Feedback on my swing

FormerBigDaddyFormerBigDaddy Members Posts: 23 ✭✭
edited Apr 12, 2019 12:01am in Swing Videos and Comments #1

Would have liked to have gotten some outdoor videos but I just wanted to get some quick feedback so hopefully this will do for now.

I feel like I get into a good position at the top but not sure I like how I get there. I also feel like I’m too steep in the downswing. I’m a very inconsistent player...

Comments

  • Fairways_and_GreensFairways_and_Greens Members Posts: 756 ✭✭

    Your head seems to be go more and more towards the target in the backswing. You need some secondary tilt away from the target and turn around your spine.

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  • Frasier CraneFrasier Crane Members Posts: 101 ✭✭

    Agree with you OP, steep on the downswing. One factor I see is that your lead wrist is extremely cupped when I've seen instructors say that it should be flatter.

  • FormerBigDaddyFormerBigDaddy Members Posts: 23 ✭✭

    I think I’m turning to flat with my shoulders. I’ve worked on a steeper shoulder turn where the left shoulder goes more downward in backswing and that get the club going back more on plane at the start of the swing.

    However no matter how I seem to swing going back I just have an extremely difficult time shallowing the club. I know it has to do with my hips. Starting the downswing with hip turn is the most unnatural feeling to me in the world and I feel like I have no power. Probably because my arms aren’t jerking the club down.

  • RobertBaronRobertBaron Posts: 749 ✭✭

    Looks like you have a fake shoulder turn which is probably leading to a goat hump as you try to generate power. You’re basically standing straight up at impact

    I’d work on making a bigger turn and keeping some flex in your right knee through impact.

  • FormerBigDaddyFormerBigDaddy Members Posts: 23 ✭✭

    @RobertBaron said:
    Looks like you have a fake shoulder turn which is probably leading to a goat hump as you try to generate power. You’re basically standing straight up at impact

    I’d work on making a bigger turn and keeping some flex in your right knee through impact.

    When you say fake shoulder turn what do you mean? I’ve struggled for many years to understand how to turn correctly. And yes... the goat humping is something I find incredibly hard to address. This video isn’t even a bad example compared to some of my swings.

  • glkglk send it in jerome Members Posts: 3,288 ✭✭

    Need to shallow shaft and motorcycle - too steep and lead wrist extended and never flexes (thus club face open) which leads to EE and straigthening right arm and and flip.

  • FormerBigDaddyFormerBigDaddy Members Posts: 23 ✭✭

    @glk said:
    Need to shallow shaft and motorcycle - too steep and lead wrist extended and never flexes (thus club face open) which leads to EE and straigthening right arm and and flip.

    What do you mean by motorcycle? Shallowing shaft is easy to say but I really need some good tips on how... I can manipulate the club with my arms all day to shallow the club but I’m not so sure that’s the best way.

  • glkglk send it in jerome Members Posts: 3,288 ✭✭
    edited Apr 12, 2019 1:12pm #9

    @FormerBigDaddy said:

    @glk said:
    Need to shallow shaft and motorcycle - too steep and lead wrist extended and never flexes (thus club face open) which leads to EE and straigthening right arm and and flip.

    What do you mean by motorcycle? Shallowing shaft is easy to say but I really need some good tips on how... I can manipulate the club with my arms all day to shallow the club but I’m not so sure that’s the best way.



  • FormerBigDaddyFormerBigDaddy Members Posts: 23 ✭✭

    Cool I'll check these out as soon as i can... FYI my misses are low hooks and blocks. The ball almost never starts left or straight and then slices.

  • glkglk send it in jerome Members Posts: 3,288 ✭✭

    @FormerBigDaddy said:
    Cool I'll check these out as soon as i can... FYI my misses are low hooks and blocks. The ball almost never starts left or straight and then slices.

    Motorcycle doesn't just fix slices - it balances the move of shallowing which opens the club face - if you were to
    shallow and continue to keep your lead wrist cupped then you'd be hitting blocks/slices - if you want to shallow then you need to motorcycle.
    Tyler Ferrel's Stock Tour Swing book is an excellent resource in understanding what movements balance in the swings. Here is his steep/shallow chart for example

  • The motorcycle move will help you shallow the club. Its nearly impossible to lay the shaft down, in a full swing, with a cupped lead wrist. Take lead arm parallel swings when first learning these new moves.

  • FormerBigDaddyFormerBigDaddy Members Posts: 23 ✭✭

    Will check it out...
    What are your thoughts on my plane going back? I feel like I end up in a good position at the top but it bothers my that the clubhead doesn't travel more through my hands and up from behind. Is this an issue or should I continue to working with what I currently have going back?

  • FormerBigDaddyFormerBigDaddy Members Posts: 23 ✭✭
    edited Apr 12, 2019 3:41pm #14

    @TMoakley1547 said:
    The motorcycle move will help you shallow the club. Its nearly impossible to lay the shaft down, in a full swing, with a cupped lead wrist. Take lead arm parallel swings when first learning these new moves.

    Tell me what you mean by lead arm parallel swings. Half swings?

    Watched the videos... good stuff. New term but I’ve messed with bowing the left wrist before and can implement that fairly easily. In the past I’ve ”motorcycled” early in the backswing. Is that ok for what I want to accomplish?

    Historically bowing my left wrist has cause shots that start on line and turn over left dramatically. But I assume that’s because I was still steep in downswing. From what I gather you guys are saying this motorcycle move will help me shallow out the downswing when I work on that fault? Is any of this going to address the goat humping indirectly?

  • Forget the down swing. Understand the backswing first. By the time you reach P2 or shaft parallel your hands are as high as your belly button and are over your left knee while JT has his hands as low as his balls and are out over past his toes. Basically you don't know how to start your backswing and with an inside takeaway you are dead in the water. Look at Waldron's illusion to understand how the arms really move. It's a great starting point for people like yourself.
    Record yourself trying to use Waldron'd ideas while getting into JT's P2. Inside clubhead = death.

  • FormerBigDaddyFormerBigDaddy Members Posts: 23 ✭✭

    @FullOfBrushMan said:
    Forget the down swing. Understand the backswing first. By the time you reach P2 or shaft parallel your hands are as high as your belly button and are over your left knee while JT has his hands as low as his balls and are out over past his toes. Basically you don't know how to start your backswing and with an inside takeaway you are dead in the water. Look at Waldron's illusion to understand how the arms really move. It's a great starting point for people like yourself.
    Record yourself trying to use Waldron'd ideas while getting into JT's P2. Inside clubhead = death.

    Who exactly is JT? Can you guys tell I'm new around here?

  • glkglk send it in jerome Members Posts: 3,288 ✭✭
    edited Apr 12, 2019 5:00pm #17

    @FormerBigDaddy said:

    @TMoakley1547 said:
    The motorcycle move will help you shallow the club. Its nearly impossible to lay the shaft down, in a full swing, with a cupped lead wrist. Take lead arm parallel swings when first learning these new moves.

    Tell me what you mean by lead arm parallel swings. Half swings?

    Watched the videos... good stuff. New term but I’ve messed with bowing the left wrist before and can implement that fairly easily. In the past I’ve ”motorcycled” early in the backswing. Is that ok for what I want to accomplish?

    Historically bowing my left wrist has cause shots that start on line and turn over left dramatically. But I assume that’s because I was still steep in downswing. From what I gather you guys are saying this motorcycle move will help me shallow out the downswing when I work on that fault? Is any of this going to address the goat humping indirectly?

    @FormerBigDaddy said:

    @FullOfBrushMan said:
    Forget the down swing. Understand the backswing first. By the time you reach P2 or shaft parallel your hands are as high as your belly button and are over your left knee while JT has his hands as low as his balls and are out over past his toes. Basically you don't know how to start your backswing and with an inside takeaway you are dead in the water. Look at Waldron's illusion to understand how the arms really move. It's a great starting point for people like yourself.
    Record yourself trying to use Waldron'd ideas while getting into JT's P2. Inside clubhead = death.

    Who exactly is JT? Can you guys tell I'm new around here?

    Justin Thomas. In any case, the 2 big flaws in your swing are steepening the shaft and keeping your left wrist cupped/extended in the downswing (not motorcycling) and yes they lead to your goat hump - fixing them may improve it but there are other potential things that might need to change based on how you go about changing those items. It can be very frustrating piecing it together on one's own. Best/fastest way to improve your swing is to find a quality instructor. In person is obviously best, online is a good alternative if you don't have someone good
    locally - Monte and iteach (Dan Carraher) are both really good and online with them would be worth the money - around $50-$75.
    I'd add that for $25 on Amazon you can get Tyler's Stock Tour Swing book and it would go a long way toward helping you understand the swing. https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1604588/the-stock-tour-swing-by-tyler-ferrell-excellent-swing-instruction-book/p1

  • @FormerBigDaddy said:

    @FullOfBrushMan said:
    Forget the down swing. Understand the backswing first. By the time you reach P2 or shaft parallel your hands are as high as your belly button and are over your left knee while JT has his hands as low as his balls and are out over past his toes. Basically you don't know how to start your backswing and with an inside takeaway you are dead in the water. Look at Waldron's illusion to understand how the arms really move. It's a great starting point for people like yourself.
    Record yourself trying to use Waldron'd ideas while getting into JT's P2. Inside clubhead = death.

    Who exactly is JT? Can you guys tell I'm new around here?

    There is a video of Justin Thomas in this thread starting at P2. Also agreed with GLK with iTeach or Monte but please come from a humble point and ask about fundamentals and what moves where etc.

  • FormerBigDaddyFormerBigDaddy Members Posts: 23 ✭✭

    @glk said:

    @FormerBigDaddy said:

    @TMoakley1547 said:
    The motorcycle move will help you shallow the club. Its nearly impossible to lay the shaft down, in a full swing, with a cupped lead wrist. Take lead arm parallel swings when first learning these new moves.

    Tell me what you mean by lead arm parallel swings. Half swings?

    Watched the videos... good stuff. New term but I’ve messed with bowing the left wrist before and can implement that fairly easily. In the past I’ve ”motorcycled” early in the backswing. Is that ok for what I want to accomplish?

    Historically bowing my left wrist has cause shots that start on line and turn over left dramatically. But I assume that’s because I was still steep in downswing. From what I gather you guys are saying this motorcycle move will help me shallow out the downswing when I work on that fault? Is any of this going to address the goat humping indirectly?

    @FormerBigDaddy said:

    @FullOfBrushMan said:
    Forget the down swing. Understand the backswing first. By the time you reach P2 or shaft parallel your hands are as high as your belly button and are over your left knee while JT has his hands as low as his balls and are out over past his toes. Basically you don't know how to start your backswing and with an inside takeaway you are dead in the water. Look at Waldron's illusion to understand how the arms really move. It's a great starting point for people like yourself.
    Record yourself trying to use Waldron'd ideas while getting into JT's P2. Inside clubhead = death.

    Who exactly is JT? Can you guys tell I'm new around here?

    Justin Thomas. In any case, the 2 big flaws in your swing are steepening the shaft and keeping your left wrist cupped/extended in the downswing (not motorcycling) and yes they lead to your goat hump - fixing them may improve it but there are other potential things that might need to change based on how you go about changing those items. It can be very frustrating piecing it together on one's own. Best/fastest way to improve your swing is to find a quality instructor. In person is obviously best, online is a good alternative if you don't have someone good locally - Monte and iteach (Dan Carraher) are both really good and online with them would be worth the money - around $50-$75.

    What are your thoughts on my backswing? Is it contributing to the problem? I'm no golf teacher but my position at the top looks ok... however couldn't the initial inside path of my backswing be a issue as to why i get so steep in the downswing?

  • glkglk send it in jerome Members Posts: 3,288 ✭✭

    @FormerBigDaddy said:

    @glk said:

    @FormerBigDaddy said:

    @TMoakley1547 said:
    The motorcycle move will help you shallow the club. Its nearly impossible to lay the shaft down, in a full swing, with a cupped lead wrist. Take lead arm parallel swings when first learning these new moves.

    Tell me what you mean by lead arm parallel swings. Half swings?

    Watched the videos... good stuff. New term but I’ve messed with bowing the left wrist before and can implement that fairly easily. In the past I’ve ”motorcycled” early in the backswing. Is that ok for what I want to accomplish?

    Historically bowing my left wrist has cause shots that start on line and turn over left dramatically. But I assume that’s because I was still steep in downswing. From what I gather you guys are saying this motorcycle move will help me shallow out the downswing when I work on that fault? Is any of this going to address the goat humping indirectly?

    @FormerBigDaddy said:

    @FullOfBrushMan said:
    Forget the down swing. Understand the backswing first. By the time you reach P2 or shaft parallel your hands are as high as your belly button and are over your left knee while JT has his hands as low as his balls and are out over past his toes. Basically you don't know how to start your backswing and with an inside takeaway you are dead in the water. Look at Waldron's illusion to understand how the arms really move. It's a great starting point for people like yourself.
    Record yourself trying to use Waldron'd ideas while getting into JT's P2. Inside clubhead = death.

    Who exactly is JT? Can you guys tell I'm new around here?

    Justin Thomas. In any case, the 2 big flaws in your swing are steepening the shaft and keeping your left wrist cupped/extended in the downswing (not motorcycling) and yes they lead to your goat hump - fixing them may improve it but there are other potential things that might need to change based on how you go about changing those items. It can be very frustrating piecing it together on one's own. Best/fastest way to improve your swing is to find a quality instructor. In person is obviously best, online is a good alternative if you don't have someone good locally - Monte and iteach (Dan Carraher) are both really good and online with them would be worth the money - around $50-$75.

    What are your thoughts on my backswing? Is it contributing to the problem? I'm no golf teacher but my position at the top looks ok... however couldn't the initial inside path of my backswing be a issue as to why i get so steep in the downswing?

    I personally like the idea of focusing on transition/release (something I picked up from Tyler) and allowing it to guide backswing changes (unless you have a problematic backswing motion, like very flat shoulder turn, too long arm swing, getting clubhead inside too early, . . . ) That said, from just your dtl video (the angle is a bit to the right versus dead on the hands) I don't see anything that really stands out as a problem that should be resolved before moving onto improving the transition/release.
    On your question, I speculate that the steepening is more due to over use of the upper body early in the transition versus your backswing position - more pulling the arms versus using the lower body to initiate arm movement (and in this sense it could be a backswing issue - failure to load the lower body makes it difficult to have it lead the transition - Tiger wasn't kidding about glutes not firing, lol).
    Another thing to consider is to take a free 7 day trial of Tyler's website - he has almost a thousand short, focused videos categorized by swing phase (and by concept, drill, etc).

  • FormerBigDaddyFormerBigDaddy Members Posts: 23 ✭✭
    edited Apr 12, 2019 5:28pm #21

    @FullOfBrushMan said:
    Forget the down swing. Understand the backswing first. By the time you reach P2 or shaft parallel your hands are as high as your belly button and are over your left knee while JT has his hands as low as his balls and are out over past his toes. Basically you don't know how to start your backswing and with an inside takeaway you are dead in the water. Look at Waldron's illusion to understand how the arms really move. It's a great starting point for people like yourself.
    Record yourself trying to use Waldron'd ideas while getting into JT's P2. Inside clubhead = death.

    You're 100% right, i have no idea how to start my backswing. I've tried a lot of ways... The million dollar question is why do I get the club inside and how the heck does JT have his hands that low and over his toes but the clubhead so high? Steeper shoulder turn? More wrist **** or hinge? Lifting arms somehow?

    The funny thing is I can look in a mirror in get into those positions looking back but as soon as i look down at the ball i can't "feel" how to get into that position. I even have this device called the swing plane perfector... i can get the club in the right positions on that thing all day but just like the mirror, when i look down i don't know where to start. I've tried to simplify things recently but just focusing on turning my shoulders in backswing and not focusing on hands and arms but that's obviously not the right thing to be doing. I hit a lot of balls, i video myself, and i've watched a million videos. Heck i've been trying to "get on plane" for 20 years. Ever feel paralyzed over the ball? I feel that way a lot. I know I need to get lessons but time and funds are an issue. Sorry for venting.

  • glkglk send it in jerome Members Posts: 3,288 ✭✭
    edited Apr 12, 2019 6:21pm #22

    @FormerBigDaddy said:

    @FullOfBrushMan said:
    Forget the down swing. Understand the backswing first. By the time you reach P2 or shaft parallel your hands are as high as your belly button and are over your left knee while JT has his hands as low as his balls and are out over past his toes. Basically you don't know how to start your backswing and with an inside takeaway you are dead in the water. Look at Waldron's illusion to understand how the arms really move. It's a great starting point for people like yourself.
    Record yourself trying to use Waldron'd ideas while getting into JT's P2. Inside clubhead = death.

    You're 100% right, i have no idea how to start my backswing. I've tried a lot of ways... The million dollar question is why do I get the club inside and how the heck does JT have his hands that low and over his toes but the clubhead so high? Steeper shoulder turn? More wrist **** or hinge? Lifting arms somehow?

    The funny thing is I can look in a mirror in get into those positions looking back but as soon as i look down at the ball i can't "feel" how to get into that position. I even have this device called the swing plane perfector... i can get the club in the right positions on that thing all day but just like the mirror, when i look down i don't know where to start. I've tried to simplify things recently but just focusing on turning my shoulders in backswing and not focusing on hands and arms but that's obviously not the right thing to be doing. I hit a lot of balls, i video myself, and i've watched a million videos. Heck i've been trying to "get on plane" for 20 years. Ever feel paralyzed over the ball? I feel that way a lot. I know I need to get lessons but time and funds are an issue. Sorry for venting.

    One of my go to drills is with an alignment stick - works for takeaway, backswing, and downswing. idea is to keep it touching your lead side until about shaft parallel at which point you drag it down your lead thigh and have it point somewhere between your toes and the ball. Can hit balls doing this but best to do slow swings.
    On takeway it stops early rolling of the forearms (something I didn't see in your swing) and gets you to set the wrists better - also the closer to your feet the more vertical the shaft in the backswing which helps when training shallowing , ie gets you going steep to shallow - it might feel like you are making a loop but there won't be a loop in the swing - key is to have relaxed arms/shoulders, arm tension kills the swing, relaxed not wet noodle.

  • @FormerBigDaddy said:

    @FullOfBrushMan said:
    Forget the down swing. Understand the backswing first. By the time you reach P2 or shaft parallel your hands are as high as your belly button and are over your left knee while JT has his hands as low as his balls and are out over past his toes. Basically you don't know how to start your backswing and with an inside takeaway you are dead in the water. Look at Waldron's illusion to understand how the arms really move. It's a great starting point for people like yourself.
    Record yourself trying to use Waldron'd ideas while getting into JT's P2. Inside clubhead = death.

    You're 100% right, i have no idea how to start my backswing. I've tried a lot of ways... The million dollar question is why do I get the club inside and how the heck does JT have his hands that low and over his toes but the clubhead so high? Steeper shoulder turn? More wrist **** or hinge? Lifting arms somehow?

    The funny thing is I can look in a mirror in get into those positions looking back but as soon as i look down at the ball i can't "feel" how to get into that position. I even have this device called the swing plane perfector... i can get the club in the right positions on that thing all day but just like the mirror, when i look down i don't know where to start. I've tried to simplify things recently but just focusing on turning my shoulders in backswing and not focusing on hands and arms but that's obviously not the right thing to be doing. I hit a lot of balls, i video myself, and i've watched a million videos. Heck i've been trying to "get on plane" for 20 years. Ever feel paralyzed over the ball? I feel that way a lot. I know I need to get lessons but time and funds are an issue. Sorry for venting.


    Literally just watch that. It's pretty self explanatory.
    As far as what I do, I record myself trying stuff and say "hands straight up" as the feeling, or "right arm push" and do 10-15 with slow-mo on and see where I am and go back and forth between recording and trying stuff out. My my feel is typically doesn't even come close to what happens irl BUT it allows me to look at video and start eliminating wrong feels.

  • RobertBaronRobertBaron Posts: 749 ✭✭

    @FormerBigDaddy said:

    @RobertBaron said:
    Looks like you have a fake shoulder turn which is probably leading to a goat hump as you try to generate power. You’re basically standing straight up at impact

    I’d work on making a bigger turn and keeping some flex in your right knee through impact.

    When you say fake shoulder turn what do you mean? I’ve struggled for many years to understand how to turn correctly. And yes... the goat humping is something I find incredibly hard to address. This video isn’t even a bad example compared to some of my swings.

    Basically a fake turn is just not making a full turn. You turn your shoulders a bit, but unless you have something limiting your mobility, it looks like you have more turn left in the tank. Without a lot of lateral and up and down movement you should be able to turn your shoulders and essentially see the ball to the left of your left shoulder at the top of the swing.

    Another way to visualize is to take an overhead view. At address your shoulders are aligned with the target line (in theory, some align more open or closed). That is 0 degrees of turn. A full turn is about 90 degrees so at the top of the swing, your shoulders will be perpendicular to the target line.

    Without seeing an overhead view of the swing I’d estimate your turn somewhere around 50-75 degrees

  • FormerBigDaddyFormerBigDaddy Members Posts: 23 ✭✭

    Ok so here is a new video. Only 2 things I tried to do different was a steeper shoulder turn (left shoulder more down) and trying to bow my left wrist. Let me know your thoughts on this one.

  • @FormerBigDaddy said:
    Ok so here is a new video. Only 2 things I tried to do different was a steeper shoulder turn (left shoulder more down) and trying to bow my left wrist. Let me know your thoughts on this one.

    Post a Face On. It's where the real flaws are exposed. Also when shooting video down the line put the phone/camera angle right on your nipples, this seems to be on the ball or just inside of it, it needs to be more left aka the ribcage or just outside of it.

    Also you aren't going to correct your swing in a few videos and you are still doing the same thing. All arms & hands.

  • FormerBigDaddyFormerBigDaddy Members Posts: 23 ✭✭
    edited Apr 12, 2019 7:37pm #27

    @FullOfBrushMan said:

    @FormerBigDaddy said:
    Ok so here is a new video. Only 2 things I tried to do different was a steeper shoulder turn (left shoulder more down) and trying to bow my left wrist. Let me know your thoughts on this one.

    Post a Face On. It's where the real flaws are exposed. Also when shooting video down the line put the phone/camera angle right on your nipples, this seems to be on the ball or just inside of it, it needs to be more left aka the ribcage or just outside of it.

    Also you aren't going to correct your swing in a few videos and you are still doing the same thing. All arms & hands.

    Yeah I’ve been swinging like **** for 20 years I don’t expect to fix it overnight. However I was just trying to show a different way that I’ve swung the club going back in the past and just get some feedback on which backswing is a better starting point. I realize nothing much changed in 2nd video after the backswing...

    I tried to set the camera at my hands but next time I’ll tried to angle it further inside.

  • @FormerBigDaddy said:

    @FullOfBrushMan said:

    @FormerBigDaddy said:
    Ok so here is a new video. Only 2 things I tried to do different was a steeper shoulder turn (left shoulder more down) and trying to bow my left wrist. Let me know your thoughts on this one.

    Post a Face On. It's where the real flaws are exposed. Also when shooting video down the line put the phone/camera angle right on your nipples, this seems to be on the ball or just inside of it, it needs to be more left aka the ribcage or just outside of it.

    Also you aren't going to correct your swing in a few videos and you are still doing the same thing. All arms & hands.

    Yeah I’ve been swinging like **** for 20 years I don’t expect to fix it overnight. However I was just trying to show a different way that I’ve swung the club going back in the past and just get some feedback on which backswing is a better starting point. I realize nothing much changed in 2nd video after the backswing...

    I tried to set the camera at my hands but next time I’ll tried to angle it further inside.

    Just post a face on video.

  • BB28403BB28403 Members Posts: 3,057 ✭✭

    Seems to me you need hands on fundamentals from the beginning. Don't worry Im sure you will progress thru lessons really fast. Just click thru whatever a good instructor says step by step and you will have your AHA moments along the way.
    At the moment it feels like you are standing in quicksand, you try this and try that and you slip more and more.
    when you have good instruction of the basics, it is like you are standing on stairs, if you go down one stair. You not only know what you did wrong, you climb the step really fast.
    anyhow, try some lessons from a pro in person.

  • Frasier CraneFrasier Crane Members Posts: 101 ✭✭
    edited Apr 14, 2019 7:08am #30

    The 2nd video looks better, at least in the backswing.

    You're definitely over-swinging IMO... pause your 2nd video at 0:06... I'd start the transition to the downswing from that position.

    On the downswing, it looks like you're using all of your energy to pull the club with your left arm, instead of using your right arm to power the club. I've often heard the "skipping the stone" metaphor to describe what the feeling should be like.... use your right arm to power the club on the downswing instead of the left arm.

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