How coming from money helps guys reach the tour..

J2puttsJ2putts Posts: 604 ✭✭
edited Mar 10, 2019 9:20pm in Tour Talk #1
Been thinking about this . Out of all the sports i watch , golf is the only sport to me where it is equally important to have the financial resources as it is to have the talent . Right off the bat guys like Peter Uihlein and Mav McNealy come to mind. These guys had unlimited financial resources and even more important no worries about money as they made their ways up the level of tours. YouTube is chock full of guys with serious game , but lack of resources which basically puts extreme pressure on guys like that as opposed to other kids like Uihlein , McNealy ...and now following George Gankas who teaches kids who come from serious money like Tristan Gretzky. So generally speaking , I know there are guys who didn't come from money ...but generally speaking is it more important to have the deep pockets or the deep talent ? Just seems like a player with superior talent might lose out on opportunities to that of a player with good talent , and unlimited funds.
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Comments

  • third-times-a-charmthird-times-a-charm Members Posts: 1,398 ✭✭
    Plenty of guys out there with tons of money in country clubs across the world who can't hack it in real tourny play....it goes both ways.
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  • hell_is_chromehell_is_chrome Members Posts: 922 ✭✭
    J2putts wrote:


    Been thinking about this . Out of all the sports i watch , golf is the only sport to me where it is equally important to have the financial resources as it is to have the talent . Right off the bat guys like Peter Uihlein and Mav McNealy come to mind. These guys had unlimited financial resources and even more important no worries about money as they made their ways up the level of tours. YouTube is chock full of guys with serious game , but lack of resources which basically puts extreme pressure on guys like that as opposed to other kids like Uihlein , McNealy ...and now following George Gankas who teaches kids who come from serious money like Tristan Gretzky. So generally speaking , I know there are guys who didn't come from money ...but generally speaking is it more important to have the deep pockets or the deep talent ? Just seems like a player with experimentally might lose out on opportunities to that of a player with good talent , and unlimited funds.




    I don't know about unlimited funds, but it makes a difference to have parents who can afford weekly or monthly lessons and a decent course to play a lot let alone good equipment.
  • LeoLeo99LeoLeo99 Members Posts: 3,922 ✭✭
    Still need to be hungry to succeed on the pro tour.
  • FrostfieldFrostfield Posts: 893 ✭✭
    edited Mar 10, 2019 9:23pm #5
    Money helps in golf. Period.
  • toctoc Members Posts: 2,710 ✭✭
    These days money absolutely makes it easier, or at least shortens the process of making it on tour. In thinking about the greatest golfers of all time I can only think of a few that truly came from wealth. Wonder if that trend is changing and if the list of great golfers 50+ years from now will be filled with people coming from money.
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  • lumberman2462lumberman2462 Members Posts: 5,324 ✭✭
    Deep pockets early will always have an advantage in golf. Premium instruction at an early age means kids with means will win earlier and develop the game and confidence that will carry through to a successful career.



    Here’s the deal, I’ve been around golf for 40 of my 48 years...and I’ve seen it all.



    Kids that grew up with not much money beating the ever living $@&;” out of rich kids and seeing young players with some means at their disposal becoming good players- but not great.



    The junior tours are full of the sons and daughters of Doctors, Dentists, Lawyers and whatever successful profession you can dream up...

    Some become ok players and others flame out.



    I can’t condemn a kid because his Dad started a computer company...you still have to hit the shots and make the putts.



    Wealth always has an advantage. But it most certainly doesn’t guarantee success.
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  • Holy MosesHoly Moses Members Posts: 10,444 ✭✭
    It does make it easier. Maverick McNealy's parents only helped him during his first season on the Web.com Tour, then he had to pay for everything himself. Tiger didn't come from money. Who knows what would have happened in Tiger's junior days had IMG not paid Early $50k a year as an advisor - money that helped Tiger get around on the junior circuits. Tiger's lack of money did fuel his intensity. He wanted to crush Trip Kuehne in the US Amateur finals because Trip came from money and Tiger wanted to show the world that a guy from average means could compete at the highest level. So money can definitely help, but lack of money can also fuel the desire to win that might not be there for someone who has all the money in the world.
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  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX Posts: 24,198 ClubWRX
    Travel hockey parents would like you to consider their investment.
  • RohlioRohlio Members Posts: 2,308 ✭✭


    Plenty of guys out there with tons of money in country clubs across the world who can't hack it in real tourny play....it goes both ways.




    Uh yeah finances are not sufficient to make an elite golfer... But they are necessary.



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  • J2puttsJ2putts Posts: 604 ✭✭
    By no means am I implying that money is the blueprint to success . I'm just thinking about a guy like Uihlein who to his credit was the #1 amateur in the world . However ...he spent quite a few years spinning his wheels a bit over in Europe . He didn't have the pressure of " if I miss another cut , that's it i can't afford to do this anymore" That is a MASSIVE advantage mentally , over the guy low on the money list who is trying to figure out if he can afford to keep going .
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  • BottleCapBottleCap Members Posts: 1,266 ✭✭
    Hitting balls at the range isn't cheap for kids



    Say a kid wants to hit balls every day that's gotta be 300 a month, that's a lot of money for a non wealthy family
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  • Rosco1216Rosco1216 Members Posts: 2,975 ✭✭
    A child/kid//teenager who is fortunate enough to have access to world class instructors(not just your local driving range pro) and top of the line facilities throughout their childhood is certainly more likely to reach their full golf potential VS. one who does not have any of that.
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  • J2puttsJ2putts Posts: 604 ✭✭
    DavePelz4 wrote:


    Travel hockey parents would like you to consider their investment.
    I thought of hockey after my initial post ...
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  • J2puttsJ2putts Posts: 604 ✭✭
    Rosco1216 wrote:


    A child/kid//teenager who is fortunate enough to have access to world class instructors(not just your local driving range pro) and top of the line facilities throughout their childhood is certainly more likely to reach their full golf potential VS. one who does not have any of that.
    Exactly . Uihlein grew up in my town . He moved to Florida with his mother to specifically focus on golf and went to some world class golf academy
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  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Posts: 17,342 ClubWRX
    Two examples out of hundreds of pros. "Coming from money" seems to be your idea of wealthy parents and a very limited and somewhat biased opinion - big difference between "coming from money" and figuring out how to come up with the money, which is what lots of parents/aspiring pros go through. And yes, it takes money.
  • J2puttsJ2putts Posts: 604 ✭✭
    BottleCap wrote:


    Hitting balls at the range isn't cheap for kids



    Say a kid wants to hit balls every day that's gotta be 300 a month, that's a lot of money for a non wealthy family
    kids can get a junior membership at a public course for $300 a YEAR
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  • CattyCatty Members Posts: 22 ✭✭
    I’m living proof of the theory. I didn’t come from money and I play like ****.
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  • J2puttsJ2putts Posts: 604 ✭✭
    Hawkeye77 wrote:


    Two examples out of hundreds of pros. "Coming from money" seems to be your idea of wealthy parents and a very limited and somewhat biased opinion - big difference between "coming from money" and figuring out how to come up with the money, which is what lots of parents/aspiring pros go through. And yes, it takes money.
    There are more than two examples of players coming from money. Those two i mentioned are on the extreme level of financial luxury , but the tour is full of private country club kids .
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  • Man_O_WarMan_O_War Members Posts: 2,717 ✭✭
    for every wealthy guy, i will show you 20 on tour from very humble beginnings : Tiger, Bubba, Couples...so so many...public courses was where they got their starts. Maybe that's impossible now..money always helps..and it is not indicator of how hungry a player would be. Nicklaus arguably came from some resources...and he fought with talent given just as hard as a Trevino. Still have an issue with that Nicklaus Trevino early era and all the caucasian only clauses denying others a livelihood..the hussle should always be the hustle..open to all.
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  • straightshot7straightshot7 Members Posts: 2,907 ✭✭
    Deep talent, desire and work ethic is waaaay more important.



    Look up all the stories of guys who hit balls in the backyard, garage into mattress, etc.



    If you have the game people will back you, too.



    I think you'd be really hard pressed to find a guy who had world class game but didn't make it because of lack of money. Unless he refused to be sponsored and quit. But that's a choice that stopped him.



    Those guys on YouTube you referenced aren't firing 65's on a routine basis in tournaments. Their game is what's stopping them.



    Show me someone who can consistently shoot 65-69 in tournaments and I'll show you 5000 guys who will sponsor his way through Q School.
  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 26,082 ✭✭
    edited Mar 10, 2019 10:04pm #22
    Catty wrote:


    I’m living proof of the theory. I didn’t come from money and I play like ****.




    Keep telling yourself that.



    Lol, kidding, and I know youre being sarcastic.



    Id agree that the money is a factor. And to the extent that money is required to play golf relative to say, basketball, it has impacted the volume, demographics and cultural backgrounds of participants with significant potential..



    There is a lower level of quality of athlete playing golf relative to other sports due to this.
  • BrianMcGBrianMcG Members Posts: 2,215 ✭✭
    Money helps all sports.



    Do you think a high school football player benefits from a program that builds them a $20,000,000 facility with trainers and the best coach in the state?

    Or a kid that travels the country with a baseball team?

    Or what about all the tennis camps where all the top players come from. Boleteri didn't work for free.



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  • Bingo1976Bingo1976 Posts: 2,493 ClubWRX
    J2putts wrote:

    DavePelz4 wrote:


    Travel hockey parents would like you to consider their investment.
    I thought of hockey after my initial post ...




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  • tdk8180tdk8180 Members Posts: 2,401 ✭✭
    I agree with money helping, but it doesnt replace raw talent. If you have raw talent plus money, the only thing holding you back is your potentially broken mind. Fix that and you're golden.



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  • J2putts wrote:


    By no means am I implying that money is the blueprint to success . I'm just thinking about a guy like Uihlein who to his credit was the #1 amateur in the world . However ...he spent quite a few years spinning his wheels a bit over in Europe . He didn't have the pressure of " if I miss another cut , that's it i can't afford to do this anymore" That is a MASSIVE advantage mentally , over the guy low on the money list who is trying to figure out if he can afford to keep going .




    You do realize why he was in Europe right ? Because he had his tour card there and didn’t want to get to the pga tour on any sponsor exemptions for who he was and not his world ranking. http://www.owgr.com/en/Ranking/PlayerProfile.aspx?playerID=11357



    I’d hardly call this spinning your tires.



    But to your point money definility helps, it’s all about who can survive the longest and patiently wait for their shot.
  • herdmanherdman Members Posts: 711 ✭✭
    Football and basketball are the two sports where it takes less money. In football you can't teach size and speed. Basketball you can play on a local court or gym somewhere. That is why there so many minorities at the highest levels in both. Many from very humble or very poor beginnings. In the USA, baseball now takes money for travel leagues. Same for hockey and some others. Golf still takes some money because at some point you are going to have to pay for green fees and likely lessons.
  • Man_O_WarMan_O_War Members Posts: 2,717 ✭✭
    herdman wrote:


    Football and basketball are the two sports where it takes less money. In football you can't teach size and speed. Basketball you can play on a local court or gym somewhere. That is why there so many minorities at the highest levels in both. Many from very humble or very poor beginnings. In the USA, baseball now takes money for travel leagues. Same for hockey and some others. Golf still takes some money because at some point you are going to have to pay for green fees and likely lessons.






    had to laugh a little....playing at a local court or gym somewhere...isn't that equivalent to playing golf at a public/muni course? if most of these players were ending up in the NFL/NBA from playing around on local grounds only, every one would be doing it... indeed, they are minorities mainly but most go through the college path, where the colleges pour a ton of money into the athletes for them to manifest their size and speed.....then they end up in the NFL/NBA...far from cheap...even relatively.
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  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Posts: 17,342 ClubWRX
    J2putts wrote:

    Hawkeye77 wrote:


    Two examples out of hundreds of pros. "Coming from money" seems to be your idea of wealthy parents and a very limited and somewhat biased opinion - big difference between "coming from money" and figuring out how to come up with the money, which is what lots of parents/aspiring pros go through. And yes, it takes money.
    There are more than two examples of players coming from money. Those two i mentioned are on the extreme level of financial luxury , but the tour is full of private country club kids .




    Again, money is needed and your bias is clear.
  • playar32playar32 Posts: 272 ✭✭
    I get what you're saying, you don't have pressure if you have financial backing. But you could also reverse it, if you have more pressure you might be more focused. Look at KJ Choi, he had to travel ~6 hours one way to get to a course when he started playing. Would it have been better for him if his father was CEO of a major golf company and he could walk into his backyard and be on a course, yes. Would it have made it better, who knows.



    I think most sports are going the money route. Most recruiting for college is now done in AAU leagues, or travel teams (except for football, because of the limited number of games). I know some colleges when I played in high school who didn't even look at your high school golf team scores.
  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 26,082 ✭✭
    edited Mar 10, 2019 11:41pm #31
    Man_O_War wrote:

    herdman wrote:


    Football and basketball are the two sports where it takes less money. In football you can't teach size and speed. Basketball you can play on a local court or gym somewhere. That is why there so many minorities at the highest levels in both. Many from very humble or very poor beginnings. In the USA, baseball now takes money for travel leagues. Same for hockey and some others. Golf still takes some money because at some point you are going to have to pay for green fees and likely lessons.






    had to laugh a little....playing at a local court or gym somewhere...isn't that equivalent to playing golf at a public/muni course? if most of these players were ending up in the NFL/NBA from playing around on local grounds only, every one would be doing it... indeed, they are minorities mainly but most go through the college path, where the colleges pour a ton of money into the athletes for them to manifest their size and speed.....then they end up in the NFL/NBA...far from cheap...even relatively.




    A kid can play basketball for free, just the cost of sneakers, until he goes to college.



    In golf, the cost is many, many thousands to get to that point.



    If those same kids who played elite youth basketball had the same money and access to golf from childhood



    The PGA tour would be at a far superior level. Courses be like 9000 yards and youd see guys hole out from all around the green with



    Nothing but cup



    On a regular basis ; )





    ,
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