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17th Hole Bay Hill

Janice_rossiJanice_rossi NYAdvanced Members Posts: 87 ✭✭
What's the point of a 71st hole of a golf tournament being par 3 which statistically 90% of the field cannot birdie?



Bad for golf, no reason to watch the 72nd hole. Just my $.02.
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Comments

  • ItIsJackItIsJack Advanced Members Posts: 78
    I agree. Tees should have been moved up for that pin
  • McCann1McCann1 Tour Player Advanced Members Posts: 1,705 ✭✭
    These are the best golfers in the world trying to win at Arnie’s place. It’s supposed to be tough. It’s not always about making birdies it’s about managing yourself better than the guy you’re playing with. And clearly Molinari managed himself better than anybody else today
    Enjoy the chase.
  • agolf1agolf1 Advanced Members Posts: 511 ✭✭
    Sorry, but what's the point of needing to have a 71st hole that yields birdies left and right?



    To me, having to make two good pars to close out a 1 shot lead going to the 71st tee is just as interesting as watching someone birdie what's essentially a par 4.5 to win.



    I get that it made it difficult for someone to chase down Molinari. But they could have made more birdies earlier in the round too.
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  • sdandreasdandrea Steve Advanced Members Posts: 2,315 ✭✭
    The way the scoring went today, 17 was the "last" hole when chasing Molinari. If you don't birdie, it's over. Take Moliari out of the picture and the finish may have been more interesting, especially with 17 yielding some bogies.
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  • Janice_rossiJanice_rossi NYAdvanced Members Posts: 87 ✭✭
    I'm not taking anything away from the field, the late Mr. Palmer or family. I'm just saying as a "Viewer" I would like to see a risk vs. reward hole. That hole clearly offered no reward
  • tideridertiderider Advanced Members Posts: 1,310 ✭✭


    What's the point of a 71st hole of a golf tournament being par 3 which statistically 90% of the field cannot birdie?



    Bad for golf, no reason to watch the 72nd hole. Just my $.02.




    what's wrong with a tough hole where par is a very good score?
  • Janice_rossiJanice_rossi NYAdvanced Members Posts: 87 ✭✭
    tiderider wrote:



    What's the point of a 71st hole of a golf tournament being par 3 which statistically 90% of the field cannot birdie?



    Bad for golf, no reason to watch the 72nd hole. Just my $.02.




    what's wrong with a tough hole where par is a very good score?




    Nothing but as a "Viewer" once Fitzpatrick didn't eagle the 16th there was no reason to watch the next 2 holes. Bay Hill is one of my favorite tournaments to watch bc it always seems to have great endings. Not this year. And Cheers to Molinari for an fantastic round of golf!
  • dpattidpatti Advanced Members Posts: 224
    I agree you don’t need a hole that “yields birdies left and right” but 220 w no chance of getting it close isn’t much fun to watch.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 16,729 ClubWRX
    LOL, what a bunch of nonsense.
  • elwhippyelwhippy Advanced Members Posts: 3,048
    It has always been a bad hole. It would play much better at 180 - 190.
  • Darth PutterDarth Putter Advanced Members Posts: 4,181 ✭✭
    220 yard par 3 17th you say?



    71st hole of a tournament you say?



    http://youtu.be/QpsAPI6wf1k



    http://youtu.be/DO6qIg7aInw
    swing is irrelevant, score is everything

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  • ShilgyShilgy Advanced Members Posts: 11,097 ✭✭

    tiderider wrote:



    What's the point of a 71st hole of a golf tournament being par 3 which statistically 90% of the field cannot birdie?



    Bad for golf, no reason to watch the 72nd hole. Just my $.02.




    what's wrong with a tough hole where par is a very good score?




    Nothing but as a "Viewer" once Fitzpatrick didn't eagle the 16th there was no reason to watch the next 2 holes. Bay Hill is one of my favorite tournaments to watch bc it always seems to have great endings. Not this year. And Cheers to Molinari for an fantastic round of golf!
    Molinari shot 4 under on the back and Fitzpatrick even. Can't blame one hole for that.
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  • cxxcxx Advanced Members Posts: 3,027 ✭✭
    That's funny, I saw many try and fail on 17 when they needed it most. That was dramatic.
  • toctoc Advanced Members Posts: 2,640 ✭✭
    If molinari was in the last group with a one shot lead coming into 17th we’d all be praising what a great hole it is not allowing a leader to coast to a win.
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  • Joker91Joker91 Advanced Members Posts: 370 ✭✭
    People just gonna complain about anything
  • HitEmTrueHitEmTrue @HitEmTrue1 Advanced Members Posts: 6,059 ✭✭

    tiderider wrote:



    What's the point of a 71st hole of a golf tournament being par 3 which statistically 90% of the field cannot birdie?



    Bad for golf, no reason to watch the 72nd hole. Just my $.02.




    what's wrong with a tough hole where par is a very good score?




    Nothing but as a "Viewer" once Fitzpatrick didn't eagle the 16th there was no reason to watch the next 2 holes. Bay Hill is one of my favorite tournaments to watch bc it always seems to have great endings. Not this year. And Cheers to Molinari for an fantastic round of golf!




    Your view on this was created by Molinari going low early and others having to chase. Otherwise, it’s the variations in score on a hole that cause lead changes...doesn’t matter if it’s birdies vs pars, or pars vs bogies.

  • tideridertiderider Advanced Members Posts: 1,310 ✭✭

    tiderider wrote:



    What's the point of a 71st hole of a golf tournament being par 3 which statistically 90% of the field cannot birdie?



    Bad for golf, no reason to watch the 72nd hole. Just my $.02.




    what's wrong with a tough hole where par is a very good score?




    Nothing but as a "Viewer" once Fitzpatrick didn't eagle the 16th there was no reason to watch the next 2 holes. Bay Hill is one of my favorite tournaments to watch bc it always seems to have great endings. Not this year. And Cheers to Molinari for an fantastic round of golf!




    giphy.gif
  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 23,995 ClubWRX
    There are professional golfers and then there are WRX'ers. While few PGA tour players could birdie that hole, most on GolfWRX would have taken a 7 iron, hit a 8.327 yard cut and ended up within 3 feet of the hole. The average score for the PGA players would be around 3.5 but the average score of the WRX'ers would be around 1.75 as many would ace the tee shot and the remainder would make birdie.



    It's really not that hard of a hole.



    Signed...



    A delusional WRX'er.
  • tideridertiderider Advanced Members Posts: 1,310 ✭✭
    DavePelz4 wrote:


    There are professional golfers and then there are WRX'ers. While few PGA tour players could birdie that hole, most on GolfWRX would have taken a 7 iron, hit a 8.327 yard cut and ended up within 3 feet of the hole. The average score for the PGA players would be around 3.5 but the average score of the WRX'ers would be around 1.75 as many would ace the tee shot and the remainder would make birdie.



    It's really not that hard of a hole.



    Signed...



    A delusional WRX'er.




    i'll be honest here ... i'd probably miss the putt ...
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 16,729 ClubWRX


    220 yard par 3 17th you say?



    71st hole of a tournament you say?



    [media=]



    [media=]




    Awesome, and embarrassed I didn't think of that for all the reasons it figured in Jack's history there!
  • Poor PosturePoor Posture Advanced Members Posts: 354 ✭✭
    Once Molinari was in the clubhouse, they should have moved the pin on 17 to make sure it was more interesting....
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]snapback.pngBigmean, on 08 September 2015 - 07:21 PM, said: "[/font][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I know it is really frowned upon here, but hitting the club somewhere near the middle is generally the greatest tech advancement you can put in your bag."[/font]

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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Advanced Members Posts: 24,214 ✭✭
    Good grief. Enough with this “ let’s make it easier “ ****.
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  • JohnnyCashForeverJohnnyCashForever Advanced Members Posts: 214 ✭✭


    220 yard par 3 17th you say?



    71st hole of a tournament you say?



    [media=]



    [media=]




    QED
  • the bishopthe bishop Advanced Members Posts: 3,168 ✭✭
    What course makes the 17th hole a par 3 anyway? Oh wait....most of them. Nothing says they've got to be easy.
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  • AppAlumAppAlum Advanced Members Posts: 732 ✭✭
    toc wrote:


    If molinari was in the last group with a one shot lead coming into 17th we’d all be praising what a great hole it is not allowing a leader to coast to a win.




    This.
  • MattyO1984MattyO1984 Advanced Members Posts: 4,679 ✭✭
    Agreed!! Let's dig up 17 and start all over again!!



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  • ctsgolfctsgolf Members Posts: 37
    The perpetually outraged.
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  • rangersgoalierangersgoalie Advanced Members Posts: 1,729
    Was too late bringing the example of the “easy” 17th at Pebble image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
  • third-times-a-charmthird-times-a-charm Advanced Members Posts: 1,340 ✭✭
    edited March 11
    Awww poor babies...viewers who want birdies and pros making millions need a nice easy 72nd hole?



    The 17th at TPC Sawgrass is even worse - a joke gimmick of a hole made for drinking and hollering spectators.



    The course was hard this weekend, end of story. They tucked the pins in places that made me cringe but it was AWESOME seeing professionals try to attack them.



    The best player always wins! It actually was almost really close. Cabrera could have birdied 2 of the 3 last holes and tied for the lead for a playoff but he didnt. Heck, Rory had a chance too as he was -8 through 13 but he crapped the bed as well.
    Long Live Nike
  • ChristosteroneChristosterone Reverse C ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 1,199 ClubWRX
    Some people can birdie it







    -Chris
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  • third-times-a-charmthird-times-a-charm Advanced Members Posts: 1,340 ✭✭


    Some people can birdie it



    [media=]



    -Chris




    Thats not Bay Hill
    Long Live Nike
  • ShilgyShilgy Advanced Members Posts: 11,097 ✭✭


    220 yard par 3 17th you say?



    71st hole of a tournament you say?



    [media=]



    [media=]
    i missed the golf yesterday but based on the op it sounds like the pin was inaccessible to the length of the shot. Not the case on 17 at Pebble in your videos.
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  • ChristosteroneChristosterone Reverse C ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 1,199 ClubWRX



    Some people can birdie it



    [media=]



    -Chris




    Thats not Bay Hill




    Haha oops

    Let me try again







    -Chris
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  • third-times-a-charmthird-times-a-charm Advanced Members Posts: 1,340 ✭✭




    Some people can birdie it



    [media=]



    -Chris




    Thats not Bay Hill




    Haha oops

    Let me try again



    [media=]



    -Chris




    That is also not Bay Hill lol
    Long Live Nike
  • pheenomz4774pheenomz4774 Advanced Members Posts: 866 ✭✭
    toc wrote:


    If molinari was in the last group with a one shot lead coming into 17th we'd all be praising what a great hole it is not allowing a leader to coast to a win.




    Exactly this. 16 is the great birdie/eagle opportunity followed by two potential blowup holes. This creates a great amount of leaderboard volatility amongst the final groups, just so happens that Molinari wrapped up this puppy before any of the groups got there.
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  • ChristosteroneChristosterone Reverse C ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 1,199 ClubWRX






    Thats not Bay Hill




    Haha oops

    Let me try again



    [media=]



    -Chris




    That is also not Bay Hill lol




    Ok, one more try







    -Chris
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  • third-times-a-charmthird-times-a-charm Advanced Members Posts: 1,340 ✭✭





    Thats not Bay Hill




    Haha oops

    Let me try again



    [media=]



    -Chris




    That is also not Bay Hill lol




    Ok, one more try



    [media=]



    -Chris




    Thats the US Open...so....also not Bay Hill
    Long Live Nike
  • the bishopthe bishop Advanced Members Posts: 3,168 ✭✭


    That is also not Bay Hill lol


    He was closer the first time! (geographically speaking)
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  • ChristosteroneChristosterone Reverse C ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 1,199 ClubWRX





    Thats not Bay Hill




    That is also not Bay Hill lol




    Ok, one more try



    [media=]



    -Chris




    Thats the US Open...so....also not Bay Hill




    Ok, here it is







    -Chris
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  • thesaxemachinethesaxemachine Hello, friends... Advanced Members Posts: 431 ✭✭
    Long par 3s are generally a snooze fest.
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  • dukemandukeman Advanced Members Posts: 868 ✭✭
    There’s a big difference between a green that repels poorly struck or offline shots (Augusta National) and one that repels all shots (US Open Shinnecock). My personal thought is that of the best players in the world the ones playing the best that week ought to be able to hit a solid shot to the green and hold it. Maybe not suck it back 20 feet but at least hold it.



    The 17th at Bay Hill was playing a little too close to Shinnecock for my tastes....almost no way to play at the pin and hold the green. There’s also no slope on the green so there’s no way to play left and use the ground to move the ball to the hole. There’s just no way for a great player to hit a great shot. Even Molinaris Shot landed on the front of the green and bounced all the way over the back.



    In contrast, consider the right pin position on the 17th at TPC Sawgrass. A lot of balls hit at the pin will bounce into the water. Others will miss the green entirely. A smart player who hits the ball solidly and with the right spin and shape, however, can play safely left of the pin but use spin and the slope to get the ball close.



    If great players can’t hit great shots, what’s the point?



  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Advanced Members Posts: 24,214 ✭✭






    Thats not Bay Hill




    That is also not Bay Hill lol




    Ok, one more try



    [media=]



    -Chris




    Thats the US Open...so....also not Bay Hill




    Ok, here it is







    -Chris




    That’s pro level trolling motor work !! Lol. Well played good sir !
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  • deadsolid...shankdeadsolid...shank ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 14,330 ClubWRX
    the bishop wrote:


    What course makes the 17th hole a par 3 anyway? Oh wait....most of them. Nothing says they've got to be easy.




    Just thinking back through my three main courses, all of them have a par three on 17.
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  • tideridertiderider Advanced Members Posts: 1,310 ✭✭
    dukeman wrote:


    There's a big difference between a green that repels poorly struck or offline shots (Augusta National) and one that repels all shots (US Open Shinnecock). My personal thought is that of the best players in the world the ones playing the best that week ought to be able to hit a solid shot to the green and hold it. Maybe not suck it back 20 feet but at least hold it.



    The 17th at Bay Hill was playing a little too close to Shinnecock for my tastes....almost no way to play at the pin and hold the green. There's also no slope on the green so there's no way to play left and use the ground to move the ball to the hole. There's just no way for a great player to hit a great shot. Even Molinaris Shot landed on the front of the green and bounced all the way over the back.



    In contrast, consider the right pin position on the 17th at TPC Sawgrass. A lot of balls hit at the pin will bounce into the water. Others will miss the green entirely. A smart player who hits the ball solidly and with the right spin and shape, however, can play safely left of the pin but use spin and the slope to get the ball close.



    If great players can't hit great shots, what's the point?




    sometimes you just want/need a brutally hard hole for the player ... you want the player to say "birdie probably ain't gonna happen, so how do i get par?" ...
  • ItIsJackItIsJack Advanced Members Posts: 78
    dukeman wrote:
    There&#146;s a big difference between a green that repels poorly struck or offline shots (Augusta National) and one that repels all shots (US Open Shinnecock). My personal thought is that of the best players in the world the ones playing the best that week ought to be able to hit a solid shot to the green and hold it. Maybe not suck it back 20 feet but at least hold it.



    The 17th at Bay Hill was playing a little too close to Shinnecock for my tastes....almost no way to play at the pin and hold the green. There&#146;s also no slope on the green so there&#146;s no way to play left and use the ground to move the ball to the hole. There&#146;s just no way for a great player to hit a great shot. Even Molinaris Shot landed on the front of the green and bounced all the way over the back.



    In contrast, consider the right pin position on the 17th at TPC Sawgrass. A lot of balls hit at the pin will bounce into the water. Others will miss the green entirely. A smart player who hits the ball solidly and with the right spin and shape, however, can play safely left of the pin but use spin and the slope to get the ball close.



    If great players can&#146;t hit great shots, what&#146;s the point?




    This explains in perfectly. At Augusta a great shot gives you a birdie opportunity and a bad shot puts you hoping to make par/bogey. This hole is boring because a good shot ends up 45ft away and a great shot ends up 35ft.
  • MidwestGolfBumMidwestGolfBum Advanced Members Posts: 1,260 ✭✭
    dukeman wrote:


    There's a big difference between a green that repels poorly struck or offline shots (Augusta National) and one that repels all shots (US Open Shinnecock). My personal thought is that of the best players in the world the ones playing the best that week ought to be able to hit a solid shot to the green and hold it. Maybe not suck it back 20 feet but at least hold it.



    The 17th at Bay Hill was playing a little too close to Shinnecock for my tastes....almost no way to play at the pin and hold the green. There's also no slope on the green so there's no way to play left and use the ground to move the ball to the hole. There's just no way for a great player to hit a great shot. Even Molinaris Shot landed on the front of the green and bounced all the way over the back.



    In contrast, consider the right pin position on the 17th at TPC Sawgrass. A lot of balls hit at the pin will bounce into the water. Others will miss the green entirely. A smart player who hits the ball solidly and with the right spin and shape, however, can play safely left of the pin but use spin and the slope to get the ball close.



    If great players can't hit great shots, what's the point?




    Sometimes the point of a pin position is to NOT allow a player to fire right at the pin and to have to think of how to get the ball to it, either by working a ball towards it and letting a ball run out on the green or by using slopes.



    Yes, the green was firm, yes, the pin position was hard to get close to, but no, it wasn't impossible to make birdie. 15, 18, 14, and 11 all averaged above par scores for the 4th round, should we change all of those, as well? Molinari made par or birdie on all those holes, Fitzpatrick did not. I would say the guy who played the back 9 better and managed his game won the event while also hitting some great shots.
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  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Advanced Members Posts: 3,546 ✭✭
    I think it's the best par-3 on Tour. It actually has one of the highest putting make percentages on Tour as the green is very flat and the greens are in great shape. You just have to hit the ball reasonably close. But, it also yields a lot of bombs to be made.



    It's a beautiful hole with form following function in the design and it has the uniqueness of the beach sand. To me, it doesn't get any better.













    RH
  • MilkyButterCutsMilkyButterCuts Advanced Members Posts: 622 ✭✭
    edited March 12
    Tell you what though christosterone I'm still more than happy to watch those. Thx!
  • the bishopthe bishop Advanced Members Posts: 3,168 ✭✭

    the bishop wrote:


    What course makes the 17th hole a par 3 anyway? Oh wait....most of them. Nothing says they've got to be easy.




    Just thinking back through my three main courses, all of them have a par three on 17.


    Well that was pretty much my point in response to the OP. 17th hole par 3's are pretty standard around the country and no different at Bay Hill. It's just that BH is a little tougher examination than most on Tour so the holes are going to be challenging - even *gasp* the par 3's. I think it's a good hole.
    W/S FG Tour F5 10.5* - Fubuki z50 - S
    W/S FG Tour F5 15* - Fubuki z65 - S
    W/S FG Tour F5 20*/23* - Fubuki z80 - S
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  • WidespreadPanicWidespreadPanic Wizard in the Corner Advanced Members Posts: 4,797
    I don’t think it’s a bad hole, but in my opinion it should have been 190, not 220. With that pin it’ still takes a great shot and would be a tough birdie, but there’s the possibility of one.
    Taylormade M2 ('17) 10.5*
    Cobra F7 15.5*
    Taylormade M1 ('17) 19*
    Mizuno MP18 Fli Hi 4i
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    Cleveland RTX 588 2.0 52**, 56**, 60**
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