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I hate the "Leaving the flag in" rule

 jmtbkr ·  
jmtbkrjmtbkr Palm Beach Gardens 801WRX Points: 100Handicap: 11Members Posts: 801
Joined:  edited Mar 30, 2019 in Rules of Golf and Etiquette #1

Stupid rule!
I personally pull each time I putt. I understand why some like it.
Doesn't seem to speed the game along at all. Mostly, it ruins the carefully sculpted hole from people who try to pull the ball out without decent finger dexterity. We have alot of senior members at my club and many have problems retrieving the ball, use ball grabbers on the end of their putters and severely dent the cup edges.
Who came up with this idea? they should be hung by their shorthairs!

Posted:
Post edited by Buzzkill on
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  • sui generissui generis  4368WRX Points: 709Members Posts: 4,368
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    On -, @BrianMcG said:

    This is the first I have heard. Was there a rule change?

    He might be just catching up with the 1956 Rules change.

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  • MarkripMarkrip Boss fan 62  1750WRX Points: 270Members Posts: 1,750
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    I’ve played twice this week and tried it both ways. It didn’t seem to be that different for me.

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  • RainShadowRainShadow Tucson AZ (for now) 4056WRX Points: 412Handicap: 8.7Members Posts: 4,056
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    Doesn't speed up play, especially if some in the group like it out and others in.

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  • TIM929TIM929 Los Angeles 1273WRX Points: 729Handicap: 11.1Members Posts: 1,273
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    Awkward moment for whoever's closest to the flag... To pull or not to pull?

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  • CAT GOLFERCAT GOLFER  979WRX Points: 126Members Posts: 979
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    i, personally, feel this will speed up my rounds when I play alone, and think it would be the same for others doing the same. I also, agree that having a mixed group does slow things down.

    Posted:
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  • sbjinxsbjinx Orange County 2522WRX Points: 234Members Posts: 2,522
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    If people are using ball grabbers with the flag still in they should be hung by their short hair. I’ve played plenty of rounds this year with the flag in and everyone I’ve played with seem to like the new rule.

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  • SBH9458SBH9458 Go Army! Beat Navy!  1195WRX Points: 170Handicap: ClimbingMembers Posts: 1,195
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    Doesn’t seem to make much difference to me when I play 9 alone, but it tends to speed things up when others are also on the green!!!

    Posted:
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user Florida 6510WRX Points: 1,018Handicap: 4.9Members Posts: 6,510
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  • ThinkingPlusThinkingPlus South Texas 2123WRX Points: 975Handicap: +0.6ClubWRX Posts: 2,123
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    On -, @CAT GOLFER said:

    i, personally, feel this will speed up my rounds when I play alone, and think it would be the same for others doing the same. I also, agree that having a mixed group does slow things down.

    You have been able to leave the pin in when playing as a single ever since the RBs disallowed singles posting scores for handicap purposes. As far as the RBs are concerned playing as a single is "practicing" by definition. You can do anything you want.

    Posted:
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  • playmuchplaymuch  977WRX Points: 95Members Posts: 977
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    100% has quickened my rounds this year. Our Sunday 4 ball is playing at least 20 minutes quicker.

    Posted:
  • Big BenBig Ben  9280WRX Points: 462Handicap: 5Members Posts: 9,280
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    Everyone in my group(s) have decided to leave it in at all times and I love it!

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  • Steele47Steele47  1648WRX Points: 804Members Posts: 1,648
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    Well I don't know about the hanging by the shorthairs bit, but they may deserve a stern talking to!

    Posted:
  • SawgrassSawgrass  15682WRX Points: 1,008Members Posts: 15,682
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    On -, @ThinkingPlus said:

    On -, @CAT GOLFER said:

    i, personally, feel this will speed up my rounds when I play alone, and think it would be the same for others doing the same. I also, agree that having a mixed group does slow things down.

    You have been able to leave the pin in when playing as a single ever since the RBs disallowed singles posting scores for handicap purposes. As far as the RBs are concerned playing as a single is "practicing" by definition. You can do anything you want.

    What you are "able" to do (legally) doesn't change whether you're going to post or not. The choice to play by the rules remains, and now the solo golfer doesn't have to pull that pin that's 40 feet away and putt while he/she is unable to see a target. A nice plus.

    Posted:
  • ThinkingPlusThinkingPlus South Texas 2123WRX Points: 975Handicap: +0.6ClubWRX Posts: 2,123
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    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    On -, @ThinkingPlus said:

    On -, @CAT GOLFER said:

    i, personally, feel this will speed up my rounds when I play alone, and think it would be the same for others doing the same. I also, agree that having a mixed group does slow things down.

    You have been able to leave the pin in when playing as a single ever since the RBs disallowed singles posting scores for handicap purposes. As far as the RBs are concerned playing as a single is "practicing" by definition. You can do anything you want.

    What you are "able" to do (legally) doesn't change whether you're going to post or not. The choice to play by the rules remains, and now the solo golfer doesn't have to pull that pin that's 40 feet away and putt while he/she is unable to see a target. A nice plus.

    LOL! Sure. If the RBs won't let me post then why bother? Play multiple balls, take practice putts after a hole, drop how you want, ... it really doesn't make a difference.

    Posted:
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  • IamMarkMacIamMarkMac SF Bay Area 750WRX Points: 248Handicap: 10Members Posts: 750
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    On -, @jmtbkr said:

    Stupid rule!
    I personally pull each time I putt. I understand why some like it.
    Doesn't seem to speed the game along at all. Mostly, it ruins the carefully sculpted hole from people who try to pull the ball out without decent finger dexterity. We have alot of senior members at my club and many have problems retrieving the ball, use ball grabbers on the end of their putters and severely dent the cup edges.
    Who came up with this idea? they should be hung by their shorthairs!

    The problem here is not leaving the flag in. The problem is people using ball grabbers and denting the cup edge. Someone can dent a cup edge with the flag out and actually, even without a ball grabber.
    I like the flag out but keep it in because of pace of play. I have a hard time believing any stories about this slowing things down.

    Posted:
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  • SawgrassSawgrass  15682WRX Points: 1,008Members Posts: 15,682
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    On -, @ThinkingPlus said:

    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    On -, @ThinkingPlus said:

    On -, @CAT GOLFER said:

    i, personally, feel this will speed up my rounds when I play alone, and think it would be the same for others doing the same. I also, agree that having a mixed group does slow things down.

    You have been able to leave the pin in when playing as a single ever since the RBs disallowed singles posting scores for handicap purposes. As far as the RBs are concerned playing as a single is "practicing" by definition. You can do anything you want.

    What you are "able" to do (legally) doesn't change whether you're going to post or not. The choice to play by the rules remains, and now the solo golfer doesn't have to pull that pin that's 40 feet away and putt while he/she is unable to see a target. A nice plus.

    LOL! Sure. If the RBs won't let me post then why bother? Play multiple balls, take practice putts after a hole, drop how you want, ... it really doesn't make a difference.

    To me, playing by the rules is its own reward. And I often compete with friends during the non-handicap-posting season in Connecticut, so playing by the rules is an obligation as well as a pleasure.

    Posted:
  • ThinkingPlusThinkingPlus South Texas 2123WRX Points: 975Handicap: +0.6ClubWRX Posts: 2,123
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    If you are playing as a single it has been defined as on-course practice no matter when you play. If you are playing in a group, playing by the rules is required. The weird seasonal posting stuff is just an aberration and not part of the discussion.

    Posted:
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  • SawgrassSawgrass  15682WRX Points: 1,008Members Posts: 15,682
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    On -, @ThinkingPlus said:

    If you are playing as a single it has been defined as on-course practice no matter when you play. If you are playing in a group, playing by the rules is required. The weird seasonal posting stuff is just an aberration and not part of the discussion.

    1) There's nothing "weird" about seasonal posting, and it's part of the discussion because I brought it into the discussion.
    2) One can play by the rules as a single with complete satisfaction with one's score if one chooses. Show me where it's "defined" as "practice."
    3) Playing by the rules is never "required" irrespective of how many people you're playing with.

    I believe we have differing points of view. Sure, practice as a single if that's what you want. But it's not required.

    Posted:
  • ThinkingPlusThinkingPlus South Texas 2123WRX Points: 975Handicap: +0.6ClubWRX Posts: 2,123
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    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    On -, @ThinkingPlus said:

    If you are playing as a single it has been defined as on-course practice no matter when you play. If you are playing in a group, playing by the rules is required. The weird seasonal posting stuff is just an aberration and not part of the discussion.

    1) There's nothing "weird" about seasonal posting, and it's part of the discussion because I brought it into the discussion.
    2) One can play by the rules as a single with complete satisfaction with one's score if one chooses. Show me where it's "defined" as "practice."
    3) Playing by the rules is never "required" irrespective of how many people you're playing with.

    I believe we have differing points of view. Sure, practice as a single if that's what you want. But it's not required.

    When the RBs prevented singles from posting scores that is essentially the same as designating the round of golf played as a single (without a marker) as "practice". It was an insulting change to the handicap system. Basically single golfers are pretty much being branded as sandbaggers whether they were or not. You are correct about playing by the rules not being required. If you keep an RB sanctioned handicap you are supposed to play by the rules, but I guess you don't have to.

    Posted:
    Driver: Callaway GBB Epic 9° w/Project X HZRDUS T800 65 gm 6.0 flex
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  • SNIPERBBBSNIPERBBB Hit Ball Hard SE Ohio 3075WRX Points: 743Handicap: 2.9Members Posts: 3,075
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    On -, @Timbo929 said:

    Awkward moment for whoever's closest to the flag... To pull or not to pull?

    No awkward moment needed. No touchy the flag until someone asks.

    Posted:
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  • I_HATE_SNOWI_HATE_SNOW  3402WRX Points: 220Members Posts: 3,402
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    I love the leaving the flag in rule! Wife and I play most rounds as a 2 some, really speeds up our round.

    Posted:
  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean  4646WRX Points: 427Handicap: 3,8Members Posts: 4,646
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    On -, @ThinkingPlus said:

    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    On -, @ThinkingPlus said:

    If you are playing as a single it has been defined as on-course practice no matter when you play. If you are playing in a group, playing by the rules is required. The weird seasonal posting stuff is just an aberration and not part of the discussion.

    1) There's nothing "weird" about seasonal posting, and it's part of the discussion because I brought it into the discussion.
    2) One can play by the rules as a single with complete satisfaction with one's score if one chooses. Show me where it's "defined" as "practice."
    3) Playing by the rules is never "required" irrespective of how many people you're playing with.

    I believe we have differing points of view. Sure, practice as a single if that's what you want. But it's not required.

    When the RBs prevented singles from posting scores that is essentially the same as designating the round of golf played as a single (without a marker) as "practice". It was an insulting change to the handicap system. Basically single golfers are pretty much being branded as sandbaggers whether they were or not. You are correct about playing by the rules not being required. If you keep an RB sanctioned handicap you are supposed to play by the rules, but I guess you don't have to.

    To be pedantic, only USGA has allowed singles to post handicap scores. In R&A jurisdiction that is and has not been allowed (maybe in Australia, I am not sure of them). Besides, R&A has little to do with handicaps in Europe, that is mainly the responsibility of EGA.

    Afa practice rounds are concerned in EGA and CONGU systems one can play one's round according to the Rules without posting the result. Personally I do not feel that is a practice round. If I really want to practice on the course I may play several balls from one spot just to try different shots. That IMO is practice. Then again, this is hardly an important issue to be debated about, there is no right or wrong.

    Posted:
  • SoCalTitleistSoCalTitleist  3256WRX Points: 137Handicap: 13Members Posts: 3,256
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    On -, @Timbo929 said:

    Awkward moment for whoever's closest to the flag... To pull or not to pull?

    Exactly this! Half the guys still want it in , then when you play with strangers and not familiar if they want it in or out .

    Posted:
  • wobgonwobgon  7736WRX Points: 488Members Posts: 7,736
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    I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed before.....

    Posted:
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  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean  4646WRX Points: 427Handicap: 3,8Members Posts: 4,646
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    On -, @wobgon said:

    I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed before.....

    And such an important subject!

    Posted:
  • sui generissui generis  4368WRX Points: 709Members Posts: 4,368
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    On -, @SoCalTitleist said:

    On -, @Timbo929 said:

    Awkward moment for whoever's closest to the flag... To pull or not to pull?

    Exactly this! Half the guys still want it in , then when you play with strangers and not familiar if they want it in or out .

    It's a nightmare. I find it takes about 7 seconds when the group reaches the first green for someone to ask if we're flagsticks in today and reach an agreement.

    Posted:
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • ImpImp Fueled  6166WRX Points: 244Handicap: 12.6Members Posts: 6,166
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    On -, @jmtbkr said:

    Stupid rule!
    I personally pull each time I putt. I understand why some like it.
    Doesn't seem to speed the game along at all. Mostly, it ruins the carefully sculpted hole from people who try to pull the ball out without decent finger dexterity. We have alot of senior members at my club and many have problems retrieving the ball, use ball grabbers on the end of their putters and severely dent the cup edges.
    Who came up with this idea? they should be hung by their shorthairs!

    I would simply suggest for those that want to use grabbers/suction to pull the flag first and THEN use the grabber/suction and put the flag back instead of trying to get it out with the flag still in the hole.

    --kC

    Posted:
    Callaway Rogue 10.5 / Callaway Rogue 3W / Mizuno JPX-EZ Forged Irons / Callaway MD4 52*, 58*, 64*
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  • ImpImp Fueled  6166WRX Points: 244Handicap: 12.6Members Posts: 6,166
    Joined:  edited Apr 1, 2019 #31

    On -, @sui generis said:

    On -, @SoCalTitleist said:

    On -, @Timbo929 said:

    Awkward moment for whoever's closest to the flag... To pull or not to pull?

    Exactly this! Half the guys still want it in , then when you play with strangers and not familiar if they want it in or out .

    It's a nightmare. I find it takes about 7 seconds when the group reaches the first green for someone to ask if we're flagsticks in today and reach an agreement.

    Come one Sui, you know better. Used to be known as waiving a rule of golf? Now covered in 2019 Rule 1.3.b.(1):

    If two or more players deliberately agree to ignore any Rule or penalty they know applies and any of those players have started the round, they are disqualified (even if they have not yet acted on the agreement).

    While I get what you're trying to do/suggest, it is against the RoG to come to agreement as to pre-determine the status of the flag on each hole before, and while, playing. Just like saying "all good within 8 feet".

    Posted:
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