Bigger impact for a high handicapper: shorter shaft or new driver

ThertyTherty SDMembers Posts: 75 ✭✭

Ok kids, Im a 20 handicapper who has Big driver struggles. Historical miss, big open face inpact slice. Swing changes moving towards fixing that, but now Ive got a big pull miss too. Im working on it.
Knowing my swing is changing, lets talk equipment. I like playing as much golf as possible (~2 rds/week), so while Im improving my swing, id like to be able to lose less than the 11 strokes I took off the tee this weekend.

Ive got an SLDR430. Dont everyone laugh at once. I measured the shaft, turns out its a 46” driver. Pause for effect. Knowing what we know (and considering it cost me $40), do I jump in on a $200-$300 full replacement, or do i trim the shaft down to 44.5 and get a new grip and continue to game it? Whats going to make a bigger immediate impact on my game while I continue to build my swing? (Yes, I have a professional and am taking lessons)

Thoughts?

SLDR 430 (lol) + Kuro Kage Stiff 
Ping G 3 wood 14.5* + Ping Tour 80 Stiff
Maltby TS-2 2 Iron 18*
Adams DHy 21* + White Tie Stiff
CG16 Tour Black Pearl 4i-P + TT DG S300
53* and 58* Mizuno S5 Blue Ion
Nike Origin B1-01 34"
«134

Comments

  • RogerinNewZealandRogerinNewZealand Members Posts: 2,351 ✭✭

    I watched a a video here yesterday br Clay Ballard on fixing your swing.
    Great stuff.

    2019 May

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  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,070 ✭✭
    edited Apr 23, 2019 10:42am #4

    @Therty said:
    Ok kids, Im a 20 handicapper who has Big driver struggles. Historical miss, big open face inpact slice. Swing changes moving towards fixing that, but now Ive got a big pull miss too. Im working on it.
    Knowing my swing is changing, lets talk equipment. I like playing as much golf as possible (~2 rds/week), so while Im improving my swing, id like to be able to lose less than the 11 strokes I took off the tee this weekend.

    Ive got an SLDR430. Dont everyone laugh at once. I measured the shaft, turns out its a 46” driver. Pause for effect. Knowing what we know (and considering it cost me $40), do I jump in on a $200-$300 full replacement, or do i trim the shaft down to 44.5 and get a new grip and continue to game it? Whats going to make a bigger immediate impact on my game while I continue to build my swing? (Yes, I have a professional and am taking lessons)

    Thoughts?

    New stock lengths aren't really any shorter for most offerings so you'll likely need to go shorter in any case. And yes, playing lengths too long is by far the biggest source of problems for amateurs and their drivers. And that includes better players as well so the fact that you will be working on and improving your swing doesn't really change that as much as you might think it will. Even a large percentage of Pro's like to keep the driver playing length less than 45". So you might as well start with the club you have and shorten that, then judge if there might be additional benefits to getting a newer head (also played shorter than the stock lengths).

    This is the best tutorial on how to approach the task of fitting yourself for a shorter playing length. All that's really needed is some foot powder spray, a roll of lead tape, and some time on the driving range.

    https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/909991/diy-driver-tune-up-diy-fitting/p1

    EDIT: Actually, I'd recommend first cutting it down 1" - then go through the tutorial to see how much more you might need to reduce the playing length.

    Post edited by Stuart_G on
  • IDrive300FsportIDrive300Fsport ClubWRX Posts: 42 ClubWRX

    Spend some time fixing your swing would be a lot cheaper option. But if you are looking to spend $200-$300. I’d look into the ping G400 max. And then fixing the swing.

  • jlukesjlukes Members Posts: 170 ✭✭

    Getting properly fit is the real answer

    Ping G410 Plus 9* ACCRA TZ5 65 M5
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  • Lord HelmetLord Helmet Members Posts: 8,683 ✭✭

    Find yourself a Ping G series driver (25, 30, g, etc). The SLDR isnt going to cover up your misses. Glad you got a pro helping you. And 46" length is hard to control for anyone - so keep that in mind.

    Cobra F9 - Atmos TS Black 6x
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  • TherealpatgilesTherealpatgiles Members Posts: 320 ✭✭

    Getting fitted is key. I was the same person you are last year. I got fitted for irons. Dropped about 10 strokes per 18 holes. This year I got fitted for driver, hit about 6 of 10 fairways with driver, misses are in the rough instead of on the next hole. A lesson or two to work on swing mechanics would probably benefit greatly.

    Taylormade m5 9 ad gp 7x
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  • bulls9999bulls9999 Members Posts: 696 ✭✭

    Shorter shaft for sure... 44.5-45 tops (don't cut down too much, you'd be amazed at how much of an effect that 0.5-inch has). Also, play around with shafts, the shaft/head adapters allow you to pick up different versions of a shaft to test which one is better suited to you. I have had Project X velocity PxV in Stiff, Reg, and Sr, and increased ~15 yards with each one from Stiff->Reg->Sr, but my dispersion was most with Sr, so I've dropped back to Reg. Now I've landed on a Speeder 565 Reg which I really like, but it's a bit soft, so I'm thinking either 565 Stiff 655 Reg or would fill the bill as the alternate pairing in that series. I've finally got my driver(s) worked out for 2019.

    @Therty said:
    Ok kids, Im a 20 handicapper who has Big driver struggles. Historical miss, big open face inpact slice. Swing changes moving towards fixing that, but now Ive got a big pull miss too. Im working on it.
    Knowing my swing is changing, lets talk equipment. I like playing as much golf as possible (~2 rds/week), so while Im improving my swing, id like to be able to lose less than the 11 strokes I took off the tee this weekend.

    Ive got an SLDR430. Dont everyone laugh at once. I measured the shaft, turns out its a 46” driver. Pause for effect. Knowing what we know (and considering it cost me $40), do I jump in on a $200-$300 full replacement, or do i trim the shaft down to 44.5 and get a new grip and continue to game it? Whats going to make a bigger immediate impact on my game while I continue to build my swing? (Yes, I have a professional and am taking lessons)

    Thoughts?

    GHIN Index 13.8
  • NessismNessism To measure is to know... Members Posts: 18,344 ✭✭

    @Lord Helmet said:
    Find yourself a Ping G series driver (25, 30, g, etc). The SLDR isnt going to cover up your misses. Glad you got a pro helping you. And 46" length is hard to control for anyone - so keep that in mind.

    I agree with picking up a G25 or G30. Shorten the shaft down to 44.5" and add some weight to the head to restore lost swingweight. All in for $100 or so.

    Ping G400 driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver 60S
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  • chigolfer1chigolfer1 Members Posts: 865 ✭✭

    @TnJohn said:
    New Driver with shorter shaft. SLDR 430 is way too unforgiving for a 20 handicapper.

    Yeah, no matter what, get a new head and don't waste your time tinkering with that one.

  • gvogelgvogel Members Posts: 7,320 ✭✭

    Thoughts?

    Mini driver. I have seen more than a few guys with an over-the-top swing benefit from a mini driver.

    On Sundays, I used to play hickory
  • ThertyTherty SDMembers Posts: 75 ✭✭

    Thanks for the inputs guys - I'll take a look at that DIY driver thread, and am looking into a fitting when I have some time to do so, at least to get all of the info.

    @gvogel said:
    Thoughts?

    Mini driver. I have seen more than a few guys with an over-the-top swing benefit from a mini driver.

    Over-the-top delivery isn't my swing fault so much anymore. My biggest problem is I have almost no face control. It's a shot in the dark every swing. Trying to find the thoughts and feels that get this taken care of.

    SLDR 430 (lol) + Kuro Kage Stiff 
    Ping G 3 wood 14.5* + Ping Tour 80 Stiff
    Maltby TS-2 2 Iron 18*
    Adams DHy 21* + White Tie Stiff
    CG16 Tour Black Pearl 4i-P + TT DG S300
    53* and 58* Mizuno S5 Blue Ion
    Nike Origin B1-01 34"
  • chigolfer1chigolfer1 Members Posts: 865 ✭✭

    @Therty said:
    Thanks for the inputs guys - I'll take a look at that DIY driver thread, and am looking into a fitting when I have some time to do so, at least to get all of the info.

    @gvogel said:
    Thoughts?

    Mini driver. I have seen more than a few guys with an over-the-top swing benefit from a mini driver.

    Over-the-top delivery isn't my swing fault so much anymore. My biggest problem is I have almost no face control. It's a shot in the dark every swing. Trying to find the thoughts and feels that get this taken care of.

    Have you seen the Tyler videos on the "motorcycle move?"
    https://golfsmartacademy.com/golf-instruction/motorcycle-timing/

  • RainShadowRainShadow Tucson AZ (for now)Members Posts: 3,680 ✭✭

    Try choking down an inch. This will in effect counterbalance the club a little and will likely improve your consistency.
    This has helped me immensely through out my bag, actually.

    Ping G400 10.5 Hzrdus Yellow 75 6.0
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    G 410 19* Tour 85 R
    Apex  23 & 26 Kuro Kage S
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  • ThertyTherty SDMembers Posts: 75 ✭✭

    @RainShadow said:
    Try choking down an inch. This will in effect counterbalance the club a little and will likely improve your consistency.
    This has helped me immensely through out my bag, actually.

    I have been trying this yes - I'm bad about the 18 hole follow through, If I'm going to play it short I just want to cut the shaft and lead tape swingweight adjust, rather than the constant extra thought at address.

    SLDR 430 (lol) + Kuro Kage Stiff 
    Ping G 3 wood 14.5* + Ping Tour 80 Stiff
    Maltby TS-2 2 Iron 18*
    Adams DHy 21* + White Tie Stiff
    CG16 Tour Black Pearl 4i-P + TT DG S300
    53* and 58* Mizuno S5 Blue Ion
    Nike Origin B1-01 34"
  • RainShadowRainShadow Tucson AZ (for now)Members Posts: 3,680 ✭✭

    @Therty said:

    @RainShadow said:
    Try choking down an inch. This will in effect counterbalance the club a little and will likely improve your consistency.
    This has helped me immensely through out my bag, actually.

    I have been trying this yes - I'm bad about the 18 hole follow through, If I'm going to play it short I just want to cut the shaft and lead tape swingweight adjust, rather than the constant extra thought at address.

    I have a hard time remembering as well, so I write it down on a card that's in with my gloves.
    If you donut down, add some lead tape (whatever the weight of the piece you cut off) to the butt end as well....still giving the CB effect.
    I was just listening to the Callaway Fitting guys discussing this on the radio yesterday, interesting convo for sure.

    Ping G400 10.5 Hzrdus Yellow 75 6.0
    Rogue 17* Atmos Blue TS
    G 410 19* Tour 85 R
    Apex  23 & 26 Kuro Kage S
    Cobra Forged Tec Black 6-GW Modus 105s (In Play) / Srixon Z765 6-GW Modus 105s (Standing By)
    MackDaddy4 Black 54 S and RTX 3 Raw 58* 
     Bettinardi '16 BB1 / '16 Bettinardi Tiki /  '17 Studio Stock 8
    Chrome Soft / TP5/ Wilson Staff FG Tour
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,070 ✭✭
    edited Apr 23, 2019 5:28pm #18

    What you might need to do with the head weight to get the best results is going to the the same regardless of whether you are cutting down or choking up. The only real difference between the two approaches is that the grip size is a little bit smaller when choking up.

    EDIT: And just because an inch of the grip butt is sticking past your hand doesn't really qualify as truly counterbalanced.

    Post edited by Stuart_G on
  • tsecortsecor Loading........ Members Posts: 4,122 ✭✭

    Forget the new driver.....wasted money.....new shorter shaft and a few swing lessons....

  • chigolfer1chigolfer1 Members Posts: 865 ✭✭

    @tsecor said:
    Forget the new driver.....wasted money.....new shorter shaft and a few swing lessons....

    Disagree if he's keeping that driver head

  • tsecortsecor Loading........ Members Posts: 4,122 ✭✭

    Golf isn't an exact science so as a 20 HDCP player who can only get better, spending $500 on a new driver is a waste of money. There are 50 ways to skin a cat without blowing 500 on a club you hit 14x a round while shooting 100+ > @chigolfer1 said:

    @tsecor said:
    Forget the new driver.....wasted money.....new shorter shaft and a few swing lessons....

    Disagree if he's keeping that driver head

  • chigolfer1chigolfer1 Members Posts: 865 ✭✭

    @tsecor said:
    Golf isn't an exact science so as a 20 HDCP player who can only get better, spending $500 on a new driver is a waste of money. There are 50 ways to skin a cat without blowing 500 on a club you hit 14x a round while shooting 100+ > @chigolfer1 said:

    @tsecor said:
    Forget the new driver.....wasted money.....new shorter shaft and a few swing lessons....

    Disagree if he's keeping that driver head

    I think he can spend $250 - $300 on a couple years old driver that is going to give him way more forgiveness than what he's using.

  • ThertyTherty SDMembers Posts: 75 ✭✭

    @tsecor said:
    Forget the new driver.....wasted money.....new shorter shaft and a few swing lessons....

    That's where I'm leaning, at least at a first pass. What's the right length? Do I go to 44.5"? 43"? I'm thinking about trying to go to 44" and then re-evaluate....

    SLDR 430 (lol) + Kuro Kage Stiff 
    Ping G 3 wood 14.5* + Ping Tour 80 Stiff
    Maltby TS-2 2 Iron 18*
    Adams DHy 21* + White Tie Stiff
    CG16 Tour Black Pearl 4i-P + TT DG S300
    53* and 58* Mizuno S5 Blue Ion
    Nike Origin B1-01 34"
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,070 ✭✭
    edited Apr 23, 2019 5:44pm #24

    @chigolfer1 said:

    @tsecor said:
    Forget the new driver.....wasted money.....new shorter shaft and a few swing lessons....

    Disagree if he's keeping that driver head

    The head is only unforgiving if you can't get consistent center face impact. And even then it's only bad if the high amount of gear effect is adding to the natural flaw tendencies. It actually can be a more forgiving head if the added gear effect is helping to counter the natural miss tendencies. e.g. for a swing based slice tendency combined with a toe side miss tendency that head will actually be more "forgiving" than any of the higher MOI heads mentioned.

    But bottom line is that 1) it's bad to make generalizations about how forgiving or not any head might be and 2) Finding the right playing length plays a major part in how consistent or not that face contact is and therefore much more important than the particular model head used (or how important it is to have a higher MOI head or not).

  • tsecortsecor Loading........ Members Posts: 4,122 ✭✭

    OR get the new Wilson driver for $399 is it? $299?? I forget what their new offering will cost.....like I said, 50 ways to skin a cat but to me the driver is the last way you need to go to improve your scores.....id be interested in how a 3W off the tee goes...playing 2+ rounds a week, losing 11 shots off the teee is as bad as it gets so even 2 lessons would chop that in half, regardless of the club. A clubs forgiveness cant make up for 11 shots lost off the tee.....maybe a used ping g400 would be helpful if you can find one cheap.....probably the most "forgiving" driver on the market if that's the way you want to go> @chigolfer1 said:

    @tsecor said:
    Golf isn't an exact science so as a 20 HDCP player who can only get better, spending $500 on a new driver is a waste of money. There are 50 ways to skin a cat without blowing 500 on a club you hit 14x a round while shooting 100+ > @chigolfer1 said:

    @tsecor said:
    Forget the new driver.....wasted money.....new shorter shaft and a few swing lessons....

    Disagree if he's keeping that driver head

    I think he can spend $250 - $300 on a couple years old driver that is going to give him way more forgiveness than what he's using.

  • ThertyTherty SDMembers Posts: 75 ✭✭
    edited Apr 23, 2019 5:50pm #26

    @tsecor said:
    Golf isn't an exact science so as a 20 HDCP player who can only get better, spending $500 on a new driver is a waste of money. There are 50 ways to skin a cat without blowing 500 on a club you hit 14x a round while shooting 100+ > @chigolfer1 said:

    @tsecor said:
    Forget the new driver.....wasted money.....new shorter shaft and a few swing lessons....

    Disagree if he's keeping that driver head

    @chigolfer1 said:

    @tsecor said:
    Golf isn't an exact science so as a 20 HDCP player who can only get better, spending $500 on a new driver is a waste of money. There are 50 ways to skin a cat without blowing 500 on a club you hit 14x a round while shooting 100+ > @chigolfer1 said:

    @tsecor said:
    Forget the new driver.....wasted money.....new shorter shaft and a few swing lessons....

    Disagree if he's keeping that driver head

    I think he can spend $250 - $300 on a couple years old driver that is going to give him way more forgiveness than what he's using.

    I agree with both of these things - and that's how I'm looking at it. $15 seems like the right jump to get a new grip and cut the shaft. I already have the lead tape to make sure my SW is in the ballpark when I go shorter.
    I shoot in the mid/high 90s pretty consistently (Avg score about 98), but Sunday I lost 11 strokes off the tee (worst driver perf in the last month, for whatever that's worth - I could dig in the stats but I'm probably averaging 3-4 shots), so I hit it 14 times, but a couple balls OB and splashing in the lake and it's a huge problem. Should I have pulled a different club? Yes, but my scores are much better with a 7/8 iron into a green than a 5 - so it's almost worth the risk. Driver has to get fixed and it will be a massive boon to my scores. That and putting. Ugh.

    My mindset is VERY much that my issues off the tee are MY fault, not my driver's - but there's no reason for me to be swinging a brick if theres something that better resembles a golf club which might give me a little help...

    SLDR 430 (lol) + Kuro Kage Stiff 
    Ping G 3 wood 14.5* + Ping Tour 80 Stiff
    Maltby TS-2 2 Iron 18*
    Adams DHy 21* + White Tie Stiff
    CG16 Tour Black Pearl 4i-P + TT DG S300
    53* and 58* Mizuno S5 Blue Ion
    Nike Origin B1-01 34"
  • tsecortsecor Loading........ Members Posts: 4,122 ✭✭

    That's a question only you can answer.....go to a store and swing a 44 or 44.5.....I just bought a new shaft 1/2" shorter than my 10 year gamer and its NOTICEABLY shorter.....you wouldn't think it would be so noticeable, but it is and it feels much lighter.....I will say shortening may help with control BUT you may lose some distance....maybe not......I mean, it sounds like control is an issue so shaft length could help but you still may have that 5 irons into the green......> @Therty said:

    @tsecor said:
    Forget the new driver.....wasted money.....new shorter shaft and a few swing lessons....

    That's where I'm leaning, at least at a first pass. What's the right length? Do I go to 44.5"? 43"? I'm thinking about trying to go to 44" and then re-evaluate....

  • contramotocontramoto Members Posts: 47 ✭✭

    I can't imagine hitting longer than 43" with a 20hc. I'm 59yo, play to a 12, and hit my 43" driver 240y consistently. I sometimes hit the 45" drivers in the bay at the golf stores. Spray the ball all over the place, and the good ones only go 250y.
    Getting fitted? Not for a 20hc with a swing flaw. Fitting works if you hit the ball pretty good...and consistently. Then the differences are apparent. If one swing is out to in with a slice, and the next one is straight with a hook...or one on the toe and the next on the heel...fitting won't do a **** thing for you.

    But a shorter shaft will.

  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,070 ✭✭

    @contramoto said:
    Getting fitted? Not for a 20hc with a swing flaw.

    Common misconception. Plenty of ways a 20 hcp can benifit from a fitting - and finding the proper playing length (and corresponding swing weight) is just one of them. In fact, they generally can see greater benefits from a fitting than the better players - who have generally already inherently gravitated toward equipment options that are a decent fit.

    Of course, that's assuming a good quality fitter. Retail store "fittings" don't count - those are just glorified demos. Fortunately, anyone can take care of most of the important fitting specs themselves with the tutorial I gave the link to earlier in the thread.

  • ChipNRunChipNRun Members Posts: 1,220 ✭✭

    @TnJohn said:
    New Driver with shorter shaft. SLDR 430 is way too unforgiving for a 20 handicapper.

    It's low-launch, low-spin head is tough for most golfers to handle.

    @jlukes said:
    Getting properly fit is the real answer

    Yes. As for your start, you paid $40 for the driver, found it doesn't work and now know to move on. A fitting will take equipment-related wobbles out of the way will get you half-way there. (And a shorter shaft likely will help the driver).

    Next, you have to take lessons and play to get the most out of the driver. And.... don't forget to have fun! (It's allowed in golf...)

    What's In The Bag *...

    Driver: Calla XR16 Pro 10.5° (set open) / Fuji Evolution II TS Speeder 665 R-flex 63 gr.
    FWs: Tour Edge XRail 4W + 7W / GraphiteDesign G60 R-flex 60 gr.
    or Calla Alpha 815, set 16° + 20° / Fuji Motore Speeder 665 R-flex 62 gr.
    Hybrid: Cobra FlyZ 3H 19° + 4H 22° / Matrix VLCT Altus Lite flex 73 gr.
    Irons: Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i - PW** / KBS Tour 90 R-flex 101 gr. (As of 21 Nov 2018)
    Wedge: Calla MD3 48°/8.SS + 54°/12.WS +
    MD.PM 60°/10  | KBS Tour R-flex 110 gr. |
    Putter: Slotline Inertial SL-583F / 34" w. SuperStroke 2.0 MidSlim grip
    Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag
    Ball: Calla SuperSoft
    * Either 7W or 3H left out, depending on course.
    ** Wedges: 46°and 48°are competing for bag space.
  • jjfcpajjfcpa Members Posts: 371 ✭✭

    Do not discount the Tour Edge EXS driver - custom specs $ 299. I made the switch recently from a Rogue Draw and I absolutely love it. It is so much more forgiving and yet provides longer drives even when you miss the sweet spot. I'm 71 years old and play to about a 15 handicap and I'm always looking for more distance and more fairways. This provides the best of both worlds for me. I'm only 5' 6" so I had it cut down to 44" and I find it so much easier to control. I'm actually picking out my spot and hitting it with my drives. The EXS is adjustable, but I've pretty much left it at the standard settings and they just seem to work for me.

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