Before I go mad.... In to out

I've been trying for over a year to stop coming out to in and get in to out. I've tried everything like swinging right, aiming left then firing right etc. I can get it with no ball down but main swing is over the top. Only thing I can see which might help is trying to keep my right shoulder behind me on the downswing. Would this work?

Fix the reason you can’t do it as opposed to forcing it

I've had several lessons and get it on the lesson. Take me to the course and it goes in an instant.

> @iteachgolf said:

> Fix the reason you can’t do it as opposed to forcing it

I'd like to know a better setup tendency to promote in to out, if you could suggest one. I've played with an open stance and that helps with the driver, although not so much w irons. And driver I suspect I'm doing something else to catch up.

Question I guess is what setup and first move makes in to out w irons more likely.

And why do so many pros divots point left?

> @Justsomeguy said:

> > @iteachgolf said:

> > Fix the reason you can’t do it as opposed to forcing it

>

> I'd like to know a better setup tendency to promote in to out, if you could suggest one. I've played with an open stance and that helps with the driver, although not so much w irons. And driver I suspect I'm doing something else to catch up.

> Question I guess is what setup and first move makes in to out w irons more likely.

> And why do so many pros divots point left?

Their divots point left because that’s where they’ll point if you want to hit a straightish shot that ends up on target. I hit push draws with a divot that always points left.

There’s some setup changes that would promote a more right path but I’m hesitant to say them as that could cause more issues than it helps. Like I said fix the problem you have. There isn’t a one size fits all cure all answer

> @"Saintee Davie" said:

> I've had several lessons and get it on the lesson. Take me to the course and it goes in an instant.

It takes a lot of focused practice off the lesson tee to learn a new pattern/move. I took a few lessons a few years ago and had the same issue. I could use the feels the instructor was asking and get the desired outcome, but it rarely translated much further than that. Now when I take lessons now I am now less concerned with the outcome of shots (although they are very good feedback) and more concerned with diagnosing what is the root cause and what is the solution.

Sounds to me like you are too focused on hitting the ball. Focus on swinging to the target--so the ball just gets in the way of the swing--as opposed to hitting the ball. If the ball is your mental target (focus of your attention), then out-to-in is the most effective way to accomplish that. Check out Shawn Clement's Youtube channel regarding OTT. Here is one video to get you started:

Turn your back to the target. Point your chest 180 degrees from the target (let your hips rotate a bit). No way in hell you can come out to in if you do that.

> @andrue said:

> Turn your back to the target. Point your chest 180 degrees from the target (let your hips rotate a bit). No way in **** you can come out to in if you do that.

Oh how many people wish that was true. If you don't properly rotate everything in sequence in the downswing , you can do a massive OTT pull hook or slice from that position.

Check your alignment: If you are aligned properly, parallel left of the target, an inside attack on the ball is almost automatic if you are hitting the ball at the target. Conversely, if you get shut at address, body lines pointing to the target, or even right of target you almost have to come over the top to start the ball at the target. When my swing gets off the first thing I check is alignment. 90% of the time that's where the problem lies.

Steve

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> > @andrue said:

> > Turn your back to the target. Point your chest 180 degrees from the target (let your hips rotate a bit). No way in **** you can come out to in if you do that.

>

> Oh how many people wish that was true. If you don't properly rotate everything in sequence in the downswing , you can do a massive OTT pull hook or slice from that position.

I just figured out that the sequencing was my biggest culprit when it came to OTT, EE and nasty push slices. I was firing the hips way too early, which got my shoulders turning way too early, which always pushed my hands way too far out, then routed the club inward to an extreme. The swing thought that turned me from OTT push slices into draws (and hooks for my mishits) was essentially don't do a GD thing with the hips to start the downswing, just keep them stationary (they aren't really stationary, it's just the swing-thought I needed). Then, just move my hands in a downward arc to try and hit my right thigh, from there everything just goes on auto-pilot and I now rotate through the swing as I should have been all along. I mean, I still have issues I need to work on (don't we all), but slicing is not one of them.

I've found that turning my back to the target cures pretty much everything. The only other thing I need is to allow myself to feel like the club us going around me rather than up. It's been working really well with my driver and pretty well with my irons.

If things go wrong it's usually because I've not turned far enough and that has thrown my timing off. But mostly I just turn back then turn through. No more fading. Mostly high launching with a slight draw. I do get the occasional low hook but that's typically me not turning far enough.

Yesterday I had an incredible lesson with our head pro regarding my driver. Near the end we had me keeping my back to the target and just shifting my weight while letting the hands drop straight down with gravity in the transition. Finally, he said, "OK, now just do that and swing at 30% effort." I hit 6 drives in a row right down the middle of the range so far that they were going from our lesson tee in the back of the range, all the way down the range, and rolling up to the feet of our members on the practice tee at the other end. One of the most amazing things I've experienced in golf... After our lesson when he drove me back to the practice tee to pick up his next student (who had just been on the practice tee) the guy said, "Was that you hitting those balls to us?"

For a hint, watch a slow-mo of Jon Rahm's transition.

You need to learn about gravity dropping the club. Did a thread about this before it's the secret to never coming over the top.

Try imagining getting the handle inside the club head path . So the club head needs to swing outward some , at some point in the down swing.

Andrew rice puts it as “the handle is the motor boat , the shaft is the rope, the clubhead is the little tube kids ride on to have fun!” So the ride is no fun if you do not turn the boat (handle) at some point. Which causes the clubhead to swerve outward.

Pull the boat inside , so the tube goes outside.

Can't speak for anyone else but I know my biggest struggle with OTT is not firing my hips forward a bit first. Once the upper body takes the lead it's most certainly going to be an OTT result for me. Not always drastically so but still OTT.

> @Lamb said:

> You need to learn about gravity dropping the club. Did a thread about this before it's the secret to never coming over the top.

Then he'll just cast from the bottom instead of from the top.

I preface the below with the fact that I'm not an instructor, nor am I an expert by any means. However, after struggling with this exact issue and trying everything under the sun to fix it, I found a solution, which is described below. Try it at your own risk.

I had the same issue you seem to be experiencing. One day I was on the range, and as was typical, I was hitting balls with a horrible slice due to my out-to-in swing. A guy about twice my age (who, incidentally, looks just like Chubbs) , who was just a space over at the range, asked if he could swing my shiny new driver. I thought he just wanted to try it out, so I said "sure." He swung my driver at about half speed and hit the ball dead straight and about the same length I was hitting it. I was floored. He gave it back and just told me to relax and stop trying to hit the ball and, instead, to focus on just swinging the club.

I did as he instructed, and instead of focusing on hitting the ball, I relaxed my body and just swung the club at half speed and, voila, I hit the ball straight without losing any distance, despite swinging much slower than I had been. I'd still slice every now and again, but I would notice that when I sliced, it was because I tried to swing too fast and tensed up as I made contact with the ball, which was causing the slice.

Next time you are at the range, just address the ball as you normally would and swing at half speed and see what happens. If that works, keep swinging that speed until you get the "feel" of a well struck ball in your bones, then gradually speed up your swing while still maintaining a relaxed, smooth swing.

> @BeerPerHole said:

> Yesterday I had an incredible lesson with our head pro regarding my driver. Near the end we had me keeping my back to the target and just shifting my weight while letting the hands drop straight down with gravity in the transition. Finally, he said, "OK, now just do that and swing at 30% effort." I hit 6 drives in a row right down the middle of the range so far that they were going from our lesson tee in the back of the range, all the way down the range, and rolling up to the feet of our members on the practice tee at the other end. One of the most amazing things I've experienced in golf... After our lesson when he drove me back to the practice tee to pick up his next student (who had just been on the practice tee) the guy said, "Was that you hitting those balls to us?"

>

> For a hint, watch a slow-mo of Jon Rahm's transition.

#^^ THIS ^^

> @Dpavs said:

> Can't speak for anyone else but I know my biggest struggle with OTT is not firing my hips forward a bit first. Once the upper body takes the lead it's most certainly going to be an OTT result for me. Not always drastically so but still OTT.

Yeah that's my initial move. I feel like I make a lateral shift with my hips while keeping my head behind the ball. That increase secondary tilt. After that I just feel like I'm throwing the club around my lower body. Interestingly what feels to me like a 'lateral shift' is actually the start of rotation. A classic case of 'feel isn't real'.

I've only been doing this 'back to the target' for a month or so but the results are impressive. My historical fade has gone. I often draw (unheard of before). And I'm now one of the longer hitters in my circle of friends. There's a pond on our 11th that I could occasionally get the ball past but only through roll. Now I can carry it - over 190 yards of carry when 190 yards would have been a good total distance before.

I still have to be careful toward the end of a round when fatigue can resurface old habits and I haven't quite sorted out the timing of my release. I have a tendency to try and hold the face open (probably because I used to have a very short swing). If I can just let my hands do what they want the results are bang on target.

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> > @Lamb said:

> > You need to learn about gravity dropping the club. Did a thread about this before it's the secret to never coming over the top.

>

> Then he'll just cast from the bottom instead of from the top.

The last thing he will do is cast. The elbow and wrist angles dont change when you let gravity drop the club. The people who cast are those who fire from the top

> @andrue said:

> I've found that turning my back to the target cures pretty much everything. The only other thing I need is to allow myself to feel like the club us going around me rather than up. It's been working really well with my driver and pretty well with my irons.

>

> If things go wrong it's usually because I've not turned far enough and that has thrown my timing off. But mostly I just turn back then turn through. No more fading. Mostly high launching with a slight draw. I do get the occasional low hook but that's typically me not turning far enough.

This is exactly what I worked on in my last lesson. I had been striking my driver well the last few weeks. Two weeks ago I hit 5/7 fairways but the other day all hard slices. My instructor identified in my lesson I was coming in too steep. So he had me work on a drill to turn me more. In my mind it was easier for me to think wrap the club around me, on my downswing, than turn my hips. Somewhere along the line I stopped turning.

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> > @andrue said:

> > Turn your back to the target. Point your chest 180 degrees from the target (let your hips rotate a bit). No way in **** you can come out to in if you do that.

>

> Oh how many people wish that was true. If you don't properly rotate everything in sequence in the downswing , you can do a massive OTT pull hook or slice from that position.

Yep, that was me. Hard to explain what I did but I'd end up with a huge pull hook. Got it figured out now, but it's certainly possible to come OTT from that position.

> @Lamb said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > @Lamb said:

> > > You need to learn about gravity dropping the club. Did a thread about this before it's the secret to never coming over the top.

> >

> > Then he'll just cast from the bottom instead of from the top.

>

> The last thing he will do is cast. The elbow and wrist angles dont change when you let gravity drop the club. The people who cast are those who fire from the top

Just dropping the arms without other moves is going to lead the player to dropping the arms well below plane and the only way to reach the ball without hitting a foot behind the ball is to cast from the bottom.

I like width in my right arm going back ... and leading with the right elbow coming down

Has anyone ever tried just taking a mid iron and trying to hook it hard as possible?

When the slice is bad you'll notice you can't do it.

Though as your awareness builds... you'll gain control and be able to hit the ball straighter with more gusto.

Definitely worth a shot.