THE FADE

cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5'sTasmania to CanadaMembers Posts: 12,502 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

Has the fade become the preferred / prized / reliable shot again? I'd say after Nicklaus and Trevino the golf world went to the draw
Now we have Tiger, DJ, Brooks, Rhambo, etc etc hitting it long .... with a power fade that moves a little L to R. Bubba as well - from the wrong side
Am I off on a tangent here????

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Comments

  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX Posts: 24,811 ClubWRX

    Interesting observation UC. Probably the only drawer of the ball among the power group is Rory.

  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,926 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Draw vs fade is pretty evenly split on tour. It’s more about what each individual does better

  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Tasmania to CanadaMembers Posts: 12,502 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Dan
    Are you a proponent of a top player being able to move his 3w and 1w in opposite directions. ie the driver is the fade stick and the 3-dub is for draws?
    Kind of like carrying two sand wedges with diff levels of bounce ....

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  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Tasmania to CanadaMembers Posts: 12,502 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @iteachgolf said:
    Draw vs fade is pretty evenly split on tour. It’s more about what each individual does better

    My observation is the fade used to be accepted as a control shot and didn't go as far, but now it does. Lots of that shape with LD guys as well

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  • gentlesgentles Members Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @iteachgolf said:

    @cardoustie said:
    Dan
    Are you a proponent of a top player being able to move his 3w and 1w in opposite directions. ie the driver is the fade stick and the 3-dub is for draws?
    Kind of like carrying two sand wedges with diff levels of bounce ....

    I done prescribe carrying wedges with different levels of bounce and I prefer player to be relatively one dimensional. They only move it against their stock shot when it’s absolutely necessary. They all can move it both ways, you just almost never NEED to.

    I love this advice. IMO for non-pro golfers, not being able to move the ball both ways is a loooong way down the list of things holding them back. If you like to hit a fade, just hit that 100% of the time rather than trying to fit a shot to the hole. Dogleg left? Fade it over the corner or just hit something short of the dogleg and move on. Back left pin? Aim for the middle and go to the next hole. Worst thing that can happen is a double cross which is much more common when trying to go against your natural shape.

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  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Tasmania to CanadaMembers Posts: 12,502 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with Gentles, golf can be played very well when your miss is always in one direction

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  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Apr 17, 2019 3:02pm #9

    The old Trevino line about being able to talk to a fade always made sense to me.

    For whatever reason, a fade always seemed to carry the same type of trajectory with the variation being how much curve I was putting on it that particular day. With the draw drive (which I always felt was harder) the misses always contained a certain degree of trajectory variation, thus you'd start seeing the occasional low hook.

    Maybe it's as simple as that? Draws turn into low hooks while fades turn into high cuts with the former not being playable? Still, it's common for most players to leak it right with longer clubs. I think the advent of 45" drivers has limited a lot of players confidence in turning it over.

    I've also wondered how much newer driver tech has affected this. I think I recall hearing Phil Mickelson express the same thought, namely, that a golfer in modern times can readily call upon a low-spin fade and thus the shot isn't necessarily giving anything up these days.

    Still, I don't think any of that applies to irons where most reasonably good players tend to hit a tight little draw and work the ball as needed.

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  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @iteachgolf said:

    @cardoustie said:
    Dan
    Are you a proponent of a top player being able to move his 3w and 1w in opposite directions. ie the driver is the fade stick and the 3-dub is for draws?
    Kind of like carrying two sand wedges with diff levels of bounce ....

    I done prescribe carrying wedges with different levels of bounce and I prefer player to be relatively one dimensional. They only move it against their stock shot when it’s absolutely necessary. They all can move it both ways, you just almost never NEED to.

    Anything to be said on a teed up ball more likely to fade due to AofA/Swing direction such that one might hit a small cut with the driver and draw everything hit off the ground?

  • BuzzkillBuzzkill Marshals Posts: 6,888 mod

    Would love to be able to hit a fade BUT it's not in my DNA. I've tried to teach myself numerous times over 40 years with no success. It's not a simple swing path, grip or club face thing for me.

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  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,926 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Krt22 said:

    @iteachgolf said:

    @cardoustie said:
    Dan
    Are you a proponent of a top player being able to move his 3w and 1w in opposite directions. ie the driver is the fade stick and the 3-dub is for draws?
    Kind of like carrying two sand wedges with diff levels of bounce ....

    I done prescribe carrying wedges with different levels of bounce and I prefer player to be relatively one dimensional. They only move it against their stock shot when it’s absolutely necessary. They all can move it both ways, you just almost never NEED to.

    Anything to be said on a teed up ball more likely to fade due to AofA/Swing direction such that one might hit a small cut with the driver and draw everything hit off the ground?

    Very common. Bubba is an example

  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Tasmania to CanadaMembers Posts: 12,502 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    iteach
    answer me this sir. Why can I readily hit a 40 yard hook on recovery shots with irons but not 40 yard fades. I've heard the pro's say the same

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  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,926 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @cardoustie said:
    iteach
    answer me this sir. Why can I readily hit a 40 yard hook on recovery shots with irons but not 40 yard fades. I've heard the pro's say the same

    Spin loft.

  • Mike_CMike_C Members Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @cardoustie said:
    I agree with Gentles, golf can be played very well when your miss is always in one direction

    Golf is a lot EASIER if your miss is always in one direction.

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  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Tasmania to CanadaMembers Posts: 12,502 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @iteachgolf said:

    @cardoustie said:
    iteach
    answer me this sir. Why can I readily hit a 40 yard hook on recovery shots with irons but not 40 yard fades. I've heard the pro's say the same

    Spin loft.

    Meaning you are delofting to hit a hook (I do with a dead shut face) and a fade you are adding loft? Makes sense

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  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Guys don’t curve the ball as much as tv lets on. At least not on purpose unless it’s some sort of recovery shot for the most part. All I heard back in the day was how Freddie hit a fade and so did Duval then when I saw them in person everything was almost a draw albeit slight. Most guys hit essentially a straight ball that drops a hair one way or the other.

  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Tasmania to CanadaMembers Posts: 12,502 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @BiggErn said:
    Guys don’t curve the ball as much as tv lets on. At least not on purpose unless it’s some sort of recovery shot for the most part. All I heard back in the day was how Freddie hit a fade and so did Duval then when I saw them in person everything was almost a draw albeit slight. Most guys hit essentially a straight ball that drops a hair one way or the other.

    That is my experience as well. From both watching top level tour players and also playing with them
    I call 15 yards a draw .. they call it 3 ...

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  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Open Championship! IowaClubWRX Posts: 18,281 ClubWRX

    @Buzzkill said:
    Would love to be able to hit a fade BUT it's not in my DNA. I've tried to teach myself numerous times over 40 years with no success. It's not a simple swing path, grip or club face thing for me.

    Ditto - insert draw, lol!

  • BuzzkillBuzzkill Marshals Posts: 6,888 mod

    @Tremendous Slouch said:

    @Buzzkill said:
    Would love to be able to hit a fade BUT it's not in my DNA. I've tried to teach myself numerous times over 40 years with no success. It's not a simple swing path, grip or club face thing for me.

    Hitting the ball higher may help.

    Ok!

    @Hawkeye77 said:

    @Buzzkill said:
    Would love to be able to hit a fade BUT it's not in my DNA. I've tried to teach myself numerous times over 40 years with no success. It's not a simple swing path, grip or club face thing for me.

    Ditto - insert draw, lol!

    Lol!

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  • ObeeObee ClubWRX Posts: 3,802 ClubWRX

    @iteachgolf said:
    Draw vs fade is pretty evenly split on tour. It’s more about what each individual does better

    Dan, I seem to see plenty of top players who prefer to move their longer clubs a bit L to R and their shorter clubs they are comfortable either putting a baby cut on it, but mostly a little draw from 9i to full LW. Am I wrong there?

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  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,926 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Lots of guys draw short irons and fade driver.

  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Tasmania to CanadaMembers Posts: 12,502 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Funny
    I like knockdown fades with short irons and draw the driver

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  • ObeeObee ClubWRX Posts: 3,802 ClubWRX

    @iteachgolf said:
    Lots of guys draw short irons and fade driver.

    Why don't we see this as more of an "instructed" thing? It's always been intuitive to me, but I don't really see it being "taught" per se. Not a knock on anyone really. More just an observation.

    Sight lines and set-up are so different from a draw to a fade that it's a big "jump" if you are trying to draw your driver your whole life and then an instructor says: "yeah, let's go with a fade" and teaches the student something new. I see lots of decent players can make the switch on the range, but then under the gun, the "new" shot deserts them and they abandon it.

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  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,926 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Obee said:

    @iteachgolf said:
    Lots of guys draw short irons and fade driver.

    Why don't we see this as more of an "instructed" thing? It's always been intuitive to me, but I don't really see it being "taught" per se. Not a knock on anyone really. More just an observation.

    Sight lines and set-up are so different from a draw to a fade that it's a big "jump" if you are trying to draw your driver your whole life and then an instructor says: "yeah, let's go with a fade" and teaches the student something new. I see lots of decent players can make the switch on the range, but then under the gun, the "new" shot deserts them and they abandon it.

    I’d say the majority of my players play that pattern. Been talked about on here for years

  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @MelloYello said:
    The old Trevino line about being able to talk to a fade always made sense to me.

    For whatever reason, a fade always seemed to carry the same type of trajectory with the variation being how much curve I was putting on it that particular day. With the draw drive (which I always felt was harder) the misses always contained a certain degree of trajectory variation, thus you'd start seeing the occasional low hook.

    Maybe it's as simple as that? Draws turn into low hooks while fades turn into high cuts with the former not being playable? Still, it's common for most players to leak it right with longer clubs. I think the advent of 45" drivers has limited a lot of players confidence in turning it over.

    I've also wondered how much newer driver tech has affected this. I think I recall hearing Phil Mickelson express the same thought, namely, that a golfer in modern times can readily call upon a low-spin fade and thus the shot isn't necessarily giving anything up these days.

    Still, I don't think any of that applies to irons where most reasonably good players tend to hit a tight little draw and work the ball as needed.

    Isn't it funny how some things stick in our minds ? Trevino's line was ""You can talk to a fade but a hook won't listen.". Unfortunately he wasn't talking about direct opposites. The opposite of a fade is a draw, not a hook.

    The thing that has always stuck in my mind and has been extremely hard to "overcome" is "Nobody ever hit the ball in their backswing".

    But yep, I think it is that simple. The left-to-right shot (for righties of course) generally flies higher and lands softer and therefore, once you hit to your target not too much can go wrong from there. The right-to-lefter generally flies lower and runs out more so,,,,,,,,,,

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  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    What do they say, "You can talk to a fade but a hook will never listen?"
    My take - With the trackman/launch monitor optimization going on guys can get the most distance by hitting it higher. In persimmon era a high shot meant a ballooning shot with too much spin. A low draw runs. A high draw is tough to accomplish IME.

  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU Members Posts: 7,435 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd almost give up right'y to never see the ball go left again... I am sure there is something a little less personal I can sacrifice though.

    I know my swing problem. I just cant seem to change it.

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  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I've starting hitting cuts with the driver and playing around with things at the range and can hit these 1-2yard fall off fades. In general they seem much more predictable. It really grinds my gears to have a short iron in hand, setup for a small draw, and then hit a boomerang hook

  • KevinnzKevinnz Members Posts: 273 ✭✭✭✭

    Fade spin jst somehow roll less than its counterpart, makes it easier to hold on the fast greens. It requires a bit more body rotation through the impact zone with less arm and hard motion, so slightly more consistent.

  • JustsomeguyJustsomeguy Members Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Only in year 5. But in the first few years my driver was always a fade, and the irons I made good contact w were draws. I theorized that I should have a draw off the tee for more roll, and got there. Then decided to try playing a fade with irons so that it would stop easier on the greens.
    It ruined my iron ballstriking for well over 6 mos. Just got back to not shanking an embarrassing amount, but I've got my iron fade. Although now the driver is a fade too, unless I really channel draw.
    Not that happy with it ultimately. Not a huge distance player. Should have been happy to draw everything and just play for rollout. 6i went from 165 to 150ish.
    Suspect path has become much more out to in. Hard to measure, but going backwards from flight to ballflight laws, what else could it be.

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