Lob Wedge for Tight Bermuda

I'm looking for a versatile lob wedge for the tight (sometimes baked) Bermuda fairways I play here in Central Florida. Before moving to Orlando late last year, I lived on the luch fairways and greenside rough in Central Virginia, where wide soles and bounce were your friend. My once trusty Vokey K grind has turned sour, and I need something that will help my glide over the tight, grabby hardpan Bermuda on my new (and otherwise very lovely) home course.

I've played the L grind previously, and feel like it might be a little too low bounce, but it is an option. Should I also consider the M grind? What other brands and grinds should I consider?

I just picked up a TaylorMade 60* Hi Toe ATV grind wedge. Based off the 15 minutes I hit it today in the practice area I think it's a winner.

I play 58* 8* M grind in tight dry conditions with no problem. But also use that same LW or an open-faced 52*/8* F grind in soft sand bunkers. My point is to be a good golfer we must be able to make our clubs work regardless of conditions. Unless you are pining for a new wedge just because, my suggestion is to learn how to be effective with what you have. My 2cents.

> @BCULAW said:

> I'm looking for a versatile lob wedge for the tight (sometimes baked) Bermuda fairways I play here in Central Florida. Before moving to Orlando late last year, I lived on the luch fairways and greenside rough in Central Virginia, where wide soles and bounce were your friend. My once trusty Vokey K grind has turned sour, and I need something that will help my glide over the tight, grabby hardpan Bermuda on my new (and otherwise very lovely) home course.

>

> I've played the L grind previously, and feel like it might be a little too low bounce, but it is an option. Should I also consider the M grind? What other brands and grinds should I consider?

If you want to stick w/ Vokey, go V grind. In other brands, the Ping TS is great.

> @Pepperturbo said:

> I play 58* 8* M grind in tight dry conditions with no problem. But also use that same LW or an open-faced 52*/8* F grind in soft sand bunkers. My point is to be a good golfer we must be able to make our clubs work regardless of conditions. Unless you are pining for a new wedge just because, my suggestion is to learn how to be effective with what you have. My 2cents.

Kinda my thoughts as well. Sure there’s plenty of good golfers that prefer certain grinds but I’m sure most good golfers could make any grind work from about any lie. Sounds like someone is trying to find something to compensate for poor contact.

Ideally you would like a low bounce wedge to deal with the firm turf especially hard pan. However, if the bunkers are soft you might also want a wide sole to provide more effective bounce when laid open. That combination is hard to find. I think the wide sole would also help with the gnarly birds nest bermuda around the greens. Other than a full custom I am not sure where to get such a wedge. I am looking for the same if you find one.

Check the Cleveland wide low grind.

Matted down, dormant bermuda is like a pool table with grain. Out of the FW, it's not so bad, but around the green is another story. All my wedges are higher bounce and I can't see changing for that one situation. It's just a tough shot.

> @scottc25 said:

> I just picked up a TaylorMade 60* Hi Toe ATV grind wedge. Based off the 15 minutes I hit it today in the practice area I think it's a winner.

I love my high toe wedges. I play tight Bermuda with them as well. Very good grind! Switched from vokey M grind.

I keep a 60* Cleveland 485 RTG in my Florida bag at my in-laws house. It's perfect for the southwest Florida conditions - played with a square face its low bounce, but its got a wide sole and works well out of deep rough and bunkers if I open it up.

I've lived in Florida all my life and have a bit of experience playing bermuda grass. Using a lob wedge off tightly mown or down packed bermuda is not the best play. For the rough or powder type sand they are great on courses like ours but really off of this type of lie, not so much. I might suggest playing a PW from your set off of lies like those and a good 56 degree like a standard bounce for the higher type lob/pitch shot. The 60 off of those lies, no matter the bounce, you have to pinch it perfectly otherwise it opens you up to fat of thinly bladed shots with will cost you strokes.

> @bullsfan said:

> I've lived in Florida all my life and have a bit of experience playing bermuda grass. Using a lob wedge off tightly mown or down packed bermuda is not the best play. For the rough or powder type sand they are great on courses like ours but really off of this type of lie, not so much. I might suggest playing a PW from your set off of lies like those and a good 56 degree like a standard bounce for the higher type lob/pitch shot. The 60 off of those lies, no matter the bounce, you have to pinch it perfectly otherwise it opens you up to fat of thinly bladed shots with will cost you strokes.

You make a great point. The lie just requires so much precision that I feel like I have to be perfect with this wedge to get any results. Coupled with the lightning fast greens at my course, and anything less than perfection is a 30 foot par putt. I use the 60 for 90% of my free side shots - always have. I may need to consider playing a bit less loft, and more straight-faces chips off of these lies.

Never fails on this damn site....

I have always wanted to try a lower bounce 58 for tighter lies, see this thread, then find a 58/8 new T7 for $79, on the way

I play in North Texas where we have damn near identical conditions in terms of firm/hardpan Bermuda.

Been using the Vokey 60M for several years now with no issues. Only time you have to be careful is the low spot that gets soggy from normal watering.

CP

Haven't played the hi toe but I have switched to almost exclusively ATV wedges. Same conditions here in Texas. Super low bounce when the club is square, higher bounce when you open up the face. I'm down to a PW, 52 ATV, and a 12 bounce 58 that I use for bunkers and the occasional thick lie. Otherwise it's the 52 pretty much all the time.

funny

I love my M grinds up here in the summer. Tight and firm bent

Down South off of matted and dormant Bermuda (it's like chipping off sand sometimes) I've had great success with Zing 2 BeCu wedges and Ping Glides.

OR PUTTING !!!

I have an Glide ES sole 60 degree, bent to 59* ... had Ping wrx do leading and trailing edge relief grinds and a heel grind as well. Pretty solid

> @blarkin97 said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @Pepperturbo said:

> > > I play 58* 8* M grind in tight dry conditions with no problem. But also use that same LW or an open-faced 52*/8* F grind in soft sand bunkers. My point is to be a good golfer we must be able to make our clubs work regardless of conditions. Unless you are pining for a new wedge just because, my suggestion is to learn how to be effective with what you have. My 2cents.

> >

> > Kinda my thoughts as well. Sure there’s plenty of good golfers that prefer certain grinds but I’m sure most good golfers could make any grind work from about any lie. Sounds like someone is trying to find something to compensate for poor contact.

>

> What would be the point of different grinds with different sole widths then????? I understand poor contact trumps all but the guys was asking for help with wedge selection not looking to be told hes a **** golfer lol

Alluding to someone not being able to make a certain club work in diverse conditions is NOT a personal assault. IF anything it's stating a helpful factual condition that should change to improve one's game. Besides, nobody can buy a game. And just because Titleist makes all sorts of wedge configurations doesn't automatically mean if you can't hit one you should buy another and another. Titleist is like most other company's, wants to merchandise. Remember, if we have multiple clubs with differing configurations, each requires extensive practice time.

Learning how to be an effective ball striker with all the clubs in our bag, regardless of conditions, IS, IMO, the goal ALL golfers should chase. Tour players have different sets of clubs for different conditions, as part of their equipment contract. Example, many tour players have sets designed just for Augusta conditions. Notwithstanding when we go to a course, we never know what we're going to face. I use to play interclub team golf at my last club where we visited all sorts of courses. Those conditions required us to be able to play what's in our bag, wherever.

If ego isn’t an issue a specialty wedge might be the trick. Something like a sure out or smart sole.

> @BiggErn said:

> If ego isn’t an issue a specialty wedge might be the trick. Something like a sure out or smart sole.

You are just being mean now. Haha!

To be clear, I don't suck at golf. I am a solid low handicap player, with a pretty good short game. I don't play competitively, but I have never looked foolish when I have played with competitive golfers, and I have done so on many occasions.

I am simply finding that many shots that were in my repertoire in Virginia are very difficult to execute on these new course conditions in Florida. My sense is that the fat bottom on my Vokey K grind tends to get in the way when I'm trying to play delicate greenside shots off tight, crispy lies. Perhaps a different shot is in order in these conditions (as mentioned above), but it also seems to me that a club designed for straight face shots in soft, soggy conditions, might not be my best bet now that I play in firm, tight conditions.

The variability of tight Bermuda shots around the green relate directly to the grain you are presented with for the shot. Down grain is much much easier and let a skilled player do just about any shot. Into the grain no matter which bounce requires a precise strike and has to be practiced for ball position and attack angle. Especially if the shot requires height. It’s a tough shot that we’ve all seen on TV catch the pros looking stupid. When they use to play the Tavistock at Nona or Isleworth you would watch pros get hammered on into the grain shots

Try a 62 T grind Vokey ... low bounce M

Wicked off of tight and firm lies

> @firstbatch said:

> The variability of tight Bermuda shots around the green relate directly to the grain you are presented with for the shot. Down grain is much much easier and let a skilled player do just about any shot. Into the grain no matter which bounce requires a precise strike and has to be practiced for ball position and attack angle. Especially if the shot requires height. It’s a tough shot that we’ve all seen on TV catch the pros looking stupid. When they use to play the Tavistock at Nona or Isleworth you would watch pros get hammered on into the grain shots

Funny you use the Tavistock Cup as an example since I live in Lake Nona (the suburb, not the Country Club). I play on a very nice course in the area, but there is nearly no grass under the ball but the end of the day. And what grass is there is thin, dry, grainy and grabby. It makes for tough shots.

I am in Houston currently and to me this place is soft.

I am used to Scottish links and bought my 60* M grind just for it. here I find some times it doesn't have enough bounce. looking forward to getting back to much harder Scotland at the end of the month.

When I was at Artisan, Mike was saying for hard ground(links) its all about how the leading edge sits on the turf and my M grind was not ideal. He showed me wedges he made for Ancer just for the Open last year.

> @Pepperturbo said:

> Alluding to someone not being able to make a certain club work in diverse conditions is NOT a personal assault. IF anything it's stating a helpful factual condition that should change to improve one's game. Besides, nobody can buy a game. And just because Titleist makes all sorts of wedge configurations doesn't automatically mean if you can't hit one you should buy another and another. Titleist is like most other company's, wants to merchandise. Remember, if we have multiple clubs with differing configurations, each requires extensive practice time.

>

> Learning how to be an effective ball striker with all the clubs in our bag, regardless of conditions, IS, IMO, the goal ALL golfers should chase. Tour players have different sets of clubs for different conditions, as part of their equipment contract. Example, many tour players have sets designed just for Augusta conditions. Notwithstanding when we go to a course, we never know what we're going to face. I use to play interclub team golf at my last club where we visited all sorts of courses. Those conditions required us to be able to play what's in our bag, wherever.

I generally agree with what you are saying. I do think certain wedge grind/bounce characteristics can help you a bit depending on your technique and the kind of turf you play on. I previously used a low bounce lob wedge but the turf I play on now is very soft so switched to some old club I had lying around with a wide sole/high bounce.

But no matter what clubs we put in the bag there is never anything that works perfectly all of the time, and you are correct that we need to hit shots with whatever we have. The fact is, some shots are extremely difficult regardless of whether you could change the club, and knowing when to just hit it 15 feet past the hole is probably better for most than trying to change your wedges because of a few bad shots on certain conditions.

I have the same issues/questions in the 4 Hybrid/high lofted wood/long iron spot. Given certain specifics of the shot I may prefer one over the other. But they all have their drawbacks too, and I've found that just sticking with one club and knowing how it will react / its limitations seems to be working better than playing musical chairs based on the 1 shot that didn't work out last round.

Tight Bermuda lies into the grain (uphill) chip shots? There is no wedge bounce/grind/solution that will help you with those shots. You just have to strike the ball perfectly or hit it thin. You can raise the heel of the clubhead and strike a chip with the toe of the club to minimize turf interaction. Or you can chutt (Texas wedge).

The problem with grainy bermuda is that once you touch the ground it will spring up the grass several inches in front of the clubhead (this is into the grain). So the ball starts going up and forward before the clubhead strikes it. And when it does strike it eventually it will look like the worst chunk in the world; when in reality it would have been a perfect shot in the Midwest US course conditions.

There is a difference between tight lies and tight bermuda lies into the grain; like night and day difference. So please ignore any advice from people who don't play on bermuda. It is a whole different world.

It is a tight lie? A bigger ball will raise the contact point a bit. Get yourself some magna balls.

> @stk123 said:

> Tight Bermuda lies into the grain (uphill) chip shots? There is no wedge bounce/grind/solution that will help you with those shots. You just have to strike the ball perfectly or hit it thin. You can raise the heel of the clubhead and strike a chip with the toe of the club to minimize turf interaction. Or you can chutt (Texas wedge).

>

> The problem with grainy bermuda is that once you touch the ground it will spring up the grass several inches in front of the clubhead (this is into the grain). So the ball starts going up and forward before the clubhead strikes it. And when it does strike it eventually it will look like the worst chunk in the world; when in reality it would have been a perfect shot in the Midwest US course conditions.

>

> There is a difference between tight lies and tight bermuda lies into the grain; like night and day difference. So please ignore any advice from people who don't play on bermuda. It is a whole different world.

Great insight. Thanks so much. And I agree, having come from other turfs, Bermuda is a different animal. It plays slick and lush in the morning down rain, but up grain grabs the club and stops it. Three hours later, after the sun comes up, it goes tight and dormant and makes most any like tricky.

The biggest lesson I'm pulling from this is that I need to get creative with club selection (putter, PW, 7 iron, hybrid, etc. ). A bit more versatile lob wedge may help, but there's more ways to skin a cat around the green.

That hybrid can be a life saver on tight stuff, especially a slight downslope. I have been working on that shot.

Vokey v-grind! Narrow sole with 20 ish degrees of bounce on the front edge for square face shots!