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Hate my swing. Help!


zbot

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I'm hardly an expert, but it looks like you are opening the club face up big time on your backswing. It might be making you compensate by doing the "over the top" move. I'd focus first on your backswing. I only noticed, because I am battling the same thing right now.

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> @physasst said:

> I'm hardly an expert, but it looks like you are opening the club face up big time on your backswing. It might be making you compensate by doing the "over the top" move. I'd focus first on your backswing. I only noticed, because I am battling the same thing right now.

 

I see what you mean. It actually looks a little closed at the top, but opens up early in the takeaway.

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The first two things I thought about upon viewing your swing were:

**The takeaway**: you're releasing your left arm from your body, letting your hands go towards the ball and rolling your wrists, which subsequently forces the clubshaft to leave the plane immediately - from there you have to make adjustments through out the swing to just get back on plane. A common compensation of being under the plane in the backswing is getting over the top in the down swing.

 

**The constant bend in your left leg.**

You do a good job deepening your hips in the backswing - Tiger and Hogan is great examples of this - but then your right leg keeps its bend WITHOUT the left leg straightening. That makes your hips incapable of (properly) driving 45 degree to the left.

You do a bunch of good things, but you need to fix that takeaway and leg action, before you try to shallow the downswing.

 

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> @SmthCriminl said:

> The first two things I thought about upon viewing your swing were:

> **The takeaway**: you're releasing your left arm from your body, letting your hands go towards the ball and rolling your wrists, which subsequently forces the clubshaft to leave the plane immediately - from there you have to make adjustments through out the swing to just get back on plane. A common compensation of being under the plane in the backswing is getting over the top in the down swing.

>

> **The constant bend in your left leg.**

> You do a good job deepening your hips in the backswing - Tiger and Hogan is great examples of this - but then your right leg keeps its bend WITHOUT the left leg straightening. That makes your hips incapable of (properly) driving 45 degree to the left.

> You do a bunch of good things, but you need to fix that takeaway and leg action, before you try to shallow the downswing.

>

 

This is great.

Takeaway- would the correction here be to keep my hands moving along the plane my shoulders are turning on, while not letting the club get under plane?

Left leg bend- not sure when I started doing that, but I see it now.

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Watch Rosie takeaway here, at 1:50ish. He leaves the plane but saves it because he doesnt roll or break the wrists - this could be something to aim for short term. As you can see he's in as good position at the the top of the back swing as anyone you'll ever see. The breaking of the wrists will likely give you short game problem if it already hasn't.

 

 

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I'm no golf pro or instructor, but your club face still looks different at the top. Especially when you compare it to Justin Rose...Or Rory. At the 0.08 second point of your first video your club toe is pointing towards your front, while if you watch Justin Rose at 2:29 of the video above, OR Rory at 0.57 seconds of this video, the toe of their club face at the top is pointing towards the target. Again...I'm no expert, but it does not look the same.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zN7pkk0r4Q](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zN7pkk0r4Q "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zN7pkk0r4Q")

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> @zbot said:

> Looks like my backswing can stop a little sooner too, right? There's that move at the end where my elbow comes up and the club head comes across that doesn't look like it's adding anything.

 

2nd video looks like a slightly better backswing... looks like you get out of sync from the transition... lower body gets disconnected from upper body.

 

Take my observation with a grain of salt... not an expert in the least, just giving you an observation.

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  • 3 weeks later...

You actually have good body mechanics. Good hip turn and a decent backswing. The best advice I can give is to fix the "chicken wing" issue.

Your trail arm elbow is compromising your whole swing. You need to think about your elbow following your belly button, or jamming it into your ribcage. This will eliminate your massive out to in path.

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/golfwrxforums/uploads/editor/nt/62i9ntcbau62.png "")

In that picture, your hips are moving but your trail elbow has flared out. It's too late to fix at this point. The club is coming over the top.

7zppvioczgvh.png

Check out Tiger here from last year. In his transition, the trail elbow is pointing straight down, like "losing an arm wrestling match". His arm has collapsed into his ribcage, eliminating the over the top motion.

It is a hard transition to change and requires practice! But will for sure eliminate the over the top move. Cheers!

 

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> @laneholt said:

> You have such a severe over the top DS that it might take a somewhat radical thought to overcome it.

>

 

I know. I can't stop it. That and the chicken swing right arm. Just can't get myself to move in the right way.

Here's a new one from today. legs are out of sync again, but maybe the downswing is a little better.

 

 

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> @flanign2 said:

> You actually have good body mechanics. Good hip turn and a decent backswing. The best advice I can give is to fix the "chicken wing" issue.

> Your trail arm elbow is compromising your whole swing. You need to think about your elbow following your belly button, or jamming it into your ribcage. This will eliminate your massive out to in path.

> (https://s3.amazonaws.com/golfwrxforums/uploads/editor/nt/62i9ntcbau62.png "")

> In that picture, your hips are moving but your trail elbow has flared out. It's too late to fix at this point. The club is coming over the top.

> 7zppvioczgvh.png

> Check out Tiger here from last year. In his transition, the trail elbow is pointing straight down, like "losing an arm wrestling match". His arm has collapsed into his ribcage, eliminating the over the top motion.

> It is a hard transition to change and requires practice! But will for sure eliminate the over the top move. Cheers!

>

 

Definitely agree!


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Until you fix the back swing there's nothing you're going to be able to do in the downswing to fix over the over the top, your body is compensating to get the club back to the ball. If you try to shallow out and swing from the inside you'll end up throwing the club a few feet into the ground behind the ball or you'll make some other crazy moves (early extension ect).

-Like mentioned going back you move your hands toward the ball and roll the wrists

-left arm parallel if you draw a line through the shaft it's pointing several feet outside of the ball, club is way under plane

-you don't close the face as you get to the top, it's the opposite, you're left wrist is cupped and face is wide open

-shoulders and hips appear to rotate more parallel to the ground than perpendicular to the spine

 

If you look at the face on your first move is to roll the wrists in before doing anything else. The only way to really fix things is to really practice on getting the first half of the backswing better. Make sure the hands move more in and club stays more out, keeping the face pointing at the ball/path line for the first half of the backs wing should help get you started. Once you get that down you'll need to work on getting the shoulders and hips to turn properly. With your shoulders, if you put a club across it, at the top the club should be pointing somewhere down towards the ball. The hips need to turn at that same angle, right hip should go back and up while and the left hip comes out and down. Hopefully that makes some sense.

 

 

 

 

 

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> @MountainKing said:

> If you look at the face on your first move is to roll the wrists in before doing anything else. The only way to really fix things is to really practice on getting the first half of the backswing better. Make sure the hands move more in and club stays more out, keeping the face pointing at the ball/path line for the first half of the backs wing should help get you started.

>

 

This is fantastic. Needed something concrete to work with as I just couldn't get myself into any other position than the bad one I've grooved in. I'll get a video. I _feel_ a difference in how the club moves at the top with a better takeaway.

 

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> @zbot said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > If you look at the face on your first move is to roll the wrists in before doing anything else. The only way to really fix things is to really practice on getting the first half of the backswing better. Make sure the hands move more in and club stays more out, keeping the face pointing at the ball/path line for the first half of the backs wing should help get you started.

> >

>

> This is fantastic. Needed something concrete to work with as I just couldn't get myself into any other position than the bad one I've grooved in. I'll get a video. I _feel_ a difference in how the club moves at the top with a better takeaway.

>

 

There's a few great drills out there from different guys. A lot of them use the alignment stick drill:

 

 

I've suffered from the same issue over the years and that drill really helps keep the feel. You can get all the advice you want on your downswing, but none of it is going to work because it's all a result of that rolling of the arms. Fixing the downswing without fixing the real issue will just make you less consistent as you're just going to be developing more compensating moves to force yourself into positions. It'll take a lot of practice to fix it but it'll be worth it, you'll probably hit a ton of shots thin at first because you're body will naturally still stand up coming down until the brain figures out that you don't need to stand up anymore to get to the golf ball. If you can get into a good spot in the first half of your backswing, the rest hopefully should fall in place.

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So yeah, you need to stop pushing your hands "out," which flattens the club too much going back and makes you swing steep coming down. A really simple drill is to set up 2 alignment sticks: one along your foot line (be careful with your alignment), and one at the same angle as your clubshaft, just to your right about 3-4 feet. Practice swinging over the stick on the takeaway, keeping your hands in and club out (it will feel very steep and the clubface will feel closed), and then Under it coming down. Here's another very good drill from my instructor, James Jordan:

 

 

How to film your golf swing:

 

Down The Line

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> @laneholt said:

> Wow- I continue to be amazed at how much needless attention Is given to the “ BACKSWING. “ some make their living teaching it. I don’t suppose anyone ever taught such famous PGA winners such as Jim Furyk, Calvin Pete, Miller Barber and many , many more the proper BS. . Furyk has won 26 tournaments - 17 PGA events and no one would argue he probably has the oddest BS on tour, yet one of the best strikers on tour.

> Far to much is made of such a simple action . Most of us could stand at home plate and hit baseballs for infield practice without giving one second thought where we placed the bat - obviously somewhere behind our torso I would suggest. Our focus would be

>

>

 

Much easier to overcome a back swing that's outside the plane than inside/under. When you roll open and get the club under the plane the club feels heavier and you have to reroute it over the top. There's always going to be random guys who are exceptions who and can get away with bizarre moves, but if it was a secret to success you'd see tons of guys in tour by now trying to swing like Furyk and teachers teaching his swing. With that, how do you propose the original poster fixes his swing without working on the backswing?

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The bat analogy won't work, you hold the bat naturally outside the plane and when you swing the bat will naturally shallow. What happens if you take that bat and roll the forearms and wrist open before swinging? The bat would now be under the plane making much harder to get back to the ball with out a ton of effort. When the backswing is upright or outside the plane it's much easier to shallow.

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Hogan's hands move in and the club moves out like most great golfers. His forearms rotate appropriately, his first move isn't pushing the hands away from the body and to roll the wrists and forearms. His swing was perfectly on plane, the OP swing is far from on plane. All your examples are of golfers that are already doing it right or doing it in a way that makes it easier to do right, aka keeping the club over the plane going back rather than under. Ray Floyd is the closest I can think of but even his move isn't this, his hands still come in and then he just lifts. If the backswing wasn't causing the issue, OP wouldn't be here looking for advice. His first moves back will never allow the club to get in a good spot for consistent contact and power.

 

If he tried doing what you suggest, he'd burying the club into the ground a good foot behind the ball.

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> @laneholt said:

> I would suggest you spend your penny on what really matters - THE DOWNSWING! Program this in you mind and force / teach your HANDS to perform this task that is - TOTALLY FOREIGN TO HUMAN

>

Laneholt- I hear what you're saying. But correcting this has been my focus for 3 years and it hasn't worked, so why not change the backswing when I'm fighting a position that makes it difficult, mentally or physically for me to get the club on plane? I know I throw the club out over the top and the start of the DS. I know my right hand pushes. This doesn't happen with a baseball bat, tennis racket, ax, or anything else.

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  • 8 months later...

 

I believe it was Hogan who said sometimes he was thinking of sidearming/almost underhand throwing to 1st base. You have a right shoulder/side that wants to steal the show. Picture yourself fielding groundball sidearm throwing to 1st base with shoulder under and back. Or, you're a right handed batter trying to hit to right field. Again, right shoulder hanging low and back.

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1U7PI1OIW4G5.jpegThere are a lot of things you could change in your takeaway to make things easier, but in an effort to keep things simple I’m using this still frame to point out what I think is a major contributor to your overall issues.

I suspect your weight is on your toes even at setup, but even if not it quickly goes to your toes. At the moment shown above in transition you should be solidly pressuring or even “sitting into” your right heel. Instead, your right heel comes off the ground sometimes even before the club changes direction. At that point all your leg action is spent struggling for balance rather than turning ground pressure into rotation. The shaft stays steep, your hips stall and extend, and you throw your arms down from the top trying to make contact. Every move is a compensation.

So, feel weight evenly or favoring heels on setup, feel pressure into right heel (torqued into it, not swayed onto it) as you go to the top and right leg loses some flex, “sit” into right heel as you transition (regain flexion like you do in above pic but not on toes), use that pressure to rotate and feel like you’re rotating that pressure into your left heel, which pushes against the forward momentum of the arms/club swinging through and drives your left hip around. The right heel shouldn’t come up until it’s pulled up by the rotation.

Practice it without a club, then practice it swinging horizontally like a baseball bat, then add forward bend and practice it with a club and no ball. Feel heavy and stable and rotational.

In the pic above if you were sitting into the right heel and rotating with the feeling of flattening your left wrist, the club would likely shallow on its own.

 

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You have the potential to have an amazing swing and turn!!! If I were you I would only focus on doing the freezer drill, where you stop at the top for 5 seconds and then unwind the hips and let everything else come. If you did that exclusively for a week, it would transform your whole golf game and world. I can help you if you want, let me know.

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