What powers the backswing?

I (a right-handed golfer) have always had a left-arm dominant backswing. This pushing from the lead side has led to two problems:

1. Forces my torso & head off the ball (i.e. backwards laterally) leading to inconsistent low point in downswing

2. Causes my head to rotate to the right which throws off my mental alignment to the target

When I try to use my right arm more, I feel like I lose width and depth, and do not have as much torque at the top of the backswing.

**My question is**: What is supposed to power the backswing? Is it primarily left arm, right arm, both equally? I've also heard to let the right shoulder power the takeaway...

I power the backswing with my shoulders maintaining my arm triangle through P2.

My feet, legs, core. Arms get “throw up” via the pivot. It ends when I feel my glute and core loaded. Especially the core. End might be the wrong word since I work on moving my pressure before the club starts moving down with max pressure around p3 to 50/50 at p4. I don’t really feel a pause/ stop.

Pancakes

The old timers forward pressed slightly onto their left foot and leg then rebounded onto their right foot and leg like walking sideways. The momentum from this trigger put the swing in motion. I"m not a Jim McLean fan but he does a pretty good job of explaining how it works.

It's almost imperceptible in some players but you can see it here if you look closely enough. Julius Boros...

Rotary Golf advocates using the right scapula to initiate the back swing....simple 3 or so inch move

My right hip and my hands.

> @Mink said:

> What is supposed to power the backswing? Is it primarily left arm, right arm, both equally? I've also head to let the right shoulder power the takeaway...

There is no unanimity of opinion on this issue. Pick up five golf instruction books, and you'll get five answers. You have to try several methods and see what works for you.

What powers the back swing? A good question that I really can't answer. I was taught to swing the club back with both hands and that's what I do. Nevertheless, if we dig a bit deeper and ask do the hands really move the club back and over my trail shoulder the answer must be no. Why? Because for the hands to swing the club over the trail shoulder something has to move the hands. What? The arms might the answer but an incomplete one. When I swing the club over my trail shoulder with my hands my body moves to make that possible, my shoulders and hips turn, my legs react, if they didn't I'd never get the club over my right shoulder. So what's powering the back swing? I suppose a cooperative effort of my hands, arms and body, but the only thing I'm conscious of using is my hands. Everything else that moves move instinctively to let me do what I want with my hands.

Now I hope now I can stop thinking about this and just focus on swinging back with my hands.

Steve

> @juststeve said:

> What powers the back swing? A good question that I really can't answer. I was taught to swing the club back with both hands and that's what I do. Nevertheless, if we dig a bit deeper and ask do the hands really move the club back and over my trail shoulder the answer must be no. Why? Because for the hands to swing the club over the trail shoulder something has to move the hands. What? The arms might the answer but an incomplete one. When I swing the club over my trail shoulder with my hands my body moves to make that possible, my shoulders and hips turn, my legs react, if they didn't I'd never get the club over my right shoulder. So what's powering the back swing? I suppose a cooperative effort of my hands, arms and body, but the only thing I'm conscious of using is my hands. Everything else that moves move instinctively to let me do what I want with my hands.

>

> Now I hope now I can stop thinking about this and just focus on swinging back with my hands.

>

> Steve

Thank you Steve-you made me smile. As I have mentioned a time or two in the past I took a few small group lessons with Manuel about 20 years ago here in Phoenix. My instructor at the time was Pam Barnett, a former LPGA winner and protege of Manuel whom you likely have met.

The smile comes from your phrasing. It is so apparent you spent a lot of time with Manuel because your posts read like he spoke.

Thank you!

> @Shilgy said:

> > @juststeve said:

> > What powers the back swing? A good question that I really can't answer. I was taught to swing the club back with both hands and that's what I do. Nevertheless, if we dig a bit deeper and ask do the hands really move the club back and over my trail shoulder the answer must be no. Why? Because for the hands to swing the club over the trail shoulder something has to move the hands. What? The arms might the answer but an incomplete one. When I swing the club over my trail shoulder with my hands my body moves to make that possible, my shoulders and hips turn, my legs react, if they didn't I'd never get the club over my right shoulder. So what's powering the back swing? I suppose a cooperative effort of my hands, arms and body, but the only thing I'm conscious of using is my hands. Everything else that moves move instinctively to let me do what I want with my hands.

> >

> > Now I hope now I can stop thinking about this and just focus on swinging back with my hands.

> >

> > Steve

>

> Thank you Steve-you made me smile. As I have mentioned a time or two in the past I took a few small group lessons with Manuel about 20 years ago here in Phoenix. My instructor at the time was Pam Barnett, a former LPGA winner and protege of Manuel whom you likely have met.

>

> The smile comes from your phrasing. It is so apparent you spent a lot of time with Manuel because your posts read like he spoke.

>

> Thank you!

>

Noted. I appreciate the insight.

I guess I'll chalk this up as yet another question whose answer lies in the grey area of the "technically correct / swing your swing" spectrum.

Sometimes people are looking for elaborate micro moves to fix their golf swings instead looking at the swing in terms of an athletic motion.

It’s different for everyone. For me it’s not hands. At all. It’s my hips and torso. My hands stay connected and along for the ride . That’s the feel anyway. If I feel like I’m leading or swinging with hands. I’m all over the place.

I think of using both hands. Of course the arms play a role. But I feel the body just responds.

I used to have all kinds of thoughts about what the body does, but I found it counterproductive. Just visualize the swing arc. Swing it straight back and let nature take its course.

I've discovered that if I used my trail arm as the backswing engine, then it stays in sync with my shoulder turn and prevents me from over-rotating and getting out of sync with my hands/arms and my shoulders. And doing this also lets me set the club in a good feeling in transition to make a powerful move on the downswing.

The inspiration for this discovery came from Monte's various videos and posts... but to be clear, I'd doubt I even took the right things away from his videos/posts LOL!

> @bladehunter said:

> It’s different for everyone. For me it’s not hands. At all. It’s my hips and torso. My hands stay connected and along for the ride . That’s the feel anyway. If I feel like I’m leading or swinging with hands. I’m all over the place.

Clearly it's just a feel though. You prefer an upright swing as I recall. How do you swing upright with the hips and torso?

> @Shilgy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > It’s different for everyone. For me it’s not hands. At all. It’s my hips and torso. My hands stay connected and along for the ride . That’s the feel anyway. If I feel like I’m leading or swinging with hands. I’m all over the place.

>

> Clearly it's just a feel though. You prefer an upright swing as I recall. How do you swing upright with the hips and torso?

You can do it. Just requires a little bend at the waist and a lot of flexibility.

> @Shilgy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > It’s different for everyone. For me it’s not hands. At all. It’s my hips and torso. My hands stay connected and along for the ride . That’s the feel anyway. If I feel like I’m leading or swinging with hands. I’m all over the place.

>

> Clearly it's just a feel though. You prefer an upright swing as I recall. How do you swing upright with the hips and torso?

We all have muscles that move subconsciously. Armsy players who's turn is completely subconscious, and body driven players who's arms lift without them actively thinking about it.

Both get to the same position in the same way, we just all have different feels and movement tendencies.

Problem comes when someone who naturally lifts their arms claims they don't and that a body turn alone put's one in a perfect top of the backswing position (or visa versa). This has been debunked so many times since 3D motion systems have been about.

My observation is not universal and is probably specific to me and my swing faults. Generally I hate to offer instruction stuff, but I've had a very similar problem in that I used to use my left arm as a lever on a fulcrum (and it caused restriction and other problems when it was NOT working). I found that by controlling the backswing with my right arm I could make a much more complete turn. For me this is a fairly significant increase over my old method of powering the swing from the left. By pulling to the right, my turn probably increased 10% or more. To my surprise I found I could keep the left arm just as straight as I did with the left dominate backswing. I also found that a slightly more right side dominate downswing helped me prevent a very early release, which was another of my swing faults. Good luck.

> @ironcat said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > It’s different for everyone. For me it’s not hands. At all. It’s my hips and torso. My hands stay connected and along for the ride . That’s the feel anyway. If I feel like I’m leading or swinging with hands. I’m all over the place.

> >

> > Clearly it's just a feel though. You prefer an upright swing as I recall. How do you swing upright with the hips and torso?

>

> We all have muscles that move subconsciously. Armsy players who's turn is completely subconscious, and body driven players who's arms lift without them actively thinking about it.

> Both get to the same position in the same way, we just all have different feels and movement tendencies.

>

> Problem comes when someone who naturally lifts their arms claims they don't and that a body turn alone put's one in a perfect top of the backswing position (or visa versa). This has been debunked so many times since 3D motion systems have been about.

>

>

>

>

Never said it wasn’t true. As a former handsy player who played low single digits with a john Daly backswing. I know I’m more core driven now. Just stopped the arm overrun etc.

Sure. New tech can debunk feel. But. Feel that hasn’t been messed with by tech is usually what you find in the best players. It’s the guy who’s searching that needs a computer printout for every swing to feel like he’s “ in a good position “.

KISS. The swing doesn’t have to be difficult. Not if you’re reasonably coordinated.

definitely ankles/knees/upper legs..leading the torso. not the other way round.

> @ironcat said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > It’s different for everyone. For me it’s not hands. At all. It’s my hips and torso. My hands stay connected and along for the ride . That’s the feel anyway. If I feel like I’m leading or swinging with hands. I’m all over the place.

> >

> > Clearly it's just a feel though. You prefer an upright swing as I recall. How do you swing upright with the hips and torso?

>

> We all have muscles that move subconsciously. Armsy players who's turn is completely subconscious, and body driven players who's arms lift without them actively thinking about it.

> Both get to the same position in the same way, we just all have different feels and movement tendencies.

>

> Problem comes when someone who naturally lifts their arms claims they don't and that a body turn alone put's one in a perfect top of the backswing position (or visa versa). This has been debunked so many times since 3D motion systems have been about.

>

>

>

>

Exactly-that was my point. And Blade explained his meaning it his next post below yours. The feel helps him stop arm overrun.

> @Man_O_War said:

> definitely ankles/knees/upper legs..leading the torso. not the other way round.

Opposite of what I would have thought.

The feet kick start the torso and arms, one piece takeaway. The momentum will carry you smoothly to the top with a nice rhythmic looking motion.

> @Tanner25 said:

> > @Man_O_War said:

> > definitely ankles/knees/upper legs..leading the torso. not the other way round.

>

> Opposite of what I would have thought.

Yup. but better teachers from old : Toski, Flick, Mike Austin demonstrate that the best..and they rarely had bad backs and bionic wrists

The spine...

> @mikpga said:

> The spine...

I hope not

Extending, Tilting, and Turning are components which have a large influence on the quality of the strike, and will also influence the speed of the strike...