driver, FW wood and long irons off the mats (driver obviously being teed up)?




    Buy a launchpad from Fiberbilt and put it off the side of the mat to hit off of would be my recommendation.
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  • CDLgolfCDLgolf Advanced Members Posts: 813 ✭✭
    I had tennis elbow in both elbows. When I lived up north the only thing that would help was the winter layoff. Not swinging a club for 6 months and my pain would go away.

    Now I live down south and can play most weeks of the year. The 2 things that helped me most were going to all graphite shafts and not hitting off mats. I can play year round with no pain.
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  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 24,000 ClubWRX
    If your ortho is telling you there is a difference, he/she has quite the racquet going.
  • RohlioRohlio Advanced Members Posts: 2,290 ✭✭
    DavePelz4 wrote:


    If your ortho is telling you there is a difference, he/she has quite the racquet going.




    There is a difference... Medial epicondylitis is colloquially called golfers elbow and Lateral epicondylitis is colloquially tennis elbow. I have seen both in various athletes over the years. The mechanism of injury is similar and the pathology is similar, but two totally different locations.
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  • avguyavguy Replacement Player Advanced Members Posts: 1,045 ✭✭
    edited March 11
    The threads on the elbow conundrum we golfers get always has me curious....I've gone thru severe bouts of the golfer's elbow, and less severe of the tennis elbow.



    Everybody has a tale on it here, but many forget to mention which arm for your swing. Me, only the lead, left arm. The big issue that gave me was also outside of golf - horrible reminder pain in daily tasks as a lefty who golfs righty.



    I have never encountered it in my trail arm, but would bettter be able to cope with that, in my less dominant arm.



    I found cure in many of the mentions here. Never have I played mats, so that was not my instigator. Had steel only in irons, tried Recoils Graphite to use mainly for range time - good call.



    PT will work, but the take home self work using Theraband and a Tyler Twist is dope!



    The best arm/elbow brace out there is also the least heat trapping - the BandIt.



    My Final choice I feel was the best as I made a swing change from a tighter, restricted backswing where the elbow felt more strain at the top to a more open, bigger turn version that had less fulcrum tension on that elbow at the top - combined with a stronger grip.



    Swing change is the toughest component to integrate but I feel that one did the most for me - hope one or all of those items help out your TE.
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  • Conner GolfConner Golf ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 75 ClubWRX
    Playing right handed pain got so bad I switched to left hand golf, got it in the other elbow. Elbow bands and light weights(when not hurting). But the

    best relief I found was when practicing on mats if my release is correct, effortless and free it does not cause the pain as it use to with my old

    forced and/or steered release.
  • i*windowsi*windows Advanced Members Posts: 2,108 ✭✭
    plenty of threads about Golfers Elbow which is caused by two things, impact and grip. Having suffered badly a couple of years ago there a couple of things that will help once it starts to get bad.



    Rest is best - don't hit a ball for 2 weeks.

    Do not hit of matts.

    Use thicker grips.

    Use graphite shafts,

    If your job involves sitting at a desk, change your mouse to an Ergonomic mouse.

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  • AtraynAtrayn ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 2,037 ClubWRX
    carrera wrote:

    LeftDaddy wrote:


    I just bought a theraband 2 weeks ago and have done the exercises religiously since I got it. No progress yet but I'm hoping for progress soon.




    Be patient and do the exercises (3x15 reps per day) with good form. You will not feel better until the 4-week mark, at which point you will feel 80+% better. Improvement will come suddenly at that point. Then at the 6-week mark you will feel near 100%. I had a horrible case of tennis elbow years ago...I could barely do anything with my left arm. A month and a half of Theraband exercises (green) did the trick for me. I switched to graphite shafts as a precaution, and now I have zero pain and could hit 1000 balls off the worst mats you could find without feeling anything in my elbow.



    Be patient with the Theraband, do the 3x15 reps per day, and do them with good form and you will be in great shape in 6 weeks.




    This is the gospel. I had it pretty bad after hitting on mats this winter. In December I bought the green Theraband. It works. Enough said...I am also in the process of changing to graphite shafts.
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  • LeftDaddyLeftDaddy Advanced Members Posts: 592 ✭✭
    I don’t want to jinx anything, but I’ve been doing green theraband religiously for about 2 weeks and just started Drive 400 and am 3 days in on that. I played 18 holes yesterday and ballstriking was still not very good overall, but I realized at dinner that my elbow wasn’t hurting.



    And I woke up this morning and it still doesn’t hurt...please oh please oh please tell me this God forsaken tennis elbow (right arm, lead arm) has passed me by!!!! (And no, I’m not quitting theraband...I’ll do it for 10 more weeks if I have to).
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  • HackinatorHackinator Advanced Members Posts: 403 ✭✭
    My elbow STILL HURTS.. been icing it a lot and doing suggested stretches that I found on Youtube.



    Just using a mouse on my computer hurts.



    I am in a Spring League that starts Wednesday and looks like I will have to find a sub the 1st week.



    That really stinks!
  • mchung.nyc212mchung.nyc212 Members Posts: 31 ✭✭
    Rohlio wrote:



    if you live in an area (like NYC) where most ranges are only mats, what do you do? just hit more driver, FW wood and long irons off the mats (driver obviously being teed up)?




    Buy a launchpad from Fiberbilt and put it off the side of the mat to hit off of would be my recommendation.




    https://www.amazon.com/Fiberbuilt-Flight-Deck-Golf-Hitting/dp/B06Y5NX641



    is this the right one? see link above.
  • Matt JMatt J Advanced Members Posts: 8,566 ✭✭
    Hackinator wrote:


    My elbow STILL HURTS.. been icing it a lot and doing suggested stretches that I found on Youtube.



    Just using a mouse on my computer hurts.



    I am in a Spring League that starts Wednesday and looks like I will have to find a sub the 1st week.



    That really stinks!




    If you're in pain at your desk at work I would consider cortisone injections. There are long-term risks that you should read up about, but there is a great chance you would get immediate relief. I 100% do not recommend cortisone shots if you are going to resume exactly what you are doing, but if you set some new patterns for yourself, like no hitting off of mats, switching to graphite shafts or putting sensicore inserts into your current clubs (a great inexpensive option), and STOPPING practice and/or play at the smallest sign of inflammation and pain, then it can be a viable option.



    Sorry to hear about the league starting. Always a bummer to have to bench yourself.
  • RohlioRohlio Advanced Members Posts: 2,290 ✭✭

    Rohlio wrote:



    if you live in an area (like NYC) where most ranges are only mats, what do you do? just hit more driver, FW wood and long irons off the mats (driver obviously being teed up)?




    Buy a launchpad from Fiberbilt and put it off the side of the mat to hit off of would be my recommendation.




    https://www.amazon.c...g/dp/B06Y5NX641



    is this the right one? see link above.




    Yes..



    THe bristles all stick up like a broom, so as opposed to the woven fibers mist mats are made of there is very little deceleration to the clubhead which means less eccentric load on your forearm wrist, elbow and shoulder.
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    Utility: 20* King Forged Utility One Length C Taper Lite S
    Irons: King Forged One Length 4-PW C Taper Lite S
    Wedges: Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin 50, 54, 58
    Putter: Custom Directed Force Reno 2.0 48" 80* Lie Side Saddle
  • Matt JMatt J Advanced Members Posts: 8,566 ✭✭
    Rohlio wrote:


    Rohlio wrote:



    if you live in an area (like NYC) where most ranges are only mats, what do you do? just hit more driver, FW wood and long irons off the mats (driver obviously being teed up)?




    Buy a launchpad from Fiberbilt and put it off the side of the mat to hit off of would be my recommendation.




    https://www.amazon.c...g/dp/B06Y5NX641



    is this the right one? see link above.




    Yes..



    THe bristles all stick up like a broom, so as opposed to the woven fibers mist mats are made of there is very little deceleration to the clubhead which means less eccentric load on your forearm wrist, elbow and shoulder.




    Nice find.



    We have grass tee from our "members area" but the warm up tees for much closer to the first tee... going to start bring this with me and throwing it back in the car before I tee off... much better than not warming up which is what I'm prone to do at the moment.
  • CrazyCoolieCrazyCoolie Members Posts: 33 ✭✭

    Hackinator wrote:



    My doctor at the Hospital for Special Surgery in NYC after I had major elbow surgery: "If you keep hitting off mats, you will continue to destroy your elbows, wrists, shoulders, and hands. DO NOT hit off of mats."




    Yep, I have been hitting indoors on mats for many years .

    This is probably the worst flare up I have ever experienced.



    Yes, I agree, I need to cut down the repetition.

    I probably swing around 200 swings nearly every day off a mat in my house.. yes I am bit of a maniac.



    I think I need to change my habits.




    Get this: http://www.theraband.com/products/rehab-therapy/hand-arm-therapy/theraband-flexbar-resistance-bar.html




    Theta band is the best thing for this. It seems totally stupid but it fixed my golfers elbow
  • tocinotocino Advanced Members Posts: 2,240 ✭✭
    I had some pain develop with my left elbow a few years back. At the time I was going to the range twice and averaging 27 holes a week. Lucky for me, i was expecting my 3rd kid and when she came out that was a perfect excuse to get some rest in. I think i played no more than once a month the following year with no more elbow pain. In light of this i knew the next set of irons i would buy would have graphite shafts. I seeit as a preventive measure rather than something i needed right away due to medical issues. I
  • Matt JMatt J Advanced Members Posts: 8,566 ✭✭
    Rohlio wrote:


    Rohlio wrote:



    if you live in an area (like NYC) where most ranges are only mats, what do you do? just hit more driver, FW wood and long irons off the mats (driver obviously being teed up)?




    Buy a launchpad from Fiberbilt and put it off the side of the mat to hit off of would be my recommendation.




    https://www.amazon.c...g/dp/B06Y5NX641



    is this the right one? see link above.




    Yes..



    THe bristles all stick up like a broom, so as opposed to the woven fibers mist mats are made of there is very little deceleration to the clubhead which means less eccentric load on your forearm wrist, elbow and shoulder.




    This mat arrived late Wednesday evening and I took it out to the range yesterday. I found that if I put it on the concrete and then stood on the range's mat it was virtually level. I did experiment with trying to pull the handle and hit a few fat, and it does seem like you still get the "mat effect" of it going nearly full distance, but I don't know if there's really a way to build a supportive mat that acts like real turf in that sense.



    I did feel that it is easier on my hands and wrists.



    I'm actually going to experiment with going back to steel shafts in my irons with sensicore inserts as I'm finding I'm managing using less practice and less playing to keep the inflammation down.
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