My Experience Gaming Blades as a Mid-High Handicapper

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  • dciccorittidciccoritti An inch an hour, 2 feet a day Toronto, CanadaMembers Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @BiggErn said:
    That some people...try and play a difficult game by making it more difficult?

    It doesn't. What I mean is it doesn't for everyone. Maybe it did for you but it doesn't for many of us. Everyone is different and we are not you.....Thank God! :-)

    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway

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  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @dciccoritti said:

    @BiggErn said:
    That some people...try and play a difficult game by making it more difficult?

    It doesn't. What I mean is it doesn't for everyone. Maybe it did for you but it doesn't for many of us. Everyone is different and we are not you.....Thank God! :-)

    If you’re a double digit HC playing blades you are making it more difficult. I don’t care about what looks good to you, your confidence, your “focus”, your “miss”, or whatever. If you don’t hit the ball pure virtually every time and you’re playing blades anything you say afterwards to justify it is just blowing smoke. What’s worse is how many have played them for years and still a double digit HC yet claim superior focus, confidence, workability (lol), etc. I don’t care what you play or what you say to yourself to convince yourself to play whatever just don’t expect rational people to believe it.

  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 12, 2019 1:21am #1414

    @mahonie said:

    @BiggErn said:

    @mahonie said:

    @BiggErn said:

    @mahonie said:

    @balls_deep said:

    @mahonie said:

    @BiggErn said:

    @chisag said:
    @Bubbtubbs said:

    XG did a comparison with an SGI club as well in another video. Basically, if you can get the flight you want out of the blade, there's such a tiny difference between the two that it comes down to personal preference.

    ... You see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. Matt's contact is very tight and Ian clearly states "if someone spreads the strike across the face, toe heel a little bit more, there will be more drop off with a blade".

    Some people just can’t admit or are ignorant to the fact that there’s ABSOLUTELY no benefit to playing a blade if you don’t pound the middle of the face.

    Numbers on Trackman and scores on course tell me the absolute opposite.

    However, it is obvious where the market is going and that the OEMs have won. Went into a golf store yesterday for the first time in 12 months and they didn’t carry any MBs or for that matter many player’s CBs...there wasn’t even a stiff shaft to be seen in any of the iron sets or woods in the store.

    The sheep will all get fitted into clubs in that store that will ‘improve their games’ only to find that 12 months later that they have regressed. Guess what? They’re still sheep so they will then go and get fitted for more technologically advanced clubs that will make them better and the cycle continues, fuelled by the other ignorant sheep who think that you can buy a game. The only beneficiaries are the OEMs who are fleecing the herd taken in by the marketing spiel.

    Do you genuinely think that mid-high caps lose no performance using blades?

    Like all things in golf, it’s player-specific...in my experience as a 10-12 cap, I am not giving anything up at all. I’ve played combo sets, players CBs and MBs and my best scoring has always been with MBs.

    I am positive that there are mid-cap guys out there who would benefit from blades but they get talked out of it. I’ve been to fittings where the first question asked is “What’s your handicap?” Based on mine, the first clubs to be tested were always player’s CBs. When I’ve asked to try MBs, the response is usually “Really?” quickly followed by “You shouldn’t be hitting that club that well.”

    If there’s any advantage out there, I want it as much as the next player. Every time I’ve had a fitting, MBs have always come out on top for me.

    How does any double digit HC benefit from playing blades?

    Can’t speak for others, but for me it’s distance control and dispersion.

    Then why are you a double digit HC?

    Typical round: 2 birdies, 9 pars, 3 bogies, 2 double bogeys, 2 triples. Errors leading to big scores are typically poor tee shots, poor bunker play generally, the odd duffed chip, poor pitching 30-100 yards. The errors come in patches in the round and one is compounded by the next. I frequently shoot around par for one 9, then blow up on the other and just as frequently I can blow up on both 9s ;-).

    With me I know it’s a confidence thing...I find it hard to stay confident in all aspects and particularly pitching where I could save the majority of my mistakes.

    Typical round ? As in "average" ? Do you keep all your stats ?

    I doubt there's a double digit handicapper on the planet that averages 2 birdies per round. Around 4-5 GREENS per round on average. 2 birdies ? Not likely. Justin Thomas(?) leads the Tour at 4.5 per. LOL

    Blowing up on BOTH 9s wouldn't even get into your handicap. You "frequently shoot par on 1 9 and 1 blow up on the other 9" ? Just how badly do you "blow up" ?

    You sound like someone with a selective memory - not that that makes you unique by any means - but you've been one of the most rabid blade supporters on this thread and I'm not sure where you've ever "confessed" to have even given GIs a "legitimate" try........

    And members want to know why ol' Barf wants WRX to create a "scratch" players forum ??? LOL

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  • dciccorittidciccoritti An inch an hour, 2 feet a day Toronto, CanadaMembers Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @BiggErn said:

    @dciccoritti said:

    @BiggErn said:
    That some people...try and play a difficult game by making it more difficult?

    It doesn't. What I mean is it doesn't for everyone. Maybe it did for you but it doesn't for many of us. Everyone is different and we are not you.....Thank God! :-)

    If you’re a double digit HC playing blades you are making it more difficult. I don’t care about what looks good to you, your confidence, your “focus”, your “miss”, or whatever. If you don’t hit the ball pure virtually every time and you’re playing blades anything you say afterwards to justify it is just blowing smoke. What’s worse is how many have played them for years and still a double digit HC yet claim superior focus, confidence, workability (lol), etc. I don’t care what you play or what you say to yourself to convince yourself to play whatever just don’t expect rational people to believe it.

    Blades do not make the game harder for any HC. Single, double or triple. If it doesn't work for you, it's more mental in terms of confidence, trust and comfort. Otherwise a blade do pretty much everything every other iron does assuming swing speed and swing is identical. Not sure how to explain it to you and the others. The swing can and will change under a variety of circumstances simply based on the mental aspect. Put water in front of the green and the swing 'can' change dramatically. Down in a match going into the last 2 holes. Walking up to a tee box on a hole that has your number. Or simply playing a course that doesn't suit your eye.

    Toe hits are just as good as any other iron out there but they won't 'feel' the same. Bottom strikes are excellent. Dispersion both left-right, front-back is top notch. Distance per loft is nothing short of fantastic. All good with a relaxed and confident swing. All good when the golfer has complete comfort and trust in them. However remove the comfort, trust and the swing begins to fall apart which ultimately leads to a lack of confidence causing the swing to fall apart even more.

    Not the clubs fault but humans are renown for blaming everything but themselves. I don't go around saying that a particular iron or type of iron is this or that because ultimately it's us who consciously and sub-consciously will decide whether it works well or not.

    I hit my MB's great today. What was even better was that my driver and short game was really good today too. Shot a 73. Still much to do to improve but a so called 'forgiving' iron is not on that list and there is no iron out there that will save me even a quarter of a stroke. And no I don't hit the so called 'pea sized' sweet spot very often.

    Swing is KING and trust and comfort in your equipment is sorely underrated. And whatever variable or variables leads to comfort and trust or inspires someone to play and improve is a completely individual thing and we should all respect that.

    I've done very well in the work force and yet I was never motivated by money. However other have done very well also and money was their sole motivation. Some might have done very well being motivated to 'be someone'. You can't just walk in here and tell others what their specific motivations or inspirations should be. Nor can you tell someone what works for them or not because it depends on so many variables that you know nothing about.

    So stop telling everyone how you think it is or how you think it should be because there isn't single person alive or dead that even remotely had anything truly figured out or understood. Maturity and wisdom admits to knowing and understanding less and less as time goes by.

    Time for bed...

    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway

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  • rt_chargerrt_charger Ball Hitter Members Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
    edited Aug 12, 2019 3:06am #1416

    @BiggErn said:

    @dciccoritti said:

    @BiggErn said:
    That some people...try and play a difficult game by making it more difficult?

    It doesn't. What I mean is it doesn't for everyone. Maybe it did for you but it doesn't for many of us. Everyone is different and we are not you.....Thank God! :-)

    If you’re a double digit HC playing blades you are making it more difficult. I don’t care about what looks good to you, your confidence, your “focus”, your “miss”, or whatever. If you don’t hit the ball pure virtually every time and you’re playing blades anything you say afterwards to justify it is just blowing smoke. What’s worse is how many have played them for years and still a double digit HC yet claim superior focus, confidence, workability (lol), etc. I don’t care what you play or what you say to yourself to convince yourself to play whatever just don’t expect rational people to believe it.

    @BiggErn said:

    @rt_charger said:

    @BiggErn said:

    @rt_charger said:

    @BiggErn said:
    Golf is hard. The idea that someone focuses more with one club versus another is beyond ridiculous.

    Lol. My god it’s not that complex and that’s total bs.
    And has nothing to do with what club is in your hands! 😂

    This just proves you're an idiot. Golf is entirely a mental game - name one other sport that has a repeated action like golf, done once every couple of minutes for a total of minimum 4 hours?

    It most certainly is that complex, you just need to have an understanding of human psychology to actually get it.

    It is 100% a fact that people in general will focus less on something that appears simple or easy (in comparison to something that's harder). You put a shovel in their hands and they'll swing it normally. You put a blade in their hands and you seriously think they won't react to it?

    Lol. More utter bs.

    If it's BS then disprove it lol.

    Disprove what? That some people with self proclaimed mental issues try and play a difficult game by making it more difficult? It’s absolutely absurd to think someone focuses or concentrates less or more with one club versus another. If you’ve been playing blades for over a year and still a double digit HC without hitting the sweet spot 99% of the time you already have disproved it. To say there’s no feedback on certain clubs is also absolutely ridiculous.

    Nice one, not answering the question. All you're talking about are obvious facts that I even agree with. You just keep saying that it doesn't make people focus more, where's the proof that it doesn't?

    Now before you say the same darn thing again, focusing more IS NOT directly related to playing better. If someone is a double digit capper playing blades, who's to say they aren't focusing more with them? Actually might be focusing too much which can cause issues.

    For the people who have the ability to, playing with blades will actually make them concentrate on their strike more and will make them better in time.

    "Golf is a game that is played on a five-inch course - the distance between your ears." - Bobby Jones
  • zoned_post_meridiemzoned_post_meridiem Members Posts: 95 ✭✭✭

    @BiggErn said:

    @zoned_post_meridiem said:

    @BiggErn said:
    Golf is hard. The idea that someone focuses more with one club versus another is beyond ridiculous.

    And yet, pros get the yips, low handicappers forget how to put, etc etc. Mental stuff matters, and can be weird, and can be idiosyncratic.

    I'm not really affected by iron choice, but in my last round, I found myself in the sand too often. Two of them were awful lies - steep downhill, slipping, feet at odd angles to stabilize myself. Both were the best sand shots I ever had; the others (from better lies) were awful. Why? The bad ones required laser focus; the others. Isn't it conceivable that facing a challenging/small club shape could improve someone's focus?

    And has nothing to do with what club is in your hands! 😂

    I know. But for some the club in their hand might provide that kind of mental tweak in one direction or another. Just pointing out that yes, golf is hard, but also, the mental part of golf can be weird and unpredictable.

    But look, we don't have any data, so we're not going to agree on this, and that's fine. Though next time I get fitted for irons, I'll have them throw some blades into the mix, just in case :)

  • mahoniemahonie EnglandMembers Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @nsxguy said:

    Typical round ? As in "average" ? Do you keep all your stats ?

    I doubt there's a double digit handicapper on the planet that averages 2 birdies per round. Around 4-5 GREENS per round on average. 2 birdies ? Not likely. Justin Thomas(?) leads the Tour at 4.5 per. LOL

    Blowing up on BOTH 9s wouldn't even get into your handicap. You "frequently shoot par on 1 9 and 1 blow up on the other 9" ? Just how badly do you "blow up" ?

    You sound like someone with a selective memory - not that that makes you unique by any means - but you've been one of the most rabid blade supporters on this thread and I'm not sure where you've ever "confessed" to have even given GIs a "legitimate" try........

    And members want to know why ol' Barf wants WRX to create a "scratch" players forum ??? LOL

    Justin Thomas doesn’t average 3 double bogeys a round does he? Or throw at least one triple in per round?

    Blowing up both 9s? Yes I’ve had rounds in the 90s and then follow that with a 76 with 2 penalties and a 3-putt. 45 front 9, 35 back 9? Been there, done that...more than once.

    I’ve disclosed that I played Nike Split Cavities for 3 years before switching to the MP4s. I have a set of Mac MT Pro-Cs in my back up bag...they do not give me as much as the MP4s...if they did they wouldn’t be in the back up bag would they?

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  • mahoniemahonie EnglandMembers Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @BiggErn said:

    @rt_charger said:

    @BiggErn said:

    @rt_charger said:

    @BiggErn said:
    Golf is hard. The idea that someone focuses more with one club versus another is beyond ridiculous.

    Lol. My god it’s not that complex and that’s total bs.
    And has nothing to do with what club is in your hands! 😂

    This just proves you're an idiot. Golf is entirely a mental game - name one other sport that has a repeated action like golf, done once every couple of minutes for a total of minimum 4 hours?

    It most certainly is that complex, you just need to have an understanding of human psychology to actually get it.

    It is 100% a fact that people in general will focus less on something that appears simple or easy (in comparison to something that's harder). You put a shovel in their hands and they'll swing it normally. You put a blade in their hands and you seriously think they won't react to it?

    Lol. More utter bs.

    If it's BS then disprove it lol.

    Disprove what? That some people with self proclaimed mental issues try and play a difficult game by making it more difficult? It’s absolutely absurd to think someone focuses or concentrates less or more with one club versus another. If you’ve been playing blades for over a year and still a double digit HC without hitting the sweet spot 99% of the time you already have disproved it. To say there’s no feedback on certain clubs is also absolutely ridiculous.

    So by playing CBs for 3 years with my handicap getting no better, then dropping 2 shots within 6 months of switching to MBs what does that prove?

    Doesn’t work that way for everyone, I get it...some people’s fine motor skills are different...I can’t understand why you don’t get it. What clubs are you using BiggErn? What’s your handicap? Perhaps that will give us all a clue ;-)

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  • balls_deepballs_deep Members Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @dciccoritti said:

    @BiggErn said:

    @dciccoritti said:

    @BiggErn said:
    That some people...try and play a difficult game by making it more difficult?

    It doesn't. What I mean is it doesn't for everyone. Maybe it did for you but it doesn't for many of us. Everyone is different and we are not you.....Thank God! :-)

    If you’re a double digit HC playing blades you are making it more difficult. I don’t care about what looks good to you, your confidence, your “focus”, your “miss”, or whatever. If you don’t hit the ball pure virtually every time and you’re playing blades anything you say afterwards to justify it is just blowing smoke. What’s worse is how many have played them for years and still a double digit HC yet claim superior focus, confidence, workability (lol), etc. I don’t care what you play or what you say to yourself to convince yourself to play whatever just don’t expect rational people to believe it.

    Blades do not make the game harder for any HC. Single, double or triple. If it doesn't work for you, it's more mental in terms of confidence, trust and comfort. Otherwise a blade do pretty much everything every other iron does assuming swing speed and swing is identical. Not sure how to explain it to you and the others. The swing can and will change under a variety of circumstances simply based on the mental aspect. Put water in front of the green and the swing 'can' change dramatically. Down in a match going into the last 2 holes. Walking up to a tee box on a hole that has your number. Or simply playing a course that doesn't suit your eye.

    Toe hits are just as good as any other iron out there but they won't 'feel' the same. Bottom strikes are excellent. Dispersion both left-right, front-back is top notch. Distance per loft is nothing short of fantastic. All good with a relaxed and confident swing. All good when the golfer has complete comfort and trust in them. However remove the comfort, trust and the swing begins to fall apart which ultimately leads to a lack of confidence causing the swing to fall apart even more.

    Not the clubs fault but humans are renown for blaming everything but themselves. I don't go around saying that a particular iron or type of iron is this or that because ultimately it's us who consciously and sub-consciously will decide whether it works well or not.

    I hit my MB's great today. What was even better was that my driver and short game was really good today too. Shot a 73. Still much to do to improve but a so called 'forgiving' iron is not on that list and there is no iron out there that will save me even a quarter of a stroke. And no I don't hit the so called 'pea sized' sweet spot very often.

    Swing is KING and trust and comfort in your equipment is sorely underrated. And whatever variable or variables leads to comfort and trust or inspires someone to play and improve is a completely individual thing and we should all respect that.

    I've done very well in the work force and yet I was never motivated by money. However other have done very well also and money was their sole motivation. Some might have done very well being motivated to 'be someone'. You can't just walk in here and tell others what their specific motivations or inspirations should be. Nor can you tell someone what works for them or not because it depends on so many variables that you know nothing about.

    So stop telling everyone how you think it is or how you think it should be because there isn't single person alive or dead that even remotely had anything truly figured out or understood. Maturity and wisdom admits to knowing and understanding less and less as time goes by.

    Time for bed...

    Generally decent post but you lose a ton of credibility when you say toe shots aren't worse with an MB. I'm playing blades right now and I do so because my miss is vertical rather than lateral. Saying miss hits aren't more punished just ruins your argument. Play blades because it's what you want to play, you like the look of them, or because you like to say, "I shot **** and that's while playing blades", but don't try to make it something it isn't.

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  • chippa13chippa13 Members Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I prefer cars that don't have power steering because then I focus more on driving.

  • BubbtubbsBubbtubbs Members Posts: 476 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 12, 2019 12:42pm #1422

    @rt_charger said:

    @BiggErn said:

    @rt_charger said:

    @BiggErn said:
    Golf is hard. The idea that someone focuses more with one club versus another is beyond ridiculous.

    Lol. My god it’s not that complex and that’s total bs.
    And has nothing to do with what club is in your hands! 😂

    This just proves you're an idiot. Golf is entirely a mental game - name one other sport that has a repeated action like golf, done once every couple of minutes for a total of minimum 4 hours?

    It most certainly is that complex, you just need to have an understanding of human psychology to actually get it.

    It is 100% a fact that people in general will focus less on something that appears simple or easy (in comparison to something that's harder). You put a shovel in their hands and they'll swing it normally. You put a blade in their hands and you seriously think they won't react to it?

    Lol. More utter bs.

    If it's BS then disprove it lol.

    To be fair, how proof works is that the burden is on the claimant, so your assertion that it increases focus is what needs to be demonstrated.

    It's like asking to prove God doesn't exist. You can't prove a negative, so you have to prove they do exist instead.

    @chippa13 said:
    I prefer cars that don't have power steering because then I focus more on driving.

    Actually my dream car is a 1979 911 Turbo. No airbags, no stability/traction control, RWD, hydraulic steering... Glorious.

    Post edited by Bubbtubbs on
  • rt_chargerrt_charger Ball Hitter Members Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
    edited Aug 12, 2019 12:29pm #1423

    @Bubbtubbs said:
    To be fair, how proof works is that the burden is on the claimant, so your assertion that it increases focus is what needs to be demonstrated.

    Simple - human psychology. When presented with something simple, easy, or not overly complicated, a person in general won't apply themseves to their full extent because it does not require all their thought to do so.

    When a golfer plays with shovels or larger than blade clubs, that is their normal - they don't worry as much about hitting strike dead center as there is a subconcious thought that an off center strike will be helped by their clubs.

    When that player puts down a blade, they notice how small it is, then bringing in concerns about hitting the face. They will then see off center strikes with a lot more drop off and less performance. This then will cause them to react and focus on their ball striking.

    This won't apply to all people, due to some not actually reacting, or some people without the awareness of their strike / swing to take the feedback and apply more focus.

    "Golf is a game that is played on a five-inch course - the distance between your ears." - Bobby Jones
  • rt_chargerrt_charger Ball Hitter Members Posts: 193 ✭✭✭

    @chippa13 said:

    @rt_charger said:

    @Bubbtubbs said:
    To be fair, how proof works is that the burden is on the claimant, so your assertion that it increases focus is what needs to be demonstrated.

    Simple - human psychology. When presented with something simple, easy, or not overly complicated, a person in general won't apply themseves to their full extent because it does not require all their thought to do so.

    When a golfer plays with shovels or larger than blade clubs, that is their normal - they don't worry as much about hitting strike dead center as there is a subconcious thought that an off center strike will be helped by their clubs.

    When that player puts down a blade, they notice how small it is, then bringing in concerns about hitting the face. They will then see off center strikes with a lot more drop off and less performance. This then will cause them to react and focus on their ball striking.

    This won't apply to all people, due to some not actually reacting, or some people without the awareness of their strike / swing to take the feedback and apply more focus.

    If I step up to a shot and am worried about where on the face I'm hitting the ball instead of where on the course I want the ball to go then I've already lost.

    Not the point

    "Golf is a game that is played on a five-inch course - the distance between your ears." - Bobby Jones
  • BubbtubbsBubbtubbs Members Posts: 476 ✭✭✭✭

    @rt_charger said:

    @Bubbtubbs said:
    To be fair, how proof works is that the burden is on the claimant, so your assertion that it increases focus is what needs to be demonstrated.

    Simple - human psychology. When presented with something simple, easy, or not overly complicated, a person in general won't apply themseves to their full extent because it does not require all their thought to do so.

    When a golfer plays with shovels or larger than blade clubs, that is their normal - they don't worry as much about hitting strike dead center as there is a subconcious thought that an off center strike will be helped by their clubs.

    When that player puts down a blade, they notice how small it is, then bringing in concerns about hitting the face. They will then see off center strikes with a lot more drop off and less performance. This then will cause them to react and focus on their ball striking.

    This won't apply to all people, due to some not actually reacting, or some people without the awareness of their strike / swing to take the feedback and apply more focus.

    I'm not saying you're wrong, just explaining that the whole "prove it doesn't" request is a non-starter, since you can't do it.

  • LowAndLeft32LowAndLeft32 Members Posts: 109 ✭✭✭

    My question is how many of the best ball strikers of all time have used GIs to hone their great swings? Hogan Snead Nicklaus Nelson TW Rory Adam Scott all used blades. Now to be fair most of those didn’t have a cavity backed option at the time. However, those old school players are still reference today as the best ball strikers of all time!

    But have any of today’s tour players build their games using GIs? Did they make it to the tour using shovels? My assumption is they started playing blades and players cavities and built a great repeatable swing. Some may have made the switch from blades to CB.

  • Nard_SNard_S Members Posts: 3,440 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    If you're a mid-cap, It's a head fake to focus too much or give to much credit/blame to what type of iron head you're playing. Golf is a balanced attack. Metals, irons & putter. Tee, approach & short games with the mental maturation for all of them. Shaft profile and spec setup is more important than dance of grams on the head. Get those correct, impact zone gets smaller and a lot more consistent.
    I switched out irons yesterday due to epoxy breakdown, I still hit 9 greens but entire round was off kilter and scoring was non-existent and for most part the shaft differential threw me off and kept me uncomfortable. I lost strokes from irons but also lost as much from metals and putter. I'm one who needs to be married to my gear, speed dating does't work period. Most any mid capper can get to high or even mid singles with a more holistic approach to the game and a sobriety that day in day out, your swing is not exactly the same, because your body has an innate variability to it. If you feel better and more comfortable with a CB head or a traditional MB, both are just fine so long as it's all kept in perspective and proportionate. The guys who go low singles and beyond have a lot more going on in the goodness of their swing. The gear is all over the spectrum but they all share good rhythm, balance and smooth transition. They all have solid P6 position and a mental maturation to get the job done even on days where they are not "feeling it". So I chase what they have shown me, I chase where shaft and mass pulls my swing because pull it does. I have real preferences in how I like my iron heads to be but it's way down on the list of priority to other things. Pardon me while I go fix my gamer's.

  • chippa13chippa13 Members Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Problem: "I've been struggling off the tee."
    Solution: "Get to the range and work on your woods, maybe take some lessons"
    Problem: "I'm wasting a lot of strokes on and around the green."
    Solution: "Spend more time on the practice green, do XXXXX drills to sharpen your putting."
    Problem: "My ball striking with irons isn't where it should be."
    Solution: "Buy blades, you clearly aren't focused enough with your current set."

  • ssfrannyssfranny Lefty Boomers Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Andus said:
    golfgirlrobin wrote:

    Play whatever you’d like, and have a great time with them, but understand that not buying into “the whole forgiveness thing” doesn’t change the fact that “the whole forgiveness thing” is real, because, you know, science.

    Sure, I'm not saying it's not a real thing to some extent, I just personally believe that it's exaggerated majorly by a lot of club makers & marketing... because, you know, profit. Sounds like you drank the kool aid.

    Theres a lot of people who play blades that probably shouldnt But due to the fact they think it looks cool or theyre delusional about their game. Ive played for about 30 now and been a lower handicap and never played blades until 6 years ago when got a set of MP68s. I was striking the ball really well that summer and prob played some of the best golf I ever played. Later that summer I got MP54s and still hit the blades better. However when my swing was off it really hurt my score. I get the feel allure of blades since more mass behind sweet spot they feel real solid when struck well. But if youre a 12 or above you really can get same feel with a more forgiving iron. Scoring all comes down to hitting greens and putting.

  • ssfrannyssfranny Lefty Boomers Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @BottleCap said:
    LUMA wrote:

    It's amazing how the game as well as the perception of the game has changed with the introduction of game improvement equipment, technology, and marketing...

    Sigh

    I agree.

    Every person i've seen that chases an equipment fix has fundamental flaws in their swing and instead of addressing it they blame equipment.

    Amen and one of best comments on this thread. It happens to all handicaps mostly with drivers and also irons buy the new stuff instead of fixing jacked up swing.

  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @mahonie said:

    @BiggErn said:

    @rt_charger said:

    @BiggErn said:

    @rt_charger said:

    @BiggErn said:
    Golf is hard. The idea that someone focuses more with one club versus another is beyond ridiculous.

    Lol. My god it’s not that complex and that’s total bs.
    And has nothing to do with what club is in your hands! 😂

    This just proves you're an idiot. Golf is entirely a mental game - name one other sport that has a repeated action like golf, done once every couple of minutes for a total of minimum 4 hours?

    It most certainly is that complex, you just need to have an understanding of human psychology to actually get it.

    It is 100% a fact that people in general will focus less on something that appears simple or easy (in comparison to something that's harder). You put a shovel in their hands and they'll swing it normally. You put a blade in their hands and you seriously think they won't react to it?

    Lol. More utter bs.

    If it's BS then disprove it lol.

    Disprove what? That some people with self proclaimed mental issues try and play a difficult game by making it more difficult? It’s absolutely absurd to think someone focuses or concentrates less or more with one club versus another. If you’ve been playing blades for over a year and still a double digit HC without hitting the sweet spot 99% of the time you already have disproved it. To say there’s no feedback on certain clubs is also absolutely ridiculous.

    So by playing CBs for 3 years with my handicap getting no better, then dropping 2 shots within 6 months of switching to MBs what does that prove?

    Doesn’t work that way for everyone, I get it...some people’s fine motor skills are different...I can’t understand why you don’t get it. What clubs are you using BiggErn? What’s your handicap? Perhaps that will give us all a clue ;-)

    I use P790s and my HC is at 6.

  • dpb5031dpb5031 Jupiter, FLMembers Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @BiggErn said:

    @mahonie said:

    @BiggErn said:

    @rt_charger said:

    @BiggErn said:

    @rt_charger said:

    @BiggErn said:
    Golf is hard. The idea that someone focuses more with one club versus another is beyond ridiculous.

    Lol. My god it’s not that complex and that’s total bs.
    And has nothing to do with what club is in your hands! 😂

    This just proves you're an idiot. Golf is entirely a mental game - name one other sport that has a repeated action like golf, done once every couple of minutes for a total of minimum 4 hours?

    It most certainly is that complex, you just need to have an understanding of human psychology to actually get it.

    It is 100% a fact that people in general will focus less on something that appears simple or easy (in comparison to something that's harder). You put a shovel in their hands and they'll swing it normally. You put a blade in their hands and you seriously think they won't react to it?

    Lol. More utter bs.

    If it's BS then disprove it lol.

    Disprove what? That some people with self proclaimed mental issues try and play a difficult game by making it more difficult? It’s absolutely absurd to think someone focuses or concentrates less or more with one club versus another. If you’ve been playing blades for over a year and still a double digit HC without hitting the sweet spot 99% of the time you already have disproved it. To say there’s no feedback on certain clubs is also absolutely ridiculous.

    So by playing CBs for 3 years with my handicap getting no better, then dropping 2 shots within 6 months of switching to MBs what does that prove?

    Doesn’t work that way for everyone, I get it...some people’s fine motor skills are different...I can’t understand why you don’t get it. What clubs are you using BiggErn? What’s your handicap? Perhaps that will give us all a clue ;-)

    I use P790s and my HC is at 6.

    Well Ern, at least they kinda look like blades to the unsuspecting...lol!

    USGA Index: ~1

    WITB:
    Ping G410 LST 9 degree - Tour AD IZ 6x
    Taylormade M2 Tour 15 Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73 
    Kasco K2K 33 - UST Axivcore 65 Tour Green 
    Callaway RazrX Tour 4h - Tour 95 shaft
    Ping i200 5-UW (2 flat) - Nippon Modus 105X
    Taylormade HiToe 54 (bent to 55 & 2 flat)
    Taylormade HiToe 64 (Bent to 62 & 2 flat)
    Palmer AP30R putter (circa 1960s)
    Taylormade TP5X Ball
  • zoned_post_meridiemzoned_post_meridiem Members Posts: 95 ✭✭✭

    @chippa13 said:
    Problem: "I've been struggling off the tee."
    Solution: "Get to the range and work on your woods, maybe take some lessons"
    Problem: "I'm wasting a lot of strokes on and around the green."
    Solution: "Spend more time on the practice green, do XXXXX drills to sharpen your putting."
    Problem: "My ball striking with irons isn't where it should be."
    Solution: "Buy blades, you clearly aren't focused enough with your current set."

    You understand that the first two conditions apply to everyone, but the last only to a very small number of people, right?
    [It's a fallacy of composition, if you're interested in that kind of stuff.]

  • ssfrannyssfranny Lefty Boomers Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Andus said:
    pinestreetgolf wrote:


    Andus wrote:

    by telling me it's not my short game, but rather my iron game when you've never even seen me swing a club. Think about that. I don't care if you have 20 posts on this forum or 10,000, if that's the way you act, I couldn't care less about your opinion.

    What if I told you 2+2=5? YOU'VE NEVER SEEN ME USE A CALCULATOR!! YOU DON'T KNOW!

    I'm telling you that it is borderline impossible for someone to be a 15.4 handicap hitting six greens because of his short game unless you have one of the worst short games of all time anyone has ever seen. You must be duffing at least a third of your short game shots. Its probably not even possible unless you hit at least one short game shot into the water or OB. Its just math dude. Sorry, what you're saying is nonsensical. If you had said "I'm a weaker player, 15 cap, love blades" I wouldn't have posted. But to say you have a "good" long game as a 15?! C'mon now. C'mon.

    I don't think you're lying. I think you've somehow managed to convince yourself of it because its more noble / manly to have a monster long game and be weak around the green. But your math doesn't work.

    Walk us through a typical round where you add almost 19 strokes around the twelve green complex you miss.

    Key Point: you are a 15 that hits six greens. Which means six of the holes you are a scratch golfer (<- i don't think you get how this works). Which means you 15.4 cap is coming from only the remaining twelve, which means you have to play those in 20.4 over par due to your short game. No freaking way my friend. And since pros and scratches three putt sometimes too, subtract their three putt rate from your don't just use yours.

    And this isn't an attack on you, its designed to help you.

    if you hook a ball twenty yards left leaving a difficult chip that has to run up a green mound, pop over, and stop after 8 feet, that is an iron mistake, no matter how badly you hit it with a wedge. The idea that you're elite ball striking is setting you up around the greens well and you're just blading chips into the water from decent lies consistently is hard to believe.

    Not sure if you've read my above posts or not, but this will be the last time I ever give you a reply or put any attention towards any of your posts. My GIR estimate was an ESTIMATE. I've never counted. I could only hit 3 GIR on average a round. Idk how many different ways I can say it. Hopefully it makes you feel better to come into threads and try to constantly debunk other people's golf claims on a forum. Battle on, keyboard warrior.

    @Andus said:
    pinestreetgolf wrote:


    Andus wrote:

    by telling me it's not my short game, but rather my iron game when you've never even seen me swing a club. Think about that. I don't care if you have 20 posts on this forum or 10,000, if that's the way you act, I couldn't care less about your opinion.

    What if I told you 2+2=5? YOU'VE NEVER SEEN ME USE A CALCULATOR!! YOU DON'T KNOW!

    I'm telling you that it is borderline impossible for someone to be a 15.4 handicap hitting six greens because of his short game unless you have one of the worst short games of all time anyone has ever seen. You must be duffing at least a third of your short game shots. Its probably not even possible unless you hit at least one short game shot into the water or OB. Its just math dude. Sorry, what you're saying is nonsensical. If you had said "I'm a weaker player, 15 cap, love blades" I wouldn't have posted. But to say you have a "good" long game as a 15?! C'mon now. C'mon.

    I don't think you're lying. I think you've somehow managed to convince yourself of it because its more noble / manly to have a monster long game and be weak around the green. But your math doesn't work.

    Walk us through a typical round where you add almost 19 strokes around the twelve green complex you miss.

    Key Point: you are a 15 that hits six greens. Which means six of the holes you are a scratch golfer (<- i don't think you get how this works). Which means you 15.4 cap is coming from only the remaining twelve, which means you have to play those in 20.4 over par due to your short game. No freaking way my friend. And since pros and scratches three putt sometimes too, subtract their three putt rate from your don't just use yours.

    And this isn't an attack on you, its designed to help you.

    if you hook a ball twenty yards left leaving a difficult chip that has to run up a green mound, pop over, and stop after 8 feet, that is an iron mistake, no matter how badly you hit it with a wedge. The idea that you're elite ball striking is setting you up around the greens well and you're just blading chips into the water from decent lies consistently is hard to believe.

    Not sure if you've read my above posts or not, but this will be the last time I ever give you a reply or put any attention towards any of your posts. My GIR estimate was an ESTIMATE. I've never counted. I could only hit 3 GIR on average a round. Idk how many different ways I can say it. Hopefully it makes you feel better to come into threads and try to constantly debunk other people's golf claims on a forum. Battle on, keyboard warrior.

    I think its funny OP comes in here and says hes a 15.4 and how he LOVES blades and doesnt really know how many GIR he hits then when people call him out he gets defensive. Its like he admitting he knows hes bad but loves blades because they make him feel like a real player. If anyone is above a 12 and plays blades they will struggle with GIR so better have a solid short game/putting to compensate.

    Im a low handi and the main reason I dont play blades is not the unforgiving nature of them its more that as I’ve gotten older I lost distance with driver. so where I was hitting more short irons into green its now mid to long irons on longer courses. And I need the best club to get me on the green or close to it and a blades is NOT it.

  • ssfrannyssfranny Lefty Boomers Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @BiggErn said:
    beautytherot wrote:

    to me, blades are the ultimate gi irons. you get all the feedback you need on bad swings, and that will require you to practice to make better swing, wheres as the real gi clubs just band aid a bad swing.. imho

    There are people that play golf their entire life and never break 90. Practice doesn’t mean you will get better. The simple fact is some people will just never be good at certain things no matter what. That said, everything you just said can be accomplished with any club. Plenty of scratch or better players that play GI clubs that aren’t putting a “bandaid” on anything but rather using equipment that is less penal on less than perfect contact.

    I know someone in my family like this my uncle. Smart guy always made lot of money but him like his kids who play not a lick of athleticism or hand eye coordination. My uncle has played about as long as me and prob spent $50-60,000 over years buying equipment. Maybe only had 1-2 lessons in his life. Always takes mulligans and if misses a shot or putts theres always an excuse. It got to the point where I cant really play with him anymore when he continually cheats. But proves your point there are a lot of golfers regardless of money or time just will not be that good at golf. Just a fact.

  • chisagchisag Members Posts: 3,018 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @rt_charger said:

    @Bubbtubbs said:
    To be fair, how proof works is that the burden is on the claimant, so your assertion that it increases focus is what needs to be demonstrated.

    Simple - human psychology. _**When presented with something simple, easy, or not overly complicated, a person in general won't apply themseves to their full extent because it does not require all their thought to do so.

    When a golfer plays with shovels or larger than blade clubs, that is their normal - they don't worry as much about hitting strike dead center as there is a subconcious thought that an off center strike will be helped by their clubs.**_

    When that player puts down a blade, they notice how small it is, then bringing in concerns about hitting the face. They will then see off center strikes with a lot more drop off and less performance. This then will cause them to react and focus on their ball striking.

    ... I taught full time for 5 years and golfers always fell into one of two categories. Those that were serious and those that weren't. When I played football in college, I was amazed at some athletes that slacked off with some of the exercises or drills. They were certainly not the norm, but they were out there. So I get your point, but it does not apply to serious players. You think the players on the PGA and especially the LPGA don't concentrate on their ball striking because they are using GI's and even SGI's? It is not the mark of an athlete to "not apply themselves to the full extent" when faced with an easier challenge. Khalil Mack plays just as hard at practice as he does in the games.

    ... A serious golfer will give the same effort and concentration whether using the smallest MB or the largest SGI. You are taking about undisciplined and mentally weak golfers if you concentrate more with harder to hit equipment.

    Cobra F9 Tour Length ... Tensei Orange 65s
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  • JStangJStang Members Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Today @ 7:25pm #1438

    One thing that I can almost guarantee you about blades, is that they are not going to fly farther than expected in controllable situations. That said, on the majority of courses I play, there is trouble long of the green and the greens slope from back to front. To a back or middle pin, I would rather come up 10 yards short due to a mishit blade opposed to flying it long of the pin and having a tough, short sided downhill chip. Usually, anything below the pin is good where a lot of times, you have to go into defense mode with 30 foot downhill putts.

    I'm a huge fan of the combo set idea. Blades in the scoring clubs and a players cavity in the mid / long irons. At the courses and length I typically play, I rarely have anything more than an 8 iron into a Par 4. Play controllable scoring clubs based on your scoring opportunities. I'm currently an 8 handicap and stay around the center of the face. My misses are usually the result of face to path issues more than strike. The last time I was on Trackman my path was around 10 degrees in to out so I hit some pretty nasty right to left shots which leads to a lot of missed greens. I am working on getting that in the 3-4 range and I'm confident that if I do, I can get down to a 4-5 fairy quickly. As an 8 handicap, I feel like I strike it close to a low single capper but path issues add a lot of shots to my game.

    Post edited by JStang at
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  • revanantrevanant Members Posts: 295 ✭✭✭✭

    @balls_deep said:

    @revanant said:
    So, anecdotally, having my MP-4s in the bag this summer has been good for my game. They work well as a confidence-builder, and they also help me take my time in setting up before a shot and being a little more meticulous, such that I tend to strike the ball well.

    On the range, they help me work out kinks because of the difference between a good vs bad strike, so that I wind up grooving a good swing.

    It’s to the point that I’m not worried about my irons at all. I can leave them in the bag and not revisit the issue. My testing is all over this thread.

    My handicap will drop over time with more experience. I still regularly 3-putt from 20 feet. I had a round the other day where I shot 97 with 44 putts. I missed some short ones, and I didn’t lag some longer ones well. I also saved par on that round on a par 5 after hitting a ball into the water and having 120 yards to the flag out of the rough, but having my 8 iron put the ball within 3 feet for a tap-in par save (with 4 strokes and a penalty : ( ). My weaknesses are putting, a few flubbed chips (30 yard chip + hesitant contact—>10 foot chip and a second try), and to a lesser degree, length off the tee (90 mph swing speed). All of this will improve in time, so I’ve stopped worrying about my irons and I just go out and have fun + work to improve on the course.

    Agreed regarding the above - probably matters most for those of us who are mid to high singles and trying to shoot par for the first time.

    To the above @revanant , I get that you want to play blades and more power to you, I just don’t think the argument that it makes you focus on alignment holds up - you should be doing that with Ping G shovels too. Same thing with the feedback on the range. It’s a ridiculous argument made on here all the time and perpetuated constantly. You can feel miss hits with almost any iron provided you’re paying any attention. Blades do not improve your swing. Studying the swing, practicing the swing, and getting lessons are what improves ball striking. I’ve been consistent in saying I believe you get get all of the benefits of blades with a touch of help in a players CB such as Titleist CB, 7x5, Apex Pro/X Forged, 919T/F etc. All the same except that strike a couple of MM in the toe hits the green instead of the bunker. That saves strokes. I do think that playing wide soles SGI irons teaches a shallow AoA and prevents players from learning how to trap the ball and get spin/height.

    So, this is an old thread. It's always been a bit of a weird thread, because there have been three different arguments running through the thread.
    Argument 1: A mid-high or high handicap can get some benefit from playing blades (OP's argument, and one that I agree with)
    Argument 2: Nobody should play blades ( @BiggErn )
    Argument 3: A cavity back or perimeter weighted iron will improve performance on the course, and there are some irons with a player's look, so why not take the help? ( Your point)

    To me, Argument 1 and Argument 3 can both be true. Blades can be helpful for some mid-high handicaps, and player's CBs can be great irons. I don't think the two ideas aren't mutually exclusive. : )

    There are iron setups out there that might give me a little more ballspeed and descent angle on good strikes, and retain a little more ballspeed on mishits than my current setup. If I want to min/max my bag and post the best score possible, I should play the iron that gives me the best performance in my hands. If I could push a button and spit out the perfect iron for me, in whatever shape/color/design it comes in, I'd play it.

    However, as a high handicap who is improving, I find there's a lot of benefit to playing with my MP-4s. We've gone through the various reasons. As a quick summation, most of the benefits fall under the category of mental confidence and good swing habits.

    Because blades don't forgive mishits, they promote good habits. If I get a thin strike on a ball, it's extremely obvious. I feel it strongly. I see it clearly. And the message is very clear--"that was failed contact, don't do that again, back off the ball and take immediate stock of your setup/grip/swing, and try again!" I find that type of feedback very helpful. I find it helpful in practice. It keeps me from just "playing golf swing" and forces me to consciously slow down and be careful about my technique.

    Because I view all of my rounds as additional practice, I find it just as helpful on the course. It's good to know when I mess up. I don't care about dropping my handicap. I care about building good habits and mental confidence. Ffor where I am right now, I would rather take my mishits and learn valuable lessons when they happen--even if it means carding a bogey and getting some chipping or sand practice. And happily, having my MP-4s in the bag this summer has been a good experience. I'm not clunking the ball around and shooting 120. Generally, I strike the ball well with my current irons, so they are excellent at promoting confidence and improving my bank of experience. I'm not afraid of pulling my 5 iron to clear a water carry to a green, because I've done it before. I can stand over my 7 iron confidently hitting out of sand, because I've done it before. And I've done it without any sort of safety net. Since the stakes could not be lower during my rounds, I see no reason not to play with irons that force me to take care in my setup and swing, and which I know accurately reflect the strike I put on the ball and give me a good mental note if I screw up.

    However, my general position is that there are lots of great irons out there, be they CB or MB, and you probably can get similar benefits with other irons. A blade can promote good habits, and so can a player's cb.

    To the extent a more forgiving iron like the p790 will give me more ballspeed, better spin, better descent, and quieter feedback on the same thin strike, I can see how I might start to groove bad habits--because the slap on the hand isn't as severe, and because the results of a mistake aren't as predictable, so I don't take as much care in my practice (because I'm human). This is what I did actually see with my AP1s--my ballstriking took a big leap forward when I put the T-Zoid Pro (not a blade, but a great iron) and the MP-4 into my rotation, and it happened quickly. My practice was just more productive, and I saw rapid improvement.

    To this end, it's why I put up my AP1 results against my MP-4s, and why I'm sitting on a set of 716 CBs with graphite shafts. The 716 CBs on paper, are a great iron for me--I love the look and head size, and they have a decently high MOI and a good, light shaft. I also think they feel great. If they gave me more ballspeed and descent angle while retaining the spin of my blades, I'd happily put them in the bag and see if I play better golf.

    In practice, however, they're awful for me, because they are set up according to factory stock specs, and they are about 1.5 degrees more upright than my MP-4s. They also have a higher VCOG than my MP-4s (which for me I find tends to correlate with better performance in my hands and relates well to performance on vertical misses), so even my better strikes launch a little lower than my MP-4s. The result is that I'm sitting on my 716 CBs until probably late September, when the new MP-20s launch. At that point, I'll go in for a lie adjustment and iron fitting and compare my current irons against the new crop of tech, and adjust accordingly--be it a reshaft on my MP-4s, better success with my 716 CBs, or a new iron set to keep an eye out for on the used market. If there's an iron out there that feels great, looks great, and performs great, I'll happily put it in the bag. So far, my MP-4s have filled that position admirably, but I'll willingly entertain challengers.

    Practically, I've found the most important quality in an iron for me is the vertical center of gravity. Lower VCOG tends to lead to better results in my hands. My MP-4s have a relatively low VCOG, and I hit them well. I have a spare MP-14 6 iron that I picked up for $10--I hit that well, too. The JPX 900 Tour has a high center of gravity--I don't find it to be a good fit. I recently hit the P790 on a whim--lower VCOG, good results.

    However, none of the above changes the fact that I learn a lot of on-course lessons by having my MP-4s in the bag, and I build a lot of mental confidence by landing good shots with them in real world conditions. This is why I think there can be a lot of value for having a mid or high handicapper toss a set of used blades into the bag as a learning tool. If it works, it can be a really good and helpful tool. If not, return or flip them.

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    Ping Redwood D66

  • chippa13chippa13 Members Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    The assertion that GI clubs don't provide feedback is false. When I miss the sweet spot on my Rocketbladez I can both feel it and see it in the results. They just penalize me less at times.
    Play whatever you want, be it blades or GI. But don't try to sell it on the focus and feedback malarkey.

  • ssfrannyssfranny Lefty Boomers Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Andus said:
    balls_deep wrote:


    gibbyfan wrote:

    There are so many variables to this thread that it is laughable. First, I am sure there are a tremendous amount of members here that are absolutely amazing ball stickers. Then there is a camp of people that feel that club choice should be based off of handicap. That is a terrible stereotype. Second, a 3 at one course or club is not the same at another. Duh! Just because he is a mid-handicap should have no baring. He may play at a really difficult track.

    Also, since you are on Wrx you are fully aware that certain spec/grinds benefit other players better than some. I know that first hand. I went to the Apex pro last year and could not control the distance gaps. I went back to more of a traditional players cavity this season( and in limited time playing) I am seeing the ability to control flight and distance again. Something that was lacking all last year. I am not sure if I have the All around game to play them, but signs are showing promise. To the OP, thank you for sharing your experience. It is a reminder to all that this is a game and games should be fun. If your fun is the struggle to hit quality shots, then so be it. If others version of fun is to shoot the lowest scores then get fit and get after it. Don't begrudge another because they wanted to try something different and brings him joy.

    The whole point of the HC rating system course rating/slope is so that your scoring relative to the course is taken into consideration - what are you evening trying to say? Of course some clubs are going to feel more comfortable than others - golf is about feels and comfortability with your clubs. If OP likes his clubs then great. No chance miss hitting an MP18 is helping him more than if he was miss hitting a 919 Forged or something else Mizuno makes. I guarantee you he would score better with a cavity. Guarantee.

    If you read through the replies, I was gaming JPX 900 HM prior to these, and my handicap has gone down. Guarantee.

    Haha OK and I hit my dads old persimmon driver farther than my Epic Flash...

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