Seduced by Distance Irons...

Popeye64Popeye64 Members Posts: 910 ✭✭

I have been a career blade style player with pretty close to traditional lofts. I had some KBS 105s shafts in my MMBs and I just didn't like the combo. Maltby came out with the TS-2 irons and I was definitely smitten with the clubs. Feel, ease of playing and wow... did they go far. I played a full season with them and had an excellent GIR last year but wasnt so close to the hole.
Gw was 120y. PW was 140 y, 9i was 158 y.. The issue was,,, I was having to go less than full swing on alot of holes or step on an iron to get it into a distance window. I am long enough off the tee that most of my second shots are inside 150.
So having a set of MMB heads laying around I shafted them up with some Paderson Ts shafts. Love them by the way.
Putting them back in play and being traditionally lofted I now am at 58° 70 Y.. 54° 95 Y.. GW 105.. PW 120.. 9 135.. 8 150.
I have been bombing the flag again with the much tighter gaps with the irons. But I'm still using the TS-2 5 and 6 iron. But I am also using MMB 6 iron. There is a 4° gap between the 6 irons and it's a nice fit.
So yes I was sucked in on the distance iron craze,,, but it wound up being a comprise in my game.
How many of you guys have gone back to old school lofts.

«1345

Comments

  • driveandputtmachinedriveandputtmachine 4 wedges or 2 iron? That is the question! Members Posts: 1,171 ✭✭
    edited Apr 25, 2019 1:31pm #2

    I was very resistant in going to the "newer" lofts. I played a set with a 48* PW forever. However I found out a few things in an iron fitting....
    1. I spin the ball entirely too much (I pretty much knew this issue because playing in the wind was the bane of my existence even though I hit the ball relatively low)
    2. I need to play with shafts that have some give in them. ie, I hit a ton of 3 fingers shots, knock-downs and such, c-tapers do not perform well for me in this way
    3. I hit the center of the face pretty well, just sometimes a groove high or a groove low (and of course a closed or open clubface)

    I learned to ignore what the bottom of the club said and was able to bend my irons to have reasonable gaps. The problem with many of the "distance" irons is that they have 5* gaps in the short irons (Gw - 8 iron), which is a huge no-no for me. So I didn't change back, I just adjusted my lofts to get my gaps reasonable. I went from 60, 56, 52, 48, 44..... To 60, 54, 50, 46, 42. Yes I have a 6* gap in between my lob wedge and my SW, but my SW is very versatile for me with 3/4, knock-down, and other partial shots so it works. My yardages are different now than they were, but the gaps of roughly 12 yards between clubs is the same. All of my clubs are roughly 6 yards longer then they used to be on a stock shot because they are 2 degrees stronger than my previous clubs.

    Post edited by driveandputtmachine on
    Driver - Ping 400 MAX on Tour 65 
    Fairway - Cobra F9 on UST Axivcore Black
    Others - Srixon 785 5 Wood on UST Axivcore Black or TM UDI 2 iron on Nippon 130 or Ping G400 17* 
    Irons - (4-A) Taylormade 790's on KBS Tour
    Wedges - Cleveland Rotex 3.0 55*, Rotex 4.0 60* on KBS tour
    Putter - Mannkrafted MA/66 or Taylormade Spider
    Ball - TM TP5x or Srixon Z Star XV
  • RayGormanRayGorman Members Posts: 137 ✭✭
    edited Apr 24, 2019 2:11pm #3

    This came up last year when I was playing with 'that guy' with the latest and greatest. We both had the same distance in- around 185-190. I played my 5I and he went with his 7. both came up to the front of the green. "Oh, yeah- these clubs are great, I hit my 7 just as far as you hit your 5 iron!". So I asked what his loft was on the 7, he said he wasn't exactly sure (he had Rogue X Irons). I kind of knew his 7 was probably closer to 26* (my 5I loft) than it was to the traditional 34*. So he was getting great distance off it. Still couldn't tell where it was going, but it went a long way whatever direction it decided to go.

  • Popeye64Popeye64 Members Posts: 910 ✭✭

    @NRJyzr said:
    I've kind of gone the other direction, though it's not a direct translation. I'd started my golf journey with what were stronger lofts at the time (46* PW), and went weaker after transitioning out of my first couple iron sets.

    The key for me was realizing the club number was irrelevant. Loft determines distance, with launch angle and spin seasoning to taste. If one were to hit a given club at the ideal launch/spin for any given ballspeed, it will be that ideal regardless of the number stamped on the bottom of the club. Why should I feel differently about that ideal due to the number stamped on the sole? ;)

    In 2018, I took the weaker lofts a bit farther, for the purposes of bag set up, and bent a set of Golden Rams to a 20* 2i and 52* PW, then to a 58* SW. Essentially 1960something lofts. Worked fairly well, I shaved a stroke off my average score for the preceding year. The only real adjustment was making sure I didn't let my ego whine too much over hitting a 9 iron where I could hit the PW of my Ram FX set. And adding a small laugh at the funny looks from a couple golf league players when they'd ask what I hit on such and such par 3. LOL

    It's all about the lofts, not the club numbers.

    Wow that's pretty extreme. Those were quite the clubs back in the day.
    For a brief moment I got caught up in the how far my 7 iron was going phase but I quickly realized it just was translating to scores. Unless I know my playing partner very well,, and his game.. I dont ever ask ' what did you hit there '...

  • Snowman9000Snowman9000 Members Posts: 1,096 ✭✭

    @Popeye64 said:
    I have been a career blade style player with pretty close to traditional lofts. I had some KBS 105s shafts in my MMBs and I just didn't like the combo. Maltby came out with the TS-2 irons and I was definitely smitten with the clubs. Feel, ease of playing and wow... did they go far. I played a full season with them and had an excellent GIR last year but wasnt so close to the hole.
    Gw was 120y. PW was 140 y, 9i was 158 y.. The issue was,,, I was having to go less than full swing on alot of holes or step on an iron to get it into a distance window. I am long enough off the tee that most of my second shots are inside 150.
    So having a set of MMB heads laying around I shafted them up with some Paderson Ts shafts. Love them by the way.
    Putting them back in play and being traditionally lofted I now am at 58° 70 Y.. 54° 95 Y.. GW 105.. PW 120.. 9 135.. 8 150.
    I have been bombing the flag again with the much tighter gaps with the irons. But I'm still using the TS-2 5 and 6 iron. But I am also using MMB 6 iron. There is a 4° gap between the 6 irons and it's a nice fit.
    So yes I was sucked in on the distance iron craze,,, but it wound up being a comprise in my game.
    How many of you guys have gone back to old school lofts.

    Very interesting review.
    Are the MMB's tighter as far as distance dispersion than the TS-2's? That's what I would expect.
    Is it a matter of spin? I would think the TS-2 would spin less, and that could result in looser distance control. Not from the standpoint of sticking near the landing spot, but from the fact that spin reduction probably makes for more variation in carry distance.

    Driver 915 D2
    5W Wilson Fybrid
    4h, 5h Adams Idea Tech 2015
    5-AW Snake Eyes Viper MS, graphite
    58º Callaway MD2 Forged S grind
    Putter TM Rossa Daytona 6
  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Members Posts: 11,854 ✭✭

    I think if people simply understood that today's 7 is the old 5 in terms of both loft and length it would be simple (and in most cases a lighter shaft)
    But, Joe avg golfer loves to yap that is 7 went 190. It's because the pro's hit the 7 iron ~ 190. Everyone wants to be Tiger or DJ or JT
    The trend I am seeing is more hybrids, then some SGI 4, 5, 6 irons and then use whatever you want from 7 to PW

    Ping G400 LST 11* Oban Revenge 65x
    Ping G400 5w 16.5* Oban Kiyoshi White 65s
    Ping G25 7w 20* Fubuki Tour 73x
    Ping G25 4h 23* Diamana White 92s
    Callaway Apex 5h 26* Mitsu KK 80s
    Ping s55 6-PW Fujikura mci 100s
    Vokey sm2 50* 54* 59* 64* DG s400 Onyx
    Piretti Matera Elite (torched)
  • PowderedToastManPowderedToastMan Members Posts: 3,801 ✭✭

    I think there are flaws in old school and new lofts. Lofts with the longer clubs have always tended to be too close together.

    I think a 22 degree 4 iron and a 48 degree PW with equal gaps in between would be the perfect set of irons (set of 7) and a nice blend of traditional and current loft setups.

    Former professional golfer. Current amateur human being. Reformed club ho.

    In the bag:

    PING. Lots of PING.
  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Allez Allez Allez Minnesota, USAMembers Posts: 6,283 ✭✭
    edited Apr 24, 2019 8:15pm #9

    @PowderedToastMan said:
    I think there are flaws in old school and new lofts. Lofts with the longer clubs have always tended to be too close together.

    It wasn't always that way. The too-small long iron loft gaps are a creation of loft creep. When lofts were bumped forward to a 50* PW and 30* 5 iron, the 2 iron stayed at 20*, creating that loft compression.

    If you think 4* is too small between long irons, then I would agree with you, though I'd suggest it might be a somewhat different discussion. ;)

    The Ever Changing Bag!

    Driver: Cobra King LTD, ProtoPype 80x or RIP 80x, 43.5" -or- SuperDeep 9.5*, ProtoPype 80x or NV85x, 43.5"
    3w: Cobra King LTD, Motore F1 85 X, 42.5"
    1 iron: Maxfli Revolution, DGS400
    2-PW, Golden Ram Tour Grind, Dynamic S
    SW: Ram Tour Grind Feel Matched 58*, DGS
    Putter: Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34.5", PP58 midsize grip
    (Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35" -or- Mizuno TPM-2, 35" as backups)
    Balls: in no particular order... Wilson Staff FG Tour, Duo Urethane, or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar/ZStar XV, Snell MTB Black... will trot out Maxfli HT-100 or Elite 90 from time to time
    Shoes by True Linkswear
  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Allez Allez Allez Minnesota, USAMembers Posts: 6,283 ✭✭

    @Popeye64 said:

    @NRJyzr said:
    I've kind of gone the other direction, though it's not a direct translation. I'd started my golf journey with what were stronger lofts at the time (46* PW), and went weaker after transitioning out of my first couple iron sets.

    The key for me was realizing the club number was irrelevant. Loft determines distance, with launch angle and spin seasoning to taste. If one were to hit a given club at the ideal launch/spin for any given ballspeed, it will be that ideal regardless of the number stamped on the bottom of the club. Why should I feel differently about that ideal due to the number stamped on the sole? ;)

    In 2018, I took the weaker lofts a bit farther, for the purposes of bag set up, and bent a set of Golden Rams to a 20* 2i and 52* PW, then to a 58* SW. Essentially 1960something lofts. Worked fairly well, I shaved a stroke off my average score for the preceding year. The only real adjustment was making sure I didn't let my ego whine too much over hitting a 9 iron where I could hit the PW of my Ram FX set. And adding a small laugh at the funny looks from a couple golf league players when they'd ask what I hit on such and such par 3. LOL

    It's all about the lofts, not the club numbers.

    Wow that's pretty extreme. Those were quite the clubs back in the day.
    For a brief moment I got caught up in the how far my 7 iron was going phase but I quickly realized it just was translating to scores. Unless I know my playing partner very well,, and his game.. I dont ever ask ' what did you hit there '...

    I don't know if I'd call those lofts extreme, but they do look that way in the modern world. The standard lofts of the 1980 Golden Rams were based on a 50* or 51* PW.

    The Ever Changing Bag!

    Driver: Cobra King LTD, ProtoPype 80x or RIP 80x, 43.5" -or- SuperDeep 9.5*, ProtoPype 80x or NV85x, 43.5"
    3w: Cobra King LTD, Motore F1 85 X, 42.5"
    1 iron: Maxfli Revolution, DGS400
    2-PW, Golden Ram Tour Grind, Dynamic S
    SW: Ram Tour Grind Feel Matched 58*, DGS
    Putter: Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34.5", PP58 midsize grip
    (Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35" -or- Mizuno TPM-2, 35" as backups)
    Balls: in no particular order... Wilson Staff FG Tour, Duo Urethane, or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar/ZStar XV, Snell MTB Black... will trot out Maxfli HT-100 or Elite 90 from time to time
    Shoes by True Linkswear
  • Popeye64Popeye64 Members Posts: 910 ✭✭

    @Snowman9000 said:

    @Popeye64 said:
    I have been a career blade style player with pretty close to traditional lofts. I had some KBS 105s shafts in my MMBs and I just didn't like the combo. Maltby came out with the TS-2 irons and I was definitely smitten with the clubs. Feel, ease of playing and wow... did they go far. I played a full season with them and had an excellent GIR last year but wasnt so close to the hole.
    Gw was 120y. PW was 140 y, 9i was 158 y.. The issue was,,, I was having to go less than full swing on alot of holes or step on an iron to get it into a distance window. I am long enough off the tee that most of my second shots are inside 150.
    So having a set of MMB heads laying around I shafted them up with some Paderson Ts shafts. Love them by the way.
    Putting them back in play and being traditionally lofted I now am at 58° 70 Y.. 54° 95 Y.. GW 105.. PW 120.. 9 135.. 8 150.
    I have been bombing the flag again with the much tighter gaps with the irons. But I'm still using the TS-2 5 and 6 iron. But I am also using MMB 6 iron. There is a 4° gap between the 6 irons and it's a nice fit.
    So yes I was sucked in on the distance iron craze,,, but it wound up being a comprise in my game.
    How many of you guys have gone back to old school lofts.

    Very interesting review.
    Are the MMB's tighter as far as distance dispersion than the TS-2's? That's what I would expect.
    Is it a matter of spin? I would think the TS-2 would spin less, and that could result in looser distance control. Not from the standpoint of sticking near the landing spot, but from the fact that spin reduction probably makes for more variation in carry distance.

    I had a year with the TS-2 clubs and first off the distance control is excellent. They have a higher COG so they launch noticeably lower and say 7 iron to 7 iron they spin less but they are also much stronger on the loft. But with that said they did stop very well on the greens. The MMB do fly higher and the angle of gecent is fairly steep. Using a Bridgestone Tour BXS the ball stops in the ball mark almost every time. They will suck back a foot or so after hoping forward. This spin back of the MMBs has been very consistent so I have been having precise distance control. With the tighter gapping I am able to take confident full swings to get my yardages. Not trying to feather a ball in or step on an iron the fill a gap. That alone has made a huge difference in scoring.
    Here is the difference in loft between the TS-2 and the MMB
    TS-2. MMB
    G 49. 51
    P 44. 47
    9 39. 43
    8 34. 39
    7 30. 35
    6 27. 31
    5 24. 27
    So you can see how the gapping of the MMB is much tighter. So of the loft gaps in the TS-2 are 5 degrees With the MMBs I find I have a few options to hit the green inside of 160 where with the TS-2 the gaps are so big that you really only have the one club option. So my carrying an MMB 6 iron and a TS-2 6 iron I have a 4 degree gap and what is essentially a 5 and 4 iron that are SGI irons. They are stupid easy to hit and very reliable. So even though they are vastly different in there build design they work very well as a combo set. My playing partner the other day said at the end of the round.... if I change the setup I have right now I would be crazy. He said i had the perfect club for every shot today.

  • FergusonFerguson Members Posts: 4,701 ✭✭

    @disco111 said:
    Being a senior, actually a super senior, I have delved into the jacked lofts equation. What I have determined is that if you don't have enough swing speed, the loft on the club is inconsequential.

    Well said.

  • No_Catchy_NicknameNo_Catchy_Nickname Kyushu,_JapanMembers Posts: 5,203 ✭✭

    @PowderedToastMan said:
    I think there are flaws in old school and new lofts. Lofts with the longer clubs have always tended to be too close together.

    I think a 22 degree 4 iron and a 48 degree PW with equal gaps in between would be the perfect set of irons (set of 7) and a nice blend of traditional and current loft setups.

    I was told there'd be no math...

    Actually, working from a 48* PW down to a 4i in equal gaps in a 7-club set gets me to a 24* 4i (that is to say 4* increments). Now that is something I basically agree with. I prefer a 4* gap between my 4 and 5 irons to a 5* gap between my 9i and PW. The 18-yard gap between 9i and PW mentioned by the OP seems way too much to me. For short irons, a 10~12 yard gap is all I want, whereas with long irons 15 yards or more is fine.

    Driver: Ping G400 Tour 65S
    4w: TaylorMade R9 stock Fujikura Motore X flex
    7w TaylorMade V-steel, Quadra Fire Express RB 6SX
    Hybrid: RomaRo iBrid 23* Attas EZ 85S
    Irons (4i-PW): Wilson fg-62 S300 4/5-PW or MP4 Yoro Modus 125X 5-PW
    Wedges: Callaway MD2 T-grind combination of 52*, 56*, 58*, 60*
    Putter: Mac Jack Nicklaus Muirfield

    Old stuff: Tons of persimmon and older irons. 
  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members Posts: 1,007 ✭✭

    @No_Catchy_Nickname with 4* gaps in the long irons do you actually see 18 yard or close distance gaps? Barring any unintentional loft adjustments via rocks and hard pan, my irons per the manufacturer have 3* between the 3 and 4 iron. When caught good the 3 is like 240 the 4 230. In practice a 3, 4 or 5 could all be "200 yard clubs" to me.

    I don't know why mfctrs don't compress the bottom end loft differences and spread the upper end. The math and physics may indicate not to do that, on course application says do it to me. Maybe we are all being sold too many clubs. I like how my bag is spaced and set up but I can go rounds upon rounds and not hit a 3w or 9i or PW. It is weird but I just don't find myself those distances very often. Or if I do, I'll smooth a club or really go at and flight a weaker club lower to get more distance and spin. Maybe lack of confidence in my 9 and PW?

  • Popeye64Popeye64 Members Posts: 910 ✭✭

    @NRJyzr said:

    @Popeye64 said:

    @NRJyzr said:
    I've kind of gone the other direction, though it's not a direct translation. I'd started my golf journey with what were stronger lofts at the time (46* PW), and went weaker after transitioning out of my first couple iron sets.

    The key for me was realizing the club number was irrelevant. Loft determines distance, with launch angle and spin seasoning to taste. If one were to hit a given club at the ideal launch/spin for any given ballspeed, it will be that ideal regardless of the number stamped on the bottom of the club. Why should I feel differently about that ideal due to the number stamped on the sole? ;)

    In 2018, I took the weaker lofts a bit farther, for the purposes of bag set up, and bent a set of Golden Rams to a 20* 2i and 52* PW, then to a 58* SW. Essentially 1960something lofts. Worked fairly well, I shaved a stroke off my average score for the preceding year. The only real adjustment was making sure I didn't let my ego whine too much over hitting a 9 iron where I could hit the PW of my Ram FX set. And adding a small laugh at the funny looks from a couple golf league players when they'd ask what I hit on such and such par 3. LOL

    It's all about the lofts, not the club numbers.

    Wow that's pretty extreme. Those were quite the clubs back in the day.
    For a brief moment I got caught up in the how far my 7 iron was going phase but I quickly realized it just was translating to scores. Unless I know my playing partner very well,, and his game.. I dont ever ask ' what did you hit there '...

    I don't know if I'd call those lofts extreme, but they do look that way in the modern world. The standard lofts of the 1980 Golden Rams were based on a 50* or 51* PW.

    Well I really m> @smashdn said:

    @No_Catchy_Nickname with 4* gaps in the long irons do you actually see 18 yard or close distance gaps? Barring any unintentional loft adjustments via rocks and hard pan, my irons per the manufacturer have 3* between the 3 and 4 iron. When caught good the 3 is like 240 the 4 230. In practice a 3, 4 or 5 could all be "200 yard clubs" to me.

    I don't know why mfctrs don't compress the bottom end loft differences and spread the upper end. The math and physics may indicate not to do that, on course application says do it to me. Maybe we are all being sold too many clubs. I like how my bag is spaced and set up but I can go rounds upon rounds and not hit a 3w or 9i or PW. It is weird but I just don't find myself those distances very often. Or if I do, I'll smooth a club or really go at and flight a weaker club lower to get more distance and spin. Maybe lack of confidence in my 9 and PW?

    Relly good point. How many times are you really 200+ out on a hole other that a par 5 or a really long par three. So closing the gaps in the G-7 iron makes a ton of sense. I actually stop my irons at the 5 which is a SGI iron and lofted like a 4 iron. So that's my 205-210 club and it's not hit that often. My 58, 54 and then my 51 GW is pretty tight on yardage gaps and that's just how I like it.

  • MaxRylie222MaxRylie222 Members Posts: 52 ✭✭

    Playing my 4th year, I used to fall for distance irons, had the m4 irons hitting 7 iron around 170-180 who’s know, but switched to ap2 718 this year and my love for distance goes out the window as the 718 has traditional loft, now hitting 7 irons around 150-155 and very happy.

  • No_Catchy_NicknameNo_Catchy_Nickname Kyushu,_JapanMembers Posts: 5,203 ✭✭

    @smashdn said:
    @No_Catchy_Nickname with 4* gaps in the long irons do you actually see 18 yard or close distance gaps? Barring any unintentional loft adjustments via rocks and hard pan, my irons per the manufacturer have 3* between the 3 and 4 iron. When caught good the 3 is like 240 the 4 230. In practice a 3, 4 or 5 could all be "200 yard clubs" to me.

    I don't know why mfctrs don't compress the bottom end loft differences and spread the upper end. The math and physics may indicate not to do that, on course application says do it to me. Maybe we are all being sold too many clubs. I like how my bag is spaced and set up but I can go rounds upon rounds and not hit a 3w or 9i or PW. It is weird but I just don't find myself those distances very often. Or if I do, I'll smooth a club or really go at and flight a weaker club lower to get more distance and spin. Maybe lack of confidence in my 9 and PW?

    To be honest, I don't have enough long iron shots to tell. At the range, I would guess I get around 10 yards difference between my 5i (27) and 4i (24), but that doesn't include any difference in roll-out. Also, that's only good strikes. I honestly do not hit my 4i well consistently. This year, I am experimenting with a 23* hybrid, dropping the 4i and playing 4 wedges (including PW), or 23* hybrid, 4i, and 3 wedges (including PW). The hybrid goes noticeably further than the 4i, but if I'm 210~230 or so yards out, I'm not so bothered about being even 10 yards long or short. I'm more worried about being 20 yards left....

    Driver: Ping G400 Tour 65S
    4w: TaylorMade R9 stock Fujikura Motore X flex
    7w TaylorMade V-steel, Quadra Fire Express RB 6SX
    Hybrid: RomaRo iBrid 23* Attas EZ 85S
    Irons (4i-PW): Wilson fg-62 S300 4/5-PW or MP4 Yoro Modus 125X 5-PW
    Wedges: Callaway MD2 T-grind combination of 52*, 56*, 58*, 60*
    Putter: Mac Jack Nicklaus Muirfield

    Old stuff: Tons of persimmon and older irons. 
  • kiwihackerkiwihacker Members Posts: 708 ✭✭

    Good thread. In so many of these discussions the stock response is "who cares what the number stamped on the bottom of the club is?" But that misses the point that the gaps are different because the number stamped on the bottom DOES MATTER. For all the jacked lofts in the long/mid/short irons and even the PW the GW and SW still seem to be sacrosanct at approx 50° and 55° respectively. So when you're starting your iron set with a 24-25° 6 iron vs an old school 4 iron you have two less clubs to get to the magic 50° GW. See below. Old school 24° would be a 4 iron, modern jacked loft a 5 iron and super jacked lofts a 25-26° 6 iron. So 5-6° gaps become necessary in the mid/short irons in order to get to a 49-50° GW.

    Old school Jacked Lofts Super Jacked
    24° 24° 25°
    27° 27° 29°
    31° 31° 34°
    35° 35° 39°
    39° 40° 44°
    43° 45° 50°
    47° 50° 55°
    51° 55°
    56°

    So whilst it may feel great to be nailing that 29° 7 iron as far as your buddy is hitting his old school 5 iron how is the gapping in the scoring clubs 7-GW?

    Cobra King F6 Driver 10.5°
    17° Callaway X Hot 4 wood
    20.5°& 23° Cleveland DST Launcher hybrids
    Taylormade R7 TP 5-PW irons
    Cleveland RTX 2 5O°, 54°, Callaway MD Forged 58°
    Ping Anser Sigma 2 putter
  • LaymanMLaymanM Cincinnati, OHMembers Posts: 2,123 ✭✭

    Hmm have no gap issues with my G410 irons. They are about 10 yards evenly spaced through my set. With saying that, I wouldn't play a set that didn't gap out correctly. I've also shot par twice with G410 which is a first for this 7 handicap so there is that too!

    PING G410 9* PX Evenflow Black 75 6.0
    PING G410 LST 3w PX Evenflow Black 85 6.0
    PING G410 5w PX Evenflow Black 85 6.0
    PING G410 4-PW AWT 2 0 stiff
    PING Stealth Glide 2.0 50ss/54ss/58ss
    PING Sigam G Tyne
  • mantanmantan Members Posts: 2,519 ✭✭

    @kiwihacker said:
    Good thread. In so many of these discussions the stock response is "who cares what the number stamped on the bottom of the club is?" But that misses the point that the gaps are different because the number stamped on the bottom DOES MATTER. For all the jacked lofts in the long/mid/short irons and even the PW the GW and SW still seem to be sacrosanct at approx 50° and 55° respectively. So when you're starting your iron set with a 24-25° 6 iron vs an old school 4 iron you have two less clubs to get to the magic 50° GW. See below. Old school 24° would be a 4 iron, modern jacked loft a 5 iron and super jacked lofts a 25-26° 6 iron. So 5-6° gaps become necessary in the mid/short irons in order to get to a 49-50° GW.

    Old school Jacked Lofts Super Jacked
    24° 24° 25°
    27° 27° 29°
    31° 31° 34°
    35° 35° 39°
    39° 40° 44°
    43° 45° 50°
    47° 50° 55°
    51° 55°
    56°

    So whilst it may feel great to be nailing that 29° 7 iron as far as your buddy is hitting his old school 5 iron how is the gapping in the scoring clubs 7-GW?

    The question should be 'who cares' but as long as the male ego is the male ego, guys will want to hit a specific club longer than their buddy. It's stupid, but it's ingrained. Just like they make a big deal of what club a pro hits on a certain shot. At that level they are all going to hit highly compressed shots and control their trajectory and spin. So whether DJ hits a PW or 7-iron, it's irrelavant. But the announcers and fans get a boner when DJ hits a 160 yard PW...and they want to do it to.

    Lofts are so over the board, that I don't even bother asking what somebody is hitting. (Non-competitive round, of course) I just ask them what distance are they playing it at and use that data accordingly. I have a buddy who LOVES his new G700s. He's nuking his PW, but his scoring is suffering because he's lost his touch inside 140 yards.

    WITB (as of 3/28/19)
    PING G400 Max 10.5*
    PING G400 5-Wood
    PING G25 20* Hybrid
    PING G25 23* Hybrid
    Srixon Z565 5-AW
    PING Stealth ES Glide 54*
    PING Glide ES 58*
    PING Sigma 2 Fetch
    Callaway Chrome Soft TruVis
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members Posts: 3,436 ✭✭

    @kiwihacker said:
    Good thread. In so many of these discussions the stock response is "who cares what the number stamped on the bottom of the club is?" But that misses the point that the gaps are different because the number stamped on the bottom DOES MATTER. For all the jacked lofts in the long/mid/short irons and even the PW the GW and SW still seem to be sacrosanct at approx 50° and 55° respectively. So when you're starting your iron set with a 24-25° 6 iron vs an old school 4 iron you have two less clubs to get to the magic 50° GW. See below. Old school 24° would be a 4 iron, modern jacked loft a 5 iron and super jacked lofts a 25-26° 6 iron. So 5-6° gaps become necessary in the mid/short irons in order to get to a 49-50° GW.

    Old school Jacked Lofts Super Jacked
    24° 24° 25°
    27° 27° 29°
    31° 31° 34°
    35° 35° 39°
    39° 40° 44°
    43° 45° 50°
    47° 50° 55°
    51° 55°
    56°

    So whilst it may feel great to be nailing that 29° 7 iron as far as your buddy is hitting his old school 5 iron how is the gapping in the scoring clubs 7-GW?

    To someone without club head speed, more irons lower is much better. To someone with speed to spare, tighter yardages up top is better.

    As always, its good to have both options and is dependent on the golfer. Try watching someone who swings a 7 iron 70 mph try to get a 24* 4 iron to gap well with a 21* 3 iron. Nuts.

    So, as usual, both sides are wrong. Some players want A, some want B. Trying to say "A is better than B" is impossible in golf. Jacked lofts are not just for ego. They are also for guys who can't get the ball off the ground without them.

    Ping G30 10.5* 14.5* 17* TFC-419 stiff
    Bridgestone j40 3-PW 52* 57* DG s300
    Scotty Cameron Big Sur s 34"
  • NC_IndyNC_Indy Noblesville, INMembers Posts: 8 ✭✭

    Aren't most people ignoring the reason for the strong lofts? The manufacturers were able to get a 30.5 degree 7 iron to fly as high as a 36 degree seven iron and that continues down the bag. If they're going the same height but you're gaining yardage it's generally speaking a net positive for consumers. When you gain distance your gaps will naturally increase, that's not an inherent problem from the strong lofts but rather the distance as you just have the same amount of clubs to hit over more distance. That's for the consumer to decide if they want further distance but further gaps (15-20 yds) or less distance but tighter gaps (10-12 yds). A pros gaps are 15-20 yards, that's just what happens when you hit a 4i 245 yards. Is it better for the consumer to be able to hit a four iron that still goes into the air 220 yards but be in between clubs more often from 140-190 or hit a four iron 200 yards but always be able to fit a full club just being 5 yards to long or 5 yards to short? As a personal anecdote, I was playing very traditional loft mp-57s (36 degree seven iron loft). My seven iron only went 155 yards. Gaining 20 yards per club, flying the same height or higher, and going from 7700 spin to 6300 spin was a great trade-off for my my game. If I had a better swing and was hitting that same seven iron 165-170 I wouldn't have considered the new clubs.

  • RainShadowRainShadow Tucson AZ (for now)Members Posts: 3,684 ✭✭

    My Problem with these " Players Distance" irons is the lack of spin.
    When I can't hold stop a ball within 15ft or so with a 7 iron it's not working for me.
    I've tried the '14 Apex ( Best of the bunch), Rogue Pro ( good feel, not enough spin for me) and a few others.
    Currently playing Cobra Forged Tec Black. These and the 919 Forged had 6800-7100 RPM with roughly the close to the same loft in the 7 iron ( Miz 32*, FTB 30*) With Modus 105 stiff

    Ping G400 10.5 Hzrdus Yellow 75 6.0
    Rogue 17* Atmos Blue TS
    G 410 19* Tour 85 R
    Apex  23 & 26 Kuro Kage S
    Cobra Forged Tec Black 6-GW Modus 105s (In Play) / Srixon Z765 6-GW Modus 105s (Standing By)
    MackDaddy4 Black 54 S and RTX 3 Raw 58* 
     Bettinardi '16 BB1 / '16 Bettinardi Tiki /  '17 Studio Stock 8
    Chrome Soft / TP5/ Wilson Staff FG Tour
  • B-NadsB-Nads Members Posts: 320 ✭✭

    @Ferguson said:

    @disco111 said:
    Being a senior, actually a super senior, I have delved into the jacked lofts equation. What I have determined is that if you don't have enough swing speed, the loft on the club is inconsequential.

    Well said.

    Yup. Low loft and low swing speed are bad bedfellows.
    Personally, I like when my 7 iron goes the same length every time...I'll happily call it the 160 iron if that's what they want to stamp on the bottom of it - as long as it doesn't go 150 or 170 ;-).

    Driver - Cobra F8+
    3 wood - Callaway Epic SZ
    7 wood - Cobra F7
    Irons - TM P770 4-PW
    Wedges - Mizuno T7 52/58
    Putter - Scotty Studio Select Squareback #1
  • kiwihackerkiwihacker Members Posts: 708 ✭✭

    @pinestreetgolf said:

    @kiwihacker said:
    Good thread. In so many of these discussions the stock response is "who cares what the number stamped on the bottom of the club is?" But that misses the point that the gaps are different because the number stamped on the bottom DOES MATTER. For all the jacked lofts in the long/mid/short irons and even the PW the GW and SW still seem to be sacrosanct at approx 50° and 55° respectively. So when you're starting your iron set with a 24-25° 6 iron vs an old school 4 iron you have two less clubs to get to the magic 50° GW. See below. Old school 24° would be a 4 iron, modern jacked loft a 5 iron and super jacked lofts a 25-26° 6 iron. So 5-6° gaps become necessary in the mid/short irons in order to get to a 49-50° GW.

    Old school Jacked Lofts Super Jacked
    24° 24° 25°
    27° 27° 29°
    31° 31° 34°
    35° 35° 39°
    39° 40° 44°
    43° 45° 50°
    47° 50° 55°
    51° 55°
    56°

    So whilst it may feel great to be nailing that 29° 7 iron as far as your buddy is hitting his old school 5 iron how is the gapping in the scoring clubs 7-GW?

    To someone without club head speed, more irons lower is much better. To someone with speed to spare, tighter yardages up top is better.

    As always, its good to have both options and is dependent on the golfer. Try watching someone who swings a 7 iron 70 mph try to get a 24* 4 iron to gap well with a 21* 3 iron. Nuts.

    So, as usual, both sides are wrong. Some players want A, some want B. Trying to say "A is better than B" is impossible in golf. Jacked lofts are not just for ego. They are also for guys who can't get the ball off the ground without them.

    Not sure I understand? Jacked lofts are for guys who can't get the ball off the ground without them? So ... lower lofts help them get the ball off the ground?

    But the slower swing speed player benefits from bigger gaps in lofts between clubs? I can understand that because 4° gaps may mean he's hitting two clubs a pretty similar distance.

    Regarding your 21° 3 iron gapping vs 24° 4 iron that is the reason most of us switched to hybrids about 15 years ago. Many still carry a 4 iron but with the new stronger lofts many are starting instead with a 5 iron or 6 iron.

    Cobra King F6 Driver 10.5°
    17° Callaway X Hot 4 wood
    20.5°& 23° Cleveland DST Launcher hybrids
    Taylormade R7 TP 5-PW irons
    Cleveland RTX 2 5O°, 54°, Callaway MD Forged 58°
    Ping Anser Sigma 2 putter
  • kiwihackerkiwihacker Members Posts: 708 ✭✭
    edited Apr 26, 2019 6:44pm #28

    @LaymanM said:
    Hmm have no gap issues with my G410 irons. They are about 10 yards evenly spaced through my set. With saying that, I wouldn't play a set that didn't gap out correctly. I've also shot par twice with G410 which is a first for this 7 handicap so there is that too!

    Nice work. Maybe I'm reading to much into these strong lofts and should trust the manufacturers know what they're doing. :) Looking at the G410 lofts I like how getting from the longest iron, say 23-25°, to the GW at approx 50° takes only 6 irons whereas more traditionally lofted irons with 3° and 4° gaps takes 7 irons. With the extra slot there's room for that extra wedge I've always struggled to fit in.

    Cobra King F6 Driver 10.5°
    17° Callaway X Hot 4 wood
    20.5°& 23° Cleveland DST Launcher hybrids
    Taylormade R7 TP 5-PW irons
    Cleveland RTX 2 5O°, 54°, Callaway MD Forged 58°
    Ping Anser Sigma 2 putter
  • nostaticnostatic "i drank what?!?" Socrates lost angelesClubWRX Posts: 195 ClubWRX

    @kiwihacker said:

    @pinestreetgolf said:

    @kiwihacker said:
    Good thread. In so many of these discussions the stock response is "who cares what the number stamped on the bottom of the club is?" But that misses the point that the gaps are different because the number stamped on the bottom DOES MATTER. For all the jacked lofts in the long/mid/short irons and even the PW the GW and SW still seem to be sacrosanct at approx 50° and 55° respectively. So when you're starting your iron set with a 24-25° 6 iron vs an old school 4 iron you have two less clubs to get to the magic 50° GW. See below. Old school 24° would be a 4 iron, modern jacked loft a 5 iron and super jacked lofts a 25-26° 6 iron. So 5-6° gaps become necessary in the mid/short irons in order to get to a 49-50° GW.

    Old school Jacked Lofts Super Jacked
    24° 24° 25°
    27° 27° 29°
    31° 31° 34°
    35° 35° 39°
    39° 40° 44°
    43° 45° 50°
    47° 50° 55°
    51° 55°
    56°

    So whilst it may feel great to be nailing that 29° 7 iron as far as your buddy is hitting his old school 5 iron how is the gapping in the scoring clubs 7-GW?

    To someone without club head speed, more irons lower is much better. To someone with speed to spare, tighter yardages up top is better.

    As always, its good to have both options and is dependent on the golfer. Try watching someone who swings a 7 iron 70 mph try to get a 24* 4 iron to gap well with a 21* 3 iron. Nuts.

    So, as usual, both sides are wrong. Some players want A, some want B. Trying to say "A is better than B" is impossible in golf. Jacked lofts are not just for ego. They are also for guys who can't get the ball off the ground without them.

    Not sure I understand? Jacked lofts are for guys who can't get the ball off the ground without them? So ... lower lofts help them get the ball off the ground?

    But the slower swing speed player benefits from bigger gaps in lofts between clubs? I can understand that because 4° gaps may mean he's hitting two clubs a pretty similar distance.

    Regarding your 21° 3 iron gapping vs 24° 4 iron that is the reason most of us switched to hybrids about 15 years ago. Many still carry a 4 iron but with the new stronger lofts many are starting instead with a 5 iron or 6 iron.

    I believe the reasoning is that the "distance" clubs have a hotter face which gives greater ball speed for a given swing. That helps launch it higher and descend more steeply, which can help offset less spin.

    Essentially everything moved to the left (or right depending on your perspective). Whether or not a set gaps is totally depending on the individual. The 4* between clubs model works for some, not for others. And when it gets into wedges I'm more interested in grind differences than perfect distance gapping as I'm fairly comfortable hitting partial swing shots. No single right answer.

    Ping G400Max 10.5 XTorsion S - Cobra F9 3W 16 Devo7 S - F9 3H Devo8 S 
    Mizuno 919 Hot Metal Pro 4-PW - 919F GW - S18 55/09 PX LZ Tour 6.0 - Ping Glide2.0 Stealth 58TS
    Odyssey StrokeLab Double Wide Flow
  • nandersennandersen Boston, MAClubWRX Posts: 158 ClubWRX

    @NC_Indy said:
    Aren't most people ignoring the reason for the strong lofts? The manufacturers were able to get a 30.5 degree 7 iron to fly as high as a 36 degree seven iron and that continues down the bag. If they're going the same height but you're gaining yardage it's generally speaking a net positive for consumers. When you gain distance your gaps will naturally increase, that's not an inherent problem from the strong lofts but rather the distance as you just have the same amount of clubs to hit over more distance. That's for the consumer to decide if they want further distance but further gaps (15-20 yds) or less distance but tighter gaps (10-12 yds). A pros gaps are 15-20 yards, that's just what happens when you hit a 4i 245 yards. Is it better for the consumer to be able to hit a four iron that still goes into the air 220 yards but be in between clubs more often from 140-190 or hit a four iron 200 yards but always be able to fit a full club just being 5 yards to long or 5 yards to short? As a personal anecdote, I was playing very traditional loft mp-57s (36 degree seven iron loft). My seven iron only went 155 yards. Gaining 20 yards per club, flying the same height or higher, and going from 7700 spin to 6300 spin was a great trade-off for my my game. If I had a better swing and was hitting that same seven iron 165-170 I wouldn't have considered the new clubs.

    This point is often missed and understated.

    1W: Callaway BB 816 (9.0)- HZRDUS Yellow 6.5
    3W: Taylormade M2 Tour (15) - Fujikura Pro 73x
    HW: Callaway GBB Heavenwood- HZRDUS Yellow 6.0
    1-PW: Miura Baby Blades - TT Prototype Monaco X100 +0.75"
    51-9: Miura 1957 Y-Wedge
    54-10, 60-08: SM5 Vokey M-Grind
    Odyssey O-Works 7
  • Popeye64Popeye64 Members Posts: 910 ✭✭

    @LaymanM said:
    Hmm have no gap issues with my G410 irons. They are about 10 yards evenly spaced through my set. With saying that, I wouldn't play a set that didn't gap out correctly. I've also shot par twice with G410 which is a first for this 7 handicap so there is that too!

    Well then your set is just about perfect for you. 10 yard gaps are great

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