Jack vs Tiger Major Win %

A.PrinceyA.Princey Major HackerMembers Posts: 2,150 ✭✭

Somebody more knowledgeable than myself maybe has the stats readily available, but anybody know the winning percentages for each up to their last major win?

Heck, even look at it terms of Tiger's 15th and Jack's 17th if you want, just curious how many more majors Jack played to get to 17/18.

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Comments

  • NaptimeNaptime Members Posts: 607 ✭✭

    Jack tuned pro end of 1962 and turned 50 in 1990. So 28 years on the regular tour. Figure 4 majors/year xc 1962. 27 x 4 = 108. Plus whatever regular majors he played in after turning 50. Puts him in the 16% ballpark. So Tiger is roughly 20 years of majors played as a pro, since he skipped a handful. Ballpark 80 so far, around 17%. Someone with more time can do precise numbers.

  • grm24grm24 Western PAMembers Posts: 3,088 ✭✭

    @Naptime said:
    Jack tuned pro end of 1962 and turned 50 in 1990. So 28 years on the regular tour. Figure 4 majors/year xc 1962. 27 x 4 = 108. Plus whatever regular majors he played in after turning 50. Puts him in the 16% ballpark. So Tiger is roughly 20 years of majors played as a pro, since he skipped a handful. Ballpark 80 so far, around 17%. Someone with more time can do precise numbers.

    Jack turned professional at the end of 1961. He won the US Open in 1962.

  • CircleC29CircleC29 Members Posts: 831 ✭✭
    edited Apr 19, 2019 3:22pm #5

    Jack played 76 majors to reach 17. 22.3%
    97 majors played for 18. 18.5%

    Tiger played 46 majors to reach 14. 30.4%
    75 majors to reach 15. 20%

    I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

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  • 3jacker3jacker Members Posts: 1,004 ✭✭

    TW is even or just a hair back. Which seem correct and passes the smell test.

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  • tideridertiderider Members Posts: 1,629 ✭✭

    tiger was generally a step ahead till the back issues ... numbers above seem accurate, so he's a step behind ...

    always neat to look at jack's majors ... the Open was his least successful major, but from '62-'82, he won 3, finished in the top 5 another 15 times ... 17 out of an 18 yr run, he was top 6 or better ... didn't finish below 5th in the entire 70s ...

  • GolfnutgalenGolfnutgalen Members Posts: 2,534 ✭✭
    edited Apr 19, 2019 4:02pm #8

    Other posters have answered the question well enough already, but I will just add some more stats because that's what I normally do!

    Jack won his 14th major in his 56th major start as a pro (25%) while Tiger won in his 46th start (30.4%).
    Then Tiger had his loooong major drought and finally won his 15th in his 75th start (20%) while Jack won his 15th in his 67th start (22.3%). Those percentages sound similar, but Jack has an insurmountable lead for 16 and 17 because he won them in his 74th and 76th starts. That said, Tiger needs to win 3 majors in the next 22 to keep up with Jack's pace when he won his 18th.

  • FIRs&GIRs&3-PuttsFIRs&GIRs&3-Putts Members Posts: 483 ✭✭
    edited Apr 19, 2019 4:09pm #9

    These were my calculations. Note that I included majors played as an amateur, withdrawals and missed cuts.

    Maths was never my strength so forgive any rounding errors, please!

  • Kdaniel72Kdaniel72 Members Posts: 46 ✭✭

    I think I heard Jack won 18 majors and finished 2nd in majors 19 times! That is impressive!

  • Anchor44Anchor44 Members Posts: 901 ✭✭

    What shouldn't be overlooked is the fact that the PGA tour was VERY different when Jack played. There was only a handful of superstars and he didn't have to compete with near the depth that Tiger did. And, courses were shorter when Jack played.
    I have great respect for Jack but Tiger is the GOAT.

  • Kdaniel72Kdaniel72 Members Posts: 46 ✭✭
    edited Apr 19, 2019 9:54pm #12

    Tiger played with much better equipment, coaching and technology. The coaching he received was brought to the forefront by Jack! Without Jack there is no Tiger. I think they are in a dead heat as GOAT. However Jack never had self inflicted wounds. With more time to play for Tiger. I think he will overtake the Golden Bear.

  • Ashley SchaefferAshley Schaeffer Members Posts: 2,009 ✭✭

    @Anchor44 said:
    What shouldn't be overlooked is the fact that the PGA tour was VERY different when Jack played. There was only a handful of superstars and he didn't have to compete with near the depth that Tiger did. And, courses were shorter when Jack played.
    I have great respect for Jack but Tiger is the GOAT.

    Very true. And TW looks to have an edge on win % and lack of insensitive comments over Classy Jackie. Very impressive.

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  • NaptimeNaptime Members Posts: 607 ✭✭

    Not sure what equipment and training has to do with it, since we aren't saying 2019 TW is playing against 1970 Jack. Their equipment and beer belly physique (or not) was same as their competition. Like saying Jackie Stewart is worse than Lewis Hamilton because his F1 car had less tech. Jackie isn't racing Lewis head to head.

  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,136 ✭✭

    @Anchor44 said:
    What shouldn't be overlooked is the fact that the PGA tour was VERY different when Jack played. There was only a handful of superstars and he didn't have to compete with near the depth that Tiger did. And, courses were shorter when Jack played.
    I have great respect for Jack but Tiger is the GOAT.

    Lol. Jack played on shorter courses???? game over i guess....

  • LlortamaiseyLlortamaisey Members Posts: 5,895 ✭✭

    If Tiger hadn’t of worked out in military boots and stayed with Butch, there’s no doubt in my mind he would have remained healthy, not missed any majors, and he would have more green jackets than Jack right now.

  • tideridertiderider Members Posts: 1,629 ✭✭

    @lowheel said:

    @Anchor44 said:
    What shouldn't be overlooked is the fact that the PGA tour was VERY different when Jack played. There was only a handful of superstars and he didn't have to compete with near the depth that Tiger did. And, courses were shorter when Jack played.
    I have great respect for Jack but Tiger is the GOAT.

    Lol. Jack played on shorter courses???? game over i guess....

    i wouldn't bother ... too much for the younguns to have to look up ...
    per wiki: (disclaimer: i understand wiki may have an agenda over certain issues, but i am relatively confident golf course lengths, GOAT discussions, etc. are not part of that agenda)
    1966 Masters - 6980/winning score of -17 (Jack)
    1975 Masters - 7020/winning score of -12 (Jack)
    1997 Masters - 6925/winning score of -19 (Tiger)

  • Ashley SchaefferAshley Schaeffer Members Posts: 2,009 ✭✭

    Imagine if Nicklaus would’ve played the short courses TW played. Talking 40 majors, here.

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  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 26,376 ✭✭
    edited Apr 20, 2019 1:29am #19

    @Kdaniel72 said:
    Tiger played with much better equipment, coaching and technology. The coaching he received was brought to the forefront by Jack! Without Jack there is no Tiger. I think they are in a dead heat as GOAT. However Jack never had self inflicted wounds. With more time to play for Tiger. I think he will overtake the Golden Bear.

    Tiger was actually a victim of getting caught in the graphite/titanium driver revolution.

    He grew up and played steel shafts/heads in his driver when he came on tour and instead of upgrading faster as the tech rolled out, he stuck with old tech and left butch and changed his swing. By the time he upgraded, he had changed his swing, but never got the same advantage back.

    Here is butch

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golfdigest.com/story/gd0608_harmontiger/amp

    "One of the reasons I believe Tiger felt he needed to change his swing was to increase his driving distance. When he first turned pro, Tiger drove it past everybody by a healthy margin. Davis Love III and John Daly were close, but no one consistently hit it as far and in as many fairways as did Tiger. When he needed to blast it past an opponent, he had that ability. Then, in about 2001, players started catching up with him. Ernie Els, Phil Mickelson and Vijay Singh all started hitting the ball close to, if not as long as, Tiger, and occasionally those players and others hit it by him. He never admitted it, but I believe that bothered him. He knew he generated more clubhead speed than anyone else out there, and he had gotten even faster since he'd started working out in his mid-20s, so being challenged off the tee was not something that was supposed to happen. When it did, I think he decided he needed to make some changes.

    I believe that Tiger's perceived loss of distance (or the fact that the rest of the tour started catching up to him in the distance category) had more to do with his equipment than his golf swing. He insisted on staying with a 43 3/4-inch steel-shafted driver with a smaller head, while his fellow-competitors were playing 45-inch graphite shafts and jumbo titanium heads.

    It's hard to question Tiger's reluctance to make a dramatic equipment change. He was the best player in the world. Tossing your driver when you're playing great is a tough thing to do. There were plenty of graphite shafts Tiger could have hit, but he took a cautious approach to change. No one can fault him for that decision. But I think overhauling his golf swing was a mistake when putting a new driver in the bag would have done the trick."

    .

    Now, all this was TWs call. But, if TW had grown up with graphite/titanium OR that tech didnt come about right in his prime

    Man, its hard to imagine the even more insane numbers he would have put up.

  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,136 ✭✭

    @bscinstnct said:

    @Kdaniel72 said:
    Tiger played with much better equipment, coaching and technology. The coaching he received was brought to the forefront by Jack! Without Jack there is no Tiger. I think they are in a dead heat as GOAT. However Jack never had self inflicted wounds. With more time to play for Tiger. I think he will overtake the Golden Bear.

    Tiger was actually a victim of getting caught in the graphite/titanium driver revolution.

    He grew up and played steel shafts/heads in his driver when he came on tour and instead of upgrading faster as the tech rolled out, he stuck with old tech and left butch and changed his swing. By the time he upgraded, he had changed his swing, but never got the same advantage back.

    Here is butch

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golfdigest.com/story/gd0608_harmontiger/amp

    "One of the reasons I believe Tiger felt he needed to change his swing was to increase his driving distance. When he first turned pro, Tiger drove it past everybody by a healthy margin. Davis Love III and John Daly were close, but no one consistently hit it as far and in as many fairways as did Tiger. When he needed to blast it past an opponent, he had that ability. Then, in about 2001, players started catching up with him. Ernie Els, Phil Mickelson and Vijay Singh all started hitting the ball close to, if not as long as, Tiger, and occasionally those players and others hit it by him. He never admitted it, but I believe that bothered him. He knew he generated more clubhead speed than anyone else out there, and he had gotten even faster since he'd started working out in his mid-20s, so being challenged off the tee was not something that was supposed to happen. When it did, I think he decided he needed to make some changes.

    I believe that Tiger's perceived loss of distance (or the fact that the rest of the tour started catching up to him in the distance category) had more to do with his equipment than his golf swing. He insisted on staying with a 43 3/4-inch steel-shafted driver with a smaller head, while his fellow-competitors were playing 45-inch graphite shafts and jumbo titanium heads.

    It's hard to question Tiger's reluctance to make a dramatic equipment change. He was the best player in the world. Tossing your driver when you're playing great is a tough thing to do. There were plenty of graphite shafts Tiger could have hit, but he took a cautious approach to change. No one can fault him for that decision. But I think overhauling his golf swing was a mistake when putting a new driver in the bag would have done the trick."

    .

    Now, all this was TWs call. But, if TW had grown up with graphite/titanium OR that tech didnt come about right in his prime

    Man, its hard to imagine the even more insane numbers he would have put up.

    Not necessarily BSC. Bigger distance, bigger misses. He stuck with what got him there as did others but some embraced tech quickly and took advantage.Tiger was stunned circa 2003-2004-2005 how many people were blowing it past him yet he still found his groove again.. Few had his combination of iron/wedge play, short game and of course reliable clutch putting.It didnt matter how he drove it, it never has.Only recently ( last year) did drives really cost him. He was the ultimate feel guy so finding a graphite shaft was a huge undertaking. In my opinion he should have switched way sooner but im sure he saw the results as a validation with the steel shaft in his woods. You think year 2000 tiger would look in to the future and see a 5 wood in the bag? No way but he adapted and succeeded. Hes fully invested in tech now and its extended his window.Molinari was outdriving him all of sunday round. Did it matter? nope

  • JAMH03JAMH03 Members Posts: 436 ✭✭

    @Naptime said:
    Not sure what equipment and training has to do with it, since we aren't saying 2019 TW is playing against 1970 Jack. Their equipment and beer belly physique (or not) was same as their competition. Like saying Jackie Stewart is worse than Lewis Hamilton because his F1 car had less tech. Jackie isn't racing Lewis head to head.

    If thats the case then we need to compare them via % $ won, total wins, probably scoring averages, and finishes vs quality of fields. Surely some other metrics as well, but either way then GOAT has already been determined.

    Comparisons are odious.

  • kmckmc Members Posts: 174 ✭✭

    just read an interesting stat. in each of their first 22 majors, jack won 7, tiger won 8. score to par. jack 40 over, tiger 121under.

  • kmckmc Members Posts: 174 ✭✭

    error jack +40, tiger -81. too early for math.

  • Ashley SchaefferAshley Schaeffer Members Posts: 2,009 ✭✭

    @kmc said:
    error jack +40, tiger -81. too early for math.

    That is an incredible stat! I’m sure we will get to read about how JN could’ve shot lower if he had really wanted to.

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  • Ashley SchaefferAshley Schaeffer Members Posts: 2,009 ✭✭

    @lowheel said:

    @bscinstnct said:

    @Kdaniel72 said:
    Tiger played with much better equipment, coaching and technology. The coaching he received was brought to the forefront by Jack! Without Jack there is no Tiger. I think they are in a dead heat as GOAT. However Jack never had self inflicted wounds. With more time to play for Tiger. I think he will overtake the Golden Bear.

    Tiger was actually a victim of getting caught in the graphite/titanium driver revolution.

    He grew up and played steel shafts/heads in his driver when he came on tour and instead of upgrading faster as the tech rolled out, he stuck with old tech and left butch and changed his swing. By the time he upgraded, he had changed his swing, but never got the same advantage back.

    Here is butch

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golfdigest.com/story/gd0608_harmontiger/amp

    "One of the reasons I believe Tiger felt he needed to change his swing was to increase his driving distance. When he first turned pro, Tiger drove it past everybody by a healthy margin. Davis Love III and John Daly were close, but no one consistently hit it as far and in as many fairways as did Tiger. When he needed to blast it past an opponent, he had that ability. Then, in about 2001, players started catching up with him. Ernie Els, Phil Mickelson and Vijay Singh all started hitting the ball close to, if not as long as, Tiger, and occasionally those players and others hit it by him. He never admitted it, but I believe that bothered him. He knew he generated more clubhead speed than anyone else out there, and he had gotten even faster since he'd started working out in his mid-20s, so being challenged off the tee was not something that was supposed to happen. When it did, I think he decided he needed to make some changes.

    I believe that Tiger's perceived loss of distance (or the fact that the rest of the tour started catching up to him in the distance category) had more to do with his equipment than his golf swing. He insisted on staying with a 43 3/4-inch steel-shafted driver with a smaller head, while his fellow-competitors were playing 45-inch graphite shafts and jumbo titanium heads.

    It's hard to question Tiger's reluctance to make a dramatic equipment change. He was the best player in the world. Tossing your driver when you're playing great is a tough thing to do. There were plenty of graphite shafts Tiger could have hit, but he took a cautious approach to change. No one can fault him for that decision. But I think overhauling his golf swing was a mistake when putting a new driver in the bag would have done the trick."

    .

    Now, all this was TWs call. But, if TW had grown up with graphite/titanium OR that tech didnt come about right in his prime

    Man, its hard to imagine the even more insane numbers he would have put up.

    Not necessarily BSC. Bigger distance, bigger misses. He stuck with what got him there as did others but some embraced tech quickly and took advantage.Tiger was stunned circa 2003-2004-2005 how many people were blowing it past him yet he still found his groove again.. Few had his combination of iron/wedge play, short game and of course reliable clutch putting.It didnt matter how he drove it, it never has.Only recently ( last year) did drives really cost him. He was the ultimate feel guy so finding a graphite shaft was a huge undertaking. In my opinion he should have switched way sooner but im sure he saw the results as a validation with the steel shaft in his woods. You think year 2000 tiger would look in to the future and see a 5 wood in the bag? No way but he adapted and succeeded. Hes fully invested in tech now and its extended his window.Molinari was outdriving him all of sunday round. Did it matter? nope

    Only last year did drives really cost him? Uh... I suppose game over.

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  • bulls9999bulls9999 Members Posts: 696 ✭✭
    edited Apr 20, 2019 1:22pm #26

    I'm sorry, I don't think you can compare them and I think Tiger is well more the GOAT than Jack is. And I preface that because half the players in the field in Jack's day were normal people, drinking heavily in the evenings. Have you not heard stories from David Ferherty, Jimmy Demeret, Ken Venturi, and other 'older players' from that day about how people would show up half tanked for saturday morning tee times celebrating they made the cut; saw the interviews and heard lots of them....was rampant among the lower half tier of players....limited the strength of the field that Jack and others were playing against by that kind of crew. Also, the depth of young players now because of AJGA and numerous lower tier junior state/regional golf tournaments that develope younger players better than ever before (they didn't have AJGA back in Jack's day; they maybe had regional amateur (Western, Southern Am), but not enough of them to develope an entire national platform of players like they the junior tours do today. So I'm going to say Tiger fought off more talent in the field than Jack ever did......after Trevino, Watson, Floyd, etc., and maybe a dozen others, the strength of field dropped off tremendously in terms of player ability; don't have such lack of depth down the leaderboard in Tiger's day.

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  • DpavsDpavs OverWRX'ed Members Posts: 3,335 ✭✭

    One thing I think is always ignored in these Jack vs Tiger threads is the effect global warming has on golf and how that would obviously more severely impact Tiger's record vs Jack's.

  • Kdaniel72Kdaniel72 Members Posts: 46 ✭✭

    Now that’s funny!

  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,136 ✭✭

    @Ashley Schaeffer said:

    @lowheel said:

    @bscinstnct said:

    @Kdaniel72 said:
    Tiger played with much better equipment, coaching and technology. The coaching he received was brought to the forefront by Jack! Without Jack there is no Tiger. I think they are in a dead heat as GOAT. However Jack never had self inflicted wounds. With more time to play for Tiger. I think he will overtake the Golden Bear.

    Tiger was actually a victim of getting caught in the graphite/titanium driver revolution.

    He grew up and played steel shafts/heads in his driver when he came on tour and instead of upgrading faster as the tech rolled out, he stuck with old tech and left butch and changed his swing. By the time he upgraded, he had changed his swing, but never got the same advantage back.

    Here is butch

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golfdigest.com/story/gd0608_harmontiger/amp

    "One of the reasons I believe Tiger felt he needed to change his swing was to increase his driving distance. When he first turned pro, Tiger drove it past everybody by a healthy margin. Davis Love III and John Daly were close, but no one consistently hit it as far and in as many fairways as did Tiger. When he needed to blast it past an opponent, he had that ability. Then, in about 2001, players started catching up with him. Ernie Els, Phil Mickelson and Vijay Singh all started hitting the ball close to, if not as long as, Tiger, and occasionally those players and others hit it by him. He never admitted it, but I believe that bothered him. He knew he generated more clubhead speed than anyone else out there, and he had gotten even faster since he'd started working out in his mid-20s, so being challenged off the tee was not something that was supposed to happen. When it did, I think he decided he needed to make some changes.

    I believe that Tiger's perceived loss of distance (or the fact that the rest of the tour started catching up to him in the distance category) had more to do with his equipment than his golf swing. He insisted on staying with a 43 3/4-inch steel-shafted driver with a smaller head, while his fellow-competitors were playing 45-inch graphite shafts and jumbo titanium heads.

    It's hard to question Tiger's reluctance to make a dramatic equipment change. He was the best player in the world. Tossing your driver when you're playing great is a tough thing to do. There were plenty of graphite shafts Tiger could have hit, but he took a cautious approach to change. No one can fault him for that decision. But I think overhauling his golf swing was a mistake when putting a new driver in the bag would have done the trick."

    .

    Now, all this was TWs call. But, if TW had grown up with graphite/titanium OR that tech didnt come about right in his prime

    Man, its hard to imagine the even more insane numbers he would have put up.

    Not necessarily BSC. Bigger distance, bigger misses. He stuck with what got him there as did others but some embraced tech quickly and took advantage.Tiger was stunned circa 2003-2004-2005 how many people were blowing it past him yet he still found his groove again.. Few had his combination of iron/wedge play, short game and of course reliable clutch putting.It didnt matter how he drove it, it never has.Only recently ( last year) did drives really cost him. He was the ultimate feel guy so finding a graphite shaft was a huge undertaking. In my opinion he should have switched way sooner but im sure he saw the results as a validation with the steel shaft in his woods. You think year 2000 tiger would look in to the future and see a 5 wood in the bag? No way but he adapted and succeeded. Hes fully invested in tech now and its extended his window.Molinari was outdriving him all of sunday round. Did it matter? nope

    Only last year did drives really cost him? Uh... I suppose game over.

    Whats difficult for you to understand?Last year he literally had 4-5 tourneys in a row where he had 1 OB drive every other round.you cant recover from those and contend.He changed shafts and throttled back and voila his misses are way smaller. Did you watch his final round at the PGA last year? He was missing fairways with a 3-4 iron. His iron play and the fact the the greens were soaked helped him. Throughout his career he was never as wild as he was last year off the tee. His recovery game in his prime was second to none so what exactly are you not grasping?

  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,136 ✭✭

    @bulls9999 said:
    I'm sorry, I don't think you can compare them and I think Tiger is well more the GOAT than Jack is. And I preface that because half the players in the field in Jack's day were normal people, drinking heavily in the evenings. Have you not heard stories from David Ferherty, Jimmy Demeret, Ken Venturi, and other 'older players' from that day about how people would show up half tanked for saturday morning tee times celebrating they made the cut; saw the interviews and heard lots of them....was rampant among the lower half tier of players....limited the strength of the field that Jack and others were playing against by that kind of crew. Also, the depth of young players now because of AJGA and numerous lower tier junior state/regional golf tournaments that develope younger players better than ever before (they didn't have AJGA back in Jack's day; they maybe had regional amateur (Western, Southern Am), but not enough of them to develope an entire national platform of players like they the junior tours do today. So I'm going to say Tiger fought off more talent in the field than Jack ever did......after Trevino, Watson, Floyd, etc., and maybe a dozen others, the strength of field dropped off tremendously in terms of player ability; don't have such lack of depth down the leaderboard in Tiger's day.

    This is new, Jack beat everybody because they were wasted!!! LMAO

  • straightshot7straightshot7 Members Posts: 2,982 ✭✭

    @lowheel said:

    @Ashley Schaeffer said:

    @lowheel said:

    @bscinstnct said:

    @Kdaniel72 said:
    Tiger played with much better equipment, coaching and technology. The coaching he received was brought to the forefront by Jack! Without Jack there is no Tiger. I think they are in a dead heat as GOAT. However Jack never had self inflicted wounds. With more time to play for Tiger. I think he will overtake the Golden Bear.

    Tiger was actually a victim of getting caught in the graphite/titanium driver revolution.

    He grew up and played steel shafts/heads in his driver when he came on tour and instead of upgrading faster as the tech rolled out, he stuck with old tech and left butch and changed his swing. By the time he upgraded, he had changed his swing, but never got the same advantage back.

    Here is butch

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golfdigest.com/story/gd0608_harmontiger/amp

    "One of the reasons I believe Tiger felt he needed to change his swing was to increase his driving distance. When he first turned pro, Tiger drove it past everybody by a healthy margin. Davis Love III and John Daly were close, but no one consistently hit it as far and in as many fairways as did Tiger. When he needed to blast it past an opponent, he had that ability. Then, in about 2001, players started catching up with him. Ernie Els, Phil Mickelson and Vijay Singh all started hitting the ball close to, if not as long as, Tiger, and occasionally those players and others hit it by him. He never admitted it, but I believe that bothered him. He knew he generated more clubhead speed than anyone else out there, and he had gotten even faster since he'd started working out in his mid-20s, so being challenged off the tee was not something that was supposed to happen. When it did, I think he decided he needed to make some changes.

    I believe that Tiger's perceived loss of distance (or the fact that the rest of the tour started catching up to him in the distance category) had more to do with his equipment than his golf swing. He insisted on staying with a 43 3/4-inch steel-shafted driver with a smaller head, while his fellow-competitors were playing 45-inch graphite shafts and jumbo titanium heads.

    It's hard to question Tiger's reluctance to make a dramatic equipment change. He was the best player in the world. Tossing your driver when you're playing great is a tough thing to do. There were plenty of graphite shafts Tiger could have hit, but he took a cautious approach to change. No one can fault him for that decision. But I think overhauling his golf swing was a mistake when putting a new driver in the bag would have done the trick."

    .

    Now, all this was TWs call. But, if TW had grown up with graphite/titanium OR that tech didnt come about right in his prime

    Man, its hard to imagine the even more insane numbers he would have put up.

    Not necessarily BSC. Bigger distance, bigger misses. He stuck with what got him there as did others but some embraced tech quickly and took advantage.Tiger was stunned circa 2003-2004-2005 how many people were blowing it past him yet he still found his groove again.. Few had his combination of iron/wedge play, short game and of course reliable clutch putting.It didnt matter how he drove it, it never has.Only recently ( last year) did drives really cost him. He was the ultimate feel guy so finding a graphite shaft was a huge undertaking. In my opinion he should have switched way sooner but im sure he saw the results as a validation with the steel shaft in his woods. You think year 2000 tiger would look in to the future and see a 5 wood in the bag? No way but he adapted and succeeded. Hes fully invested in tech now and its extended his window.Molinari was outdriving him all of sunday round. Did it matter? nope

    Only last year did drives really cost him? Uh... I suppose game over.

    Whats difficult for you to understand?Last year he literally had 4-5 tourneys in a row where he had 1 OB drive every other round.you cant recover from those and contend.He changed shafts and throttled back and voila his misses are way smaller. Did you watch his final round at the PGA last year? He was missing fairways with a 3-4 iron. His iron play and the fact the the greens were soaked helped him. Throughout his career he was never as wild as he was last year off the tee. His recovery game in his prime was second to none so what exactly are you not grasping?

    @lowheel said:

    @Ashley Schaeffer said:

    @lowheel said:

    @bscinstnct said:

    @Kdaniel72 said:
    Tiger played with much better equipment, coaching and technology. The coaching he received was brought to the forefront by Jack! Without Jack there is no Tiger. I think they are in a dead heat as GOAT. However Jack never had self inflicted wounds. With more time to play for Tiger. I think he will overtake the Golden Bear.

    Tiger was actually a victim of getting caught in the graphite/titanium driver revolution.

    He grew up and played steel shafts/heads in his driver when he came on tour and instead of upgrading faster as the tech rolled out, he stuck with old tech and left butch and changed his swing. By the time he upgraded, he had changed his swing, but never got the same advantage back.

    Here is butch

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golfdigest.com/story/gd0608_harmontiger/amp

    "One of the reasons I believe Tiger felt he needed to change his swing was to increase his driving distance. When he first turned pro, Tiger drove it past everybody by a healthy margin. Davis Love III and John Daly were close, but no one consistently hit it as far and in as many fairways as did Tiger. When he needed to blast it past an opponent, he had that ability. Then, in about 2001, players started catching up with him. Ernie Els, Phil Mickelson and Vijay Singh all started hitting the ball close to, if not as long as, Tiger, and occasionally those players and others hit it by him. He never admitted it, but I believe that bothered him. He knew he generated more clubhead speed than anyone else out there, and he had gotten even faster since he'd started working out in his mid-20s, so being challenged off the tee was not something that was supposed to happen. When it did, I think he decided he needed to make some changes.

    I believe that Tiger's perceived loss of distance (or the fact that the rest of the tour started catching up to him in the distance category) had more to do with his equipment than his golf swing. He insisted on staying with a 43 3/4-inch steel-shafted driver with a smaller head, while his fellow-competitors were playing 45-inch graphite shafts and jumbo titanium heads.

    It's hard to question Tiger's reluctance to make a dramatic equipment change. He was the best player in the world. Tossing your driver when you're playing great is a tough thing to do. There were plenty of graphite shafts Tiger could have hit, but he took a cautious approach to change. No one can fault him for that decision. But I think overhauling his golf swing was a mistake when putting a new driver in the bag would have done the trick."

    .

    Now, all this was TWs call. But, if TW had grown up with graphite/titanium OR that tech didnt come about right in his prime

    Man, its hard to imagine the even more insane numbers he would have put up.

    Not necessarily BSC. Bigger distance, bigger misses. He stuck with what got him there as did others but some embraced tech quickly and took advantage.Tiger was stunned circa 2003-2004-2005 how many people were blowing it past him yet he still found his groove again.. Few had his combination of iron/wedge play, short game and of course reliable clutch putting.It didnt matter how he drove it, it never has.Only recently ( last year) did drives really cost him. He was the ultimate feel guy so finding a graphite shaft was a huge undertaking. In my opinion he should have switched way sooner but im sure he saw the results as a validation with the steel shaft in his woods. You think year 2000 tiger would look in to the future and see a 5 wood in the bag? No way but he adapted and succeeded. Hes fully invested in tech now and its extended his window.Molinari was outdriving him all of sunday round. Did it matter? nope

    Only last year did drives really cost him? Uh... I suppose game over.

    Whats difficult for you to understand?Last year he literally had 4-5 tourneys in a row where he had 1 OB drive every other round.you cant recover from those and contend.He changed shafts and throttled back and voila his misses are way smaller. Did you watch his final round at the PGA last year? He was missing fairways with a 3-4 iron. His iron play and the fact the the greens were soaked helped him. Throughout his career he was never as wild as he was last year off the tee. His recovery game in his prime was second to none so what exactly are you not grasping?

    Highly doubt that he had 8-10 drives go OB in a 4-5 tournament stretch last year...Let alone all year.

    But, yes he's obviously hitting it straighter this year. I think it has more to do with the fact that he's had a year of good health to practice and adopt his new swing. It looks totally in-sync now. He's also had the chance to get back in the gym and play more, which all helps balance and timing compared to laying in bed recovery from a back surgery/injury.

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