EE, steep shaft, OTT - can't shake it!

For a while now I've been on a journey to improve my swing, like many of you I've been going round in circles and haven't really made any progress. Recently I've been watching Monte's videos and I love the way he describes things and makes the complex simple through feels.

Apologies for the poor angle on the video, it's the best I could do unfortunately. This is my current swing without me trying any drills etc., Hopefully you can still see some of the swing fundamentals. I've been trying to correct my EE, high handle, over the top move with Monte's zipper away drill. However, whenever I try this i merely miss the ball or on the odd occassion I do connect I hit it off the toe and about 100 yards with a 7. It seems that I'm making the space for the arms to go into but I just can't get them to the ball. Is it something I'm doing in my setup or backswing causing me to fail this drill miserably or do I need to add a complimenting move to actually reach the ball. Is it even the case that I'm not doing the zipper away drill correctly or don't need to be.

Just as a side note this was a 7 iron hit aswell as I can - 160yards carry, 122 ball speed and 16 launch angle.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

> @rballantyne1 said:

> Chaps, for a while now I've been on a journey to improve my swing, like many of you I've been going round in circles and haven't really made any progress. Recently I've been watching Monte's videos and I love the way he describes things and makes the complex simple through feels.

> [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XP24qVVWIo](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XP24qVVWIo "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XP24qVVWIo")

> Apologies for the poor angle on the video, it's the best I could do unfortunately. This is my current swing without me trying any drills etc., Hopefully you can still see some of the swing fundamentals. I've been trying to correct my EE, high handle, over the top move with Monte's zipper away drill. However, whenever I try this i merely miss the ball or on the odd occassion I do connect I hit it off the toe and about 100 yards with a 7. It seems that I'm making the space for the arms to go into but I just can't get them to the ball. Is it something I'm doing in my setup or backswing causing me to fail this drill miserably or do I need to add a complimenting move to actually reach the ball. Is it even the case that I'm not doing the zipper away drill correctly or don't need to be.

>

> Just as a side note this was a 7 iron hit aswell as I can - 160yards carry, 122 ball speed and 16 launch angle.

>

> Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Video is unavailable.

@TMoakley1547 Should be embedded now

Restricted hip turn pulled your pelvis toward the ball then right hip and knee fired early.

Get right hip deeper with more more turn and keep right hip and knee in place longer.

Take this with a grain of salt as I’m still working on my own swing issues, and although I’m not outside/in like you, i EE even more. What I discovered and *think* may be *ONE* thing that *may* help is not having such an intent with the right hand to hit the ball. Don’t take this as contrary advice to what Hogan and countless others have said (wish they had 3 right hands), but at least in my experience I think my ingrained intent took this to the extreme and my hand path was tracking directly toward the ball, so I needed to back off. Obviously, doing this, there’s less room then between club and ball and I’d stand straight up and flip. Don’t get me wrong, when I timed it up, it felt powerful - extending at the moment of impact. This led me to think I just needed to keep working to improve my timing. Bad move because it was a vicious cycle that just further ingrained my bad habits.

One move that really helped me recently had been an intent to almost lead with the left arm - keep it straight on the downswing (think arc of a pendulum). I feel good tension in me left shoulder across the chest coming down and on video it’s 100x better and I’m more synched up.

I never thought to try this before because I’m so right arm/hand dominant that leading with the left felt unnatural and weak to me. So I never bothered to consider it until recently unfortunately.

Disclaimer - I’m not advocating for any particular school of thought or specific swing here with this. It’s just a feel to try. I just found through a couple instructors (Dan, Monte) that my swing “intent” was not correct and after going through a lot of feels and video, I concluded my right hand was a big problem.

> @TMoakley1547 said:

> > @rballantyne1 said:

> > Chaps, for a while now I've been on a journey to improve my swing, like many of you I've been going round in circles and haven't really made any progress. Recently I've been watching Monte's videos and I love the way he describes things and makes the complex simple through feels.

> > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XP24qVVWIo](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XP24qVVWIo "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XP24qVVWIo")

> > Apologies for the poor angle on the video, it's the best I could do unfortunately. This is my current swing without me trying any drills etc., Hopefully you can still see some of the swing fundamentals. I've been trying to correct my EE, high handle, over the top move with Monte's zipper away drill. However, whenever I try this i merely miss the ball or on the odd occassion I do connect I hit it off the toe and about 100 yards with a 7. It seems that I'm making the space for the arms to go into but I just can't get them to the ball. Is it something I'm doing in my setup or backswing causing me to fail this drill miserably or do I need to add a complimenting move to actually reach the ball. Is it even the case that I'm not doing the zipper away drill correctly or don't need to be.

> >

> > Just as a side note this was a 7 iron hit aswell as I can - 160yards carry, 122 ball speed and 16 launch angle.

> >

> > Any advice would be greatly appreciated

>

> Video is unavailable.

Try now mate should be working fella

> @TMoakley1547 said:

> > @rballantyne1 said:

> > Chaps, for a while now I've been on a journey to improve my swing, like many of you I've been going round in circles and haven't really made any progress. Recently I've been watching Monte's videos and I love the way he describes things and makes the complex simple through feels.

> > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XP24qVVWIo](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XP24qVVWIo "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XP24qVVWIo")

> > Apologies for the poor angle on the video, it's the best I could do unfortunately. This is my current swing without me trying any drills etc., Hopefully you can still see some of the swing fundamentals. I've been trying to correct my EE, high handle, over the top move with Monte's zipper away drill. However, whenever I try this i merely miss the ball or on the odd occassion I do connect I hit it off the toe and about 100 yards with a 7. It seems that I'm making the space for the arms to go into but I just can't get them to the ball. Is it something I'm doing in my setup or backswing causing me to fail this drill miserably or do I need to add a complimenting move to actually reach the ball. Is it even the case that I'm not doing the zipper away drill correctly or don't need to be.

> >

> > Just as a side note this was a 7 iron hit aswell as I can - 160yards carry, 122 ball speed and 16 launch angle.

> >

> > Any advice would be greatly appreciated

>

> Video is unavailable.

It should be on there now fella

You're about where I was a few years ago. First of all, your standing the club up so much in transition, that any proper changes will feel like your scooping and casting. Keep that in mind. I bet in a face on view, your head is well in front of the ball.

You need to get the feeling of releasing the club properly to feel normal to you. And I mean the "feeling" of your arms and hands out racing your pivot. I would try arm parallel swings first. You have to allow the club to release in front of your body. The feel (for me anyway)is that your belly button is facing the ball at impact and your arms are taking over and pulling your body to the finish. Like I said, it gonna feel real scoopy at first but trust it. 3 things work for me to get the feel of the release and arms overtaking pivot...no turn cast drill, arm parallel swings, and Dans straight arms drill.

^^great video,really breaks things down.

> @MonteScheinblum said:

> Restricted hip turn pulled your pelvis toward the ball then right hip and knee fired early.

>

> Get right hip deeper with more more turn and keep right hip and knee in place longer.

>

>

>

>

>

Thanks Monte, appreciate the advice will try and work on this. Would you say this lack of hip rotation contributes to the steep shaft move in transition?

I initially started trying to restrict the right hip turn as I was suffering with reverse spine angle.

> @Fireballer said:

> You're about where I was a few years ago. First of all, your standing the club up so much in transition, that any proper changes will feel like your scooping and casting. Keep that in mind. I bet in a face on view, your head is well in front of the ball.

> You need to get the feeling of releasing the club properly to feel normal to you. And I mean the "feeling" of your arms and hands out racing your pivot. I would try arm parallel swings first. You have to allow the club to release in front of your body. The feel (for me anyway)is that your belly button is facing the ball at impact and your arms are taking over and pulling your body to the finish. Like I said, it gonna feel real scoopy at first but trust it. 3 things work for me to get the feel of the release and arms overtaking pivot...no turn cast drill, arm parallel swings, and Dans straight arms drill.

>

>

Thanks, I agree about the amount I'm standing it up in transition, out of interest why would that make it feel like any proper changes would feel scoopy?

The drills in the past I've been trying make it feel like I'm holding all the angles etc but in reality they just make me throw the club earlier than I should anyway. I'll try having a go at those three drills and hopefully start to get the feel, do you think these are linked to EE and steep shaft in anyway?

I'm definitely a feel player and I know if I 'got' the right feeling I would be able to replicate it but so far nothings really clicked for me and any changes I make feel a little different but not markedly, certainly not enough to have a huge effect on the swing.

@Fireballer having watched a straight arm drill, assuming this is the one your talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEU_qi2kf8A. Would I be correct in saying I would be on the extreme of the straight arm drill i.e keeping them too straight and not being flicking at it enough?

> @rballantyne1 said:

> > @MonteScheinblum said:

> > Restricted hip turn pulled your pelvis toward the ball then right hip and knee fired early.

> >

> > Get right hip deeper with more more turn and keep right hip and knee in place longer.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Thanks Monte, appreciate the advice will try and work on this. Would you say this lack of hip rotation contributes to the steep shaft move in transition?

>

> I initially started trying to restrict the right hip turn as I was suffering with reverse spine angle.

Not contributing. It’s the initial cause.

Restricting the hip turn is NEVER the fix. Improving how they turn is.

> @rballantyne1 said:

> @Fireballer having watched a straight arm drill, assuming this is the one your talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEU_qi2kf8A. Would I be correct in saying I would be on the extreme of the straight arm drill i.e keeping them too straight and not being flicking at it enough?

This is the straight arm drill I was talking about. It makes me feel the arms properly working in front of you to feel the proper release.

> @rballantyne1 said:

> > @Fireballer said:

> > You're about where I was a few years ago. First of all, your standing the club up so much in transition, that any proper changes will feel like your scooping and casting. Keep that in mind. I bet in a face on view, your head is well in front of the ball.

> > You need to get the feeling of releasing the club properly to feel normal to you. And I mean the "feeling" of your arms and hands out racing your pivot. I would try arm parallel swings first. You have to allow the club to release in front of your body. The feel (for me anyway)is that your belly button is facing the ball at impact and your arms are taking over and pulling your body to the finish. Like I said, it gonna feel real scoopy at first but trust it. 3 things work for me to get the feel of the release and arms overtaking pivot...no turn cast drill, arm parallel swings, and Dans straight arms drill.

> >

> >

>

> Thanks, I agree about the amount I'm standing it up in transition, out of interest why would that make it feel like any proper changes would feel scoopy?

>

> The drills in the past I've been trying make it feel like I'm holding all the angles etc but in reality they just make me throw the club earlier than I should anyway. I'll try having a go at those three drills and hopefully start to get the feel, do you think these are linked to EE and steep shaft in anyway?

>

> I'm definitely a feel player and I know if I 'got' the right feeling I would be able to replicate it but so far nothings really clicked for me and any changes I make feel a little different but not markedly, certainly not enough to have a huge effect on the swing.

Its hard to put in words, but when the feel of the proper release finally hit me, it felt very flippy and scoopy. In actuality, I was holding all the angles properly with shaft lean. I, like you, were using a big upper body move to get the club back to the ball. When I started releasing it properly, my upper body stayed back and it felt very foreign. To get away from your OTT, you may need to try to cast or flip like in the no turn cast drill. Left arm parallel swings work well to. Your intention needs to be to release the club in front of you while keeping upper body back.

> @Fireballer said:

> > @rballantyne1 said:

> > > @Fireballer said:

> > > You're about where I was a few years ago. First of all, your standing the club up so much in transition, that any proper changes will feel like your scooping and casting. Keep that in mind. I bet in a face on view, your head is well in front of the ball.

> > > You need to get the feeling of releasing the club properly to feel normal to you. And I mean the "feeling" of your arms and hands out racing your pivot. I would try arm parallel swings first. You have to allow the club to release in front of your body. The feel (for me anyway)is that your belly button is facing the ball at impact and your arms are taking over and pulling your body to the finish. Like I said, it gonna feel real scoopy at first but trust it. 3 things work for me to get the feel of the release and arms overtaking pivot...no turn cast drill, arm parallel swings, and Dans straight arms drill.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Thanks, I agree about the amount I'm standing it up in transition, out of interest why would that make it feel like any proper changes would feel scoopy?

> >

> > The drills in the past I've been trying make it feel like I'm holding all the angles etc but in reality they just make me throw the club earlier than I should anyway. I'll try having a go at those three drills and hopefully start to get the feel, do you think these are linked to EE and steep shaft in anyway?

> >

> > I'm definitely a feel player and I know if I 'got' the right feeling I would be able to replicate it but so far nothings really clicked for me and any changes I make feel a little different but not markedly, certainly not enough to have a huge effect on the swing.

>

> Its hard to put in words, but when the feel of the proper release finally hit me, it felt very flippy and scoopy. In actuality, I was holding all the angles properly with shaft lean. I, like you, were using a big upper body move to get the club back to the ball. When I started releasing it properly, my upper body stayed back and it felt very foreign. To get away from your OTT, you may need to try to cast or flip like in the no turn cast drill. Left arm parallel swings work well to. Your intention needs to be to release the club in front of you while keeping upper body back.

>

>

Your comments coupled with monte's elevated ball trick shot might have just given me the feeling. Bare with me and see if this makes any sense. Point straight at the wall infront of you, arm aswell. then pull the forearm so it's at a 90 degree angle, to your upper arm, make sure your finger is still pointing at the wall. From here if I was to only move my wrist and point at the wall on the right for the backswing then left for the downswing that feeling is very 'scoopy' to me.

What I'm doing when I steepen the shaft is effectively the same as taking the same position but pointing at the roof?

> @Fireballer said:

> > @rballantyne1 said:

> > @Fireballer having watched a straight arm drill, assuming this is the one your talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEU_qi2kf8A. Would I be correct in saying I would be on the extreme of the straight arm drill i.e keeping them too straight and not being flicking at it enough?

>

>

> This is the straight arm drill I was talking about. It makes me feel the arms properly working in front of you to feel the proper release.

>

>

This is exactly the type of drill that describes what I was going for myself in my previous post. Before I was too wristy trying to hit the ball, but after doing some moves like that keeping left arm straight in the downswing, everything synched up so much better. And the beautiful part was it was automatic - instead of trying to address issues in transition/downswing individually, just having that change in intent got everything in a much better position.

> @Fireballer said:

> > @rballantyne1 said:

> > > @Fireballer said:

> > > You're about where I was a few years ago. First of all, your standing the club up so much in transition, that any proper changes will feel like your scooping and casting. Keep that in mind. I bet in a face on view, your head is well in front of the ball.

> > > You need to get the feeling of releasing the club properly to feel normal to you. And I mean the "feeling" of your arms and hands out racing your pivot. I would try arm parallel swings first. You have to allow the club to release in front of your body. The feel (for me anyway)is that your belly button is facing the ball at impact and your arms are taking over and pulling your body to the finish. Like I said, it gonna feel real scoopy at first but trust it. 3 things work for me to get the feel of the release and arms overtaking pivot...no turn cast drill, arm parallel swings, and Dans straight arms drill.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Thanks, I agree about the amount I'm standing it up in transition, out of interest why would that make it feel like any proper changes would feel scoopy?

> >

> > The drills in the past I've been trying make it feel like I'm holding all the angles etc but in reality they just make me throw the club earlier than I should anyway. I'll try having a go at those three drills and hopefully start to get the feel, do you think these are linked to EE and steep shaft in anyway?

> >

> > I'm definitely a feel player and I know if I 'got' the right feeling I would be able to replicate it but so far nothings really clicked for me and any changes I make feel a little different but not markedly, certainly not enough to have a huge effect on the swing.

>

> Its hard to put in words, but when the feel of the proper release finally hit me, it felt very flippy and scoopy. In actuality, I was holding all the angles properly with shaft lean. I, like you, were using a big upper body move to get the club back to the ball. When I started releasing it properly, my upper body stayed back and it felt very foreign. To get away from your OTT, you may need to try to cast or flip like in the no turn cast drill. Left arm parallel swings work well to. Your intention needs to be to release the club in front of you while keeping upper body back.

>

Really interesting, when I look at this drill it feels too me like the thing I'm currently trying to prevent then promote. I will definitely try this one out.

> @rballantyne1 said:

> > @Fireballer said:

> > > @rballantyne1 said:

> > > > @Fireballer said:

> > > > You're about where I was a few years ago. First of all, your standing the club up so much in transition, that any proper changes will feel like your scooping and casting. Keep that in mind. I bet in a face on view, your head is well in front of the ball.

> > > > You need to get the feeling of releasing the club properly to feel normal to you. And I mean the "feeling" of your arms and hands out racing your pivot. I would try arm parallel swings first. You have to allow the club to release in front of your body. The feel (for me anyway)is that your belly button is facing the ball at impact and your arms are taking over and pulling your body to the finish. Like I said, it gonna feel real scoopy at first but trust it. 3 things work for me to get the feel of the release and arms overtaking pivot...no turn cast drill, arm parallel swings, and Dans straight arms drill.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Thanks, I agree about the amount I'm standing it up in transition, out of interest why would that make it feel like any proper changes would feel scoopy?

> > >

> > > The drills in the past I've been trying make it feel like I'm holding all the angles etc but in reality they just make me throw the club earlier than I should anyway. I'll try having a go at those three drills and hopefully start to get the feel, do you think these are linked to EE and steep shaft in anyway?

> > >

> > > I'm definitely a feel player and I know if I 'got' the right feeling I would be able to replicate it but so far nothings really clicked for me and any changes I make feel a little different but not markedly, certainly not enough to have a huge effect on the swing.

> >

> > Its hard to put in words, but when the feel of the proper release finally hit me, it felt very flippy and scoopy. In actuality, I was holding all the angles properly with shaft lean. I, like you, were using a big upper body move to get the club back to the ball. When I started releasing it properly, my upper body stayed back and it felt very foreign. To get away from your OTT, you may need to try to cast or flip like in the no turn cast drill. Left arm parallel swings work well to. Your intention needs to be to release the club in front of you while keeping upper body back.

> >

> Really interesting, when I look at this drill it feels too me like the thing I'm currently trying to prevent then promote. I will definitely try this one out.

One thing Monte is consistent with..."the golf swing in counterintuitive". What you think you dont need to do, you actually need to.

Yep, like they say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. This was me as I kept hacking away trying to get my timing down. Definitely counter-intuitive.

Lead with the right elbow. Big fan of that feel. At address, keep your pressures on the balls of your feet. At the top of the back swing, pressure on the right heel and a very little on the left toes / ball of your foot (do not lose ALL flex in the trail knee). If you go straight trail leg, you'll goof it up and pump again.

So, delay your turns a little and let the right elbow (not hands) lead the the way. Do this for hundreds and hundreds of balls while recording yourself and comparing to instructors / students swings at only 25 - 50% speed / effort. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

Remember, it's not about the contact or the ball flight or the shot result. It's about the feel and feel alone. Don't get pissed.

Thanks guys, appreciate all the help so far. From all you've said I've got a couple of feelings in my practice swings that feel wildly different to what I was doing and make a lot of sense.

1) Releasing the club properly, imaging that I am throwing the club at the target makes perfect sense to me and it's completely different to what I was doing. In my mind this feels quite "scoopy", really hoping this is the right feel. This feels alot like it would if I was to swing in baseball, the way I'm currently swinging would provide no power. When I practice this with a shaft the noice of the whoosh is vastly different, really excited to try this on the range.

2) Wrist angles - In a sense tied to the one before, it feels as if I am throwing a ball underarm with my right hand. This feels like I am swinging on one plane and the wrists are hinging on this plane. When I look at the slow mo practice video the right elbow tucks nicely at the top of the backswing, something I've always struggle getting the feeling for.

Going to get myself to the range this weekend and hope these feelings are correct. It feels completely different to the way I was swinging but also very easy. I sincerely hope this is not false hope!

> @Stanks said:

> Lead with the right elbow. Big fan of that feel. At address, keep your pressures on the balls of your feet. At the top of the back swing, pressure on the right heel and a very little on the left toes / ball of your foot (do not lose ALL flex in the trail knee). If you go straight trail leg, you'll goof it up and pump again.

> So, delay your turns a little and let the right elbow (not hands) lead the the way. Do this for hundreds and hundreds of balls while recording yourself and comparing to instructors / students swings at only 25 - 50% speed / effort. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

> Remember, it's not about the contact or the ball flight or the shot result. It's about the feel and feel alone. Don't get pissed.

Thanks Stanks, so would you say that my arms are too far behind the turn and disjointed? I've always thought the complete opposite - proves how counter intuitive the golf swing really is.

> @rballantyne1 said:

> Thanks guys, appreciate all the help so far. From all you've said I've got a couple of feelings in my practice swings that feel wildly different to what I was doing and make a lot of sense.

>

> 1) Releasing the club properly, imaging that I am throwing the club at the target makes perfect sense to me and it's completely different to what I was doing. In my mind this feels quite "scoopy", really hoping this is the right feel. This feels alot like it would if I was to swing in baseball, the way I'm currently swinging would provide no power. When I practice this with a shaft the noice of the whoosh is vastly different, really excited to try this on the range.

>

> 2) Wrist angles - In a sense tied to the one before, it feels as if I am throwing a ball underarm with my right hand. This feels like I am swinging on one plane and the wrists are hinging on this plane. When I look at the slow mo practice video the right elbow tucks nicely at the top of the backswing, something I've always struggle getting the feeling for.

>

> Going to get myself to the range this weekend and hope these feelings are correct. It feels completely different to the way I was swinging but also very easy. I sincerely hope this is not false hope!

My 2 cents fwiw: It seems like you should be working on the proper hip turn/pivot in front of a mirror per Monte's diagnosis probably without even a club before worrying about the above.

> @rballantyne1 said:

> > @Stanks said:

> > Lead with the right elbow. Big fan of that feel. At address, keep your pressures on the balls of your feet. At the top of the back swing, pressure on the right heel and a very little on the left toes / ball of your foot (do not lose ALL flex in the trail knee). If you go straight trail leg, you'll goof it up and pump again.

> > So, delay your turns a little and let the right elbow (not hands) lead the the way. Do this for hundreds and hundreds of balls while recording yourself and comparing to instructors / students swings at only 25 - 50% speed / effort. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

> > Remember, it's not about the contact or the ball flight or the shot result. It's about the feel and feel alone. Don't get pissed.

>

> Thanks Stanks, so would you say that my arms are too far behind the turn and disjointed? I've always thought the complete opposite - proves how counter intuitive the golf swing really is.

You gotta clean up your back swing and hip movement first. Not much can be told from a down the line view. A face on view SYNCED with a down the line view with tell all.

Taking it from a baseball POV, I'd say the down swing is semi comparable to a submarine style pitch almost. These pitchers lead with the elbow and you should as well (exaggeration feel).

When it comes to your turn and arms, you want the two matched up through the swing. I really implore you to look at Montes videos on his Instagram and Youtube. I also recommend you grab his videos on his site (Efficient Swing series is on sale until May 1 and people are raving about it).

Just understand that this is a long long journey and nothing will "click". But, the actions will get better and in time, so will your golf game.

> @Fireballer said:

> > @rballantyne1 said:

> > @Fireballer having watched a straight arm drill, assuming this is the one your talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEU_qi2kf8A. Would I be correct in saying I would be on the extreme of the straight arm drill i.e keeping them too straight and not being flicking at it enough?

>

>

> This is the straight arm drill I was talking about. It makes me feel the arms properly working in front of you to feel the proper release.

>

>

I'm a little confused what he is actually doing in this drill here, is this the same as what is described in this video? Is it as simple as bringing it back till the left arm is parallel to the ground on the way back and doing that all the way through till it's parralel on the follow through?

I've got Monte's efficient swing now and I've been working on what Monte said about the deep hip turn and it has made a huge difference, feels completely different on the backswing and like I'm turning around my spine rather than just swaying. Even though I'm in the right position in my backswing I'm still swaying through and my head and upper body are way ahead of the ball after impact. Will this give me the feeling of realising the club properly and holding the upper body back?

This probably won’t help since it’s a feel and feels are pretty individual. It starts with understanding how important it is to get the trail elbow in front of your torso with the trail shoulder externally rotated. This for me is my major key.

This means there HAS to be space for it. I almost feel like I am sucking my belly in, or tucking my hips under a little at address. I want to keep that feel.

Then the trail hip has to get deep on the backswing. And the trail shoulder has to rotate externally so the elbow isn’t flared outwards - the kiss of doom for me. Plus wrists bow/extend a little. This (hip deep, external trail shoulder, wrists bow/extend) is sustained thru transition. Now everything is in a decent position.

For me what works is, once I really understood what I just wrote, I keep that space as I rotate everything thru impact. The whole shoulder, core, hips and legs feel like one unit rotating open as fast as I can.

All of this for me stems from really knowing how critical the trail elbow position is. It needs to ‘’lead’ the club. Once i grasped that it became a whole lot easier not to ee because it’s a whole system and not just a bunch of disconnected pieces that taken in isolation don’t seem to make full sense.

@wmblake2000 you've summed it up really well, I completely understand what you mean.

What I understand of the problem now is that the first error I was making on the above was the hip turn on the backswing wasn't deep enough meaning there's no space as you said. Once I start the downswing I fire the hips far too early and this throws the arms out OTT and they get disconnected. The only way to strike it from there is to EE. Monte summed this up very succintly but due to my lack of understanding I was unaware of what he was meant initially.

I've just got the proper deep hip turn down after a couple of weeks practice, having the club come back on the same arc as the shoulder and hips rather than 'straight back' which I was trying to do before (the improvement in consistency and ease of swing from this move alone was phenomonal). It now feels like I'm swinging around my body rather than before when I was swaying back and forth on a straight line parralel with the target. I'm now working on feeling the proper release through the above drills, and getting the feeling off the upper body staying back as the club goes out through the ball. This feels to me like everything is moving in one unit as you say.

Once I've got these feelings down I think I can really address the EE issue which sounds like a combination of wrist angles, leading with the elbow and doing Monte's zipper away drill in transition. I'm aware this is going to be the most difficult move given the desire to fire the 'hump the goat' and cup the wrist in transition. It's interesting you talk about the elbow getting ahead of the torso and it's importance, this isn't something I've ever really thought about, do you have any drills or advice for achieving this.

No drills other than std Monte drills- the main thing is getting it in good position in backswing (rotate l arm) which goes hand in hand with shallowing and wrists... but I just see and imagine the elbow along with the rotation at impact.

In a way I have gone from a bunch of pieces to what now feels more whole. So be patient- I still drill almost every piece of backswing and transition in slow motion and probably will for a long long time..

But what’s funny is I have had this specific feel for many years. It would magically appear for a day or two then vanish for a long time. Now after getting a much clearer idea of all the pieces it seems like I can finally sustain it, if the golfing gods don’t strike me down for writing that

One last thought. I don’t think anyone can fully describe what it really is to make a different/better swing. Even the most brilliant can only sort of approximate it for someone else - by words or video pictures or moving your body around... Finally each person has to find his own feel, etc