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This really illustrates the difference between pro and scratch

ObeeObee ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 3,606 ClubWRX
edited March 12 in Instruction & Academy
Take a look at the stats from today's SCGA (Southern California Golf Association) Mid-Amateur (25+) qualifier at Goose Creek Golf Club, just outside, Riverside, California. The 18th hole is a beast: 466 yard dogleg right with water guarding the right of the fairway and all the way up to the green. It's one of the best and most difficult finishing holes around, mostly because the lake is perfectly situated. No matter how long you are, it entices you to cut off a bit of water, and even the longest hitters find this a difficult tee ball.



Well here's the damage from today's qualifier:



https://scga-2019scg...m/pages/1855294





5.59 stroke average??? On a 466 yard hole? The average index of the field of 90 is probably about 1 or 2. Put a field of Tour Pros on the course, and the average score would be about 4.3, give or take. I've never seen a par 4 with that high of a stroke average....



The one(!) guy who birdied it picked up almost 2.6 strokes on the field -- on ONE HOLE!!! LOL



Discuss....
PING G400 Max - Tour 65 S
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Odyssey Works Versa Tank 1W (bent to 78.5*)

Comments

  • BrianMcGBrianMcG Advanced Members Posts: 2,130 ✭✭
    edited March 12
    16 pars, 34 bogeys, 16 doubles, and 15 others?



    Wow. I bet if everyone played it as a par 5 they may have fared better.



    Too bad they weren't playing skins that day.
    Walter: Tell me Bobby, why do you play this game?
    Bobby: I play because I love it.
    Walter: Well I play for the money. I have to win. That is why every time we face each other I will always beat you.
  • ObeeObee ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 3,606 ClubWRX
    BrianMcG wrote:


    16 pars, 34 bogeys, 16 doubles, and 15 others?



    Wow. I bet if everyone played it as a par 5 they may have fared better.



    Too bad they weren't playing skins that day.




    Yes on the "play it as a par 5" thing.



    This time of year (cold temps, fairways soft), I would DEFINITELY play it as a 3-shot hole if I were around par with one hole to go. I have generally made par there over the years, but usually with a miss long-left and then a chip and a putt. Any kind of a whiffed driver, and it would be automatic 7-iron, lob wedge for me, though.
    PING G400 Max - Tour 65 S
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    Don Wood Custom Grind 47* PW
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    Mizuno S18 60/7 LW
    Odyssey Works Versa Tank 1W (bent to 78.5*)
  • ThinkingPlusThinkingPlus ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 1,453 ClubWRX
    Ego. That is a classic "safety first" hole. Do anything you have to, no matter what, to keep the ball out of the water. Make no worse than 5; if you make a 4 run at high speed to the clubhouse. Hope the guy that made 3 bought a lottery ticket.
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  • scottyc15scottyc15 Members Posts: 24
    That hole is almost an exact replica of #9 at Carlton Woods Nicklaus. I know you've played the CWI a few times, as have I, and that hole drives me nuts. If I hit the fairway, it was a miss because I'm always trying to end up in the left rough right of the bunker.
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  • GolfjackGolfjack All about the rotation Advanced Members Posts: 905
    Dog leg left water left or dog leg right water right are the most difficult holes, especially if they are long. Short is OK if you can hit it over the water. Otherwise I'd usually just try to hit the left side of the fairway or at worst the left rough on the dogleg rights. Then it becomes a long approach shot, and yeah it's become a par 5 lol.



    I'm surprised the hardest hole (18, this one) is almost a stroke harder than 15 the second hardest. Wow.



    To me this is a well designed hole, challenging and fair.
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  • b.heltsb.helts Advanced Members Posts: 2,794 ✭✭
    I like goose creek. Good golf course.



    Three of the bottom 4 or 5 made 12, 12, 9 on 18.



    Which obviously bumps the averages. If this has been the tournament itself and not the qualifier we would see nowhere near 5.5 as an average.



    We all know in these qualifiers you end up with people playing who really shouldn’t be.
  • crapulacrapula Golf! Advanced Members Posts: 1,740 ✭✭
    No eagles on the day!
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  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 23,995 ClubWRX
    OB...you didn't play in this?
  • ObeeObee ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 3,606 ClubWRX
    b.helts wrote:


    I like goose creek. Good golf course.



    Three of the bottom 4 or 5 made 12, 12, 9 on 18.



    Which obviously bumps the averages. If this has been the tournament itself and not the qualifier we would see nowhere near 5.5 as an average.



    We all know in these qualifiers you end up with people playing who really shouldn't be.




    Totally true. I was just too lazy to do that homework! LOL!
    PING G400 Max - Tour 65 S
    Callaway Rogue 15* 3W
    Titleist H1 19* Diamana S+ Blue 70hy
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    Titleist "Vokey Design" 56* K Grind
    Mizuno S18 60/7 LW
    Odyssey Works Versa Tank 1W (bent to 78.5*)
  • ObeeObee ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 3,606 ClubWRX
    DavePelz4 wrote:


    OB...you didn't play in this?




    My qualifier is tomorrow at Rustic Canyon.



    25 mph sustained winds in the forecast, which means gusts to 40 to 50. Top 13 of 90 will advance. Will be 81 or so, I bet. 40 to 50 gusts are just stupid.



    Three years ago, my buddy and I played in the SCGA Four-Ball qualifier and shot 78, best-ball!!! And we Qualified!! Same conditions: Sustained 25, gusts to 50. Brutal. Hard to even walk directly into a wind like that. I couldn't reach either of the par 5's in THREE SHOTS that year. Driver, 3-wood, 3-wood, 60 yard wedge.



    I will need to be in "full grind" tomorrow....
    PING G400 Max - Tour 65 S
    Callaway Rogue 15* 3W
    Titleist H1 19* Diamana S+ Blue 70hy
    Titleist H1 23* Diamana S+ Blue 70hy
    Adams Idea Tech V4 5H 25* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
    Adams Idea Tech V4 6H 28* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
    Adams Idea Tech V4 7H 32* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
    Titleist AP2 716 8i 37* KBS Tour S
    Titleist AP2 716 9i 42* KBS Tour S
    Don Wood Custom Grind 47* PW
    Don Wood Custom Grind 51* GW
    Titleist "Vokey Design" 56* K Grind
    Mizuno S18 60/7 LW
    Odyssey Works Versa Tank 1W (bent to 78.5*)
  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 23,995 ClubWRX
    Obee wrote:

    DavePelz4 wrote:


    OB...you didn't play in this?




    My qualifier is tomorrow at Rustic Canyon.



    25 mph sustained winds in the forecast, which means gusts to 40 to 50. Top 13 of 90 will advance. Will be 81 or so, I bet. 40 to 50 gusts are just stupid.



    Three years ago, my buddy and I played in the SCGA Four-Ball qualifier and shot 78, best-ball!!! And we Qualified!! Same conditions: Sustained 25, gusts to 50. Brutal. Hard to even walk directly into a wind like that. I couldn't reach either of the par 5's in THREE SHOTS that year. Driver, 3-wood, 3-wood, 60 yard wedge.



    I will need to be in "full grind" tomorrow....




    Holy Cheese Whiz...how incredibly tough was the round and wind? Saw qualifying scores of 85...it had to truly be difficult.
  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Advanced Members Posts: 11,362 ✭✭
    Obee wrote:

    DavePelz4 wrote:


    OB...you didn't play in this?




    My qualifier is tomorrow at Rustic Canyon.



    25 mph sustained winds in the forecast, which means gusts to 40 to 50. Top 13 of 90 will advance. Will be 81 or so, I bet. 40 to 50 gusts are just stupid.



    Three years ago, my buddy and I played in the SCGA Four-Ball qualifier and shot 78, best-ball!!! And we Qualified!! Same conditions: Sustained 25, gusts to 50. Brutal. Hard to even walk directly into a wind like that. I couldn't reach either of the par 5's in THREE SHOTS that year. Driver, 3-wood, 3-wood, 60 yard wedge.



    I will need to be in "full grind" tomorrow....




    Reminds me of a mid-am qualifier 6 or 7 years back. Shot 81 on a cool (45*) and long (6700) and wet (no roll) and windy day (40-50kmh) and thought I was DONE. 7 guys got in out of 40 or so .,.. 85's made it. 78 was low



    Some years at diff tracks you need a 74 or better



    Good look tomorrow Obee
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  • rangersgoalierangersgoalie Advanced Members Posts: 1,729
    One of my students has been starting to play really well.



    We had talked about 18 at Goose Creek a couple days before he played. He had played the course once.

    He had a nice cushion going in to 18.

    Hit his drive too far left, and just played it as a par five. Missed about a 10 footer for par he said,

    But qualified easily.....

    Goose is a great course, but pretty easy for good ball strikers until you get to 18.

    Then all of a sudden you have an asskicker staring at you to finish your round!
  • MtlJeffMtlJeff The GOAT Advanced Members Posts: 27,949 ✭✭
    edited March 16
    I think it's two fold....pros are typically going to be MUCH more confident hitting longer approaches into greens. So they won't necessarily feel obliged to try a riskier play off the tee. Even a 1-2 index,many of them do not want to hit a 215ys approach into a par 4. A pro is probably still thinking he can make birdies. I would imagine proximity to hole from 190+ or so, is one of the biggest deltas between scratch and pro, of any part of the game.



    Also the second of the two-fold part is that pros misses with driver are usually going to be less penal and they hit it further, so that also helps
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  • ObeeObee ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 3,606 ClubWRX
    MtlJeff said:
    I think it's two fold....pros are typically going to be MUCH more confident hitting longer approaches into greens. So they won't necessarily feel obliged to try a riskier play off the tee. Even a 1-2 index,many of them do not want to hit a 215ys approach into a par 4. A pro is probably still thinking he can make birdies. I would imagine proximity to hole from 190+ or so, is one of the biggest deltas between scratch and pro, of any part of the game.



    Also the second of the two-fold part is that pros misses with driver are usually going to be less penal and they hit it further, so that also helps
    As usual, sir, spot-on assessment.
    I think someone in this thread earlier, though, also pointed out that the bottom third in the field absolutely butchered the hole with 8, 9,'s etc. on it. Some of that is just "give up."
    PING G400 Max - Tour 65 S
    Callaway Rogue 15* 3W
    Titleist H1 19* Diamana S+ Blue 70hy
    Titleist H1 23* Diamana S+ Blue 70hy
    Adams Idea Tech V4 5H 25* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
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    Titleist AP2 716 8i 37* KBS Tour S
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  • Luke_RyanLuke_Ryan Members Posts: 41 ✭✭
    Played Goose Creek about a month ago. Birdied 18 from the tips (obviously). Took the most aggressive line possible off the tee, and cleared the water by maybe 10 yards. Had 125 to a back pin, and stuffed my gap wedge to 6 feet. Made the putt. I freakin' love that course. Unfortunately had to pull out of the MidAm qualifier due to a new job and couldn't take off on that day. Wish I had played
  • gatorMDgatorMD Hacker-in-Chief ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 4,111 ClubWRX
    i hit SW to 6 inches for the tap in.  
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  • ObeeObee ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 3,606 ClubWRX
    Luke_Ryan said:
    Played Goose Creek about a month ago. Birdied 18 from the tips (obviously). Took the most aggressive line possible off the tee, and cleared the water by maybe 10 yards. Had 125 to a back pin, and stuffed my gap wedge to 6 feet. Made the putt. I freakin' love that course. Unfortunately had to pull out of the MidAm qualifier due to a new job and couldn't take off on that day. Wish I had played
    Wait, you're a mid-am who hits Driver, GW to Goose 18 from the tips and I've never played with you before? How is this??? :-)
    Hit me up via PM, and let's play Bear Creek or Victoria soon.... :-)
    PING G400 Max - Tour 65 S
    Callaway Rogue 15* 3W
    Titleist H1 19* Diamana S+ Blue 70hy
    Titleist H1 23* Diamana S+ Blue 70hy
    Adams Idea Tech V4 5H 25* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
    Adams Idea Tech V4 6H 28* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
    Adams Idea Tech V4 7H 32* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
    Titleist AP2 716 8i 37* KBS Tour S
    Titleist AP2 716 9i 42* KBS Tour S
    Don Wood Custom Grind 47* PW
    Don Wood Custom Grind 51* GW
    Titleist "Vokey Design" 56* K Grind
    Mizuno S18 60/7 LW
    Odyssey Works Versa Tank 1W (bent to 78.5*)
  • Shades234Shades234 Advanced Members Posts: 215 ✭✭
    edited March 20
    I should've tried to qualify up at Rustic. Smooth 85 would've done it.  :#
    https://scga-2019scgamidamateurqualifyingrusticc.golfgenius.com/pages/1777786 

    While I've never played Goose, I've heard good things. BHCC was a bit of a fiesta. Surprised people didn't go lower. 
  • dcrocketmandcrocketman Advanced Members Posts: 492 ✭✭
    edited 12:18AM
    Played years ago with a a buddy who was on the Canadian tour. This was in the early 90’s and I wasn’t very far removed from my competitive days. We played 9 holes and then had lunch. I hit as far as him, hit it as close as him, figured I still had some serious game.
    I was 36 even par in a pretty tough course .
    at lunch asked I asked him what he shot on the front.
    shot 30 mate he said.
    I didn’t believe him, went through his 9 in my head.... yup -6. Easy -6.
    obviously played a very different game than me.
    they just know how to score 
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