Thoughts on this new Golf Digest article on pin in vs out

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are about this new study?

Personally i would like to see more studies by more qualified individuals. Id like to see more speeds than just 4.5 feet past the hole. At what point does it even matter? It seems like as long as your pace is 4 feet or less past the stick, itll go in either way. Someone should use perfect putter on a SAM lab or something. Try to control as many variables as possible and test different angles of deflection at differing rates of speed. Any PhD candidates in physics or engineering looking for a thesis? haha.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-science-behind-why-the-flagstick-should-be-pulled-999-percent-of-the-time?utm_brand=gd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&mbid=social_facebook&utm_social-type=owned&fbclid=IwAR3uLxv2A0-b18qcAuofJMa4euL5ktuEyI1n6kRRufQmd9kJSIdLJ30G938

And Golf Spy has responded with a [really cringey video.](


Nice. I see EM golf academy commented on that video in Dr Mase's favor so it looks like we have a little war going on here. GD/Mase and EM vs Bryson and Not allowed because of spam. Seems like those with engineering background find pin out more successful and those who are physics driven find pin in. Just an observation so far

edit: apparantly golf spy is code for a banned rival word by wrx lol

> @CaddiesFault said:

> Nice. I see EM golf academy commented on that video in Dr Mase's favor so it looks like we have a little war going on here. GD/Mase and EM vs Bryson and ****. Seems like those with engineering background find pin out more successful and those who are physics driven find pin in. Just an observation so far

>

> edit: apparantly golf spy is code for a banned rival word by wrx lol

I stopped taking Bryson serious in regards to science when he explained in an interview that a shot he hit “had too much terminal velocity” which is why it did not go in.

Even someone who had Physics 101 in college could spot why that comment is the physics equivalent to Steve Carrell’s “bag of sand” comment about women from his “40 Year Old Virgin” movie.

Virtually everyone I know is playing pin in all the time. Now it seems funny to take it out.

> @Fairways_and_Greens said:

> And Golf Spy has responded with a [really cringey video.](

>

> 

>

I have really gone off MGS in recent years, they are awful. They tout themselves to be all about the player but it's such poppycock.

Cringe is a good word!

> @ironcat said:

> > @Fairways_and_Greens said:

> > And Golf Spy has responded with a [really cringey video.](

> >

> > 

> >

>

> I have really gone off Not allowed because of spam in recent years, they are awful. They tout themselves to be all about the player but it's such poppycock. This guy sounds so angry someone disagreed with him. Baffling.

>

> Cringe is a good word!

I play a lot of solo rounds, and when they announced last year they were changing the rules to allow you to leave the flag in I started leaving it in all the time when I putt. Just based on my own observations in doing that, I feel like leaving the pin in has caused me to miss many putts that would have gone in had I taken it out, and rarely if ever has it caused a putt to go in that wouldn't have had I taken it out. I can't be sure, of course, but that's what I believe based on what I've seen. So when that study came out that said you should leave it in all the time, I was a little dubious, and still am. I think the Golf Digest article is more on point. It has to be. I just don't see leaving the pin in helping unless you hit a putt with way too much speed right in the dead center of the hole.

Based on all the studies I have seen including this latest one fron GD it seems like the pin should be out if you have decent speed control (especially with the sturdier metal pins). If you regularly blow putts past the pin by 6' or more or play courses that predominantly use the wimpy fiberglass pins then pin in doesn't hurt and may provide a small advantage.

> @"Gamble Gamble" said:

> > @CaddiesFault said:

> > Nice. I see EM golf academy commented on that video in Dr Mase's favor so it looks like we have a little war going on here. GD/Mase and EM vs Bryson and ****. Seems like those with engineering background find pin out more successful and those who are physics driven find pin in. Just an observation so far

> >

> > edit: apparantly golf spy is code for a banned rival word by wrx lol

>

> I stopped taking Bryson serious in regards to science when he explained in an interview that a shot he hit “had too much terminal velocity” which is why it did not go in.

>

> Even someone who had Physics 101 in college could spot why that comment is the physics equivalent to Steve Carrell’s “bag of sand” comment about women from his “40 Year Old Virgin” movie.

>

>

>

>

+1,000 - I had stopped taking him seriously already due to his COR explanation with the flagstick, and his air density comments, and then the terminal velocity comment just proved to me that it is all an “act”...he does it because reporters eat it up (they don’t know any better), and it is “brand building “ for him.

I've never believed the "science" behind leaving the pin in and will continue to leave the pin out for the rest of my life. For me, it is a visual distraction, and I've experienced far more times where the ball has deflected off the pin on a putt that would have obviously gone in without the pin.

> @rkodavey said:

> I play a lot of solo rounds, and when they announced last year they were changing the rules to allow you to leave the flag in I started leaving it in all the time when I putt. Just based on my own observations in doing that, I feel like leaving the pin in has caused me to miss many putts that would have gone in had I taken it out, and rarely if ever has it caused a putt to go in that wouldn't have had I taken it out. I can't be sure, of course, but that's what I believe based on what I've seen. So when that study came out that said you should leave it in all the time, I was a little dubious, and still am. I think the Golf Digest article is more on point. It has to be. I just don't see leaving the pin in helping unless you hit a putt with way too much speed right in the dead center of the hole.

This Spring, I've witnessed a few "deflections" off the pin on putts that had reasonable pace and would certainly have dropped without the pin. I was surprised by this.

In solo rounds, I'll probably continue to leave it in. In competition (leisurely$ and otherwise), I'll probably take it out.

Exceptions:

- Downhill, runaway putts.

- On long lags, I'll have someone tend it for scale.

> @LeftDaddy said:

> > @"Gamble Gamble" said:

> > > @CaddiesFault said:

> > > Nice. I see EM golf academy commented on that video in Dr Mase's favor so it looks like we have a little war going on here. GD/Mase and EM vs Bryson and ****. Seems like those with engineering background find pin out more successful and those who are physics driven find pin in. Just an observation so far

> > >

> > > edit: apparantly golf spy is code for a banned rival word by wrx lol

> >

> > I stopped taking Bryson serious in regards to science when he explained in an interview that a shot he hit “had too much terminal velocity” which is why it did not go in.

> >

> > Even someone who had Physics 101 in college could spot why that comment is the physics equivalent to Steve Carrell’s “bag of sand” comment about women from his “40 Year Old Virgin” movie.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> +1,000 - I had stopped taking him seriously already due to his COR explanation with the flagstick, and his air density comments, and then the terminal velocity comment just proved to me that it is all an “act”...he does it because reporters eat it up (they don’t know any better), and it is “brand building “ for him.

>

He's one of the world's most skilled trolls. He does it because he enjoys it.

not sure I would like putting shorter putts with the flag in, something about it just makes the hole feel smaller.

Very interesting read!

I haven't read all the above replies.

Just based on the courses I play.

The flags are left in all the time. 24 hours a day.

The hole in the bottom of the cup is so worn, that the wind will blow the flags out, and they lay on the green after a storm.

The flagstick is NOT in the center of the hole.

If you putt and leave it in, the gap may be larger or smaller than the diameter of the ball.

In a light breeze, the flag bounces around.

It is my experience that leaving the flag in is the same as having a 'goalie' guarding the hole.

A pro missed qualifying locally for the Monday Qauly to get in to the RBC Heritage last week because he left the stick in from 2 feet away on the last hole and it deflected and lipped out. Ill try to find the tweet again and post it.

> @CaddiesFault said:

> A pro missed qualifying locally for the Monday Qauly to get in to the RBC Heritage last week because he left the stick in from 2 feet away on the last hole and it deflected and lipped out. Ill try to find the tweet again and post it.

Lol, sorry he deserves that for leaving the flag in on 2 footer