Vintage Golf and the Groove Rule

I asked a similar question in the new acquisitions thread, but figured I'd do a new topic and get some additional opinions.



All my fellow vintage gear fans, what do you plan to do in 2024 and beyond, when the USGA groove rule fully applies to amateurs and states the old equipment we love is ilegal and can no longer be used to post handicaps?



As a classic overthinker, I'm constantly worrying about what I'll do when that time comes. Will I feel the need to give up vintage gear to stay within the rules, or will I Iose the ability to keep a handicap and know I'm playing by the rules?



My only hope is that the USGA uses their predetermined 2020 evaluation period to decide the groove rule was unnecessary and reverse course. Otherwise, I'll need to make some tough decisions.

Comments

  • JiggeredJiggered Midlands UKMembers Posts: 458 ✭✭
    I don't plan to do anything.



    If someone questions my equipment in a competition I'll ask them to prove that they're non-complying.



    If the onus is officially on me to do that then I'll say that I can't prove it and leave them to make a decision. If they DQ me then so be it.



    If I end up without an official playing handicap then, again, so be it, I'll generate my own handicap using available software and just play with sensible people.



    To be honest though, I don't foresee an issue here, nobody will be bothered by some eccentrics playing ancient gear.

    The only way I could see a problem is if someone tries to make use of old clubs by deliberately optimising a set for most advantage, even to the extent of sharpening grooves etc. But that would be a blind alley as such clubs would still be far inferior in terms of distance and forgiveness of the latest "conforming" clubs.



    Also, in my experience vintage golfers aren't trophy hunters, we're all in it for the love of the game and of classic clubs.
    It's not all about the score.
  • stixmanstixman Hew to the line. Let the divots fall where they may. 1926 Golf I Members Posts: 1,828 ✭✭
    Agree with Jiggered above.



    These are UK centric comments which may have some resonance elsewhere.

    First, the BGCS has just announced it's revised Hickory Handicap criteria which are to be based on the new general handicap system about to come into force, largely indistinguishable from the US version. In 6 years it is quite possible that a Classic Club forum Handicap will be able to function similarly independantly.



    Secondly, at Morecambe GC annual meeting yesterday it was announced that the number of playing members with official handicaps had decreased from 440 to 370 in the year due to falling off in membership and players in my age group withdrawing from competitive golf, and we are much better off than most Clubs around here. It is inconceivable that our governing bodies are going shoot themselves in the foot and exclude more players for reasons of non-conforming equipment...it ain't gonna happen image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
    Vintage various.
  • Higgs66Higgs66 Members Posts: 43 ✭✭
    And players are still anchoring long putters
  • Bella WoodsBella Woods Bella Woods Members Posts: 1,171 ✭✭
    They could "create" a tiered handicap system, one for modern complying clubs and one for non-complying

    clubs (maybe broken down by vintage, hickory etc).



    If they try to marginalize the people that want to play clubs other than the newest ones, they are asking for

    trouble.......
  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Allez Allez Allez Minnesota, USAMembers Posts: 6,185 ✭✭
    What I will do is nothing, other than continuing to play my clubs. I don't particularly care what the USGA says regarding grooves, I find it to be the second dumbest move they've made, behind only the abject cluelessness of the anchored putting rule.



    Now, a general comment... square grooves only came into being in the mid-1980s. Anything prior to that point in time will have v grooves, and almost certainly be conforming to the new rule, unless the grooves have been altered, or the club regrooved. I would say one playing such an unaltered club should be able to play such sticks with a clear conscience.
    The Ever Changing Bag!

    Driver: Cobra King LTD, ProtoPype 80x or RIP 80x, 43.5" -or- SuperDeep 9.5*, ProtoPype 80x or NV85x, 43.5"
    3w: Cobra King LTD, Motore F1 85 X, 42.5"
    1 iron: Maxfli Revolution, DGS400
    2-PW, Golden Ram Tour Grind, Dynamic S
    SW: Ram Tour Grind Feel Matched 58*, DGS
    Putter: Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34.5", PP58 midsize grip
    (Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35" -or- Mizuno TPM-2, 35" as backups)
    Balls: in no particular order... Wilson Staff FG Tour, Duo Urethane, or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar/ZStar XV, Snell MTB Black... will trot out Maxfli HT-100 or Elite 90 from time to time
    Shoes by True Linkswear
  • KirasdadKirasdad Kirasdad Posts: 733 ✭✭
    NRJyzr wrote:


    What I will do is nothing, other than continuing to play my clubs. I don't particularly care what the USGA says regarding grooves, I find it to be the second dumbest move they've made, behind only the abject cluelessness of the anchored putting rule.



    Now, a general comment... square grooves only came into being in the mid-1980s. Anything prior to that point in time will have v grooves, and almost certainly be conforming to the new rule, unless the grooves have been altered, or the club regrooved. I would say one playing such an unaltered club should be able to play such sticks with a clear conscience.




    Yes, we’re only talking about...what maybe, twenty years or so? This will be a complete nonissue on the local level where I’ve played in hundreds of events, city championships and the like and no one has ever asked about anything regarding equipment. If you are one of the handful of golfers that is a serious USGA competitor, well you’ll have all the latest gear anyway so...nothing to see here.
    Current bag:
    Callaway BB 43.75” 10 degrees (actual 11 degree loft)
    PING G10 4 wood 17 degrees
    Sonatec 20 deg. hybrid
    Adams 25 degree 5 hybrid
    PING i20 6-PW
    Hogan SW 56
    Ray Cook mallet putter

    (Everything has a graphite shaft except for the putter, hey I’m 60 now, lightening the load)
  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,166 ✭✭
    Me personally I aint doing a **** thing. I could give two hoots and three hot damns less about the USGA the R&A or the PGA for that matter. I do not keep an handicap anyhow and am not going to play in a comp that requires one. Like Stix mentioned at his club also happened at my home course. In our case it got where no one period kept a handicap and they did away with the computer altogether for that. I do not know what the retired old farts league does or really care



    Now this may be complicated for some. The reason many of our classic clubs are non conforming is the fact they have not been submitted for testing. If they are NOT on the conforming list then they are deemed non conforming by default I guess. I have always contended and always will that clubs say for example any of my Macs or any Wilsons etc were conforming and approved by the USGA on the date of manufacture.



    Like I have said before I am going to play what clubs I want to USGA and R&A be dammed!!!!
    Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stock Regular shaft
    FW Adams Tight Lies 16* Diamana Reg
    Irons 3 thru 9 KZG Kyoei Forged CB 1st generation Swing Science 400 Graphite Senior flex
    PW Cleveland Special 588 45* bent to 47* Stock Cleveland Steel Shaft
    SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore S-300 ( old dependable)
    Putter- 1997 Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Bulls Eye fluted shaft rusty and lead taped as heck named "Rusty"
    Bag-- Jones Classic non stand
    Founding Father of Outlaw Golf Association member #1---- Play what you want **** the USGA & R&A
    Redneck Hippie Golf When the Tailgate drops the BS Stops
    Vintage
    Toney Penna Model 1 Aldila HM-40
    3&4 woods Macgregor DX Keyhole steel TT R
    Irons 2 thru 9 1954 Hogan Precision TT green or 1980 Macgregor VIP 3 thru PW Hogan Apex #2 shafts " The famous Bastardized Macs"
    PW Hogan White Cameo 50* Hogan Apex Wedge
    SW Macgregor LRA 56* S-400 DJ Special-- Will rotate out when old dependable does not behave
    Putter ( subject to change) Lil David 8802
    Bag Old School Power Bilt orange mini staff
  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,166 ✭✭
    Kirasdad wrote:

    NRJyzr wrote:


    What I will do is nothing, other than continuing to play my clubs. I don't particularly care what the USGA says regarding grooves, I find it to be the second dumbest move they've made, behind only the abject cluelessness of the anchored putting rule.



    Now, a general comment... square grooves only came into being in the mid-1980s. Anything prior to that point in time will have v grooves, and almost certainly be conforming to the new rule, unless the grooves have been altered, or the club regrooved. I would say one playing such an unaltered club should be able to play such sticks with a clear conscience.




    Yes, we’re only talking about...what maybe, twenty years or so? This will be a complete nonissue on the local level where I’ve played in hundreds of events, city championships and the like and no one has ever asked about anything regarding equipment. If you are one of the handful of golfers that is a serious USGA competitor, well you’ll have all the latest gear anyway so...nothing to see here.
    I do not know on the last part as childish as people seem to be now. If you beat someone bad with your old sticks and they are playing the greatest and latest look out. You know smart phones are fast and some folks know how to use them fast. But I do not play comp anymore and none of the groups I play with give 2 hoots what someone plays
    Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stock Regular shaft
    FW Adams Tight Lies 16* Diamana Reg
    Irons 3 thru 9 KZG Kyoei Forged CB 1st generation Swing Science 400 Graphite Senior flex
    PW Cleveland Special 588 45* bent to 47* Stock Cleveland Steel Shaft
    SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore S-300 ( old dependable)
    Putter- 1997 Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Bulls Eye fluted shaft rusty and lead taped as heck named "Rusty"
    Bag-- Jones Classic non stand
    Founding Father of Outlaw Golf Association member #1---- Play what you want **** the USGA & R&A
    Redneck Hippie Golf When the Tailgate drops the BS Stops
    Vintage
    Toney Penna Model 1 Aldila HM-40
    3&4 woods Macgregor DX Keyhole steel TT R
    Irons 2 thru 9 1954 Hogan Precision TT green or 1980 Macgregor VIP 3 thru PW Hogan Apex #2 shafts " The famous Bastardized Macs"
    PW Hogan White Cameo 50* Hogan Apex Wedge
    SW Macgregor LRA 56* S-400 DJ Special-- Will rotate out when old dependable does not behave
    Putter ( subject to change) Lil David 8802
    Bag Old School Power Bilt orange mini staff
  • deejaiddeejaid Members Posts: 461 ✭✭
    edited Mar 16, 2019 7:33pm #10
    BIG STU wrote:

    Kirasdad wrote:

    NRJyzr wrote:


    What I will do is nothing, other than continuing to play my clubs. I don't particularly care what the USGA says regarding grooves, I find it to be the second dumbest move they've made, behind only the abject cluelessness of the anchored putting rule.



    Now, a general comment... square grooves only came into being in the mid-1980s. Anything prior to that point in time will have v grooves, and almost certainly be conforming to the new rule, unless the grooves have been altered, or the club regrooved. I would say one playing such an unaltered club should be able to play such sticks with a clear conscience.




    Yes, we’re only talking about...what maybe, twenty years or so? This will be a complete nonissue on the local level where I’ve played in hundreds of events, city championships and the like and no one has ever asked about anything regarding equipment. If you are one of the handful of golfers that is a serious USGA competitor, well you’ll have all the latest gear anyway so...nothing to see here.
    I do not know on the last part as childish as people seem to be now. If you beat someone bad with your old sticks and they are playing the greatest and latest look out. You know smart phones are fast and some folks know how to use them fast. But I do not play comp anymore and none of the groups I play with give 2 hoots what someone plays




    Exactly. I’m showing up at the course with my bag, that’s what I’m gaming. If you want to wager, you accept what’s in my bag and I yours and we play. Non of this non-conforming b.s.



    Play what you got, and if you lose, don’t cry about what the other guys got in his bag.
    WITB
    Macgregor M09 driver
    Macgregor M85 Super Eye-O-Matic 3&4 woods
    1958 Wilson Dyna-Powered irons 2-PW
    1961 Wilson Sandy Andy
    Ping CU5 putter 
  • James the Hogan FanJames the Hogan Fan Members Posts: 349 ✭✭
    I bought Apex ’99’s because they are soon to be vintage, ****, and groove-legal. But I needed a new set anyway for all my golfing and decided those were the ones because they straddle the line of almost vintage but still perfectly suitable for modern play.



    Now as far as true vintage, in my humble opinion, if a player with his M69 twisted sister face (thanks stu!) and rocketyballz irons with the latest and greatest loses to a fellow with MT Colokroms, Eye-O-Matics, an Exploder, Sure-out and a Bullseye, I don’g think grooves were the problem.



    I think for the purposes of handicap, in my best minor league hockey heckler voice: who-CARES? Just don’t post the scores if you don’t want to, or post them. There’s enough BS in handicaps already I doubt illegal-grove scores will matter much anyway. It’s a game, meant to be enjoyed, and I have come to the opinion that handicaps ought to be based on competition rounds anyway...
    Golfing in Finland!
  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,166 ✭✭
    edited Mar 17, 2019 4:56am #12
    James you nailed it on all accounts. Yep 99 Hogan Apex appear on the conforming list simply because someone submitted a set for testing and they were legal and went on the conforming list. As far as amateur handicap golf they can keep it. When I got married the first time I had came back from Florida. My friend was a member at a Club in Charlotte. I went ahead and applied and was reinstated to Am Status. We both kept honest legit handicaps. Played in a few handicap tournaments. Everytime we played we got screwed by handicap cheats. Got screwed bad on a team event right here at the beach. It was a team best ball. we shot a legitimate 67 ( - 5) in the flight round. We had played the early round so we skipped off had some lunch and played a quick round at another course. Went back over there mid afternoon and found out we got blowed out of the water by quite a few 15 to 20 handicap teams. I mean man there were some 58s and 59s and this was no scramble. We did protest but to no avail. At the time both he and myself were hovering around scratch or so honestly. We ended up saying **** the event after we tried to make some straight up side bets for money and had no takers. We had our room paid for anyhow so we played the next 2 days at different courses.



    It is funny how I lost my AM status the second time--- Actually it is legit but sorta childish---- About 6 months after that we played in a big Scramble Calcutta with 2 other guys. It was bring your own team straight up play. There were a lot of big time gamblers and players in that one and it was big money. We had backers even though our team sold bottom tier. We played in 8 somes so there was no cheating. We ended up winning the darn thing and out team won I think 50K no joke. I ended up that fall being backed for a team in the big shootout in Vegas. The team ( same one) ended up placing 5th in the money and I do not know how much side money we won. This was the 1 million dollar shootout. Like I said we had a backer who is a multi millionaire that likes to gamble. I think our team won like 150 k there. Anyhow about 6 months later I got a letter from the USGA asking had I participated and taken prize money in those events? I wrote them back and told them honestly yes. I received another letter quick and I mean quick stating my amateur status had been forfeited. I asked my old man about that and he said that someone somewhere had told on me because none of the other guys on my team got a letter or anything. **** it I ended up going back to the minis anyhow. I do not like to get beat but have no problem with it if I play bad or get outplayed but to get cheated by the pencil before the first ball is struck **** that. But yeah now I do not play any comps or big money matches and do not really care.



    A couple of years back I had seriously entertained the thought of getting my AM status back and playing some Carolinas Golf Association AM events. It would have cost me $250 for the application to the USGA to even consider it. Besides the CGA plays off of handicap system so I said **** that. Besides I have enemies at the USGA because I have raised so much **** at them recently. I look one Sunday when I am playing my reduced bag walking rounds with (gasp!) non conforming vintage Mac or Hogan clubs of them sending a drone over #3 at my home course and shooting me down. I have dreams at night of a little guy in a USGA blazer sitting in the big water oak tree on #1 with a high powered rifle taking me out while I am hitting my approach shot with a vintage JP Wilson wedge. image/tomato.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tomato:' /> image/taunt.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':taunt:' /> image/swoon.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':swoon:' />
    Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stock Regular shaft
    FW Adams Tight Lies 16* Diamana Reg
    Irons 3 thru 9 KZG Kyoei Forged CB 1st generation Swing Science 400 Graphite Senior flex
    PW Cleveland Special 588 45* bent to 47* Stock Cleveland Steel Shaft
    SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore S-300 ( old dependable)
    Putter- 1997 Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Bulls Eye fluted shaft rusty and lead taped as heck named "Rusty"
    Bag-- Jones Classic non stand
    Founding Father of Outlaw Golf Association member #1---- Play what you want **** the USGA & R&A
    Redneck Hippie Golf When the Tailgate drops the BS Stops
    Vintage
    Toney Penna Model 1 Aldila HM-40
    3&4 woods Macgregor DX Keyhole steel TT R
    Irons 2 thru 9 1954 Hogan Precision TT green or 1980 Macgregor VIP 3 thru PW Hogan Apex #2 shafts " The famous Bastardized Macs"
    PW Hogan White Cameo 50* Hogan Apex Wedge
    SW Macgregor LRA 56* S-400 DJ Special-- Will rotate out when old dependable does not behave
    Putter ( subject to change) Lil David 8802
    Bag Old School Power Bilt orange mini staff
  • James the Hogan FanJames the Hogan Fan Members Posts: 349 ✭✭
    Well Am-status is all f’d up too. Only in golf is winning a little money enough to make you a ”professional”. I hold a few positions in the market, does that make me a professional day trader? If I defend a speeding ticket successfully, does that make me a professional lawyer?



    But hey you missed the cut at the Mayflower Cup Open and forgot to fill out the am-waiver pre-tourney. Golf is now your profession as far as the blue blazers are concerned!



    Now stu you’ve played for nutso levels of gambling cash and I don’t know what your perspective is on it, but I don’t think the USGA should be involved in those bets; that’s outside the world of tournament golf. (On the other hand, do those guys have an advantage in am competitions when they’re used to matches for multiple thousands a hole? Maybe they do)



    I get that its hard to regulate, and where do you draw the line? I just think the current ”no money, bad bad golfer!” Is outdated and another thing that annoys me with them. The only thing left is for the turf research section to **** me off. I really appreciate the idea and mission of the USGA; I just feel they go about it in the worst ways sometimes.
    Golfing in Finland!
  • divot makerdivot maker Members Posts: 3

    I might write a sob story to the RandA saying how in the competitions for people with disabilities such as Special Olympics which are run using the rules of golf, most of the people in my area that I know and play in these events won't be able to as they have sets from garage sales, swapmeets, charity shops and the like. These sets very rarely have any clubs post 2010 let alone a set of irons and wedges, so are only a few of us allowed to play because elite players were deemed to have spun the ball too much?

    Hopefully sense will be seen and at the very least regular club golfers can use 25 year old irons and wedges if they want.

  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,166 ✭✭

    @divot maker said:
    I might write a sob story to the RandA saying how in the competitions for people with disabilities such as Special Olympics which are run using the rules of golf, most of the people in my area that I know and play in these events won't be able to as they have sets from garage sales, swapmeets, charity shops and the like. These sets very rarely have any clubs post 2010 let alone a set of irons and wedges, so are only a few of us allowed to play because elite players were deemed to have spun the ball too much?

    Hopefully sense will be seen and at the very least regular club golfers can use 25 year old irons and wedges if they want.

    Yes there is a solution and in the mainstream of WRX you will get some flack--- A committee or staff at a club can create a "local rule" Several clubs here did it over the anchored putter ban for league play. Our area has a lot of retirees and they play leagues etc. A lot of the guys were going to quit the game all together over the anchor ban---- The clubs rightfully so decided this would affect their bottom line so they voted to disregard the ban. In the case you cited the Special Olympics could have their Competition Committee stipulate that the older equipment is legal for play. Besides I am sure some of the SO players have to have clubs modified to meet their needs which is entirely legal under USGA rules.

    Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stock Regular shaft
    FW Adams Tight Lies 16* Diamana Reg
    Irons 3 thru 9 KZG Kyoei Forged CB 1st generation Swing Science 400 Graphite Senior flex
    PW Cleveland Special 588 45* bent to 47* Stock Cleveland Steel Shaft
    SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore S-300 ( old dependable)
    Putter- 1997 Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Bulls Eye fluted shaft rusty and lead taped as heck named "Rusty"
    Bag-- Jones Classic non stand
    Founding Father of Outlaw Golf Association member #1---- Play what you want **** the USGA & R&A
    Redneck Hippie Golf When the Tailgate drops the BS Stops
    Vintage
    Toney Penna Model 1 Aldila HM-40
    3&4 woods Macgregor DX Keyhole steel TT R
    Irons 2 thru 9 1954 Hogan Precision TT green or 1980 Macgregor VIP 3 thru PW Hogan Apex #2 shafts " The famous Bastardized Macs"
    PW Hogan White Cameo 50* Hogan Apex Wedge
    SW Macgregor LRA 56* S-400 DJ Special-- Will rotate out when old dependable does not behave
    Putter ( subject to change) Lil David 8802
    Bag Old School Power Bilt orange mini staff
  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,166 ✭✭

    @James the Hogan Fan said:
    Well Am-status is all f’d up too. Only in golf is winning a little money enough to make you a ”professional”. I hold a few positions in the market, does that make me a professional day trader? If I defend a speeding ticket successfully, does that make me a professional lawyer?

    But hey you missed the cut at the Mayflower Cup Open and forgot to fill out the am-waiver pre-tourney. Golf is now your profession as far as the blue blazers are concerned!

    Now stu you’ve played for nutso levels of gambling cash and I don’t know what your perspective is on it, but I don’t think the USGA should be involved in those bets; that’s outside the world of tournament golf. (On the other hand, do those guys have an advantage in am competitions when they’re used to matches for multiple thousands a hole? Maybe they do)

    I get that its hard to regulate, and where do you draw the line? I just think the current ”no money, bad bad golfer!” Is outdated and another thing that annoys me with them. The only thing left is for the turf research section to **** me off. I really appreciate the idea and mission of the USGA; I just feel they go about it in the worst ways sometimes.

    I can tell you something about that and it is pure hypocrisy. About 10 years ago a friend of mine won a full Callaway set staff bag and all in a tournament of real estate people he lost his am status. If you win one of those 1 Mil hole in one contests you lose your Am status---- Now one year a lady here during the World AM Handicap tournament had a HIO and won a condo valued at 350k--- Guess what? she did not lose her AM status . She played in it the next year. So tell me WTF???

    Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stock Regular shaft
    FW Adams Tight Lies 16* Diamana Reg
    Irons 3 thru 9 KZG Kyoei Forged CB 1st generation Swing Science 400 Graphite Senior flex
    PW Cleveland Special 588 45* bent to 47* Stock Cleveland Steel Shaft
    SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore S-300 ( old dependable)
    Putter- 1997 Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Bulls Eye fluted shaft rusty and lead taped as heck named "Rusty"
    Bag-- Jones Classic non stand
    Founding Father of Outlaw Golf Association member #1---- Play what you want **** the USGA & R&A
    Redneck Hippie Golf When the Tailgate drops the BS Stops
    Vintage
    Toney Penna Model 1 Aldila HM-40
    3&4 woods Macgregor DX Keyhole steel TT R
    Irons 2 thru 9 1954 Hogan Precision TT green or 1980 Macgregor VIP 3 thru PW Hogan Apex #2 shafts " The famous Bastardized Macs"
    PW Hogan White Cameo 50* Hogan Apex Wedge
    SW Macgregor LRA 56* S-400 DJ Special-- Will rotate out when old dependable does not behave
    Putter ( subject to change) Lil David 8802
    Bag Old School Power Bilt orange mini staff
  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,166 ✭✭

    @James the Hogan Fan said:
    Well Am-status is all f’d up too. Only in golf is winning a little money enough to make you a ”professional”. I hold a few positions in the market, does that make me a professional day trader? If I defend a speeding ticket successfully, does that make me a professional lawyer?

    But hey you missed the cut at the Mayflower Cup Open and forgot to fill out the am-waiver pre-tourney. Golf is now your profession as far as the blue blazers are concerned!

    Now stu you’ve played for nutso levels of gambling cash and I don’t know what your perspective is on it, but I don’t think the USGA should be involved in those bets; that’s outside the world of tournament golf. (On the other hand, do those guys have an advantage in am competitions when they’re used to matches for multiple thousands a hole? Maybe they do)

    I get that its hard to regulate, and where do you draw the line? I just think the current ”no money, bad bad golfer!” Is outdated and another thing that annoys me with them. The only thing left is for the turf research section to **** me off. I really appreciate the idea and mission of the USGA; I just feel they go about it in the worst ways sometimes.

    If you read the rules of Am status it is sorta crazy--- For example there is supposedly no violation of say a few friends playing for a few bucks but------ it does not state a dollar amount----- Now it gets real stipulated about Calcutta Auctions and the like---- I know I darn near lost my AM status in High School--- There was a bunch of us that were running a Calcutta on school golf matches with side bets and a skins game. Someone told on us and when the Athletic Association investigated they found out darn near everyone of us were involved including some players from high class families. LOL it got brushed under the rug rather quickly---- I know for a fact 3 of the players ( and I ain't telling names) ended up briefly playing the PGA Tour--- And those 3 guys were in it as bad as the rest of us. I will admit it was a direct violation of USGA rules and the AAA rules at the time but there was no big money involved. I think some had a knee jerk reaction because about 6 of us our old men were professional golf hustlers and bookies.

    Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stock Regular shaft
    FW Adams Tight Lies 16* Diamana Reg
    Irons 3 thru 9 KZG Kyoei Forged CB 1st generation Swing Science 400 Graphite Senior flex
    PW Cleveland Special 588 45* bent to 47* Stock Cleveland Steel Shaft
    SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore S-300 ( old dependable)
    Putter- 1997 Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Bulls Eye fluted shaft rusty and lead taped as heck named "Rusty"
    Bag-- Jones Classic non stand
    Founding Father of Outlaw Golf Association member #1---- Play what you want **** the USGA & R&A
    Redneck Hippie Golf When the Tailgate drops the BS Stops
    Vintage
    Toney Penna Model 1 Aldila HM-40
    3&4 woods Macgregor DX Keyhole steel TT R
    Irons 2 thru 9 1954 Hogan Precision TT green or 1980 Macgregor VIP 3 thru PW Hogan Apex #2 shafts " The famous Bastardized Macs"
    PW Hogan White Cameo 50* Hogan Apex Wedge
    SW Macgregor LRA 56* S-400 DJ Special-- Will rotate out when old dependable does not behave
    Putter ( subject to change) Lil David 8802
    Bag Old School Power Bilt orange mini staff
  • No_Catchy_NicknameNo_Catchy_Nickname Kyushu,_JapanMembers Posts: 5,085 ✭✭

    @NRJyzr said:
    What I will do is nothing, other than continuing to play my clubs. I don't particularly care what the USGA says regarding grooves, I find it to be the second dumbest move they've made, behind only the abject cluelessness of the anchored putting rule.

    Now, a general comment... square grooves only came into being in the mid-1980s. Anything prior to that point in time will have v grooves, and almost certainly be conforming to the new rule, unless the grooves have been altered, or the club regrooved. I would say one playing such an unaltered club should be able to play such sticks with a clear conscience.

    I'm going to have to disagree with you there, NRJ.
    I think the groove rule is the dumbest rule they've made, followed by the anchored putting rule, simply because the groove rule affects pretty much every golfer.

    Driver: Ping G400 Tour 65S
    4w: TaylorMade R9 stock Fujikura Motore X flex
    7w TaylorMade V-steel, Quadra Fire Express RB 6SX
    Hybrid: RomaRo iBrid 23* Attas EZ 85S
    Irons (4i-PW): Wilson fg-62 S300 4/5-PW or MP4 Yoro Modus 125X 5-PW
    Wedges: Callaway MD2 T-grind combination of 52*, 56*, 58*, 60*
    Putter: Mac Jack Nicklaus Muirfield

    Old stuff: Tons of persimmon and older irons. 
  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Allez Allez Allez Minnesota, USAMembers Posts: 6,185 ✭✭

    @No Catchy Nickname said:

    @NRJyzr said:
    What I will do is nothing, other than continuing to play my clubs. I don't particularly care what the USGA says regarding grooves, I find it to be the second dumbest move they've made, behind only the abject cluelessness of the anchored putting rule.

    Now, a general comment... square grooves only came into being in the mid-1980s. Anything prior to that point in time will have v grooves, and almost certainly be conforming to the new rule, unless the grooves have been altered, or the club regrooved. I would say one playing such an unaltered club should be able to play such sticks with a clear conscience.

    I'm going to have to disagree with you there, NRJ.
    I think the groove rule is the dumbest rule they've made, followed by the anchored putting rule, simply because the groove rule affects pretty much every golfer.

    Can't really disagree too much, Catchy. It's six of one and a half dozen of the other. :)

    The Ever Changing Bag!

    Driver: Cobra King LTD, ProtoPype 80x or RIP 80x, 43.5" -or- SuperDeep 9.5*, ProtoPype 80x or NV85x, 43.5"
    3w: Cobra King LTD, Motore F1 85 X, 42.5"
    1 iron: Maxfli Revolution, DGS400
    2-PW, Golden Ram Tour Grind, Dynamic S
    SW: Ram Tour Grind Feel Matched 58*, DGS
    Putter: Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34.5", PP58 midsize grip
    (Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35" -or- Mizuno TPM-2, 35" as backups)
    Balls: in no particular order... Wilson Staff FG Tour, Duo Urethane, or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar/ZStar XV, Snell MTB Black... will trot out Maxfli HT-100 or Elite 90 from time to time
    Shoes by True Linkswear
  • No_Catchy_NicknameNo_Catchy_Nickname Kyushu,_JapanMembers Posts: 5,085 ✭✭

    @NRJyzr said:

    @No Catchy Nickname said:

    @NRJyzr said:
    What I will do is nothing, other than continuing to play my clubs. I don't particularly care what the USGA says regarding grooves, I find it to be the second dumbest move they've made, behind only the abject cluelessness of the anchored putting rule.

    Now, a general comment... square grooves only came into being in the mid-1980s. Anything prior to that point in time will have v grooves, and almost certainly be conforming to the new rule, unless the grooves have been altered, or the club regrooved. I would say one playing such an unaltered club should be able to play such sticks with a clear conscience.

    I'm going to have to disagree with you there, NRJ.
    I think the groove rule is the dumbest rule they've made, followed by the anchored putting rule, simply because the groove rule affects pretty much every golfer.

    Can't really disagree too much, Catchy. It's six of one and a half dozen of the other. :)

    Absolutely.
    One thing the both examples have in common is that the technology that got banned had already been around for at over 20 years. I remember seeing broom handle putters being used the late Eighties (and I wouldn't be surprised if some eccentric Victorian bloke had experimented with them back in 1887; what goes around comes around). In other words, the powers that be let the technology get established, let it become a norm...and then banned it.

    Driver: Ping G400 Tour 65S
    4w: TaylorMade R9 stock Fujikura Motore X flex
    7w TaylorMade V-steel, Quadra Fire Express RB 6SX
    Hybrid: RomaRo iBrid 23* Attas EZ 85S
    Irons (4i-PW): Wilson fg-62 S300 4/5-PW or MP4 Yoro Modus 125X 5-PW
    Wedges: Callaway MD2 T-grind combination of 52*, 56*, 58*, 60*
    Putter: Mac Jack Nicklaus Muirfield

    Old stuff: Tons of persimmon and older irons. 
  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Allez Allez Allez Minnesota, USAMembers Posts: 6,185 ✭✭

    @No Catchy Nickname said:

    @NRJyzr said:

    @No Catchy Nickname said:

    @NRJyzr said:
    What I will do is nothing, other than continuing to play my clubs. I don't particularly care what the USGA says regarding grooves, I find it to be the second dumbest move they've made, behind only the abject cluelessness of the anchored putting rule.

    Now, a general comment... square grooves only came into being in the mid-1980s. Anything prior to that point in time will have v grooves, and almost certainly be conforming to the new rule, unless the grooves have been altered, or the club regrooved. I would say one playing such an unaltered club should be able to play such sticks with a clear conscience.

    I'm going to have to disagree with you there, NRJ.
    I think the groove rule is the dumbest rule they've made, followed by the anchored putting rule, simply because the groove rule affects pretty much every golfer.

    Can't really disagree too much, Catchy. It's six of one and a half dozen of the other. :)

    Absolutely.
    One thing the both examples have in common is that the technology that got banned had already been around for at over 20 years. I remember seeing broom handle putters being used the late Eighties (and I wouldn't be surprised if some eccentric Victorian bloke had experimented with them back in 1887; what goes around comes around). In other words, the powers that be let the technology get established, let it become a norm...and then banned it.

    When the anchored putting ban came thru, a friend posted on another forum about seeing a player anchoring his putter in the Open Championship. In the late 60s.

    Suddenly now it's a bad thing?

    Yeah, I don't buy it.

    The Ever Changing Bag!

    Driver: Cobra King LTD, ProtoPype 80x or RIP 80x, 43.5" -or- SuperDeep 9.5*, ProtoPype 80x or NV85x, 43.5"
    3w: Cobra King LTD, Motore F1 85 X, 42.5"
    1 iron: Maxfli Revolution, DGS400
    2-PW, Golden Ram Tour Grind, Dynamic S
    SW: Ram Tour Grind Feel Matched 58*, DGS
    Putter: Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34.5", PP58 midsize grip
    (Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35" -or- Mizuno TPM-2, 35" as backups)
    Balls: in no particular order... Wilson Staff FG Tour, Duo Urethane, or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar/ZStar XV, Snell MTB Black... will trot out Maxfli HT-100 or Elite 90 from time to time
    Shoes by True Linkswear
  • James the Hogan FanJames the Hogan Fan Members Posts: 349 ✭✭

    @BIG STU said:

    @James the Hogan Fan said:
    Well Am-status is all f’d up too. Only in golf is winning a little money enough to make you a ”professional”. I hold a few positions in the market, does that make me a professional day trader? If I defend a speeding ticket successfully, does that make me a professional lawyer?

    But hey you missed the cut at the Mayflower Cup Open and forgot to fill out the am-waiver pre-tourney. Golf is now your profession as far as the blue blazers are concerned!

    Now stu you’ve played for nutso levels of gambling cash and I don’t know what your perspective is on it, but I don’t think the USGA should be involved in those bets; that’s outside the world of tournament golf. (On the other hand, do those guys have an advantage in am competitions when they’re used to matches for multiple thousands a hole? Maybe they do)

    I get that its hard to regulate, and where do you draw the line? I just think the current ”no money, bad bad golfer!” Is outdated and another thing that annoys me with them. The only thing left is for the turf research section to **** me off. I really appreciate the idea and mission of the USGA; I just feel they go about it in the worst ways sometimes.

    If you read the rules of Am status it is sorta crazy--- For example there is supposedly no violation of say a few friends playing for a few bucks but------ it does not state a dollar amount----- Now it gets real stipulated about Calcutta Auctions and the like---- I know I darn near lost my AM status in High School--- There was a bunch of us that were running a Calcutta on school golf matches with side bets and a skins game. Someone told on us and when the Athletic Association investigated they found out darn near everyone of us were involved including some players from high class families. LOL it got brushed under the rug rather quickly---- I know for a fact 3 of the players ( and I ain't telling names) ended up briefly playing the PGA Tour--- And those 3 guys were in it as bad as the rest of us. I will admit it was a direct violation of USGA rules and the AAA rules at the time but there was no big money involved. I think some had a knee jerk reaction because about 6 of us our old men were professional golf hustlers and bookies.

    In your experience, what’s the greatest payoff to stake ratio you’ve seen in betting? Are these bets generally 1:1? (My idea of a classic bet; 2 guys playing straight stroke play of say $100 vs $100, I’m just not sure how calcuttas and the like work.) I just feel like, in general, pro tourneys like the US open pay $1.5Mil against a $150 or so entry fee, a 10,000:1 payoff. In the simple bet above, each player risks as much as he could gain. I know it gets complicated with backers and hustlers and different wager pools and so on, and I don’t know if it’s like pool where there is more money in big-time matches than sanctioned tournaments, but it seems like in betting land the amount of skin one has in the game is a lot closer to the potential payoff than in tournaments.

    It’s a tricky thing to regulate.

    Golfing in Finland!
  • twidenertwidener TWidener Posts: 116 ✭✭

    I'll play with whatever clubs I like that day. I gave up competitive golf about 40 years ago after I got married and work was taking up lots of time. Didn't have the time anymore to keep my game in shape for USGA competitions so I played in Best Ball tournaments with friends for a few years. When I play now I usually play as a single and can use my persimmon woods and my Hogan or Staff irons from the 1960's. I have fun with those clubs and still shoot in the mid-70's. I will take out my "newest" clubs sometimes. A 905R and MP 32's. My scores are about the same as with the older clubs. I grew up playing those older clubs and feel comfortable with them. 2024 won't have any effect on what clubs I'll use.

  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,166 ✭✭

    @James the Hogan Fan said:

    @BIG STU said:

    @James the Hogan Fan said:
    Well Am-status is all f’d up too. Only in golf is winning a little money enough to make you a ”professional”. I hold a few positions in the market, does that make me a professional day trader? If I defend a speeding ticket successfully, does that make me a professional lawyer?

    But hey you missed the cut at the Mayflower Cup Open and forgot to fill out the am-waiver pre-tourney. Golf is now your profession as far as the blue blazers are concerned!

    Now stu you’ve played for nutso levels of gambling cash and I don’t know what your perspective is on it, but I don’t think the USGA should be involved in those bets; that’s outside the world of tournament golf. (On the other hand, do those guys have an advantage in am competitions when they’re used to matches for multiple thousands a hole? Maybe they do)

    I get that its hard to regulate, and where do you draw the line? I just think the current ”no money, bad bad golfer!” Is outdated and another thing that annoys me with them. The only thing left is for the turf research section to **** me off. I really appreciate the idea and mission of the USGA; I just feel they go about it in the worst ways sometimes.

    If you read the rules of Am status it is sorta crazy--- For example there is supposedly no violation of say a few friends playing for a few bucks but------ it does not state a dollar amount----- Now it gets real stipulated about Calcutta Auctions and the like---- I know I darn near lost my AM status in High School--- There was a bunch of us that were running a Calcutta on school golf matches with side bets and a skins game. Someone told on us and when the Athletic Association investigated they found out darn near everyone of us were involved including some players from high class families. LOL it got brushed under the rug rather quickly---- I know for a fact 3 of the players ( and I ain't telling names) ended up briefly playing the PGA Tour--- And those 3 guys were in it as bad as the rest of us. I will admit it was a direct violation of USGA rules and the AAA rules at the time but there was no big money involved. I think some had a knee jerk reaction because about 6 of us our old men were professional golf hustlers and bookies.

    In your experience, what’s the greatest payoff to stake ratio you’ve seen in betting? Are these bets generally 1:1? (My idea of a classic bet; 2 guys playing straight stroke play of say $100 vs $100, I’m just not sure how calcuttas and the like work.) I just feel like, in general, pro tourneys like the US open pay $1.5Mil against a $150 or so entry fee, a 10,000:1 payoff. In the simple bet above, each player risks as much as he could gain. I know it gets complicated with backers and hustlers and different wager pools and so on, and I don’t know if it’s like pool where there is more money in big-time matches than sanctioned tournaments, but it seems like in betting land the amount of skin one has in the game is a lot closer to the potential payoff than in tournaments.

    It’s a tricky thing to regulate.

    Basically I have seen a lot of different percentages. One that sticks in my mind in a Calcutta auction when some of the favorite teams went for $2500 or more our team of basically unknowns went for $50. We finished 3rd in a field of 25 teams. I think our payoff was 8 or 10 k. Back in my old man's day there was more money in big time money matches than the Tour payed. In fact the famous Vegas shootout had a potential payout of darn near any PGA Tour Event in the 70s. Actually that led to the PGA Tour prohibiting any of it's card carrying members from playing in the event. Actually big names in the 60s and 70s like Palmer, Player and Nicklaus made more money off endorsements and off season non official events than they did regular tour money. The Tiger era ( like him or not) ushered in the beginning of big money on the tour

    Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stock Regular shaft
    FW Adams Tight Lies 16* Diamana Reg
    Irons 3 thru 9 KZG Kyoei Forged CB 1st generation Swing Science 400 Graphite Senior flex
    PW Cleveland Special 588 45* bent to 47* Stock Cleveland Steel Shaft
    SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore S-300 ( old dependable)
    Putter- 1997 Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Bulls Eye fluted shaft rusty and lead taped as heck named "Rusty"
    Bag-- Jones Classic non stand
    Founding Father of Outlaw Golf Association member #1---- Play what you want **** the USGA & R&A
    Redneck Hippie Golf When the Tailgate drops the BS Stops
    Vintage
    Toney Penna Model 1 Aldila HM-40
    3&4 woods Macgregor DX Keyhole steel TT R
    Irons 2 thru 9 1954 Hogan Precision TT green or 1980 Macgregor VIP 3 thru PW Hogan Apex #2 shafts " The famous Bastardized Macs"
    PW Hogan White Cameo 50* Hogan Apex Wedge
    SW Macgregor LRA 56* S-400 DJ Special-- Will rotate out when old dependable does not behave
    Putter ( subject to change) Lil David 8802
    Bag Old School Power Bilt orange mini staff
  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,166 ✭✭

    @twidener said:
    I'll play with whatever clubs I like that day. I gave up competitive golf about 40 years ago after I got married and work was taking up lots of time. Didn't have the time anymore to keep my game in shape for USGA competitions so I played in Best Ball tournaments with friends for a few years. When I play now I usually play as a single and can use my persimmon woods and my Hogan or Staff irons from the 1960's. I have fun with those clubs and still shoot in the mid-70's. I will take out my "newest" clubs sometimes. A 905R and MP 32's. My scores are about the same as with the older clubs. I grew up playing those older clubs and feel comfortable with them. 2024 won't have any effect on what clubs I'll use.

    You basically did what I did about 10 years ago now---- I hardly practice anymore--- If you see me on the range hitting balls I am usually dialing in a club or set of clubs I found on the scrap pile at work---- When I play it is usually on a whim as to what equipment I use that day--- Good example Sunday after church I was on the range with a set of ( gasp) Eye 2s I found the other week. I had bent them up to my specs ( LOL who says you can not bend up a set of Eye2s?) They hit pretty well but not as good as the set of KZG CBs with 5.5 Rifle shafts I traded for the other day. I may not play Saturday but if I do I will decide on Saturday morning what sticks I play It could be anything from my 57 Mac Diamondbacks , VIPS , Muirfields ( 3 sets) or my 54 Hogan Precisions. Heck I may play the eye2s. Like you 2024 will have absolutely no effect on what I play. I play what I want to play and I could give two hoots and 3 hot damns less about the USGA , The R&A or the PGA.

    Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stock Regular shaft
    FW Adams Tight Lies 16* Diamana Reg
    Irons 3 thru 9 KZG Kyoei Forged CB 1st generation Swing Science 400 Graphite Senior flex
    PW Cleveland Special 588 45* bent to 47* Stock Cleveland Steel Shaft
    SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore S-300 ( old dependable)
    Putter- 1997 Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Bulls Eye fluted shaft rusty and lead taped as heck named "Rusty"
    Bag-- Jones Classic non stand
    Founding Father of Outlaw Golf Association member #1---- Play what you want **** the USGA & R&A
    Redneck Hippie Golf When the Tailgate drops the BS Stops
    Vintage
    Toney Penna Model 1 Aldila HM-40
    3&4 woods Macgregor DX Keyhole steel TT R
    Irons 2 thru 9 1954 Hogan Precision TT green or 1980 Macgregor VIP 3 thru PW Hogan Apex #2 shafts " The famous Bastardized Macs"
    PW Hogan White Cameo 50* Hogan Apex Wedge
    SW Macgregor LRA 56* S-400 DJ Special-- Will rotate out when old dependable does not behave
    Putter ( subject to change) Lil David 8802
    Bag Old School Power Bilt orange mini staff
  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,166 ✭✭

    @No Catchy Nickname said:

    @NRJyzr said:

    @No Catchy Nickname said:

    @NRJyzr said:
    What I will do is nothing, other than continuing to play my clubs. I don't particularly care what the USGA says regarding grooves, I find it to be the second dumbest move they've made, behind only the abject cluelessness of the anchored putting rule.

    Now, a general comment... square grooves only came into being in the mid-1980s. Anything prior to that point in time will have v grooves, and almost certainly be conforming to the new rule, unless the grooves have been altered, or the club regrooved. I would say one playing such an unaltered club should be able to play such sticks with a clear conscience.

    I'm going to have to disagree with you there, NRJ.
    I think the groove rule is the dumbest rule they've made, followed by the anchored putting rule, simply because the groove rule affects pretty much every golfer.

    Can't really disagree too much, Catchy. It's six of one and a half dozen of the other. :)

    Absolutely.
    One thing the both examples have in common is that the technology that got banned had already been around for at over 20 years. I remember seeing broom handle putters being used the late Eighties (and I wouldn't be surprised if some eccentric Victorian bloke had experimented with them back in 1887; what goes around comes around). In other words, the powers that be let the technology get established, let it become a norm...and then banned it.

    I can remember around 90 or so a knockoff company in Charlotte called Jack Pace golf had a broomstick putter. Do not remember the head style. I remember it was like 20 bucks or so. I bought one to experiment with and quite a few people tried it on the practice green. Back around 05 or so I thought I had the yips and used a Ping B-69 i which was a broomstick putter. It looks like a big banana. Putted with it on and off for a few months. Still have it because you never know . I can remember someone putted with a broomstick putter on the European Tour in the 70s. That last sentence says it all. I have always contended that 99% of all our classic clubs were legal to USGA specs on the date of manufacture. I guess the USGA and R&A has never heard of "Grandfather Clauses" As in the groove rule and anchored putters both were legal for at least 20 years then "BOOM" Well some grooves were legal for 60 years or more ( ie: 54 Precisions)

    Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stock Regular shaft
    FW Adams Tight Lies 16* Diamana Reg
    Irons 3 thru 9 KZG Kyoei Forged CB 1st generation Swing Science 400 Graphite Senior flex
    PW Cleveland Special 588 45* bent to 47* Stock Cleveland Steel Shaft
    SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore S-300 ( old dependable)
    Putter- 1997 Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Bulls Eye fluted shaft rusty and lead taped as heck named "Rusty"
    Bag-- Jones Classic non stand
    Founding Father of Outlaw Golf Association member #1---- Play what you want **** the USGA & R&A
    Redneck Hippie Golf When the Tailgate drops the BS Stops
    Vintage
    Toney Penna Model 1 Aldila HM-40
    3&4 woods Macgregor DX Keyhole steel TT R
    Irons 2 thru 9 1954 Hogan Precision TT green or 1980 Macgregor VIP 3 thru PW Hogan Apex #2 shafts " The famous Bastardized Macs"
    PW Hogan White Cameo 50* Hogan Apex Wedge
    SW Macgregor LRA 56* S-400 DJ Special-- Will rotate out when old dependable does not behave
    Putter ( subject to change) Lil David 8802
    Bag Old School Power Bilt orange mini staff
  • scomac2002scomac2002 Inside the Starters' Hut Members Posts: 5,416 ✭✭

    @BIG STU it's just all politics. No different than FIFA or the IOC. Somebody got their palms greased in order to get the changes to the rules made. It's the only explanation why something that was legal for years becomes illegal...

    Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!
    _____________________________________

    Titleist 913 D2 12°
    Cobra Baffler Rail F 15.5°/20°
    TM '09 Rescue 25°
    TM Burner Plus 6-AW
    TM Z Spin 56°
    Rossa Tourismo 3 counterbalanced 37"
  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,166 ✭✭

    @scomac2002 said:
    @BIG STU it's just all politics. No different than FIFA or the IOC. Somebody got their palms greased in order to get the changes to the rules made. It's the only explanation why something that was legal for years becomes illegal...

    I agree 110% I have said all along that the USGA was " in bed" with all the manufacturers except Ping but now that Karsten passed they got his son John to go to the courts and have the injunction making Ping wedges legal dropped. Yep it is all about the mighty dollar.

    Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stock Regular shaft
    FW Adams Tight Lies 16* Diamana Reg
    Irons 3 thru 9 KZG Kyoei Forged CB 1st generation Swing Science 400 Graphite Senior flex
    PW Cleveland Special 588 45* bent to 47* Stock Cleveland Steel Shaft
    SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore S-300 ( old dependable)
    Putter- 1997 Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Bulls Eye fluted shaft rusty and lead taped as heck named "Rusty"
    Bag-- Jones Classic non stand
    Founding Father of Outlaw Golf Association member #1---- Play what you want **** the USGA & R&A
    Redneck Hippie Golf When the Tailgate drops the BS Stops
    Vintage
    Toney Penna Model 1 Aldila HM-40
    3&4 woods Macgregor DX Keyhole steel TT R
    Irons 2 thru 9 1954 Hogan Precision TT green or 1980 Macgregor VIP 3 thru PW Hogan Apex #2 shafts " The famous Bastardized Macs"
    PW Hogan White Cameo 50* Hogan Apex Wedge
    SW Macgregor LRA 56* S-400 DJ Special-- Will rotate out when old dependable does not behave
    Putter ( subject to change) Lil David 8802
    Bag Old School Power Bilt orange mini staff
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