install 3 wood shaft on driver...results?

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BB28403BB28403  4270WRX Points: 745Handicap: This post may not be here soon as moderators may delete it to free up space. Be concerned... you may be next...Members Posts: 4,270 Titanium Tees
Joined:  edited Apr 1, 2019 in WRX Club Techs #1

What effect do you see if you install your 3 wood shaft onto your driver. (Same type shaft). Assuming it is just as easy as unscrewing with the tool and swapping them out. More control? A lot less yardage ? What...?

Thanks

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  • cristphotocristphoto  3628WRX Points: 276Members Posts: 3,628 Titanium Tees
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    The usual tipping for a 3-wood is 1/2 inch vs no tipping for driver so I would think it would play stiffer (just guessing though). .

    Posted:
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  • lookylookitzadamlookylookitzadam SoCal 614WRX Points: 218Handicap: 2.7Members Posts: 614 Golden Tee
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    Depends on the shaft weight and length, swing weight is going to be way off the map. You will need to add lots of tape to compensate and get it back to a playable swing weight.

    If you got it all adjusted and all things being equal, you would lose club head speed due to the shorter length but could pick up distance if you launch conditions improve.

    Ultimately though it will probably feel pretty bad.

    Posted:
  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OH 7267WRX Points: 568Handicap: 1.8Members Posts: 7,267 Titanium Tees
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    I’ve been playing my driver at 43.5” for over 20 years. That’s 1/2 inch longer than most modern 3 woods. I Do have the swing weight set at a “normal” level as well by adding weight to the head.

    Distance is not a concern for me. I still swing it 110 mph. I can’t even fathom using a 45+ inch monster anymore. My 3 wood is also an inch short at 42 inches with weight added to the head to match the driver swingweight.

    Posted:
    9.5* Cobra LTD, Old school Grafalloy Blue, 43.5"
    14* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X 42"
    16* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X, 41.5" (set to 17*)
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  • noaces06noaces06  420WRX Points: 73Handicap: 4.9Members Posts: 420 Greens
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    I've played a 43.5" driver for years and have never had an issue with feel, swing speed or distance. It works for me because of better control and a higher likelihood of hitting the center of the face.

    Will it work for you? Depends - do you have issues with center contact? Do you have big misses (slice/hook)? I've converted a handful of players at my club to shorter drivers based on how much easier they are to control without a loss of distance.

    If you're worried about feel - play with the shaft. I play a 70TX in my driver, but due to the shorter length, it plays a bit softer. I also don't adjust the swingweight - never have and I don't have an issue with feel or loss of distance so that's up to you. Experiment with it and see if you enjoy the feel.

    Posted:
  • offwhiteoffwhite  129WRX Points: 41Handicap: 7.3Members Posts: 129 Fairways
    Joined:  #6

    I threw the shaft from my sldr 4w into my sldr head for a while and I liked it. It’s a heavier shaft and I weighed both heads, bringing the sldr head up with lead tape. Ended up playing at about 43.5. Felt fine, maybe it played a little shorter. My sweet spot ended up being 44.5, but actually my sldr is still in backup bag with the same 4w shaft in it.

    Posted:
    SLDR 10.5 Matrix Ozik X
    SLDR 3hl TP Fuji ts 8.3X
    585h 17* rifle 6.5
    Mizuno MP 68 4-PW PX 6.0
    Mizuno MP R-12 52, 56, 60
    Odyssey Tour Black
  • Awainer1Awainer1  925WRX Points: 105Members Posts: 925 Golden Tee
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    Digging this thread. Also playing a shorter driver helps it play flatter which in my mind more people should do.

    Posted:
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  • offwhiteoffwhite  129WRX Points: 41Handicap: 7.3Members Posts: 129 Fairways
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    On that note, the lie angles on my irons also play 2* flat so makes sense it’s be more comfortable.

    Posted:
    SLDR 10.5 Matrix Ozik X
    SLDR 3hl TP Fuji ts 8.3X
    585h 17* rifle 6.5
    Mizuno MP 68 4-PW PX 6.0
    Mizuno MP R-12 52, 56, 60
    Odyssey Tour Black
  • blackngold_bloodblackngold_blood Golf Ball Whacker Guy  1123WRX Points: 121Members Posts: 1,123 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Apr 5, 2019 #9

    On -, @noaces06 said:

    If you're worried about feel - play with the shaft.** I play a 70TX in my driver, but due to the shorter length, it plays a bit softer. I also don't adjust the swingweight - **never have and I don't have an issue with feel or loss of distance so that's up to you. Experiment with it and see if you enjoy the feel.

    I don't believe this will actually be the case. It will play slightly stiffer if you don't add any weight back to the head not softer.

    Posted:
    WITB

    Work in progress and will be updated after St. Andrews!!


    Ball: OnCore Elixr
  • noaces06noaces06  420WRX Points: 73Handicap: 4.9Members Posts: 420 Greens
    Joined:  #10

    On -, @blackngold_blood said:

    On -, @noaces06 said:

    If you're worried about feel - play with the shaft.** I play a 70TX in my driver, but due to the shorter length, it plays a bit softer. I also don't adjust the swingweight - **never have and I don't have an issue with feel or loss of distance so that's up to you. Experiment with it and see if you enjoy the feel.

    I don't believe this will actually be the case. It will play slightly stiffer if you don't add any weight back to the head not softer.

    Based on everything I've read, butt trimming softens the shaft - the butt is always the stiffest portion of the shaft and removing material from there softens the overall flex. Tip trimming would certainly stiffen up the shaft, but that isn't the case with the butt. At least according to the videos I've seen on it.

    Posted:
  • cforseliuscforselius  400WRX Points: 140Members Posts: 400 Greens
    Joined:  #11

    I put a Oban Kiyoshi 85g X-Flex tipped 0.5 inch into a 917 D3 playing 43.75. Did not do anything about SW and hit really good solid drives first round of the year. It feels amazing and looks even better.

    Posted:
  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and Southwest 16391WRX Points: 781Handicap: Low-Mid SDMembers Posts: 16,391 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Apr 16, 2019 #12

    I installed a 43" shaft in an old driver and lost distance. How much maybe 15yds? I have tested every 1/2" from 43" to 45.5" shaft for driver playing length and settled on 44.5" as the best length for minimal dispersion, lots of control, and overall distance. Oh, and I especially like TS2 at 9.5* B2 over 917D2 10.5* B2

    Posted:
    Titleist TS2 9.5, Ventus 5 "S"
    Titleist TS2 16.5*, Ventus 7 "S"
    Titleist T-MB 17* 2i, i95cw "S"
    Titleist 620 CB/MB 3i-PW, i110cw/i125cw "S"
    SM6 F-52*, i125cw "S"
    SM6 M-58*, DG-S200
    SC California Monterey
    ProV1



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  • blackngold_bloodblackngold_blood Golf Ball Whacker Guy  1123WRX Points: 121Members Posts: 1,123 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @noaces06 said:

    On -, @blackngold_blood said:

    On -, @noaces06 said:

    If you're worried about feel - play with the shaft.** I play a 70TX in my driver, but due to the shorter length, it plays a bit softer. I also don't adjust the swingweight - **never have and I don't have an issue with feel or loss of distance so that's up to you. Experiment with it and see if you enjoy the feel.

    I don't believe this will actually be the case. It will play slightly stiffer if you don't add any weight back to the head not softer.

    Based on everything I've read, butt trimming softens the shaft - the butt is always the stiffest portion of the shaft and removing material from there softens the overall flex. Tip trimming would certainly stiffen up the shaft, but that isn't the case with the butt. At least according to the videos I've seen on it.

    I have never read anywhere that trimming anything off a shaft from either end softens it. Now if you take a driver shaft and trim it down 1” from the butt and reinstall it in the same head the shaft will play stiffer due to a lighter swing weight. If you then add weight back to the head to get the proper swing weight it will play slightly softer due to more head weight compared to the original. This is the reason most recommend tipping slightly if adding weight to the head.

    Posted:
    WITB

    Work in progress and will be updated after St. Andrews!!


    Ball: OnCore Elixr
  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and Southwest 16391WRX Points: 781Handicap: Low-Mid SDMembers Posts: 16,391 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #14

    On -, @noaces06 said:

    I've played a 43.5" driver for years and have never had an issue with feel, swing speed or distance. It works for me because of better control and a higher likelihood of hitting the center of the face.

    Will it work for you? Depends - do you have issues with center contact? Do you have big misses (slice/hook)? I've converted a handful of players at my club to shorter drivers based on how much easier they are to control without a loss of distance.

    If you're worried about feel - play with the shaft. I play a 70TX in my driver, but due to the shorter length, it plays a bit softer. I also don't adjust the swingweight - never have and I don't have an issue with feel or loss of distance so that's up to you. Experiment with it and see if you enjoy the feel.

    Shortening driver shaft is only done by butt trimming, and that should not soften flex profile. Never has for me. It will, however, weaken swing weight by 3 SW points for each 1/2" cut off.

    Posted:
    Titleist TS2 9.5, Ventus 5 "S"
    Titleist TS2 16.5*, Ventus 7 "S"
    Titleist T-MB 17* 2i, i95cw "S"
    Titleist 620 CB/MB 3i-PW, i110cw/i125cw "S"
    SM6 F-52*, i125cw "S"
    SM6 M-58*, DG-S200
    SC California Monterey
    ProV1



  • noaces06noaces06  420WRX Points: 73Handicap: 4.9Members Posts: 420 Greens
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    On -, @Pepperturbo said:

    On -, @noaces06 said:

    I've played a 43.5" driver for years and have never had an issue with feel, swing speed or distance. It works for me because of better control and a higher likelihood of hitting the center of the face.

    Will it work for you? Depends - do you have issues with center contact? Do you have big misses (slice/hook)? I've converted a handful of players at my club to shorter drivers based on how much easier they are to control without a loss of distance.

    If you're worried about feel - play with the shaft. I play a 70TX in my driver, but due to the shorter length, it plays a bit softer. I also don't adjust the swingweight - never have and I don't have an issue with feel or loss of distance so that's up to you. Experiment with it and see if you enjoy the feel.

    Shortening driver shaft is only done by butt trimming, and that should not soften flex profile. Never has for me. It will, however, weaken swing weight by 3 SW points for each 1/2" cut off.

    All I know is that the tour van guy from Project X did a video on this exact conversation - frequency testing a standard length vs a 1" butt cut. The butt cut shaft came out softer (frequency) than the uncut, by almost a full flex. You may have a different feel and disagree - for me, I'm going with the PX video and my experience. At the end of the day, it's all about feel - if you like the feel (softer or not) then it's a good fit for you.

    Posted:
  • blackngold_bloodblackngold_blood Golf Ball Whacker Guy  1123WRX Points: 121Members Posts: 1,123 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #16

    On -, @noaces06 said:

    On -, @Pepperturbo said:

    On -, @noaces06 said:

    I've played a 43.5" driver for years and have never had an issue with feel, swing speed or distance. It works for me because of better control and a higher likelihood of hitting the center of the face.

    Will it work for you? Depends - do you have issues with center contact? Do you have big misses (slice/hook)? I've converted a handful of players at my club to shorter drivers based on how much easier they are to control without a loss of distance.

    If you're worried about feel - play with the shaft. I play a 70TX in my driver, but due to the shorter length, it plays a bit softer. I also don't adjust the swingweight - never have and I don't have an issue with feel or loss of distance so that's up to you. Experiment with it and see if you enjoy the feel.

    Shortening driver shaft is only done by butt trimming, and that should not soften flex profile. Never has for me. It will, however, weaken swing weight by 3 SW points for each 1/2" cut off.

    All I know is that the tour van guy from Project X did a video on this exact conversation - frequency testing a standard length vs a 1" butt cut. The butt cut shaft came out softer (frequency) than the uncut, by almost a full flex. You may have a different feel and disagree - for me, I'm going with the PX video and my experience. At the end of the day, it's all about feel - if you like the feel (softer or not) then it's a good fit for you.

    Link to the video? I just don’t see how shortening can make it softer without adding head weight.

    Posted:
    WITB

    Work in progress and will be updated after St. Andrews!!


    Ball: OnCore Elixr
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New Hampshire 24578WRX Points: 1,304Members Posts: 24,578 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Apr 17, 2019 #17

    On -, @blackngold_blood said:

    Link to the video? I just don’t see how shortening can make it softer without adding head weight.

    I agree it would be good to get the link - but as I understand it, most butt frequency "standards" or methods depend on keeping the swing weight constant when the length changes - so it's very possible he might have added some head weight. That's one of the major differences between golf shaft 'stiffness' measurements and a more pure engineering beam theory view of stiffness. In the later, take the same beam and shorten it in any way and it will always be stiffer. In the golf context, that's not always the case.

    Posted:
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  • sumo101sumo101 19th Hole Connoisseur  81WRX Points: 62Handicap: 7.2Members Posts: 81 Fairways
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    https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1721620/if-i-cut-down-g400-max-from-45-5-to-44-5-what-weight-would-i-need/p1
    This was effectively how I ended up with the G400 MAX with a 43.5" shaft - if you don't want to read the whole thread the summary is:

    Zero distance loss (reality is distance gained - about 8 real world yards) more fairways hit and more confidence.

    Cheers

    Posted:
    Ping G400 Max 10.5 Alta Stiff
    Ping G400 3 Wood SFT Alta Stiff
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  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and Southwest 16391WRX Points: 781Handicap: Low-Mid SDMembers Posts: 16,391 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Apr 23, 2019 #19

    On -, @noaces06 said:

    On -, @Pepperturbo said:

    On -, @noaces06 said:

    I've played a 43.5" driver for years and have never had an issue with feel, swing speed or distance. It works for me because of better control and a higher likelihood of hitting the center of the face.

    Will it work for you? Depends - do you have issues with center contact? Do you have big misses (slice/hook)? I've converted a handful of players at my club to shorter drivers based on how much easier they are to control without a loss of distance.

    If you're worried about feel - play with the shaft. I play a 70TX in my driver, but due to the shorter length, it plays a bit softer. I also don't adjust the swingweight - never have and I don't have an issue with feel or loss of distance so that's up to you. Experiment with it and see if you enjoy the feel.

    Shortening driver shaft is only done by butt trimming, and that should not soften flex profile. Never has for me. It will, however, weaken swing weight by 3 SW points for each 1/2" cut off.

    All I know is that the tour van guy from Project X did a video on this exact conversation - frequency testing a standard length vs a 1" butt cut. The butt cut shaft came out softer (frequency) than the uncut, by almost a full flex. You may have a different feel and disagree - for me, I'm going with the PX video and my experience. At the end of the day, it's all about feel - if you like the feel (softer or not) then it's a good fit for you.

    Yes, equipment is all about feel. I play to a low single digit and very sensitive to SW and flex profile changes. We're not the same so maybe you're feeling something but because you didn't provide the video, least that I am aware of, we don't know how frequency was actually measured. One thing is true, Project X measures shaft flex different from other OEM companies. I have been playing PX Tour Issue 6.0 and 6.5 graphite in my driver and 3wd since their introduction.

    Only recently switched to Fujikura Fuel Tour Spec 60 "S" (67-grams), after butt cut to 44.5". After installing the same grip with 2 wraps, flex profile stayed the same. I just had a Project X Smoke 60-gram "S" shaft butt cut 1" to 44.5". The only result was a more weight was needed in the head to bring it back to to my SW requirement. It depends on the amount of weight and length of clamp used to measure frequency. Have a good day.

    Posted:
    Titleist TS2 9.5, Ventus 5 "S"
    Titleist TS2 16.5*, Ventus 7 "S"
    Titleist T-MB 17* 2i, i95cw "S"
    Titleist 620 CB/MB 3i-PW, i110cw/i125cw "S"
    SM6 F-52*, i125cw "S"
    SM6 M-58*, DG-S200
    SC California Monterey
    ProV1



  • tyorke1tyorke1  2281WRX Points: 142Handicap: +1.4Members Posts: 2,281 Platinum Tees
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    I have the opposite and love it, driver shaft in a 3 wood and high no spinners, rogue 125tx and only slightly tipped , best combo I have ever had ,

    Posted:
    m6 9 degree , tensai pro orange 70s ,
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    818 h2 hybrid 19 degree ,tour spec blue 85s
    taylor p790 17 degree
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    taylormade spider tour dj version
    epic green staff bag or taylormade flex lite 
  • Howard_JonesHoward_Jones  10247WRX Points: 1,406Members Posts: 10,247 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @blackngold_blood said:

    On -, @noaces06 said:

    On -, @blackngold_blood said:

    On -, @noaces06 said:

    If you're worried about feel - play with the shaft.** I play a 70TX in my driver, but due to the shorter length, it plays a bit softer. I also don't adjust the swingweight - **never have and I don't have an issue with feel or loss of distance so that's up to you. Experiment with it and see if you enjoy the feel.

    I don't believe this will actually be the case. It will play slightly stiffer if you don't add any weight back to the head not softer.

    Based on everything I've read, butt trimming softens the shaft - the butt is always the stiffest portion of the shaft and removing material from there softens the overall flex. Tip trimming would certainly stiffen up the shaft, but that isn't the case with the butt. At least according to the videos I've seen on it.

    I have never read anywhere that trimming anything off a shaft from either end softens it. Now if you take a driver shaft and trim it down 1” from the butt and reinstall it in the same head the shaft will play stiffer due to a lighter swing weight. If you then add weight back to the head to get the proper swing weight it will play slightly softer due to more head weight compared to the original. This is the reason most recommend tipping slightly if adding weight to the head.

    When we judge shaft flex with the CPM method, cutting down a shaft from the butt and NO reset of SW value DONT make it stronger....
    Depending on the shafts natural slope or what chart we compare it too, 1 inch shorter mean it shall measure 7.3 to 11 CPM stronger, but i never saw any shaft who gained more than the loss in SW point who is 6, so like it or not, when we go shorter on the stiffest part of the shaft, over all flex goes SOFTER.

    If we use the deflection method, a shorter shaft bend less by nature, and thats how it should be, the question is, does a "xx.xx" long shaft bend more or less depending on what side we cut it down from? yes it does, so tip side trim is going stronger, butt side trim is going softer. How much is depending on the shafts profile and butt side, so a LOW launch profile looses less flex going shorter than a HIGH launch profile does.

    If we look at a steel shaft like RIFLE, 1 inch butt difference makes a difference to flex of 7 CPM so a RIFLE FCM 6.0 shaft would play to FCM 6.7 if butt became 1 inch longer than standard, or only FCM 5.3 if we was 1 inch below standard, all because this HIGH launch profile has a "relative" stiff butt section vs the rest of the shaft, so changes at the butt makes a larger difference to this shaft, vs a shaft like DG where the butt section is softer vs the rest (or lets say mid and tip is stiffer, its the relative relationship we change)

    Since RIFLE uses a different play length standard on the OLD model they was often mis calculated when we changed play lengths, so a RIFLE FCM who by Rifle standard is 0.5" shorter than the norm, played in a Titleist iron at plus 0.5" vs Titleist standard is actually Plus 1.0" VS Rifle standard.
    That FCM 6.0 shafts became FCM 6.7

    If we used Dynamic Gold X100, we started from FCM 6.8 and when going 0.5" above Titleist standard we loose about 3 CPM or equal to SS1, so that set becomes FCM 6.5.....

    UPS...the softest starting point became the strongest in play, profile and different BUTT length is the reason

    Going shorter butt side from std and down makes it softer, how much depend on the butt section itself, but what we measure is one thing, how it feels
    is not always the same like with tip trim. The progression we measure for each 1/8" or what ever we use might be rather constant, but feel will be progressive, so we dont notice much on the first few 1/8"s we tip trim, but we notice those we take from 3/8 and more....0.5" is a small change, 1.0" is a BIG change and "more than the double" if we judge it by feel.

    Posted:

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