Nicklaus, Woods or Hogan? An extremely 'scientific' look at who had golf's most impressive comeback.

dropkickeddropkicked TorontoMembers Posts: 493 ✭✭

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/tiger-woods-jack-nicklaus-or-ben-hogan-an-extremely-scientific-look-at-who-had-golfs-most-impressive-comeback
Nicklaus, Woods or Hogan? An extremely 'scientific' look at who had golf's most impressive comeback
It would be irresponsible to try to compare one improbable comeback to another. We did so anyway

-Shane Ryan

Tiger Woods' comeback last year was the talk of the golf world, and deservedly so, but in our secret hearts, we all knew it wouldn't be complete without another major. That last peak still seemed far off in the misty distance, even though he was routinely competing well against the best players in the world, but at Augusta National, he reached the mountaintop yet again.

Taken in total, it's certainly the greatest sports comeback of the year, and the decade, and possibly of my sports lifetime. But is it the greatest in the history of golf?

To answer that question, we have to compare him to the only other two men worthy of the distinction: Jack Nicklaus and Ben Hogan. And we just treat the question with care—it's not something to be tossed in the chaotic washing machine of loose opinion and removed sopping wet one hour later only to realize we forgot the bleach of cold hard logic and the stain remover of rigorous scientific examination. This puzzle must be hand-washed, air-dried and finally steam-pressed until it gleams with truth.

You get the picture.

So, using eight categories, let's assign each man a score from 1-3 in each, and at the end we'll tally it up and declare a winner. That's just good science.

..........
Results Below
..........
**FINAL SCORES

It was an intense battle, but here's how it scored out in the end:

Tiger Woods: 17 points

Jack Nicklaus: 16 points

Ben Hogan: 15 points

There you have it! Science has proved, once and for all, that Tiger's comeback was the greatest in golf history, and science has never been wrong.**

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Comments

  • wildcatdenwildcatden China Cat Sunflower Members Posts: 868 ✭✭

    If Danny Willet wins the Masters in 2020, does he get 18 points?

  • puttingmattputtingmatt puttingmatt Members Posts: 5,082 ✭✭

    Extremely Scientific ? Lol's



    Play Golf.....Play Blades......Play Something Else.....Just Go Play.....
  • LlortamaiseyLlortamaisey Members Posts: 5,895 ✭✭

    Wait... are the points like golf, fewer is better?

  • CwingCwing Members Posts: 8,047 ✭✭
    edited Apr 25, 2019 12:39am #5

    Jack’s comeback? Hogan and Woods came back from injury? Did Jack have a similar issue? Honest question as I don’t know what issue Jack came back from.

    Post edited by Cwing on
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  • legitimategolflegitimategolf Golf hard New York NYMembers Posts: 4,627 ✭✭
    edited Apr 25, 2019 12:28am #7

    @Cwing said:
    Jack’s comeback? Hogan and Woods came back from injury? Did Jack have a similar issue? Honest question as I don’t know what issue Mack came back from.

    Don't matter. Shane Ryan is a bell end.

  • halliedoghalliedog Members Posts: 2,347 ✭✭

    Tiger's "comeback" was partially due to injury, but mostly due to self inflicted "mental depths". Also, his "comeback" was aided by 4 of the top 20 in the world rinsing balls on 12 through 15. Make it 5 if you count DJ, but he was just too far back to start, but finished with birdies on 4 of last 5 to come up one short. If he makes one more birdie Sunday (or any day I guess), or Brooks makes his 8 footer for birdie on 18 it's an entirely different scenario? Do we all agree it would've been much more interesting if Tiger had to make par on 18 instead of having a stroke to play with?

    Hogan's "comeback" was from his body being totally mangled by a city bus. In my view of "comebacks", this might rank highest in my opinion? I'm still not sure on this one. In my opinion a "comeback" is someone who has been great, then has a near career ending injury, then comes back to be good for a long time. Hogan was a little before my time, so not sure how long he was good after the accident.

    Nicklaus' win in '86 was sheer determination, shooting lights out on the back 9 on Sunday, and a few guys spitting the bit once he posted that number they knew they had to beat. I don't count that as a "comeback", but more as a guy who knew the course like the back of his hand and caught lightening in a bottle that Sunday, had a number in mind that might put a lump in other people's throats (Seve, Norman, Kite) and shot it. I'm not calling that a "comeback", just something really rare and special. If Watson would've 2 putted (basically) on 18 at Turnberry in '09 would we be calling that a "comeback"?

    My opinion, Hogan was the greatest physical comeback, Jack was a guy who had one last thing to prove and willed it to be so, Tiger is still in somewhat good form and needed A LOT of help to win, so I personally don't count this a "Great Comeback". Not trying to start an anti-Tiger debate, but willing to have intelligent discussion about it?

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  • CwingCwing Members Posts: 8,047 ✭✭

    Interesting stuff. I don’t think Jack is in this conversation at all as there really was no comeback.
    Also interesting was Hogan. Sounds , like some broken bones and a fairly long recovery period but were his injuries really ever career threatening?
    Tiger, state of the art medical care but pretty new stuff at this point.

    .

    TaylorMade Kingdom M4 9.5* Red 5S stiff Atmos
    TaylorMade M4 3HL 16.5* fairway stiff Atmos
    TaylorMade M4 3 hybrid stiff Atmos
    TaylorMade M4 4 hybrid stiff Atmos
    PING G25 5-U (coming soon = G410)
    Cleveland RTX 54*
    TaylorMade Hi Toe 58*
    Seemore si5
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    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/838786-cwings-witb-2013/
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,802 ✭✭

    @legitimategolf said:
    Shane Ryan's last big piece.

    @legitimategolf said:
    Shane Ryan's last big piece.

    Yep. That guy ..... looks like he will profit off of it any direction he can.

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  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Posts: 17,676 ClubWRX

    Sorry, saw Shane Ryan and that was enough.

    And really, Nicklaus isn't part of that kind of a comeback conversation at all which speaks to Ryan's usual ability to get it wrong.

  • tatertottatertot Members Posts: 4,378 ✭✭

    I'm a big Jack fan ... But he don't belong in this conversation.

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  • Darth PutterDarth Putter Members Posts: 4,755 ✭✭

    Shane Ryan?

    The slack jawed yokel that was hoping Tiger's comeback failed?

    Article from January 2018

    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/tiger-fatigue-syndrome-or-why-i-want-the-tiger-woods-comeback-to-fail-shane-ryan

    How is he even allowed to still comment on the game? I'd rather hear from Skip Bayless at this point.

    swing is irrelevant, score is everything

    just say NO.... to practice swings
  • KevinnzKevinnz Members Posts: 183 ✭✭

    Tiger's come back is a total blow to the current golf teaching professionals out there, so called scientific approach to the golf swing. These stack and tilt, bump to the left before turning theories have caused god knows how many lower back injuries.
    Glad tiger made it back with a more traditional swing. Good on him

  • halliedoghalliedog Members Posts: 2,347 ✭✭
    edited Apr 25, 2019 3:12am #18

    Glad no one has attacked me for not being on the Tiger bandwagon. Let's keep this civil, and I'll add/ask another question - What is your definition of a "comeback"? Different things to different people. Maybe I should start another thread, but there's already so many it seems pointless?

    I'll start it off. My definition of "comeback" is reaching greatness, then suffering some type of accident/career ending injury, then WORKING your way back against all odds, and becoming great again. None of these guys meet that to me (Tiger to be determined). Hogan won another major or 2 after being run over by a bus, so give him the nod in this one.

    Greatest "Sports" comebacks? How about Reggie Miller scoring 8 points in 9 seconds? How about the Cavs coming back from 1-3 against the defending NBA Champs? How about the Indians losing a World Series THE SAME YEAR that THEY held a 3-1 lead? (I'm an Indians fan, and will forever **** about the rain delay. but have to give it up to the Cubs for persevering).

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  • halliedoghalliedog Members Posts: 2,347 ✭✭

    Assume you are speaking to Tiger? Was it injuries that started the decline, or his lack of playing for nearly 5 years due to "personal issues"? Everyone gets a trophy in your world I guess.

    Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I never see him dropping below 656 in OWGR? http://www.owgr.com/en/Ranking/PlayerProfile.aspx?playerID=5321

    When was he ranked 1199, and what ranking was that? He ended 2018 at #13, hardly a long-shot to win. What were his Vegas odds to win starting Sunday playing in the next to last group? (3-1) Hardly a long shot or surprise. And I'll respectfully disagree that the start of his downfall was physical instead of mental, but that made a convenient excuse for him didn't it?

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  • halliedoghalliedog Members Posts: 2,347 ✭✭

    @Hawkeye77 said:

    @halliedog said:
    Assume you are speaking to Tiger? Was it injuries that started the decline, or his lack of playing for nearly 5 years due to "personal issues"? Everyone gets a trophy in your world I guess.

    Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I never see him dropping below 656 in OWGR? http://www.owgr.com/en/Ranking/PlayerProfile.aspx?playerID=5321

    When was he ranked 1199, and what ranking was that? He ended 2018 at #13, hardly a long-shot to win. What were his Vegas odds to win starting Sunday playing in the next to last group? (3-1) Hardly a long shot or surprise. And I'll respectfully disagree that the start of his downfall was physical instead of mental, but that made a convenient excuse for him didn't it?

    He was 1199 in November of 2017.

    Point taken, can you provide a link for educational purposes so I don't stick my foot in my mouth in the future?

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  • redfirebird08redfirebird08 Members Posts: 7,916 ✭✭
    edited Apr 25, 2019 4:15am #23

    @halliedog said:
    Assume you are speaking to Tiger? Was it injuries that started the decline, or his lack of playing for nearly 5 years due to "personal issues"? Everyone gets a trophy in your world I guess.

    Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I never see him dropping below 656 in OWGR? http://www.owgr.com/en/Ranking/PlayerProfile.aspx?playerID=5321

    When was he ranked 1199, and what ranking was that? He ended 2018 at #13, hardly a long-shot to win. What were his Vegas odds to win starting Sunday playing in t he next to last group? (3-1) Hardly a long shot or surprise. And I'll respectfully disagree that the start of his downfall was physical instead of mental, but that made a convenient excuse for him didn't it?

    He did not sit out for 5 years due to "personal issues." These are the facts, no matter how you want to spin it...

    He won 6 times in 2009. The adultery scandal in the media happened in late 2009 to early 2010. He played plenty of golf in 2010 and 2011, but didn't win. Had some high finishes in 2010 such as 4th at the Masters and Top 10 at the U.S. Open. Made a pretty good run at The Masters in 2011 but faded on the back nine Sunday.

    He started winning again in December 2011 with his unofficial charity tournament. Then he won 3 times in 2012 (including Jack/Arnold events) and 5 victories in 2013, including The Players Championship and 2 WGC events. In August 2013, he won the WGC Bridgestone event by 7 shots. He was by far the #1 ranked player in summer 2013.

    http://dps.endavadigital.net/owgr/doc/content/archive/2013/owgr35f2013.pdf

    Then the back injuries started. He had 4 back surgeries from 2014 to 2017. As a result of barely playing any golf due to the back injuries, he dropped down from #1 in summer 2013 to #1,199 in Fall 2017. Finally was healthy enough to play in 2018 and 2019. Had a lot of good finishes in 2018 (including a victory in September) which pushed him up to the #13 ranking at the end of the year that you mentioned.

    Post edited by redfirebird08 on
  • cdnglfcdnglf Members Posts: 3,168 ✭✭

    @Hawkeye77 said:

    @halliedog said:
    Assume you are speaking to Tiger? Was it injuries that started the decline, or his lack of playing for nearly 5 years due to "personal issues"? Everyone gets a trophy in your world I guess.

    Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I never see him dropping below 656 in OWGR? http://www.owgr.com/en/Ranking/PlayerProfile.aspx?playerID=5321

    When was he ranked 1199, and what ranking was that? He ended 2018 at #13, hardly a long-shot to win. What were his Vegas odds to win starting Sunday playing in the next to last group? (3-1) Hardly a long shot or surprise. And I'll respectfully disagree that the start of his downfall was physical instead of mental, but that made a convenient excuse for him didn't it?

    He was 1199 in November of 2017.

    And battled back 500 spots in a single week, thanks to an invite he gave himself to the Charity OWGR Points for Tiger Challenge. Talk about overcoming adversity!

  • redfirebird08redfirebird08 Members Posts: 7,916 ✭✭
    edited Apr 25, 2019 4:21am #25

    @cdnglf said:

    @Hawkeye77 said:

    @halliedog said:
    Assume you are speaking to Tiger? Was it injuries that started the decline, or his lack of playing for nearly 5 years due to "personal issues"? Everyone gets a trophy in your world I guess.

    Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I never see him dropping below 656 in OWGR? http://www.owgr.com/en/Ranking/PlayerProfile.aspx?playerID=5321

    When was he ranked 1199, and what ranking was that? He ended 2018 at #13, hardly a long-shot to win. What were his Vegas odds to win starting Sunday playing in the next to last group? (3-1) Hardly a long shot or surprise. And I'll respectfully disagree that the start of his downfall was physical instead of mental, but that made a convenient excuse for him didn't it?

    He was 1199 in November of 2017.

    And battled back 500 spots in a single week, thanks to an invite he gave himself to the Charity OWGR Points for Tiger Challenge. Talk about overcoming adversity!

    While I agree it's a very silly event and should not have any ranking points, I'm also quite sure that this December 2017 event had zero to do with him winning The 2018 Tour Championship or The 2019 Masters. He is a lifetime member of the Tour and earned his way into the Tour Championship with his performances in numerous 2018 full field events on the Tour. He's got an invitation to Augusta until age 60+ as well.

  • cdnglfcdnglf Members Posts: 3,168 ✭✭

    @redfirebird08 said:

    @cdnglf said:

    @Hawkeye77 said:

    @halliedog said:
    Assume you are speaking to Tiger? Was it injuries that started the decline, or his lack of playing for nearly 5 years due to "personal issues"? Everyone gets a trophy in your world I guess.

    Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I never see him dropping below 656 in OWGR? http://www.owgr.com/en/Ranking/PlayerProfile.aspx?playerID=5321

    When was he ranked 1199, and what ranking was that? He ended 2018 at #13, hardly a long-shot to win. What were his Vegas odds to win starting Sunday playing in the next to last group? (3-1) Hardly a long shot or surprise. And I'll respectfully disagree that the start of his downfall was physical instead of mental, but that made a convenient excuse for him didn't it?

    He was 1199 in November of 2017.

    And battled back 500 spots in a single week, thanks to an invite he gave himself to the Charity OWGR Points for Tiger Challenge. Talk about overcoming adversity!

    While I agree it's a very silly event and should not have any ranking points, I'm also quite sure that this December 2017 event had zero to do with him winning The 2018 Tour Championship or The 2019 Masters. He is a lifetime member of the Tour and earned his way into the Tour Championship with his performances in numerous 2018 full field events on the Tour. He's got an invitation to Augusta until age 60+ as well.

    I know. Just can’t help myself when it comes to the Hypocrite World Challenge.

  • redfirebird08redfirebird08 Members Posts: 7,916 ✭✭

    @cdnglf said:
    Just can’t help myself when it comes to the Hypocrite World Challenge.

    It's a ridiculous event in the rankings for sure. Wish they would get rid of the points for it.

  • halliedoghalliedog Members Posts: 2,347 ✭✭

    I'm not doubting his rank of 1199, but can someone provide the link so I know where to look in the future?

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  • Mr. HoganMr. Hogan Members Posts: 1,342 ✭✭

    Laughing out loud at Shane Ryan.

    USGA - Unusually Stupid Governance Association
  • redfirebird08redfirebird08 Members Posts: 7,916 ✭✭
    edited Apr 25, 2019 6:46am #30

    @halliedog said:
    I'm not doubting his rank of 1199, but can someone provide the link so I know where to look in the future?

    Below is an article from 11/27/2017. You won't be able to find him at 1199 on the OWGR website because their archives only show the Top 300 players for any given week in past years. Do a Google search for "Tiger Woods 1199" and you will find a ton of articles that mention it.

    http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/21494172/golf-tiger-woods-remains-exempt-many-events-play-anywhere-wants

    "While everyone else in the 18-player field will be ranked among the top 50 in the world, Woods (ranked 1,199th) will be making his first tournament start since withdrawing from the Dubai Desert Classic prior to the second round on Feb. 3. Since then, he underwent his fourth back surgery. Stalled on 79 PGA Tour titles since 2013, Woods, 41, has made just 19 worldwide starts since the first of his back surgeries on March 31, 2014."

    Below is another article from 12/3/2017. He jumped more than 500 spots in the ranking based on the 18-man unofficial event. Total joke of a tournament that should not give out ranking points.

    https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/tiger-woods-moves-up-more-than-500-spots-in-official-world-golf-rankings/

    "As somebody pointed out to me earlier this week, Tiger Woods' Official World Golf Ranking coming into the Hero World Golf Challenge (1,199) was closer to Steph Curry's (1,928) than it was to Dustin Johnson's (No. 1). That changed on Sunday when Woods finished T9 with Matt Kuchar in the Bahamas. As a result, Woods will move to around No. 659 in the world."

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