Wilson Staff Fluid Feel 87-88?

LaymanMLaymanM Cincinnati, OHMembers Posts: 2,123 ✭✭

Hey guys! Picked up a set of Wilson Staff Fluid Feel irons. 2-SW for $19.99!

Look to be regular flex. I think they are 87-88 model??? What can you guys tell me about them? I can’t find any lie/loft info online. They seem short in length as well.

At a minimum I want to get lie/lifts fixed and then install new grips. Possibly reshaft but can’t seem to find shaft plugs anywhere online.

What can you guys tell me about these clubs? Thank you


PING G410 9* PX Evenflow Black 75 6.0
PING G410 LST 3w PX Evenflow Black 85 6.0
PING G410 5w PX Evenflow Black 85 6.0
PING G410 4-PW AWT 2 0 stiff
PING Stealth Glide 2.0 50ss/54ss/58ss
PING Sigam G Tyne

Comments

  • LaymanMLaymanM Cincinnati, OHMembers Posts: 2,123 ✭✭

    Anyone know loft/lie specs? Would be a huge help. Clubs play nice. Easy to hit and tight disperisom. Regular flex doesn't seem to bother me. not the longest bit lofts are weak.

    PING G410 9* PX Evenflow Black 75 6.0
    PING G410 LST 3w PX Evenflow Black 85 6.0
    PING G410 5w PX Evenflow Black 85 6.0
    PING G410 4-PW AWT 2 0 stiff
    PING Stealth Glide 2.0 50ss/54ss/58ss
    PING Sigam G Tyne
  • SwingingkSwingingk ClubWRX Posts: 579 ClubWRX

    That's a good deal on a nice set of irons. And the sand wedge! Cool. As for the specs I couldn't say for sure but I'd assume a 50 degree PW to a 20 degree 2 iron - or there-abouts. About a club shorter by number than modern players irons I'd think.

  • LaymanMLaymanM Cincinnati, OHMembers Posts: 2,123 ✭✭

    @Swingingk said:
    That's a good deal on a nice set of irons. And the sand wedge! Cool. As for the specs I couldn't say for sure but I'd assume a 50 degree PW to a 20 degree 2 iron - or there-abouts. About a club shorter by number than modern players irons I'd think.

    Worth reshafting or regrip?
    Which I knew the lie angles...

    PING G410 9* PX Evenflow Black 75 6.0
    PING G410 LST 3w PX Evenflow Black 85 6.0
    PING G410 5w PX Evenflow Black 85 6.0
    PING G410 4-PW AWT 2 0 stiff
    PING Stealth Glide 2.0 50ss/54ss/58ss
    PING Sigam G Tyne
  • gsea33gsea33 Members Posts: 684 ✭✭

    This is for my 65 set. Bet they are close
    Wilson Dynapowers
    2i  21  38.5"   57
    3i  24    38      58
    4i  27   37.5    59
    5i  31    37   60
    6i  35   36.5    61
    7i  39   36.25  62
    8i  43   35.75  63
    9i  47   35.25  63
    P   51   35.25  64
    S   55   35.25  64

    Titleist 975D 10.5
    Titleist 975F 14.5
    Titleist 975F 20.5
    Ping Eye 2 2, 4-SW BECU
    Titleist Acushnet Bullseye

  • SwingingkSwingingk ClubWRX Posts: 579 ClubWRX

    @LaymanM said:

    @Swingingk said:
    That's a good deal on a nice set of irons. And the sand wedge! Cool. As for the specs I couldn't say for sure but I'd assume a 50 degree PW to a 20 degree 2 iron - or there-abouts. About a club shorter by number than modern players irons I'd think.

    Worth reshafting or regrip?
    Which I knew the lie angles...

    I'd agree with gsea33 in the post above for the specs. Wilson stayed pretty close to the same specs in their pro-model stuff for a long time.

    As for regripping, definitely! Reshafting? Not so much. Fluid-Feel irons are notoriously difficult to reshaft properly. Not impossible, but hard enough to probably not be worth it. Don't let me stop you though, as we all love seeing pictures of folks tinkering!

    Ps: some chrome polish and elbow grease with the super-fine steel wool will make your set shine like new. Don't forget to show us the "after cleanup" pics!

  • elwhippyelwhippy Members Posts: 3,111 ✭✭

    I have a PW and SW. £3 each in local charity store. Great clubs. SW very useful from soft sand.

  • James the Hogan FanJames the Hogan Fan Members Posts: 432 ✭✭

    You will never get the shafts out. Sorry, it’s not happening :smiley: I tried on the PW of my set and just melted the plug and hosel. Then I decided to let it be. If you want to save the shafts its going to be a pain. The cut and bore method will probably work fine but I needed the shafts.

    That aside, I actually haven’t hit mine and put them in storage. Not sure what I’m gonna do with them.

    Golfing in Finland!
  • ShallowfaceShallowface Members Posts: 1,452 ✭✭
    edited Apr 19, 2019 12:04pm #9

    This chart is from the 1988 Catalog. My earliest catalog is from 1980 (I have them from 1960, 1967 and 1968, but those don't help here), and the 1988 specs are the same as those from 1980. The Kaplan book has specs from 1970 (but nothing else from the 70s), and since those pretty much match those listed above it is difficult to say exactly when they were changed. The specs were tweaked slightly with the introduction of the 1991 Tour Blade.

  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Allez Allez Allez Minnesota, USAMembers Posts: 6,275 ✭✭

    Shallow, once again you are The Man

    The Ever Changing Bag!

    Driver: Cobra King LTD, ProtoPype 80x or RIP 80x, 43.5" -or- SuperDeep 9.5*, ProtoPype 80x or NV85x, 43.5"
    3w: Cobra King LTD, Motore F1 85 X, 42.5"
    1 iron: Maxfli Revolution, DGS400
    2-PW, Golden Ram Tour Grind, Dynamic S
    SW: Ram Tour Grind Feel Matched 58*, DGS
    Putter: Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34.5", PP58 midsize grip
    (Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35" -or- Mizuno TPM-2, 35" as backups)
    Balls: in no particular order... Wilson Staff FG Tour, Duo Urethane, or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar/ZStar XV, Snell MTB Black... will trot out Maxfli HT-100 or Elite 90 from time to time
    Shoes by True Linkswear
  • wkuo3wkuo3 RELEASE Members Posts: 3,852 ✭✭

    Pitting on he chrome finishing on the exterior of the shaft will be the least concern for me.
    Shine a flash light into the shaft after you removed the grip and if it's rusted then I would not bother to invest additional money into grip unless you're thinking of re-shaft.

  • LaymanMLaymanM Cincinnati, OHMembers Posts: 2,123 ✭✭

    I found a really nice set of Wilson Staff FG Tour 100 blades so I do not think I will be spending any money on these at the moment.

    Good tip about inside of the shafts.

    PING G410 9* PX Evenflow Black 75 6.0
    PING G410 LST 3w PX Evenflow Black 85 6.0
    PING G410 5w PX Evenflow Black 85 6.0
    PING G410 4-PW AWT 2 0 stiff
    PING Stealth Glide 2.0 50ss/54ss/58ss
    PING Sigam G Tyne
  • rex235rex235 ClubWRX Posts: 3,987 ClubWRX

    Layman-
    The '87-88 Wilson Staff Model "Fluid Feel" irons brought back the drill thru hosel, part of their
    iconic Staff Dynapower series, from 1957-1975.
    In 1988-89, Wilson went with including the "W/S" Shield logo stamp with this model.
    Sadly these, like your 2014 Wilson Staff FG Tour 100 Forged model irons, are RH Only.

  • LaymanMLaymanM Cincinnati, OHMembers Posts: 2,123 ✭✭

    Rex, thanks for the info. Gonna hold onto the Fluid Feel Staff and put the FG Tour 100 into practice and fun play. I normally game G410 irons but who knows. I've played blades on and off the last few years. My scores do not change much regardless of what irons I'm playing. Usually 78-82.

    My FG Tours are only 5-PW. So need to figure out 3/4 position and wedges as my current set are too strong.

    At some point I'm gonna try to pull the heads on the 87 Staffs. Will be a fun project but need to get a worldbench set up in my new place. (Joy's of divorce lol)

    PING G410 9* PX Evenflow Black 75 6.0
    PING G410 LST 3w PX Evenflow Black 85 6.0
    PING G410 5w PX Evenflow Black 85 6.0
    PING G410 4-PW AWT 2 0 stiff
    PING Stealth Glide 2.0 50ss/54ss/58ss
    PING Sigam G Tyne
  • ShallowfaceShallowface Members Posts: 1,452 ✭✭

    @rex235 said:
    Layman-
    The '87-88 Wilson Staff Model "Fluid Feel" irons brought back the drill thru hosel, part of their
    iconic Staff Dynapower series, from 1957-1975.
    In 1988-89, Wilson went with including the "W/S" Shield logo stamp with this model.
    Sadly these, like your 2014 Wilson Staff FG Tour 100 Forged model irons, are RH Only.

    Rex, the 84-85 Fluid Feels had the drill through hosel. They were the first since 1975.
    That which we are referring to as the "87-88" model was first available in 1986. The shield logo was added in 1989.
    I have the catalogs for all of those models, and according to the catalogs all of these were available in LH. There are some examples currently on Ebay.

  • rex235rex235 ClubWRX Posts: 3,987 ClubWRX

    Shallow-
    My apologies.
    Yes, the Wilson "Staff Tour Blade" irons with the "Fluid Feel" drill thru hosels preceded the Staff "Fluid Feel" model irons Layman is showing. Yet, the year the Wilson Staff "Fluid Feel" iron models stamped with the "W/S" shield were RH Only. Golf ID and Price Guide III confirms this. Wilson/Walter Hagen did not make any LH Persimmon woods since the introduction of the StrataBloc laminating process in 1948. Wilson/Walter Hagen offered the "Staff Tour Block" and Haig Ultra persimmon woods to go with these irons in the '80s. No LH models. These were likely done under contract by Louisville Golf, and they most assuredly were RH Only. Have seen sets of LH Wilson Staff Gooseneck iron models with the "W/S" shield, but not the "Staff", "Fluid Feel" models. If there are LH sets of Staff Fluid Feel irons with the "W/S" shield, they're likely custom models.
    The Staff '69 Bulletback, and Staff '71 Buttonback remake irons were RH Only, as was the '58 Staff Dyna-powered SW remake.

  • ShallowfaceShallowface Members Posts: 1,452 ✭✭

    @rex235 said:
    Shallow-
    My apologies.
    Yes, the Wilson "Staff Tour Blade" irons with the "Fluid Feel" drill thru hosels preceded the Staff "Fluid Feel" model irons Layman is showing. Yet, the year the Wilson Staff "Fluid Feel" iron models stamped with the "W/S" shield were RH Only. Golf ID and Price Guide III confirms this. Wilson/Walter Hagen did not make any LH Persimmon woods since the introduction of the StrataBloc laminating process in 1948. Wilson/Walter Hagen offered the "Staff Tour Block" and Haig Ultra persimmon woods to go with these irons in the '80s. No LH models. These were likely done under contract by Louisville Golf, and they most assuredly were RH Only. Have seen sets of LH Wilson Staff Gooseneck iron models with the "W/S" shield, but not the "Staff", "Fluid Feel" models. If there are LH sets of Staff Fluid Feel irons with the "W/S" shield, they're likely custom models.
    The Staff '69 Bulletback, and Staff '71 Buttonback remake irons were RH Only, as was the '58 Staff Dyna-powered SW remake.

    The Price Guide shows the Staff irons with the W/S Shield as being available in LH in 1989, RH only in 1990, which matches what is shown in my catalogs for those years.

  • rex235rex235 ClubWRX Posts: 3,987 ClubWRX

    The Kaplan compilation of the Wilson catalog I have shows the following-
    1988, also 1989, 1990. The Gold "W/S" shield?
    Staff Goosenecks with Gold W/S shield? - Yes. Staff "Fluid Feel" with gold W/S shield?- RH Only.
    The Wilson Walter Hagen Crenshaw Grind irons? RH Only.
    Both Wilson Staff Tour Block Persimmon and Walter Hagen Haig Ultra Persimmon- RH Only.

  • ShallowfaceShallowface Members Posts: 1,452 ✭✭

    @rex235 said:
    The Kaplan compilation of the Wilson catalog I have shows the following-
    1988, also 1989, 1990. The Gold "W/S" shield?
    Staff Goosenecks with Gold W/S shield? - Yes. Staff "Fluid Feel" with gold W/S shield?- RH Only.
    The Wilson Walter Hagen Crenshaw Grind irons? RH Only.
    Both Wilson Staff Tour Block Persimmon and Walter Hagen Haig Ultra Persimmon- RH Only.

    From the 1989 catalog. The Kaplan book doesn't have these pages.

  • ShallowfaceShallowface Members Posts: 1,452 ✭✭
    edited Apr 25, 2019 11:53am #20

    It had been a while since I looked at the second version of the Wilson Kaplan book. It is terribly incomplete for the late 1980s time period.
    From the 1988 catalog.

  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Allez Allez Allez Minnesota, USAMembers Posts: 6,275 ✭✭

    A small side note...

    Looking at the prices of the 1988 catalog, wondered how much that would be in 2019 money. Ran the numbers through the Inflation Calculator. $570 in 1988 is about $1,250 in 2019 dollars.

    The driver price makes today's cost a bit ugly. $94 in 1988 translates to $205 today. Ugh.

    The Ever Changing Bag!

    Driver: Cobra King LTD, ProtoPype 80x or RIP 80x, 43.5" -or- SuperDeep 9.5*, ProtoPype 80x or NV85x, 43.5"
    3w: Cobra King LTD, Motore F1 85 X, 42.5"
    1 iron: Maxfli Revolution, DGS400
    2-PW, Golden Ram Tour Grind, Dynamic S
    SW: Ram Tour Grind Feel Matched 58*, DGS
    Putter: Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34.5", PP58 midsize grip
    (Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35" -or- Mizuno TPM-2, 35" as backups)
    Balls: in no particular order... Wilson Staff FG Tour, Duo Urethane, or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar/ZStar XV, Snell MTB Black... will trot out Maxfli HT-100 or Elite 90 from time to time
    Shoes by True Linkswear
  • rex235rex235 ClubWRX Posts: 3,987 ClubWRX

    Shallow-
    Thanks for the Wilson catalog photo.
    Unfortunately, you will NOT find a LH model of either of those clubs pictured. They would have been in the bags of LH Wilson Staff Tour players, like Bob Charles, Russ Cochran, or Ernie Gonzalez. Does it even say "LH model available by Special Order"?
    Wilson did NOT offer that Staff Fluid Feel iron pictured, with that "W/S" stamp, in a LH model. Also, they most certainly did NOT offer any LH Wilson Staff Tour Block persimmon woods. To find a LH Wilson Persimmon woods, you would have to go back prior to 1948, when Wilson introduced the StrataBloc laminated woods. LH Wilson Persimmon Woods exist, but prior to that time.
    The Wilson/ Walter Hagen Golf didn't offer any LH Persimmon woods, nor LH forged "Walter Hagen" Ultradyne signature blades, or Haig Ultra "Crenshaw Grind" irons. Finally, the 2014 Wilson Staff FG Tour 100 Forged iron, supposed to be Wilson Golfs celebration for 100 years in the game, with "Fluid Feel" and W/S badge, was RH ONLY. You could ask Wilson about this, but unfortunately Wilson closed their Custom Department to the public in 2014. All those specific custom grinds, kept in 3 ring binders, were no longer accessible. The young woman who answered my phone inquiry then, told me "It was a Corporate Decision."

  • ShallowfaceShallowface Members Posts: 1,452 ✭✭
    edited Apr 25, 2019 9:25pm #23

    @rex235 said:
    Shallow-
    Thanks for the Wilson catalog photo.
    Unfortunately, you will NOT find a LH model of either of those clubs pictured. They would have been in the bags of LH Wilson Staff Tour players, like Bob Charles, Russ Cochran, or Ernie Gonzalez. Does it even say "LH model available by Special Order"?
    Wilson did NOT offer that Staff Fluid Feel iron pictured, with that "W/S" stamp, in a LH model. Also, they most certainly did NOT offer any LH Wilson Staff Tour Block persimmon woods. To find a LH Wilson Persimmon woods, you would have to go back prior to 1948, when Wilson introduced the StrataBloc laminated woods. LH Wilson Persimmon Woods exist, but prior to that time.
    The Wilson/ Walter Hagen Golf didn't offer any LH Persimmon woods, nor LH forged "Walter Hagen" Ultradyne signature blades, or Haig Ultra "Crenshaw Grind" irons. Finally, the 2014 Wilson Staff FG Tour 100 Forged iron, supposed to be Wilson Golfs celebration for 100 years in the game, with "Fluid Feel" and W/S badge, was RH ONLY. You could ask Wilson about this, but unfortunately Wilson closed their Custom Department to the public in 2014. All those specific custom grinds, kept in 3 ring binders, were no longer accessible. The young woman who answered my phone inquiry then, told me "It was a Corporate Decision.

    Does it even say "LH model available by Special Order"?
    No, Rex. It has a stock model number assigned to it (R4395). Take another look. It's right there.
    As I wrote yesterday, there are examples of the 86-88 version in LH on Ebay right now, so those most certainly were produced.
    It clearly states that the persimmon woods are RH only. I never questioned that one time.
    I looked in plenty of Wilson Staff bags at tournaments during that time. It was rare to see the current retail model in the bag of any of them. Most of them used something that cosmetically resembled the 1976-77 model, long after that had disappeared from retail. The Staff players you mentioned could have had anything in the bag. During that very time period, there were a lot of Wilson Staff bags on the Senior Tour and many of them didn't have a single Wilson club in them.
    I don't know what the Hagen Crenshaw models or the FG 100 have to do with this discussion. No one is questioning those were RH only (there were LH Hagen models prior to those, "The Haig" forged irons of the late 70s and early 80s for example). It's clearly stated in the catalogs.
    Which are the final authority for me absent of any proof otherwise.

    Post edited by Shallowface on
  • rex235rex235 ClubWRX Posts: 3,987 ClubWRX

    Shallow-
    We checked. EBay shows only RH "Staff" "Fluid Feel" models with the "W/S" stamp.
    Wilson did NOT offer a LH model of the Staff Fluid Feel "W/S" iron in your picture. Briefly, It was a different supplier to Wilson that year. There were discussions with Wilson's Larry Joseflowicz and John McGeough over 25 years ago. Both of them are retired, and may no longer be in this world. Yes, the Wilson custom grinds you speak of were whatever each Tour player wanted. Freddie's Bernhard Langer Staff TourBlade Custom "BL" irons are proof.
    A few years ago in an email response, Larry Bobka gave me the name of the person most likely responsible for grinding Sir Bob Charles LH Staff irons when he was with Wilson. Bobka also confirmed the existence of the Wilson Staff custom grinds listed in 3 ring binders.
    You're the one with the photo of the RH Wilson Staff Fluid Feel iron, and a RH Wilson Staff "Tour Block" Persimmon wood. To me, it confirms both of these Wilson models were RH Only. What you got if you ordered the Staff "Fluid Feel" irons ( Stock # R4395) were iron sets WITHOUT the "W/S" stamp. As for photos of LH Wilson Staff irons...

    These were all original Wilson Staff Dynapower Fluid Feel iron sets, as Wilson did NOT make LH remakes of the '69 and '71 models.
    The only reason Walter Hagen was in this conversation is because Hagen sold his company to the Wilson Golf umbrella in 1944. An early set of LH Walter Hagen Haig Ultra forged irons has been posted by me. Those early forged Walter Hagen "Ultradyne" iron models-the ones which came out in the '70s, the ones with the black or red "W/H" button- these were RH Only.

    In 2014, Wilson "celebrated" their FG Tour 100 Forged iron model. 100 years in Golf. These FG Tour 100 irons also have the "Fluid Feel" stamp, and the "W/S" button, but who at Wilson made this RH Only decision?
    While I am extremely grateful you posted your photo of Wilson irons and persimmon woods from 30 years ago, I am certain you won't find a LH model of Wilson "Staff" "Fluid Feel" irons like those RH ones, with the "W/S" stamp included. The LH Wilson Staff "Gooseneck" model irons are the only ones I've ever seen with the "W/S" stamp, NOT the Staff "Fluid Feel" irons.
    Again, what Wilson said in their catalog was not what they did.

  • ShallowfaceShallowface Members Posts: 1,452 ✭✭

    This discussion started with your assertion that the 86-88 model was RH only. Those were the examples I saw on Ebay.
    I can certainly believe that if a left hander ordered a set of Staff irons in 1989 they didn't have the stamp, even though the catalog doesn't make this distinction. Wilson was notorious for overproducing its irons, and since there was likely nearly no demand for these in LH they sent a set of leftovers from 1988. New sets of the FG17 were available for at least a couple of years after being discontinued.
    Again, I never said a persimmon wood was offered. I never said the remakes were offered. Not once.
    I know about the history of the Hagen/Wilson connection. I would consider it "common knowledge" to use one of your favorites.
    I had no idea that the catalogs were so inaccurate. I suppose it's a waste of time to post them. So many people seemed to enjoy them, but I don't want to be posting potentially false information.

  • rex235rex235 ClubWRX Posts: 3,987 ClubWRX

    Shallow-
    "I can certainly believe that if a left hander ordered a set of Staff irons in 1989 they didn't have the stamp, even though the catalog doesn't make this distinction."
    Believe it, and no it's not a waste of time to post your photo.
    The catalog had the photo, but if you wanted the LH model, it wasn't what you were getting.
    Wilson could have written the difference was "cosmetic", but why? There's the photo, but where's the "W/S" stamp? It might be one of the reasons Gary Van Sickle wrote that Sir Bob Charles considered most LH golf clubs were "inferior" to their RH brethren. Nowadays, with Computer Design, Milling and Manufacturing, it's not quite the case.
    Though it is 2019, there will just be some iron models that are "RH Only". Yes, the "TW" $2,000 set from TM.
    Admittedly, you might find a LH '88 Wilson Staff "Fluid Feel" set with "W/S" someday, somewhere around the world.
    But you're just as likely to find a set of 2014 Wilson LH Tour 100 FG Forged irons.

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