An unmarked Sod Farm under the new rules?

 Shipwreck ·  
ShipwreckShipwreck  3999WRX Points: 309Handicap: 6.2Members Posts: 3,999 Titanium Tees
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Our local Muni has a sod farm just through and to the left of the fairway. The hole is a slight dog leg right (ever so slightly) and the sod area itself is somewhat protected by trees, so it is still getable if you hit it far and straight at it. Under the new rules of not being able to play from any green, even though this area is not marked as GUR or However it should be marked, is a player still able to play from this area or do they need to take relief regardless? I included a terrible picture of the area (circled red, you can kind of see the sod area) for reference.

Posted:

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  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean  4766WRX Points: 451Handicap: 3,8Members Posts: 4,766 Titanium Tees
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    IMO, if it is not marked in any way and no LR suggests otherwise it is part of General Area. So you need to play from there or invoke unplayable ball.

    Posted:
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  • davep043davep043  4700WRX Points: 1,939Handicap: 6.3Members Posts: 4,700 Titanium Tees
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    I agree with

    On -, @Mr. Bean , if its not marked, its part of the General Area. Its definitely not a putting green.
    Posted:

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  • ShipwreckShipwreck  3999WRX Points: 309Handicap: 6.2Members Posts: 3,999 Titanium Tees
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    Alright good to know. I need to ask the course about it though because it should be marked or at least mentioned on the scorecard as being an unplayable area esp since they cut that grass daily just like the greens.

    Posted:

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  • SawgrassSawgrass  15761WRX Points: 1,072Members Posts: 15,761 Titanium Tees
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    You'd think they'd want to protect the area, a white line or string around it with a GUR/no play zone notice would easily do the trick.

    Posted:
  • xenocide1xenocide1  22WRX Points: 18Members Posts: 22 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Apr 19, 2019 #6

    There's no way they want you playing from there, marked or not. If you're playing in an organized tournament, then you don't have much choice and need to go by the marking, there or not.

    All other rounds do not play from there. I know you want to play by all rules all the time but do the grounds crew a favor and move your ball off that sod farm. Should it be marked? Yes, unfortunately that doesn't always happen.

    Posted:
  • Liquid_A_45Liquid_A_45 Broken Arrow, OK 801WRX Points: 152Handicap: 12.3Members Posts: 801 Golden Tee
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    On -, @xenocide1 said:

    There's no way they want you playing from there, marked or not. If you're playing in an organized tournament, then you don't have much choice and need to go by the marking, there or not.

    All other rounds do not play from there. I know you want to play by all rules all the time but do the grounds crew a favor and move your ball off that sod farm. Should it be marked? Yes, unfortunately that doesn't always happen.

    Exactly. Common sense needs to come into play.

    Posted:
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  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Iowa 20378WRX Points: 4,312ClubWRX Posts: 20,378 ClubWRX
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    Never mind, thought somebody played my course.

    Posted:
  • HitEmTrueHitEmTrue North Texas 6790WRX Points: 581Members Posts: 6,790 Titanium Tees
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    Did the new rules change something about playing from a green?

    Posted:
  • NewbyNewby  7629WRX Points: 595Members Posts: 7,629 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @HitEmTrue said:

    Did the new rules change something about playing from a green?

    This area is not a green (if you mean Putting Green). It has to be specially prepared for putting not just as a nursery for turf to be used for a putting green.

    However, the rule relating to a Wrong Putting Green did change. Interference by a wrong putting green (where a
    player is required to take relief) now includes interference with the area of intended stance or swing, as well as the lie of the ball.

    Posted:
  • HitEmTrueHitEmTrue North Texas 6790WRX Points: 581Members Posts: 6,790 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Apr 19, 2019 #11

    Thanks

    On -, @Newby

    I wasn’t talking about this non-green, but his comment about the rules change.

    Posted:
  • 596596 Lakeland, FL 3753WRX Points: 262Members Posts: 3,753 Titanium Tees
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    If you were playing a tournament that area would be marked as a free drop. No sup. wants you hitting balls from the sod farm. People need to play the game with some common sense during every day rounds.

    As a greenskeeper, I would be raising **** if I saw you hitting off the sod farm I use to repair the regular greens. Use common sense!

    Posted:
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  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean  4766WRX Points: 451Handicap: 3,8Members Posts: 4,766 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @596 said:

    If you were playing a tournament that area would be marked as a free drop. No sup. wants you hitting balls from the sod farm. People need to play the game with some common sense during every day rounds.

    As a greenskeeper, I would be raising **** if I saw you hitting off the sod farm I use to repair the regular greens. Use common sense!

    IMO that common sense needs to be used by the course management, not the players! Marking the course properly is important in order to give players a fair chance to play their rounds according to the Rules. As a greenkeeper you should know better, I believe.

    Posted:
  • AugsterAugster  4589WRX Points: 526Members Posts: 4,589 Titanium Tees
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    I don’t use common sense when I play. I just play by the rules and play the course as I find it.

    I’m certainly not taking an unplayable lie there if I have a shot, so I’d definitely play from the sod farm.

    I do agree, however, it should be marked as GUR/No play zone. Put a string around it and attach a laminated sign, or use packaging tape and paper, and label it GUR/No play. Should take about 10 minutes to do.

    If the groundscrew won’t spend that little bit of time to protect their sod farm, they deserve to have players play from it.

    Posted:
  • antipantip  1042WRX Points: 333Members Posts: 1,042 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @Mr. Bean said:

    On -, @596 said:

    If you were playing a tournament that area would be marked as a free drop. No sup. wants you hitting balls from the sod farm. People need to play the game with some common sense during every day rounds.

    As a greenskeeper, I would be raising **** if I saw you hitting off the sod farm I use to repair the regular greens. Use common sense!

    IMO that common sense needs to be used by the course management, not the players! Marking the course properly is important in order to give players a fair chance to play their rounds according to the Rules. As a greenkeeper you should know better, I believe.

    EVERYONE needs to use common sense. The biggest foul-up here is failure of Committee/Pro Shop/Greenkeeper to ensure there is appropriate marking/local rule - and if this is a permanent but unmarked/unlabelled "nursery/sod farm" that is truly an appalling state of affairs with multiple guilty parties (main one being the Committee - see Committee Procedures sections 1&2). But a player should also be using common sense, which I suggest means if it is casual play dropping off this turf and if it is competition play immediately ringing Pro Shop/Club/Referee to get immediate guidance. If no advice can be obtained, play as lies and draw it to attention of Pro/Club/Referee as soon as practicable.

    Posted:
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolina 30113WRX Points: 6,479Handicap: NONEMembers Posts: 30,113 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @596 said:

    If you were playing a tournament that area would be marked as a free drop. No sup. wants you hitting balls from the sod farm. People need to play the game with some common sense during every day rounds.

    As a greenskeeper, I would be raising **** if I saw you hitting off the sod farm I use to repair the regular greens. Use common sense!

    Yes. I too wouldn’t hit off it. But. Before you jumped me if I did. You may consider who’s responsible for marking it to begin with. Having worked on a grounds crew for 5 plus years in my youth. I know that it’s the supers job ( or it falls on the super) a lot of the time to keep the course marked during normal play. Only usually see the pro or a committee member pay attention to it during tournament weeks.

    Posted:
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  • SawgrassSawgrass  15761WRX Points: 1,072Members Posts: 15,761 Titanium Tees
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    A course which directs you to "play by USGA rules" should put as much effort into marking it as into growing grass. At least you can play of bare ground, even putt on bad greens.

    And grass's purpose in life is to be struck with a golf club. No so sacred.

    Posted:
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  • LeoLeo99LeoLeo99  4639WRX Points: 548Members Posts: 4,639 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @bladehunter said:

    On -, @596 said:

    If you were playing a tournament that area would be marked as a free drop. No sup. wants you hitting balls from the sod farm. People need to play the game with some common sense during every day rounds.

    As a greenskeeper, I would be raising **** if I saw you hitting off the sod farm I use to repair the regular greens. Use common sense!

    Yes. I too wouldn’t hit off it. But. Before you jumped me if I did. You may consider who’s responsible for marking it to begin with. Having worked on a grounds crew for 5 plus years in my youth. I know that it’s the supers job ( or it falls on the super) a lot of the time to keep the course marked during normal play. Only usually see the pro or a committee member pay attention to it during tournament weeks.

    I only know a tournament is imminent or happened recently is if there is GUR marked on the course.

    Posted:
    Post edited by LeoLeo99 on
  • SNIPERBBBSNIPERBBB Hit Ball Hard SE Ohio 3111WRX Points: 758Handicap: 2.9Members Posts: 3,111 Titanium Tees
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    Sad but true on many non-profit private club or tourist courses.

    Posted:
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  • LeoLeo99LeoLeo99  4639WRX Points: 548Members Posts: 4,639 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Apr 20, 2019 #20

    On -, @antip said:

    On -, @Mr. Bean said:

    On -, @596 said:

    If you were playing a tournament that area would be marked as a free drop. No sup. wants you hitting balls from the sod farm. People need to play the game with some common sense during every day rounds.

    As a greenskeeper, I would be raising **** if I saw you hitting off the sod farm I use to repair the regular greens. Use common sense!

    IMO that common sense needs to be used by the course management, not the players! Marking the course properly is important in order to give players a fair chance to play their rounds according to the Rules. As a greenkeeper you should know better, I believe.

    EVERYONE needs to use common sense. The biggest foul-up here is failure of Committee/Pro Shop/Greenkeeper to ensure there is appropriate marking/local rule - and if this is a permanent but unmarked/unlabelled "nursery/sod farm" that is truly an appalling state of affairs with multiple guilty parties (main one being the Committee - see Committee Procedures sections 1&2). But a player should also be using common sense, which I suggest means if it is casual play dropping off this turf and if it is competition play immediately ringing Pro Shop/Club/Referee to get immediate guidance. If no advice can be obtained, play as lies and draw it to attention of Pro/Club/Referee as soon as practicable.

    My old course had a sod farm adjacent to the 16th hole. I think they'd have you arrested if they saw you playing from it. It was understood that it was GUR even though it wasn't formally marked as such. It's too large an area to paint.

    Posted:
  • SawgrassSawgrass  15761WRX Points: 1,072Members Posts: 15,761 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @LeoLeo99 said:

    On -, @antip said:

    On -, @Mr. Bean said:

    On -, @596 said:

    If you were playing a tournament that area would be marked as a free drop. No sup. wants you hitting balls from the sod farm. People need to play the game with some common sense during every day rounds.

    As a greenskeeper, I would be raising **** if I saw you hitting off the sod farm I use to repair the regular greens. Use common sense!

    IMO that common sense needs to be used by the course management, not the players! Marking the course properly is important in order to give players a fair chance to play their rounds according to the Rules. As a greenkeeper you should know better, I believe.

    EVERYONE needs to use common sense. The biggest foul-up here is failure of Committee/Pro Shop/Greenkeeper to ensure there is appropriate marking/local rule - and if this is a permanent but unmarked/unlabelled "nursery/sod farm" that is truly an appalling state of affairs with multiple guilty parties (main one being the Committee - see Committee Procedures sections 1&2). But a player should also be using common sense, which I suggest means if it is casual play dropping off this turf and if it is competition play immediately ringing Pro Shop/Club/Referee to get immediate guidance. If no advice can be obtained, play as lies and draw it to attention of Pro/Club/Referee as soon as practicable.

    My old course had a sod farm adjacent to the 16th hole. I think they'd have you arrested if they saw you playing from it. It was understood that it was GUR even though it wasn't formally marked as such. It's too large an area to paint.

    Marking GUR is useful, but technically unnecessary. As long as the Committee identifies it as such, it’s GUR.

    Posted:
  • ShipwreckShipwreck  3999WRX Points: 309Handicap: 6.2Members Posts: 3,999 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    Marking GUR is useful, but technically unnecessary. As long as the Committee identifies it as such, it’s GUR.

    It should be something as simple as dictating it on the scorecard yes? It’s not as if this sod farm is new either. It’s been a sod farm for as long as I’ve been playing this course and I believe, although it isn’t huge in size, it’s used for both of the 18 hole courses that are in the complex.

    Posted:

    Bag as of 14MAY2019
    Driver - Cobra F9 Speedback w/ Evenflow White 76x
    3w - Cobra F8 w/ HZRDS RED 6.5
    Hybrid - Cobra F7 w/ Fuji VTS Silver Stiff
    Irons - Titleist 718 AP2 w/ AMT S300 Tour White 4-9
    Wedges Titleist SM7 w/ AMT S300 Tour White 46/50/54/60
    Putter - Odyssey O-Works #7

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  • James the Hogan FanJames the Hogan Fan  1007WRX Points: 662Handicap: 12Members Posts: 1,007 Platinum Tees
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    If it is maintained at putting green height, does that not make it a wrong putting green?

    Posted:
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  • LeoLeo99LeoLeo99  4639WRX Points: 548Members Posts: 4,639 Titanium Tees
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    If it is maintained at putting green height, does that not make it a wrong putting green?

    No. It's just short grass.

    Posted:
  • LeoLeo99LeoLeo99  4639WRX Points: 548Members Posts: 4,639 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    On -, @LeoLeo99 said:

    On -, @antip said:

    On -, @Mr. Bean said:

    On -, @596 said:

    If you were playing a tournament that area would be marked as a free drop. No sup. wants you hitting balls from the sod farm. People need to play the game with some common sense during every day rounds.

    As a greenskeeper, I would be raising **** if I saw you hitting off the sod farm I use to repair the regular greens. Use common sense!

    IMO that common sense needs to be used by the course management, not the players! Marking the course properly is important in order to give players a fair chance to play their rounds according to the Rules. As a greenkeeper you should know better, I believe.

    EVERYONE needs to use common sense. The biggest foul-up here is failure of Committee/Pro Shop/Greenkeeper to ensure there is appropriate marking/local rule - and if this is a permanent but unmarked/unlabelled "nursery/sod farm" that is truly an appalling state of affairs with multiple guilty parties (main one being the Committee - see Committee Procedures sections 1&2). But a player should also be using common sense, which I suggest means if it is casual play dropping off this turf and if it is competition play immediately ringing Pro Shop/Club/Referee to get immediate guidance. If no advice can be obtained, play as lies and draw it to attention of Pro/Club/Referee as soon as practicable.

    My old course had a sod farm adjacent to the 16th hole. I think they'd have you arrested if they saw you playing from it. It was understood that it was GUR even though it wasn't formally marked as such. It's too large an area to paint.

    Marking GUR is useful, but technically unnecessary. As long as the Committee identifies it as such, it’s GUR.

    The committee assumes anyone with half a brain knows not to play from it.

    Posted:
  • SawgrassSawgrass  15761WRX Points: 1,072Members Posts: 15,761 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Shipwreck said:

    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    Marking GUR is useful, but technically unnecessary. As long as the Committee identifies it as such, it’s GUR.

    It should be something as simple as dictating it on the scorecard yes? It’s not as if this sod farm is new either. It’s been a sod farm for as long as I’ve been playing this course and I believe, although it isn’t huge in size, it’s used for both of the 18 hole courses that are in the complex.

    Sure, the scorecard would do. Or putting a note on the starter's office, or even a single stake at the entrance to the farm with sharpie writing saying, "Sod Farm is GUR/No Play" would suffice (if it's obvious where the area's limits are). Given its permanence, why not allow customers free relief in this simple way? I don't really see why staking it out would be a problem either, perhaps with rope between the stakes. Everyone wins, free relief + customers taking care of the new grass.

    But for your personal peace of mind, all you have to do is ask someone who speaks for the Course Committee how they want this area dealt with, and if they say "GUR/No Play" at least you'll be able to safely take free relief for all of your casual rounds -- then ask the Competition Committee if you're in a formal comp.

    Posted:
  • NewbyNewby  7629WRX Points: 595Members Posts: 7,629 Titanium Tees
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    If it is maintained at putting green height, does that not make it a wrong putting green?

    See Definition of Putting Green

    Posted:
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  • SawgrassSawgrass  15761WRX Points: 1,072Members Posts: 15,761 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Newby said:


    If it is maintained at putting green height, does that not make it a wrong putting green?

    See Definition of Putting Green

    See definition of wrong green!

    Posted:
  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean  4766WRX Points: 451Handicap: 3,8Members Posts: 4,766 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @LeoLeo99 said:

    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    On -, @LeoLeo99 said:

    On -, @antip said:

    On -, @Mr. Bean said:

    On -, @596 said:

    If you were playing a tournament that area would be marked as a free drop. No sup. wants you hitting balls from the sod farm. People need to play the game with some common sense during every day rounds.

    As a greenskeeper, I would be raising **** if I saw you hitting off the sod farm I use to repair the regular greens. Use common sense!

    IMO that common sense needs to be used by the course management, not the players! Marking the course properly is important in order to give players a fair chance to play their rounds according to the Rules. As a greenkeeper you should know better, I believe.

    EVERYONE needs to use common sense. The biggest foul-up here is failure of Committee/Pro Shop/Greenkeeper to ensure there is appropriate marking/local rule - and if this is a permanent but unmarked/unlabelled "nursery/sod farm" that is truly an appalling state of affairs with multiple guilty parties (main one being the Committee - see Committee Procedures sections 1&2). But a player should also be using common sense, which I suggest means if it is casual play dropping off this turf and if it is competition play immediately ringing Pro Shop/Club/Referee to get immediate guidance. If no advice can be obtained, play as lies and draw it to attention of Pro/Club/Referee as soon as practicable.

    My old course had a sod farm adjacent to the 16th hole. I think they'd have you arrested if they saw you playing from it. It was understood that it was GUR even though it wasn't formally marked as such. It's too large an area to paint.

    Marking GUR is useful, but technically unnecessary. As long as the Committee identifies it as such, it’s GUR.

    The committee assumes anyone with half a brain knows not to play from it.

    My home course used to have two separate areas where turf for greens were grown. Lately one of them was discarded. No information whatsoever was shared but the stakes defining the one were removed.

    Now, Leo, if neither of those areas had been marked, what kind of brain needs a person have to know if it is allowed to play from either of those? Think carefully before you answer.

    Posted:
  • antipantip  1042WRX Points: 333Members Posts: 1,042 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    On -, @Newby said:


    If it is maintained at putting green height, does that not make it a wrong putting green?

    See Definition of Putting Green

    See definition of wrong green!

    If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....
    Agree, the wrong green definition is the place to go. And it starts with the words "Any green..".

    Posted:
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  • NewbyNewby  7629WRX Points: 595Members Posts: 7,629 Titanium Tees
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    But this area hasn't got a hole in it so isn't prepared for nor intended to be used for putting.

    Posted:
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