My Experience Gaming Blades as a Mid-High Handicapper

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Comments

  • mahoniemahonie EnglandMembers Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @BiggErn said:

    @mahonie said:

    @BiggErn said:

    @rt_charger said:

    @BiggErn said:

    @rt_charger said:

    @BiggErn said:
    Golf is hard. The idea that someone focuses more with one club versus another is beyond ridiculous.

    Lol. My god it’s not that complex and that’s total bs.
    And has nothing to do with what club is in your hands! 😂

    This just proves you're an idiot. Golf is entirely a mental game - name one other sport that has a repeated action like golf, done once every couple of minutes for a total of minimum 4 hours?

    It most certainly is that complex, you just need to have an understanding of human psychology to actually get it.

    It is 100% a fact that people in general will focus less on something that appears simple or easy (in comparison to something that's harder). You put a shovel in their hands and they'll swing it normally. You put a blade in their hands and you seriously think they won't react to it?

    Lol. More utter bs.

    If it's BS then disprove it lol.

    Disprove what? That some people with self proclaimed mental issues try and play a difficult game by making it more difficult? It’s absolutely absurd to think someone focuses or concentrates less or more with one club versus another. If you’ve been playing blades for over a year and still a double digit HC without hitting the sweet spot 99% of the time you already have disproved it. To say there’s no feedback on certain clubs is also absolutely ridiculous.

    So by playing CBs for 3 years with my handicap getting no better, then dropping 2 shots within 6 months of switching to MBs what does that prove?

    Doesn’t work that way for everyone, I get it...some people’s fine motor skills are different...I can’t understand why you don’t get it. What clubs are you using BiggErn? What’s your handicap? Perhaps that will give us all a clue ;-)

    I use P790s and my HC is at 6.

    Thanks for sharing with the group. I do get your viewpoint...lots of great reports/reviews of the P790 and TMs best selling club. @chisag swore by them for a while until he switched to P760s. I’m sure for many people, they couldn’t get a better club and improve on their scoring.

    However, for me, when I address the ball with P790s, and J40 DPCs for that matter and other clubs of that ilk, the club head appears to dwarf the ball. I never feel comfortable squaring that club face to path which gives me no confidence and adversely affects my strike. I end up fighting my swing just to get a decent strike on it and there’s no point in that folly, for me.

    Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
    MD Golf Superstrong 3-wood UST Proforce 65 Stiff
    Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
    Mizuno MP4 4-PW DG S300
    Wilson Staff PMP wedges 50/54/58 KBS Hi-Rev 2.0
    Radius Classic 8
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 13, 2019 4:18am #1443

    @chippa13 said:
    Problem: "I've been struggling off the tee."
    Solution: "Get to the range and work on your woods, maybe take some lessons"
    Problem: "I'm wasting a lot of strokes on and around the green."
    Solution: "Spend more time on the practice green, do XXXXX drills to sharpen your putting."
    Problem: "My ball striking with irons isn't where it should be."
    Solution: "Buy blades, you clearly aren't focused enough with your current set."

    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
  • GolfjackGolfjack All about the rotation Members Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    So here's the real question... how many strokes do you gain by playing GI clubs vs blades and/or vice versa? I don't think (might have missed it) people have tried to quantify this rather just use their common sense. **** has used a similar approach when evaluating similar clubs. Would be interesting to see it used across a spectrum just for demonstration purposes.

    TM M4 Driver 10.5
    TM M4 3 wood 16
    4H (22) Aeroburner TP
    Mizuno MP-15 4, 5 iron, Project X LZ 6.5
    Mizuno MP-5 6-PW, Project X LZ 6.5
    Wedges Mizuno T7 50, 56, 60
    Honma HP 1002

    Alternate set:
    Callaway Epic Sub Zero 9.5, Nike VR Pro 4-PW DG x100, Titleist AP2 712 DG x100 4-P, Callaway Jaws X Series CC Wedges 52 56 60, , Odyssey Arm Lock Putter, Gauge Design Eldik Putter with Superstroke Fatso 5
  • balls_deepballs_deep Members Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Golfjack said:
    So here's the real question... how many strokes do you gain by playing GI clubs vs blades and/or vice versa? I don't think (might have missed it) people have tried to quantify this rather just use their common sense. **** has used a similar approach when evaluating similar clubs. Would be interesting to see it used across a spectrum just for demonstration purposes.

    It would be a tough experiment to do with any kind of accuracy. Some days we feel like we're swinging it well and others we're just try to get around. Not to mention what set are you playing? The drop-offs in forgiveness magnify as you go up the bag to long irons. Only playing blades in 9 or 8-PW? Next to no difference. Playing them all the way to 2 or 3 iron? Massive difference to something with help. Strokes gained .. how many extra strokes is a mid capper losing to a tour pro or scratch by using blades? It probably makes a difference - again hard to test.

    Even this test seems very borderline in terms of validity. Starts @ 8 min. They try to quantify drop-offs in ball speed.

    Cobra F9 Speedback HZRDUS HC Black 62g
    Titleist 917F2 15.75°  HZRDUS HC Black 75g
    Titleist 816H1 20° Accra FX200H M4
    Titleist 718 T-MB 4i Project X LZ 6.0
    Titleist 716 CB 5i-PW Project X LZ 6.0
    Vokey 52f 56f 60d Project X LZ 6.0
    Scotty Cameron Studio Stainless Newport 2 350g 34.5"
    Pro V1

    Currently - 6.9


  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers Posts: 3,521 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 13, 2019 12:21pm #1446

    I think it's mostly about feel and I think that feel is a massive distraction for most amateurs.

    My buddy is thinking about moving from small CBs over to a full-blown blade and I told him, 'you probably won't see a difference in scoring but you're going to feel more on every shot both good and bad.'

    I can see why somebody might be tickled by the feel of a blade here and there but on the whole, I think someone wanting to score optimally would prefer the dullest feeling club possible with which they could still get the necessary feedback.

    Based on my experience, it's not a good thing when your 6-iron flashes a red alert in your hands simply because you struck it a quarter-inch out on the toe. A CB simply hands you a memo without acting like the shot was a complete meltdown. :)

    Not surprisingly, my buddy who's played small CBs for years and been a low single-digit doing so is telling me he's considering the blades more or less '...because they look cool.'

    It's all about looks. Always has been. Don't forget that.

    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.5) w. Tensei Pro Orange
    Fairway: Titleist 915 F (18) w. Diamana Blueboard
    Hybrid: Tour Edge Exotics E8 (19)
    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (4-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Select
  • BubbtubbsBubbtubbs Members Posts: 476 ✭✭✭✭

    @MelloYello said:
    I think it's mostly about feel and I think that feel is a massive distraction for most amateurs.

    My buddy is thinking about moving from small CBs over to a full-blown blade and I told him, 'you probably won't see a difference in scoring but you're going to feel more on every shot both good and bad.'

    I can see why somebody might be tickled by the feel of a blade here and there but on the whole, I think someone wanting to score optimally would prefer the dullest feeling club possible with which they could still get the necessary feedback.

    Based on my experience, it's not a good thing when your 6-iron flashes a red alert in your hands simply because you struck it a quarter-inch out on the toe. A CB simply hands you a memo without acting like the shot was a complete meltdown. :)

    Not surprisingly, my buddy who's played small CBs for years and been a low single-digit doing so is telling me he's considering the blades more or less '...because they look cool.'

    It's all about looks. Always has been. Don't forget that.

    I'm currently gaming '94 Hogan blades right down to 3i and I haven't had a single shot that "flashes a red alert". The club twists a bit more and you can definitely feel thin shots, but not in a painful way.

  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers Posts: 3,521 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 13, 2019 12:41pm #1448

    @Bubbtubbs said:

    @MelloYello said:
    I think it's mostly about feel and I think that feel is a massive distraction for most amateurs.

    My buddy is thinking about moving from small CBs over to a full-blown blade and I told him, 'you probably won't see a difference in scoring but you're going to feel more on every shot both good and bad.'

    I can see why somebody might be tickled by the feel of a blade here and there but on the whole, I think someone wanting to score optimally would prefer the dullest feeling club possible with which they could still get the necessary feedback.

    Based on my experience, it's not a good thing when your 6-iron flashes a red alert in your hands simply because you struck it a quarter-inch out on the toe. A CB simply hands you a memo without acting like the shot was a complete meltdown. :)

    Not surprisingly, my buddy who's played small CBs for years and been a low single-digit doing so is telling me he's considering the blades more or less '...because they look cool.'

    It's all about looks. Always has been. Don't forget that.

    I'm currently gaming '94 Hogan blades right down to 3i and I haven't had a single shot that "flashes a red alert". The club twists a bit more and you can definitely feel thin shots, but not in a painful way.

    I didn't say painful. Don't misconstrue the point.

    If you play blades you know precisely the kind of feedback they provide. Amateurs do not need that level of feedback to play decent golf and in general (or at least with me) it tends to over-inflate the significance of misses to the point that amateurs are not happy with shots that are in all actuality perfectly sufficient and well within the bounds of acceptability.

    When I say "red alert" I mean it's distracting, not that it's going to drop you to your knees in pain. It has nothing to do with pain.

    I'll say up front I have no tolerance for those who believe golf is about perfect shots or anyone trying to sell golf as anything less than trying to finish the round in as few strokes as possible whether that's beating a 90 with an 89 or something far more impressive.

    Advice to amateurs should be towards helping them enjoy the game more and ideally accomplishing that with respect to one having more control of their game than they might. Blades do not give the average player more control over their game. In my experience they will not make things more predictable. Quite the opposite in fact. And I'm really not interested in arguments based on theoretical whimsy. If it's not good for the average player, then why are we talking about it, right?

    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.5) w. Tensei Pro Orange
    Fairway: Titleist 915 F (18) w. Diamana Blueboard
    Hybrid: Tour Edge Exotics E8 (19)
    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (4-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Select
  • balls_deepballs_deep Members Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bubbtubbs said:

    @MelloYello said:
    I think it's mostly about feel and I think that feel is a massive distraction for most amateurs.

    My buddy is thinking about moving from small CBs over to a full-blown blade and I told him, 'you probably won't see a difference in scoring but you're going to feel more on every shot both good and bad.'

    I can see why somebody might be tickled by the feel of a blade here and there but on the whole, I think someone wanting to score optimally would prefer the dullest feeling club possible with which they could still get the necessary feedback.

    Based on my experience, it's not a good thing when your 6-iron flashes a red alert in your hands simply because you struck it a quarter-inch out on the toe. A CB simply hands you a memo without acting like the shot was a complete meltdown. :)

    Not surprisingly, my buddy who's played small CBs for years and been a low single-digit doing so is telling me he's considering the blades more or less '...because they look cool.'

    It's all about looks. Always has been. Don't forget that.

    I'm currently gaming '94 Hogan blades right down to 3i and I haven't had a single shot that "flashes a red alert". The club twists a bit more and you can definitely feel thin shots, but not in a painful way.

    Re: face opening and MOI etc. The first hole on the track I play up at my cottage is a shortish par 4 dog left with a pond on the corner. Basically makes it impossible to hit anything but iron off the tee as there is OB right and a 30 yard wide fairway between pond on left and trees/OB right. The water is also 220 out and doesn't end until 300 so virtually impossible to succeed with driver. I hit 5 iron off the tee with a bit of wind behind but with the blade and a slight miss hit (first swing of the day with no warm up) I go the distance I needed but I felt the face open a touch. This lead to the ball being under a tree and a restricted swing for me. That same swing with my other players CBs I have/now use goes straight and leaves me on the fairway. That isn't imagination it's a fact and THAT is a difference in hitting a green or not.

    Cobra F9 Speedback HZRDUS HC Black 62g
    Titleist 917F2 15.75°  HZRDUS HC Black 75g
    Titleist 816H1 20° Accra FX200H M4
    Titleist 718 T-MB 4i Project X LZ 6.0
    Titleist 716 CB 5i-PW Project X LZ 6.0
    Vokey 52f 56f 60d Project X LZ 6.0
    Scotty Cameron Studio Stainless Newport 2 350g 34.5"
    Pro V1

    Currently - 6.9


  • BubbtubbsBubbtubbs Members Posts: 476 ✭✭✭✭

    @MelloYello said:

    @Bubbtubbs said:

    @MelloYello said:
    I think it's mostly about feel and I think that feel is a massive distraction for most amateurs.

    My buddy is thinking about moving from small CBs over to a full-blown blade and I told him, 'you probably won't see a difference in scoring but you're going to feel more on every shot both good and bad.'

    I can see why somebody might be tickled by the feel of a blade here and there but on the whole, I think someone wanting to score optimally would prefer the dullest feeling club possible with which they could still get the necessary feedback.

    Based on my experience, it's not a good thing when your 6-iron flashes a red alert in your hands simply because you struck it a quarter-inch out on the toe. A CB simply hands you a memo without acting like the shot was a complete meltdown. :)

    Not surprisingly, my buddy who's played small CBs for years and been a low single-digit doing so is telling me he's considering the blades more or less '...because they look cool.'

    It's all about looks. Always has been. Don't forget that.

    I'm currently gaming '94 Hogan blades right down to 3i and I haven't had a single shot that "flashes a red alert". The club twists a bit more and you can definitely feel thin shots, but not in a painful way.

    I didn't say painful. Don't misconstrue the point.

    If you play blades you know precisely the kind of feedback they provide. Amateurs do not need that level of feedback to play decent golf and in general (or at least with me) it tends to over-inflate the significance of misses to the point that amateurs are not happy with shots that are in all actuality perfectly sufficient and well within the bounds of acceptability.

    When I say "red alert" I mean it's distracting, not that it's going to drop you to your knees in pain. It has nothing to do with pain.

    I'll say up front I have no tolerance for those who believe golf is about perfect shots or anyone trying to sell golf as anything less than trying to finish the round in as few strokes as possible whether that's beating a 90 with an 89 or something far more impressive.

    Advice to amateurs should be towards helping them enjoy the game more and ideally accomplishing that with respect to one having more control of their game than they might. Blades do not give the average player more control over their game. In my experience they will not make things more predictable. Quite the opposite in fact. And I'm really not interested in arguments based on theoretical whimsy. If it's not good for the average player, then why are we talking about it, right?

    But tell us how you really feel.

  • neillmacparguyneillmacparguy Members Posts: 77 ✭✭✭
    edited Aug 13, 2019 3:38pm #1451

    Played Titleist and Mizuno blades for years because I like the look and feel of a well hit shot with a forged club. Recently hit a playing partners GI 4 iron and crushed it effortlessly. A week later I’m getting fitting and left Golf Town with TM M4s. (They were 50% off the original MSRP). All I can say is man what was I waiting for all these years. My scores have dropped and my consistency and Greens in Regulation has improved substantially since hanging up the blades.

    I agree they (blades) feel AMAZING when you find the sweet spot but I GUARANTEE that the outcome of a toe shot with a GI iron still comes out better than the blade.

    Let’s not even mention ease of swing and distance gains. (Yea, the new lofts...I got it but ****)

    Good luck with your blades OP. I too love them but have recently decided lower scores and consistency are more important to me.

    Neill A. MacLeod III
    Greenwood, NS
    Callaway Epic 9 deg
    Callaway Epic Flash 15 deg
    Adams Black Super Hybrid 15deg
    Miura CB-501 irons
    Scotty Cameron Fastback 34”

  • revanantrevanant Members Posts: 295 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 13, 2019 4:57pm #1452

    @balls_deep said:

    @Bubbtubbs said:

    @MelloYello said:
    I think it's mostly about feel and I think that feel is a massive distraction for most amateurs.

    My buddy is thinking about moving from small CBs over to a full-blown blade and I told him, 'you probably won't see a difference in scoring but you're going to feel more on every shot both good and bad.'

    I can see why somebody might be tickled by the feel of a blade here and there but on the whole, I think someone wanting to score optimally would prefer the dullest feeling club possible with which they could still get the necessary feedback.

    Based on my experience, it's not a good thing when your 6-iron flashes a red alert in your hands simply because you struck it a quarter-inch out on the toe. A CB simply hands you a memo without acting like the shot was a complete meltdown. :)

    Not surprisingly, my buddy who's played small CBs for years and been a low single-digit doing so is telling me he's considering the blades more or less '...because they look cool.'

    It's all about looks. Always has been. Don't forget that.

    I'm currently gaming '94 Hogan blades right down to 3i and I haven't had a single shot that "flashes a red alert". The club twists a bit more and you can definitely feel thin shots, but not in a painful way.

    Re: face opening and MOI etc. The first hole on the track I play up at my cottage is a shortish par 4 dog left with a pond on the corner. Basically makes it impossible to hit anything but iron off the tee as there is OB right and a 30 yard wide fairway between pond on left and trees/OB right. The water is also 220 out and doesn't end until 300 so virtually impossible to succeed with driver. I hit 5 iron off the tee with a bit of wind behind but with the blade and a slight miss hit (first swing of the day with no warm up) I go the distance I needed but I felt the face open a touch. This lead to the ball being under a tree and a restricted swing for me. That same swing with my other players CBs I have/now use goes straight and leaves me on the fairway. That isn't imagination it's a fact and THAT is a difference in hitting a green or not.

    So, I guess the difference is that I'm actually ok with putting the ball behind a tree occasionally, because it shows me that I made a mistake that needs to be cleaned up. For me, at this point in my growth, the best thing I can get from a round is a lesson that I can take with me down the road.

    I'm not worried about the scores I shot last month--I'm much more interested in making sure I build good habits so that I'm a better golfer in a few years. To the extent my irons give me exactly what I put into them, I like them as a learning tool. And what I have found practically is that I have a lot of small and big successes during rounds, and I can look back and measure my improvement with full knowledge that there's no static in the line.


    I'm also not at the point where I can look at my iron play and be angry over a single lost stroke. The thing that deserves my serious attention is my putting, so that's what I've been focusing on.

    I got to go to the Northern Trust this weekend. The thing that seriously stood out to me, by seeing great players up close, is just the fact that everyone is an excellent lag putter. You see it on TV all the time, but seeing the actual distances and performances (and not just seeing featured groups) in person puts it into a different perspective.

    One thing that was really memorable was watching Justin Rose on hole #16 on Sunday. It was a driveable par 4, but he put his drive onto the #17 tee box. He then hit a 40-yard pitch that left him 24 feet to the hole. He made the putt for birdie.

    If I'm in that spot with a 40-yard pitch, there's a decent chance I lose a stroke on the pitch and a very high chance that I will 3-putt from 24 feet. That's where I can start to really shave strokes. Compared to that, my irons are pretty irrelevant.

    Cobra King LTD
    Cobra F8 3W
    Cobra F6 Baffler 5W
    Mizuno MP-4 w/ Project X 6.0
    Titleist Vokey SM5 54-10 M
    Mizuno JPX 58-14
    Ping Redwood D66

  • bodhi555bodhi555 Members Posts: 834 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MelloYello said:

    @Bubbtubbs said:

    @MelloYello said:
    I think it's mostly about feel and I think that feel is a massive distraction for most amateurs.

    My buddy is thinking about moving from small CBs over to a full-blown blade and I told him, 'you probably won't see a difference in scoring but you're going to feel more on every shot both good and bad.'

    I can see why somebody might be tickled by the feel of a blade here and there but on the whole, I think someone wanting to score optimally would prefer the dullest feeling club possible with which they could still get the necessary feedback.

    Based on my experience, it's not a good thing when your 6-iron flashes a red alert in your hands simply because you struck it a quarter-inch out on the toe. A CB simply hands you a memo without acting like the shot was a complete meltdown. :)

    Not surprisingly, my buddy who's played small CBs for years and been a low single-digit doing so is telling me he's considering the blades more or less '...because they look cool.'

    It's all about looks. Always has been. Don't forget that.

    I'm currently gaming '94 Hogan blades right down to 3i and I haven't had a single shot that "flashes a red alert". The club twists a bit more and you can definitely feel thin shots, but not in a painful way.

    I didn't say painful. Don't misconstrue the point.

    If you play blades you know precisely the kind of feedback they provide. Amateurs do not need that level of feedback to play decent golf and in general (or at least with me) it tends to over-inflate the significance of misses to the point that amateurs are not happy with shots that are in all actuality perfectly sufficient and well within the bounds of acceptability.

    When I say "red alert" I mean it's distracting, not that it's going to drop you to your knees in pain. It has nothing to do with pain.

    I'll say up front I have no tolerance for those who believe golf is about perfect shots or anyone trying to sell golf as anything less than trying to finish the round in as few strokes as possible whether that's beating a 90 with an 89 or something far more impressive.

    Advice to amateurs should be towards helping them enjoy the game more and ideally accomplishing that with respect to one having more control of their game than they might. Blades do not give the average player more control over their game. In my experience they will not make things more predictable. Quite the opposite in fact. And I'm really not interested in arguments based on theoretical whimsy. If it's not good for the average player, then why are we talking about it, right?

    I dunno, maybe I'm not your average player, but one of the main reasons I use blades is precisely because they are so damned predictable. If I have a 7 iron in my hand, I know if I hit it out the middle it's going to go around 165 yards, if I catch it a little fat, probably about 10 yards less. If I don;t turn properly it'll go 165 yards but around 20 yards left, if I block it, the same right.

    With CB's, I saw a much bigger variance in all those figures, which made scoring more difficult. Your mileage may vary, but that's why I've stuck with blades for 15 years or so.

    The Dee Three: Titleist 917 D3 9.5 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 65X
    The Stenson: Titleist 917 F3 15 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 75X
    The Walking Stick: Titleist 818 H2 19 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 85X
    The Blades: Nike VR Pro 4i - PW - DG S400 TI Shaft
    The Rusties: Nike Engage 50, 54 Square Sole, 58 Toe Sweep
    The Putter: Nike "The Oven" Method 003
    Balls: Nike RZN Tour Black/Platinum, Bridgestone Tour B XS, Titleist AVX
    Bag: Sun Mountain Four Five


  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @bodhi555 said:

    @MelloYello said:

    @Bubbtubbs said:

    @MelloYello said:
    I think it's mostly about feel and I think that feel is a massive distraction for most amateurs.

    My buddy is thinking about moving from small CBs over to a full-blown blade and I told him, 'you probably won't see a difference in scoring but you're going to feel more on every shot both good and bad.'

    I can see why somebody might be tickled by the feel of a blade here and there but on the whole, I think someone wanting to score optimally would prefer the dullest feeling club possible with which they could still get the necessary feedback.

    Based on my experience, it's not a good thing when your 6-iron flashes a red alert in your hands simply because you struck it a quarter-inch out on the toe. A CB simply hands you a memo without acting like the shot was a complete meltdown. :)

    Not surprisingly, my buddy who's played small CBs for years and been a low single-digit doing so is telling me he's considering the blades more or less '...because they look cool.'

    It's all about looks. Always has been. Don't forget that.

    I'm currently gaming '94 Hogan blades right down to 3i and I haven't had a single shot that "flashes a red alert". The club twists a bit more and you can definitely feel thin shots, but not in a painful way.

    I didn't say painful. Don't misconstrue the point.

    If you play blades you know precisely the kind of feedback they provide. Amateurs do not need that level of feedback to play decent golf and in general (or at least with me) it tends to over-inflate the significance of misses to the point that amateurs are not happy with shots that are in all actuality perfectly sufficient and well within the bounds of acceptability.

    When I say "red alert" I mean it's distracting, not that it's going to drop you to your knees in pain. It has nothing to do with pain.

    I'll say up front I have no tolerance for those who believe golf is about perfect shots or anyone trying to sell golf as anything less than trying to finish the round in as few strokes as possible whether that's beating a 90 with an 89 or something far more impressive.

    Advice to amateurs should be towards helping them enjoy the game more and ideally accomplishing that with respect to one having more control of their game than they might. Blades do not give the average player more control over their game. In my experience they will not make things more predictable. Quite the opposite in fact. And I'm really not interested in arguments based on theoretical whimsy. If it's not good for the average player, then why are we talking about it, right?

    I dunno, maybe I'm not your average player, but one of the main reasons I use blades is precisely because they are so damned predictable. If I have a 7 iron in my hand, I know if I hit it out the middle it's going to go around 165 yards, if I catch it a little fat, probably about 10 yards less. If I don;t turn properly it'll go 165 yards but around 20 yards left, if I block it, the same right.

    With CB's, I saw a much bigger variance in all those figures, which made scoring more difficult. Your mileage may vary, but that's why I've stuck with blades for 15 years or so.

    That’s why over 70% of all professionals don’t use them. If you’ve been playing blades for 15 years I’ll assume you’re a plus cap.

  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @bodhi555 said:

    @MelloYello said:

    @Bubbtubbs said:

    @MelloYello said:
    I think it's mostly about feel and I think that feel is a massive distraction for most amateurs.

    My buddy is thinking about moving from small CBs over to a full-blown blade and I told him, 'you probably won't see a difference in scoring but you're going to feel more on every shot both good and bad.'

    I can see why somebody might be tickled by the feel of a blade here and there but on the whole, I think someone wanting to score optimally would prefer the dullest feeling club possible with which they could still get the necessary feedback.

    Based on my experience, it's not a good thing when your 6-iron flashes a red alert in your hands simply because you struck it a quarter-inch out on the toe. A CB simply hands you a memo without acting like the shot was a complete meltdown. :)

    Not surprisingly, my buddy who's played small CBs for years and been a low single-digit doing so is telling me he's considering the blades more or less '...because they look cool.'

    It's all about looks. Always has been. Don't forget that.

    I'm currently gaming '94 Hogan blades right down to 3i and I haven't had a single shot that "flashes a red alert". The club twists a bit more and you can definitely feel thin shots, but not in a painful way.

    I didn't say painful. Don't misconstrue the point.

    If you play blades you know precisely the kind of feedback they provide. Amateurs do not need that level of feedback to play decent golf and in general (or at least with me) it tends to over-inflate the significance of misses to the point that amateurs are not happy with shots that are in all actuality perfectly sufficient and well within the bounds of acceptability.

    When I say "red alert" I mean it's distracting, not that it's going to drop you to your knees in pain. It has nothing to do with pain.

    I'll say up front I have no tolerance for those who believe golf is about perfect shots or anyone trying to sell golf as anything less than trying to finish the round in as few strokes as possible whether that's beating a 90 with an 89 or something far more impressive.

    Advice to amateurs should be towards helping them enjoy the game more and ideally accomplishing that with respect to one having more control of their game than they might. Blades do not give the average player more control over their game. In my experience they will not make things more predictable. Quite the opposite in fact. And I'm really not interested in arguments based on theoretical whimsy. If it's not good for the average player, then why are we talking about it, right?

    I dunno, maybe I'm not your average player, but one of the main reasons I use blades is precisely because they are so damned predictable. If I have a 7 iron in my hand, I know if I hit it out the middle it's going to go around 165 yards, if I catch it a little fat, probably about 10 yards less. If I don;t turn properly it'll go 165 yards but around 20 yards left, if I block it, the same right.

    With CB's, I saw a much bigger variance in all those figures, which made scoring more difficult. Your mileage may vary, but that's why I've stuck with blades for 15 years or so.

    I don't know exactly what an average player is but,,,,,,,,

    I'm on year 8 of my Ping G20s. I'm a "5".

    If I have a 7 iron in my hand I know if I hit it out the middle it's going to go around 152 yards, (sans any wind effect of course), +/- about 2 yards.

    If I catch it a "little" fat, due to the reduced spin that type of shot typically produces, it may go pretty much the same. A little more fat and I'll lose about 10. Hooks don't hook as much as with a blade and cuts don't cut as much as with a blade but I'm OK with that.

    With blades, I saw a much larger variance with mishits, which occur (in varying degrees of course) about 40-50% of the time, which made scoring more difficult. YMMV but that's why I'm sticking with my GIs. Since a blade isn't likely to produce a better variance that's why I'm sticking with the GIs for 20+ years or so.

    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
  • bodhi555bodhi555 Members Posts: 834 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BiggErn said:

    @bodhi555 said:

    @MelloYello said:

    @Bubbtubbs said:

    @MelloYello said:
    I think it's mostly about feel and I think that feel is a massive distraction for most amateurs.

    My buddy is thinking about moving from small CBs over to a full-blown blade and I told him, 'you probably won't see a difference in scoring but you're going to feel more on every shot both good and bad.'

    I can see why somebody might be tickled by the feel of a blade here and there but on the whole, I think someone wanting to score optimally would prefer the dullest feeling club possible with which they could still get the necessary feedback.

    Based on my experience, it's not a good thing when your 6-iron flashes a red alert in your hands simply because you struck it a quarter-inch out on the toe. A CB simply hands you a memo without acting like the shot was a complete meltdown. :)

    Not surprisingly, my buddy who's played small CBs for years and been a low single-digit doing so is telling me he's considering the blades more or less '...because they look cool.'

    It's all about looks. Always has been. Don't forget that.

    I'm currently gaming '94 Hogan blades right down to 3i and I haven't had a single shot that "flashes a red alert". The club twists a bit more and you can definitely feel thin shots, but not in a painful way.

    I didn't say painful. Don't misconstrue the point.

    If you play blades you know precisely the kind of feedback they provide. Amateurs do not need that level of feedback to play decent golf and in general (or at least with me) it tends to over-inflate the significance of misses to the point that amateurs are not happy with shots that are in all actuality perfectly sufficient and well within the bounds of acceptability.

    When I say "red alert" I mean it's distracting, not that it's going to drop you to your knees in pain. It has nothing to do with pain.

    I'll say up front I have no tolerance for those who believe golf is about perfect shots or anyone trying to sell golf as anything less than trying to finish the round in as few strokes as possible whether that's beating a 90 with an 89 or something far more impressive.

    Advice to amateurs should be towards helping them enjoy the game more and ideally accomplishing that with respect to one having more control of their game than they might. Blades do not give the average player more control over their game. In my experience they will not make things more predictable. Quite the opposite in fact. And I'm really not interested in arguments based on theoretical whimsy. If it's not good for the average player, then why are we talking about it, right?

    I dunno, maybe I'm not your average player, but one of the main reasons I use blades is precisely because they are so damned predictable. If I have a 7 iron in my hand, I know if I hit it out the middle it's going to go around 165 yards, if I catch it a little fat, probably about 10 yards less. If I don;t turn properly it'll go 165 yards but around 20 yards left, if I block it, the same right.

    With CB's, I saw a much bigger variance in all those figures, which made scoring more difficult. Your mileage may vary, but that's why I've stuck with blades for 15 years or so.

    That’s why over 70% of all professionals don’t use them. If you’ve been playing blades for 15 years I’ll assume you’re a plus cap.

    No, I currently play off 6. When I used CBs all the time I was off 11.

    HOW DID THAT HAPPEN???!!?!?! Almost as if there's more to scoring than where the weight is positioned in your irons!

    The Dee Three: Titleist 917 D3 9.5 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 65X
    The Stenson: Titleist 917 F3 15 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 75X
    The Walking Stick: Titleist 818 H2 19 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 85X
    The Blades: Nike VR Pro 4i - PW - DG S400 TI Shaft
    The Rusties: Nike Engage 50, 54 Square Sole, 58 Toe Sweep
    The Putter: Nike "The Oven" Method 003
    Balls: Nike RZN Tour Black/Platinum, Bridgestone Tour B XS, Titleist AVX
    Bag: Sun Mountain Four Five


  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Golfjack said:
    So here's the real question... how many strokes do you gain by playing GI clubs vs blades and/or vice versa? I don't think (might have missed it) people have tried to quantify this rather just use their common sense. **** has used a similar approach when evaluating similar clubs. Would be interesting to see it used across a spectrum just for demonstration purposes.

    How many stars are in the Universe ?

    Same-same. Since NO 2 shots are ever alike you're asking a question that's impossible to answer.

    This real question has been asked and answered many times before even in this thread.

    And the only answer is that it's up to the user to quantify, however inaccurate it may or may not be.

    Kinda like the guy who thinks the psychology of hitting a smaller SS, the center of the face, will somehow cause the player to concentrate more. LMAO

    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
  • balls_deepballs_deep Members Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @revanant said:

    @balls_deep said:

    @Bubbtubbs said:

    @MelloYello said:
    I think it's mostly about feel and I think that feel is a massive distraction for most amateurs.

    My buddy is thinking about moving from small CBs over to a full-blown blade and I told him, 'you probably won't see a difference in scoring but you're going to feel more on every shot both good and bad.'

    I can see why somebody might be tickled by the feel of a blade here and there but on the whole, I think someone wanting to score optimally would prefer the dullest feeling club possible with which they could still get the necessary feedback.

    Based on my experience, it's not a good thing when your 6-iron flashes a red alert in your hands simply because you struck it a quarter-inch out on the toe. A CB simply hands you a memo without acting like the shot was a complete meltdown. :)

    Not surprisingly, my buddy who's played small CBs for years and been a low single-digit doing so is telling me he's considering the blades more or less '...because they look cool.'

    It's all about looks. Always has been. Don't forget that.

    I'm currently gaming '94 Hogan blades right down to 3i and I haven't had a single shot that "flashes a red alert". The club twists a bit more and you can definitely feel thin shots, but not in a painful way.

    Re: face opening and MOI etc. The first hole on the track I play up at my cottage is a shortish par 4 dog left with a pond on the corner. Basically makes it impossible to hit anything but iron off the tee as there is OB right and a 30 yard wide fairway between pond on left and trees/OB right. The water is also 220 out and doesn't end until 300 so virtually impossible to succeed with driver. I hit 5 iron off the tee with a bit of wind behind but with the blade and a slight miss hit (first swing of the day with no warm up) I go the distance I needed but I felt the face open a touch. This lead to the ball being under a tree and a restricted swing for me. That same swing with my other players CBs I have/now use goes straight and leaves me on the fairway. That isn't imagination it's a fact and THAT is a difference in hitting a green or not.

    So, I guess the difference is that I'm actually ok with putting the ball behind a tree occasionally, because it shows me that I made a mistake that needs to be cleaned up. For me, at this point in my growth, the best thing I can get from a round is a lesson that I can take with me down the road.

    I'm not worried about the scores I shot last month--I'm much more interested in making sure I build good habits so that I'm a better golfer in a few years. To the extent my irons give me exactly what I put into them, I like them as a learning tool. And what I have found practically is that I have a lot of small and big successes during rounds, and I can look back and measure my improvement with full knowledge that there's no static in the line.


    I'm also not at the point where I can look at my iron play and be angry over a single lost stroke. The thing that deserves my serious attention is my putting, so that's what I've been focusing on.

    I got to go to the Northern Trust this weekend. The thing that seriously stood out to me, by seeing great players up close, is just the fact that everyone is an excellent lag putter. You see it on TV all the time, but seeing the actual distances and performances (and not just seeing featured groups) in person puts it into a different perspective.

    One thing that was really memorable was watching Justin Rose on hole #16 on Sunday. It was a driveable par 4, but he put his drive onto the #17 tee box. He then hit a 40-yard pitch that left him 24 feet to the hole. He made the putt for birdie.

    If I'm in that spot with a 40-yard pitch, there's a decent chance I lose a stroke on the pitch and a very high chance that I will 3-putt from 24 feet. That's where I can start to really shave strokes. Compared to that, my irons are pretty irrelevant.

    To be honest you're kind of contradicting yourself. You say you don't care if you're behind a tree because the lesson is more important than your score, but then you're talking about improving other parts of your game which are going to improve your score. If you aren't behind that tree with a 10-20 yard distance loss from the open club face, your strokes gained improve through a much higher percentage of GIR and general proximity to the hole. If I miss hit the ball and get a good result, I still am mad at myself for that bad swing. I'm just going to have a slightly better score at the end. If I had that exact same swing with my iBlade, I guarantee you that ball is on the fairway. I also guarantee you that hitting the green with a PW from the fairway instead of a knockdown 8 iron from under a tree is much more likely. I still feel the miss hit with the other club, I still make adjustments, I'm just not under a d*mn tree. There is no "learning" justification for blades - you can learn just as much playing something with help. You like the way they look and feel. End of story. That isn't a bad thing and as you said you might be shooting the same score because of other reasons. If you're going with that argument you should go buy some persimmon woods, wedges with absolutely no bounce, and a Wilson 8802 putter so that you can learn lessons from all of your clubs at once.

    Cobra F9 Speedback HZRDUS HC Black 62g
    Titleist 917F2 15.75°  HZRDUS HC Black 75g
    Titleist 816H1 20° Accra FX200H M4
    Titleist 718 T-MB 4i Project X LZ 6.0
    Titleist 716 CB 5i-PW Project X LZ 6.0
    Vokey 52f 56f 60d Project X LZ 6.0
    Scotty Cameron Studio Stainless Newport 2 350g 34.5"
    Pro V1

    Currently - 6.9


  • mahoniemahonie EnglandMembers Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @balls_deep said:

    @revanant said:

    @balls_deep said:

    @Bubbtubbs said:

    @MelloYello said:
    I think it's mostly about feel and I think that feel is a massive distraction for most amateurs.

    My buddy is thinking about moving from small CBs over to a full-blown blade and I told him, 'you probably won't see a difference in scoring but you're going to feel more on every shot both good and bad.'

    I can see why somebody might be tickled by the feel of a blade here and there but on the whole, I think someone wanting to score optimally would prefer the dullest feeling club possible with which they could still get the necessary feedback.

    Based on my experience, it's not a good thing when your 6-iron flashes a red alert in your hands simply because you struck it a quarter-inch out on the toe. A CB simply hands you a memo without acting like the shot was a complete meltdown. :)

    Not surprisingly, my buddy who's played small CBs for years and been a low single-digit doing so is telling me he's considering the blades more or less '...because they look cool.'

    It's all about looks. Always has been. Don't forget that.

    I'm currently gaming '94 Hogan blades right down to 3i and I haven't had a single shot that "flashes a red alert". The club twists a bit more and you can definitely feel thin shots, but not in a painful way.

    Re: face opening and MOI etc. The first hole on the track I play up at my cottage is a shortish par 4 dog left with a pond on the corner. Basically makes it impossible to hit anything but iron off the tee as there is OB right and a 30 yard wide fairway between pond on left and trees/OB right. The water is also 220 out and doesn't end until 300 so virtually impossible to succeed with driver. I hit 5 iron off the tee with a bit of wind behind but with the blade and a slight miss hit (first swing of the day with no warm up) I go the distance I needed but I felt the face open a touch. This lead to the ball being under a tree and a restricted swing for me. That same swing with my other players CBs I have/now use goes straight and leaves me on the fairway. That isn't imagination it's a fact and THAT is a difference in hitting a green or not.

    So, I guess the difference is that I'm actually ok with putting the ball behind a tree occasionally, because it shows me that I made a mistake that needs to be cleaned up. For me, at this point in my growth, the best thing I can get from a round is a lesson that I can take with me down the road.

    I'm not worried about the scores I shot last month--I'm much more interested in making sure I build good habits so that I'm a better golfer in a few years. To the extent my irons give me exactly what I put into them, I like them as a learning tool. And what I have found practically is that I have a lot of small and big successes during rounds, and I can look back and measure my improvement with full knowledge that there's no static in the line.


    I'm also not at the point where I can look at my iron play and be angry over a single lost stroke. The thing that deserves my serious attention is my putting, so that's what I've been focusing on.

    I got to go to the Northern Trust this weekend. The thing that seriously stood out to me, by seeing great players up close, is just the fact that everyone is an excellent lag putter. You see it on TV all the time, but seeing the actual distances and performances (and not just seeing featured groups) in person puts it into a different perspective.

    One thing that was really memorable was watching Justin Rose on hole #16 on Sunday. It was a driveable par 4, but he put his drive onto the #17 tee box. He then hit a 40-yard pitch that left him 24 feet to the hole. He made the putt for birdie.

    If I'm in that spot with a 40-yard pitch, there's a decent chance I lose a stroke on the pitch and a very high chance that I will 3-putt from 24 feet. That's where I can start to really shave strokes. Compared to that, my irons are pretty irrelevant.

    To be honest you're kind of contradicting yourself. You say you don't care if you're behind a tree because the lesson is more important than your score, but then you're talking about improving other parts of your game which are going to improve your score. If you aren't behind that tree with a 10-20 yard distance loss from the open club face, your strokes gained improve through a much higher percentage of GIR and general proximity to the hole. If I miss hit the ball and get a good result, I still am mad at myself for that bad swing. I'm just going to have a slightly better score at the end. If I had that exact same swing with my iBlade, I guarantee you that ball is on the fairway. I also guarantee you that hitting the green with a PW from the fairway instead of a knockdown 8 iron from under a tree is much more likely. I still feel the miss hit with the other club, I still make adjustments, I'm just not under a d*mn tree. There is no "learning" justification for blades - you can learn just as much playing something with help. You like the way they look and feel. End of story. That isn't a bad thing and as you said you might be shooting the same score because of other reasons. If you're going with that argument you should go buy some persimmon woods, wedges with absolutely no bounce, and a Wilson 8802 putter so that you can learn lessons from all of your clubs at once.

    You’re not going to tell me that I have no business putting with an 8802-type putter are you?

    Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
    MD Golf Superstrong 3-wood UST Proforce 65 Stiff
    Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
    Mizuno MP4 4-PW DG S300
    Wilson Staff PMP wedges 50/54/58 KBS Hi-Rev 2.0
    Radius Classic 8
  • revanantrevanant Members Posts: 295 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 13, 2019 8:48pm #1460

    @balls_deep said:

    @revanant said:

    @balls_deep said:

    @Bubbtubbs said:

    @MelloYello said:
    I think it's mostly about feel and I think that feel is a massive distraction for most amateurs.

    My buddy is thinking about moving from small CBs over to a full-blown blade and I told him, 'you probably won't see a difference in scoring but you're going to feel more on every shot both good and bad.'

    I can see why somebody might be tickled by the feel of a blade here and there but on the whole, I think someone wanting to score optimally would prefer the dullest feeling club possible with which they could still get the necessary feedback.

    Based on my experience, it's not a good thing when your 6-iron flashes a red alert in your hands simply because you struck it a quarter-inch out on the toe. A CB simply hands you a memo without acting like the shot was a complete meltdown. :)

    Not surprisingly, my buddy who's played small CBs for years and been a low single-digit doing so is telling me he's considering the blades more or less '...because they look cool.'

    It's all about looks. Always has been. Don't forget that.

    I'm currently gaming '94 Hogan blades right down to 3i and I haven't had a single shot that "flashes a red alert". The club twists a bit more and you can definitely feel thin shots, but not in a painful way.

    Re: face opening and MOI etc. The first hole on the track I play up at my cottage is a shortish par 4 dog left with a pond on the corner. Basically makes it impossible to hit anything but iron off the tee as there is OB right and a 30 yard wide fairway between pond on left and trees/OB right. The water is also 220 out and doesn't end until 300 so virtually impossible to succeed with driver. I hit 5 iron off the tee with a bit of wind behind but with the blade and a slight miss hit (first swing of the day with no warm up) I go the distance I needed but I felt the face open a touch. This lead to the ball being under a tree and a restricted swing for me. That same swing with my other players CBs I have/now use goes straight and leaves me on the fairway. That isn't imagination it's a fact and THAT is a difference in hitting a green or not.

    So, I guess the difference is that I'm actually ok with putting the ball behind a tree occasionally, because it shows me that I made a mistake that needs to be cleaned up. For me, at this point in my growth, the best thing I can get from a round is a lesson that I can take with me down the road.

    I'm not worried about the scores I shot last month--I'm much more interested in making sure I build good habits so that I'm a better golfer in a few years. To the extent my irons give me exactly what I put into them, I like them as a learning tool. And what I have found practically is that I have a lot of small and big successes during rounds, and I can look back and measure my improvement with full knowledge that there's no static in the line.


    I'm also not at the point where I can look at my iron play and be angry over a single lost stroke. The thing that deserves my serious attention is my putting, so that's what I've been focusing on.

    I got to go to the Northern Trust this weekend. The thing that seriously stood out to me, by seeing great players up close, is just the fact that everyone is an excellent lag putter. You see it on TV all the time, but seeing the actual distances and performances (and not just seeing featured groups) in person puts it into a different perspective.

    One thing that was really memorable was watching Justin Rose on hole #16 on Sunday. It was a driveable par 4, but he put his drive onto the #17 tee box. He then hit a 40-yard pitch that left him 24 feet to the hole. He made the putt for birdie.

    If I'm in that spot with a 40-yard pitch, there's a decent chance I lose a stroke on the pitch and a very high chance that I will 3-putt from 24 feet. That's where I can start to really shave strokes. Compared to that, my irons are pretty irrelevant.

    To be honest you're kind of contradicting yourself. You say you don't care if you're behind a tree because the lesson is more important than your score, but then you're talking about improving other parts of your game which are going to improve your score. If you aren't behind that tree with a 10-20 yard distance loss from the open club face, your strokes gained improve through a much higher percentage of GIR and general proximity to the hole. If I miss hit the ball and get a good result, I still am mad at myself for that bad swing. I'm just going to have a slightly better score at the end. If I had that exact same swing with my iBlade, I guarantee you that ball is on the fairway. I also guarantee you that hitting the green with a PW from the fairway instead of a knockdown 8 iron from under a tree is much more likely. I still feel the miss hit with the other club, I still make adjustments, I'm just not under a d*mn tree. There is no "learning" justification for blades - you can learn just as much playing something with help. You like the way they look and feel. End of story. That isn't a bad thing and as you said you might be shooting the same score because of other reasons. If you're going with that argument you should go buy some persimmon woods, wedges with absolutely no bounce, and a Wilson 8802 putter so that you can learn lessons from all of your clubs at once.

    So, I have a similar example of something that happened to me a few rounds ago. I had a good lie from about 135 yards to the pin for my second shot on a par 4. It's my perfect 7 iron distance. Only I hit an overcooked draw and put the ball into a greenside bunker that needed about 145 yards of carry to be reached. I now had about 15 yards to the pin, but I made really clean contact with my sand wedge, and wound up in the rough, about 40 yards from where I was standing. Annoyed with myself, I kept my sand wedge in hand and botched the pitch, putting it about 10 feet from where I was standing. Another pitch was called for, which was better but short, leaving me just on the fringe of the green and about 12 feet away. Rather than chip, I used my putter, and got lucky--the putt tracked to the hole and dropped, for a double bogey.

    The whole thing was just an expensive saga of mistakes. It all could have been avoided if I hadn't overcooked my iron shot. But it was a clean strike--I just caught it a little forward and closed, and it's the sort of miss that would happen with any iron. Morevoer, the damage should have been lessened coming out of the bunker, and with all-around better chipping and more focus. I also got the memory of having a fluke putt drop. Looking back, it's a useful memory, and the fact that I made a double bogey when I was in great position for a par or a bogey has zero actual cost or consequence attached to it from a scoring perspective--it's way in the past. The memory and lesson is more important to me.

    Things I learned/was reminded of:
    1) Be careful about ball position with mid-irons;
    2) Be very careful not to catch a ball too cleanly from a bunker;
    3) Don't rush pitches/chips;
    4) Bad shots happen--don't let them compound;
    5) Don't give up on putts.

    Quite frankly, your game is farther along than mine is. You probably are a much better lag putter, and you've cut out most of the mental mistakes from your short game. I'm not there yet, but I look forward to getting there.

    I hear your point about persimmons and such. I actually wouldn't be against teeing up a persimmon for a round or two, or playing a hickory-shafted iron. I think it would be fun, even if I don't score as well. My score was much higher than usual when I played Bethpage Black, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

    I do want to play my best. But I'm ok with the fact that improvement in golf isn't always linear.

    That being said, my MP-4s are in the bag because--the above anecdote notwithstanding--I'm actually having a lot of success with them. They are my iron set with the flattest lie angle and most narrow sole, and I think it goes a long way towards why I strike the ball well with them. Practically, I find I have good ball flight on the course, even though the shaft is a bad fit on paper. So, I'm a little hesitant to change things up, since things are working well.

    But, while I won't sell my MP-4s, I also won't honestly won't cling to my MP-4s as my primary irons if I can play better golf with a different set. I'm sitting on my 716 CBs, and I am going to pay for a lie adjustment to see if it helps improve their performance in my hands. I''m just waiting for the new T100s/MP20s/etc. to drop. At that point, I'm planning on going in to Club Champion and doing an iron + shaft test. Loft+lie adjustment is included as part of the service, so I can make sure I'm dialing in the 716 CBs exactly. I'll put my MP-4s and 716 CBs up against newer offerings, and if I find a club + shaft combo that gives me improved performance from my current setup, I'll make changes based on my budget.

    But, I'll probably still be out of luck if I overcook a draw. : )

    Post edited by revanant on

    Cobra King LTD
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    Mizuno MP-4 w/ Project X 6.0
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    Mizuno JPX 58-14
    Ping Redwood D66

  • farmerfarmer Members Posts: 8,068 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm an old guy (69) and I play hybrids through the seven. About a five hdcp. Have the hybrids helped my game? Oh yes, best golf thing I've done in years. I can tell where on the face I make contact, just like I could with the old Walter Hagen's I first played. The Haig's never told me anything I didn't already know, and stubbornly refused to give me any swing advice.

  • mahoniemahonie EnglandMembers Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I’ll just leave this here. Discuss.

    Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
    MD Golf Superstrong 3-wood UST Proforce 65 Stiff
    Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
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    Wilson Staff PMP wedges 50/54/58 KBS Hi-Rev 2.0
    Radius Classic 8
  • balls_deepballs_deep Members Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @mahonie said:
    I’ll just leave this here. Discuss.

    I mean, yeah. You can hit a ball with them. Again, the guy has an abysmal swing so how much of a difference does it make? Not a ton. There is no consistency whatsoever. He's spraying the ball all over the place. For me, trying to shoot par, I want the cushion of distance retention/MOI when strike isn't perfectly middled. For what it's worth, I hit smaller irons/thinner soles much better so I can see your point from that perspective. I just think you can get every single benefit from a CB that you get from a blade without the downsides.

    Cobra F9 Speedback HZRDUS HC Black 62g
    Titleist 917F2 15.75°  HZRDUS HC Black 75g
    Titleist 816H1 20° Accra FX200H M4
    Titleist 718 T-MB 4i Project X LZ 6.0
    Titleist 716 CB 5i-PW Project X LZ 6.0
    Vokey 52f 56f 60d Project X LZ 6.0
    Scotty Cameron Studio Stainless Newport 2 350g 34.5"
    Pro V1

    Currently - 6.9


  • mahoniemahonie EnglandMembers Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @balls_deep said:

    @mahonie said:
    I’ll just leave this here. Discuss.

    I mean, yeah. You can hit a ball with them. Again, the guy has an abysmal swing so how much of a difference does it make? Not a ton. There is no consistency whatsoever. He's spraying the ball all over the place. For me, trying to shoot par, I want the cushion of distance retention/MOI when strike isn't perfectly middled. For what it's worth, I hit smaller irons/thinner soles much better so I can see your point from that perspective. I just think you can get every single benefit from a CB that you get from a blade without the downsides.

    My take from the video is that the P730s are the least playable of the modern blades according to Maltby and yet the results were, you could argue, better than those of the best selling club of the last couple of years even with the guy’s inconsistency. An example of the marketing winning against results on the course?

    Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
    MD Golf Superstrong 3-wood UST Proforce 65 Stiff
    Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
    Mizuno MP4 4-PW DG S300
    Wilson Staff PMP wedges 50/54/58 KBS Hi-Rev 2.0
    Radius Classic 8
  • BenHoganSlam1953BenHoganSlam1953 Professional Hacker Members Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I've played MBs / CBs and G type irons (Apex FTX, Hogan Edge CFT, MP-32, MP-53) ... played similar with all. Currently, my lowest iron is a 6i so there would be little difference anyways. I can shoot in the 70's or 90's with any of them since location off the tee is a bigger factor in my scores than the type of iron I play.

    Tour Exotics XCG-V (13)
    Ping G15 FW (17), MP-650 HY (19), G10 HY (21), G10 HY (24)
    MP-32 6i - 9i, Vokey SM5 50 (F), 54 (F), 58 (M), SM4 62 (T)
    Odyssey ProType Black #2
  • BMCBMC Members Posts: 3,643 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    It's fun and recreation for most of us. Yes, a 2018 Lexus drives better in every way than a 1967 Corvette.
    But, given the choice, I'm drivin' the 'Vette.

    Titleist 917D2
    Callaway Rogue 4-wood
    Callaway 2018 MB irons
    Callaway MD4 wedges
    NIKE Method Mod 60 putter
  • erikroerikro Massachusetts Members Posts: 627 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s probably been said already but I think the proper shaft is much more important than the club head. Anything over a 105 gram shaft and I feel like the club is fighting me whether it’s a mb or a g410.

  • Nard_SNard_S Members Posts: 3,440 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    ^^^ I agree. ^^^

    I have many MB's and what works and what does not comes down to shaft profile and gross mass. MB's need much more attention on this, the MM's of good hit zone is smaller and you need a higher groove impact to realize benefits of high spin & low launch. Not all blades are good or great. Some factory setups are awful. I've acquired a dozen sets, all used, it's cheap, but only 3 maybe are beautifully specified/built and fit me well even if most all shafts are in the zone a fitter or myself could sign off on. Literally have to hone in on a 5 gram range and a profile that pulls the swing to it's best light. I do that, they become an extension of me. Zero "focus" needed. lol.

  • LowAndLeft32LowAndLeft32 Members Posts: 109 ✭✭✭

    @Nard_S interesting comments. So what are your top three sets that work? Thanks

  • moko jumbymoko jumby Members Posts: 21 ✭✭

    if you're a high handicapper why are you even thinking about equipment? it's like ppl who don't know how to code debating whether to use java or C#, it's irrelevant to you because you haven't even learned how to build an HTML table yet. you're trying to min/max an essentially random action, your swing is fundamentally wrong and inconsistent causing you to mishit the ball all the time, it doesn't matter what club you use.

    my advice if you're a double digit handicap would be literally don't spend 1 more second thinking about clubs and spend that time learning how the golf swing works. any time you have the urge to come on the equipment forum, stop and go do a shallowing drill in the mirror instead. any time you feel like browsing the callaway preowned site go watch a youtube video on hip rotation in the downswing instead. when your brother buys you a new hybrid for christmas sell it and buy 2 lessons instead.

    are AP1s gonna shave 2 strokes off your game compared to MBs? maybe? who cares? you shoot 92 instead of 94? im not trying to belittle bad players or discredit progress, but invest your time learning how to make a fundamentally correct golf swing and you don't have to worry about 92 vs. 94, you'll be shooting in the 70s

  • jpdxjpdx Members Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Hey guys, for the guys who say no one should play blades or that’s say they play cb .... how many of you play cb wedges?

    If you don’t, why don’t you?
    If you do, where do you get them?

    Srixon z785 hzrdus black 6.5
    Nike
    Vapor Fly 3 wood 15* Diamana Blueboard
    Nike
    Vapor Fly 3 hybrid 20* Diamana Blueboard
    Nike Vapor Fly Pro 4 DG Pro s300 -2*
    Nike
    Vapor Pro 4-PW DG s300 -2*
    Nike
    Engage 54* SS and 58* DS
    Nike Method Matter m4-12
    Nike Air Hybrid II Bag

    b-team/travel bag
    Nike Vapor Flex 440 driver 9.5* Diamana Blueboard
    Nike Vapor Pro driver 11.5* Diamana Blueboard
    Taylormade Burner 2.0 3 wood stock r flex shaft
    Taylormade Burner 2.0 3 hybrid stock r flex haft

    Nike Vapor Fly Pro 4-AW DG Pro S300 -2*
    Nike Engage 50* SS 54* SS 60* DS
    Nike Method Origin b2-01
    Cure CX-2
    Nike Air Sport II and Hyperadapt

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