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My experience gaming clubs that were designed for my handicap range

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Comments

  • MyherobobhopeMyherobobhope hey there, blimpy boy. Flying through the sky so fancy free.  2413Members Posts: 2,413
    Joined:  #122

    @puttingmatt said:
    I am finding it hard to believe anyone would play any style club if it does not produce a favorable result. And the result for anyone would have to be their score. Lots of design and styles, but these are tools for a task, no need to make the task harder

    If you don’t think people will make their lives harder for no reason, I’m jealous of the people you know.

    Posted:

    Current Bag (Rebuilding as of 5/6/19)
    Driver: Adams Fast 12 LS with Matrix Black Tie (to be replaced)
    3W: Adams Fast 12 with Excalibur (to be replaced)
    Hybrid: Bridgestone j40 with Excalibur (to be replaced)
    4-9: Taylor Made Oversize (to be replaced)
    PW: Mizuon HMP with DG120 Stiff (5/6)
    50 degree Vokey with DG120 Stiff (5/6)
    56 and 60 degree Cleveland Wedges (to be replaced)
    Odyssey Tank #7 (only club I'm keeping this season)

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  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SC 3628Members Posts: 3,628
    Joined:  edited May 6, 2019 5:59pm #123

    @toc said:
    I had a very similar roommate in college and as long as his choices didn't impact me I didn't care what he did.

    You didn't care?

    Those are strong words. Not caring about the well-being of another human is pretty bold. I bet you cared a lot.

    If you saw him going down a bad path in a dead-end job with bad influences you wouldn't care?
    If you met him again at a low point in his life you wouldn't care?
    If he talked to you about wanting more and about feeling lost you wouldn't care?
    If you spent nights on the back porch talking about life and knew each like brothers you wouldn't care?

    I think you would care. And as a very un-religious guy I would pray that you found the strength to be a supportive person who told the truth and said honestly, 'I don't think this is the best version of you.'

    Posted:
    Driver: M3 w. Tensei CK Pro Orange (60-TX)
    Fairways: M6 (3w / 5w / 7w)
    Irons: 716 CB 3-P
    Wedges: SM6 53-F / 60-S
    Putter: Newport 2 Select
  • BigmeanBigmean Everything is Relative  4970Members Posts: 4,970
    Joined:  #124

    @nsxguy said:

    @Bigmean said:
    I am just curious at what point in the most equipment regulated sport OTHER THAN the modern non wound ball have you been able to alter your handicap with new/different equipment based on the scientific properties of that equipment?

    I own 3 drivers that are like Tesla’s vs a 1995 Ford Taurus compared to the old grey metal king cobra with stock shaft I had in high school, or the mchenry metals I had in college, and cost so much more it isn’t funny, yet for some reason I can’t buy the length and accuracy I had then with all that advancement.

    One would think that the tech has surely surpassed my own flaws since then based on reading this.

    Maybe the reason this is never ending is becuase neither side can actually prove their point. It is the equivalent of someone believing in a god trying to justify themselves to an atheist and visa versa. There is simply no definitive proof, only circumstantial flimsy “evidence” that is interpreted differently
    From depending on what you believe in.

    That is why I am agnostic and play a set of each. I am smart enough to know what is beyond my comprehension....

    I will say this as a hopeful agnostic and pro blades guy...... with cbs obviously being the science backed “atheist” in the argument and the blades being the faith of higher power, the days where cbs seem right don’t make you feel as good about the world as the days that The blades were the right thing to put in the bag that morning.

    Peace..

    So which driver and irons do you play ?

    And how do you decide on which to play when ?

    What's are the deciding factors for you ?

    Since you asked....here it is....

    Currently I have 2 sets of miura blades (one the small blades that have been gamers for longest since my mp14/dci 962 bags, other is new to me toy) and a set of onoff 347 Shingo CBs.

    The shingos are out there, but I have failed to happily integrate cbs I thought I liked such as the Wilson staffs and others similar, I feel like I was choosing cbs too blade like. So this time I went as low offset as I could in a real chunky helping design. The jury is way out on them but I am committing time with this set as the feel is what I want in a CB, and I am moving to graphite shafts and love the 110 proto recoils in them. So much I put some 10s Attas shafts in one of Miura sets, haven’t played with them tho.

    I can nastily pull hook the ball, and it comes out of no where after straight balls,a so I really shy away from offset or at least visual. I really prefer square to pretty square toe, my miss is between the hosel and center and When I am working on swing things I am no stranger to the hosel. I am sensitive to feels but not like I read on here. I prefer heavy feedback not soft MB’s (miura) and soft not hollow/dead cbs (endo). Of course shafts are a whole other spin on it. I am feeling best now with 100-115g shafts and I Like to feel the head, d2-d3 irons and I am ok, my 3 wood (913 Titleist) I have lead taped to a D6 and I absolutely stripe it, and I weight drivers to D4. Again, a lot of this is keeping the club behind some to snap through without hooking in my Mind.

    Current driver is Ryoma maxima, which was accurate for me a few years back, I am shafting up an epic forged with a nice anti left shaft I am excited about and also have an onoff driver that is long but I am a little unpredictable with. This is my main goal this summer to reel in.

    How do I play 2 sets?

    Easily I guess. Never thought much about it. The hot hand usually, like a manager deciding when to pull a pitcher I guess. I literally go in my garage and think about last round, how I feel that morning and make a gut call. Sometimes it is a simple placebo of benching the bad set from last round and feeling pumped for a change of scenery. Setting a positive mental tone.

    The problem is you need two sets you are very comfortable with. Last 3 years has been more of Cb tryouts. I seriously would just get dci 962s again and be done with it but I feel like I have to be able to find something I like as much with a less hollow and softer feel.

    Long answer but I tried to honestly answer you questions in good faith.

    Posted:
    Ryoma Maxima 9.5*/Quadra Fire Express
    913F 15*/Tour AD MT7
    Roddio 21* hybrid/Tour AD DI75
    Miura 1957 small blades/Nippon 1150 tours
    Wilson Staff V4 tour modus 130
    Mizuno MP-14/DG300-raw finish
    Buchi 50/56. RomaRo 59
    Gold's Factory custom original flat-stick amongst a couple dozen others.
  • cliffhangercliffhanger spruce grove alberta 1761ClubWRX Posts: 1,761
    Joined:  #125

    @MelloYello said:

    @cliffhanger said:

    If something annoys you that much (and it certainly appears that it does), why don't you choose to avoid it and post elsewhere? I think your anger is getting the best of you... and your wrong in assuming with most of what you said. Sorry if thats offensive sir.

    Why should I be worried about pulling punches? This is an online forum. Even if we try and keep things polite, it certainly doesn't seem wise to assume that everyone is rationale and therefore deserves to have their views honored.

    Only on WRX can a mid- or high-handicap make a case for using blades. We should never recommend that sort of fitting but for some reason it gains traction on WRX.

    If some guy that swung his driver at 85-mph came in talking about how he bought a $400 shaft on Ebay that was some heavy, X-flex, tip-stiff, ultra low-spin thing, we wouldn't take that seriously. We would recognize that guy as a wannabe. Some guys will spend $400 to have Tiger's shaft even when it doesn't fit them at all. Fine...but the moment that person wants to get online and start lying about how it's a good fit for him? Okay, that's delusional nonsense.

    People would explain to that guy how that shaft isn't optimizing his launch conditions and how in the long run, whatever he feels like he's gaining is ultimately not a good trade and that's it's better to get properly fit to something more appropriate so he can hit the ball higher, further and straighter.

    People are receptive to this kind of info when it comes to expensive driver shafts, fairway woods, hybrids and wedges because they want to get it right. But for some reason people don't seem to have the same desire to get the irons right. They are biased towards wanting blades and it leads to an onslaught on WRX where tons of mid- and high-handicap golfers are slapping it around with blades talking about how great they feel and they're great tools for improving your game.

    Maybe if these guys actually bought these irons new for $1,200 they wouldn't be so quick to buy something that didn't fit them. It's way easier to throw down $300 on Ebay for a cheap set of blades and think nothing of it.

    What I see are a bunch of guys who like them because they're shiny and pretty and on the 1 shot in 10 where they actually find the certain of the face, they get a rush like they're a real shot-maker.

    I just think living in fantasy-land is kind of pointless when a person could actually approach the game looking to optimizing his scores and gain some real confidence by going with reasonable equipment and a nice practice schedule.

    For 99% of amateur players out there, blades are a phase.

    The fact people here put so much emphasis on equipment is really kind of sad I think. This year I simplified my bag, went with CBs and tried to stop worrying about equipment.

    I'm playing the best and most consistent golf of my life. Compared to a lot of people who are out there breaking par I still suck but I wouldn't trade shooting solid scores for the experience of using blades.

    Been there. Done that. Ain't worth going back.

    In all fairness, I played my best golf in over 15 years with a set of blades in the bag (4-PW) MP-18 Blades and went from just over a 12 to the low 8 range. I did see a fall off in GIR’s when I stopped practicing though and ultimately was the decision behind the CB’s this year... however I may go back.
    For the most part I just don’t get stressed anymore hitting a blade than anything else.
    I don’t think anyone on here would blindly promote Blades over CBs for any mid or high capper... however if someone posts here that they are having success with blades over CBs then I applaud them for it. I have no reason to doubt them.
    I do think your driver analogy is a bit of a stretch though because we are taking Ill fitting as much as just having the wrong gear... let’s be honest, even if the 85mph guy strikes one in the dead center with that x stiff shaft, the result is still way less favourable than desired. However if the same golfer pures a blade with the right shaft combo... the result can be very desirable. The amount of times that a golfer finds the center of the face will vary by a large margin even within a group of golfers with the same handicap.

    Posted:


    Driver: TM M6 (10.5 deg) with Project X Smoke 60X playing at 45 inches
    3Wood: TM M6 (14 deg) with Project X Smoke 70X playing at 43 inches
    2 iron: TM 790 UDI bent to 19 degrees with Project X HZRDUS 85 X (6.5) at 39.5 inches
    4-GW: TM P760 with KBS Tour X (all bent 2 deg flat) standard length
    Wedges: TM Hi-Toe 56/10 and 60/10 (all bent 2 deg flat) with 2.0 hi-rev shafts both standard lengths
    TM Mullen 2 TP putter @ 34 inches 
    TM TP 5 ball 

     All grips 360 tour velvet burgundy with 1 extra wrap

    Sun mountain 4.5 stand bag

  • kiwihackerkiwihacker  736Members Posts: 736
    Joined:  edited May 6, 2019 8:18pm #126

    @MelloYello said:

    @kiwihacker said:
    Man now you're comparing smoking weed to playing blades. That's quite the long bow you have there.

    It's an apt comparison, I think.

    One guy is blowing what little money he has on something he doesn't need thereby making life harder on himself in other areas.

    The other guy is making it unnecessarily hard to hit the green from 165-out.

    A lot of otherwise decent people go out of their way to create unnecessary friction in their lives all the while convincing themselves that somehow their course of actions makes sense.

    Humans, bro.

    Dey weird like dat.

    If you don't like the analogy, then you sir can, as my little dog does, go bite your pillow.

    Yeah you're right. Both induce a pleasurable, intoxicating experience that leaves you wanting to come back for more. The pure feel of a blade, the high towering ball flight, the instant feedback that tells you exactly what you want to know. It gives a pleasurable sensation that leaves you feeling great and you can't wait to feel that sensation again ( on your next shot). ;)

    Posted:
    Cobra King F9  Driver 10.5° Atmos Blue 6 stiff
    17° Callaway X Hot 4 wood
    20.5°& 23° Cleveland DST Launcher hybrids
    Taylormade R7 TP 4-PW irons
    Cleveland RTX 2 52°/10°, RTX 3 58°/9°
    Ping Anser Sigma 2 putter
  • kiwihackerkiwihacker  736Members Posts: 736
    Joined:  #127

    @MelloYello said:

    @toc said:
    I had a very similar roommate in college and as long as his choices didn't impact me I didn't care what he did.

    You didn't care?

    Those are strong words. Not caring about the well-being of another human is pretty bold. I bet you cared a lot.

    If you saw him going down a bad path in a dead-end job with bad influences you wouldn't care?
    If you met him again at a low point in his life you wouldn't care?
    If he talked to you about wanting more and about feeling lost you wouldn't care?
    If you spent nights on the back porch talking about life and knew each like brothers you wouldn't care?

    I think you would care. And as a very un-religious guy I would pray that you found the strength to be a supportive person who told the truth and said honestly, 'I don't think this is the best version of you.'

    I care and I'm worried about you. An 8 handicap really shouldn't be hitting those 'hard to hit' 3 & 4 irons. You need to replace them with 3 & 4 hybrids otherwise you're just kidding yourself and it hurts me to see it. Also as an 8 handicap you really shouldn't be bagging a 60° wedge. Anyone with a handicap greater than 5 is too inconsistent to play a wedge any higher than 58°. Also those CBs must be punishing your less than perfect strikes. They're Ok in the 8-PW but I suggest you get fitted for AP1s in the 5-7 irons. Stop kidding yourself and making the game harder unnecessarily.

    Posted:
    Cobra King F9  Driver 10.5° Atmos Blue 6 stiff
    17° Callaway X Hot 4 wood
    20.5°& 23° Cleveland DST Launcher hybrids
    Taylormade R7 TP 4-PW irons
    Cleveland RTX 2 52°/10°, RTX 3 58°/9°
    Ping Anser Sigma 2 putter
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SC 3628Members Posts: 3,628
    Joined:  #128

    @kiwihacker said:
    Yeah you're right. Both induce a pleasurable, intoxicating experience that leaves you wanting to come back for more. The pure feel of a blade, the high towering ball flight, the instant feedback that tells you exactly what you want to know. It gives a pleasurable sensation that leaves you feeling great and you can't wait to feel that sensation again ( on your next shot). ;)

    Hope your bag has enough pockets...

    ...what's a typical round for you, maybe 17 or 18 underwear changes?

    Posted:
    Driver: M3 w. Tensei CK Pro Orange (60-TX)
    Fairways: M6 (3w / 5w / 7w)
    Irons: 716 CB 3-P
    Wedges: SM6 53-F / 60-S
    Putter: Newport 2 Select
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SC 3628Members Posts: 3,628
    Joined:  #129

    @kiwihacker said:
    I care and I'm worried about you. An 8 handicap really shouldn't be hitting those 'hard to hit' 3 & 4 irons. You need to replace them with 3 & 4 hybrids otherwise you're just kidding yourself and it hurts me to see it. Also as an 8 handicap you really shouldn't be bagging a 60° wedge. Anyone with a handicap greater than 5 is too inconsistent to play a wedge any higher than 58°. Also those CBs must be punishing your less than perfect strikes. They're Ok in the 8-PW but I suggest you get fitted for AP1s in the 5-7 irons. Stop kidding yourself and making the game harder unnecessarily.

    TRIGGERED!

    lol

    Posted:
    Driver: M3 w. Tensei CK Pro Orange (60-TX)
    Fairways: M6 (3w / 5w / 7w)
    Irons: 716 CB 3-P
    Wedges: SM6 53-F / 60-S
    Putter: Newport 2 Select
  • dciccorittidciccoritti An inch an hour, 2 feet a day Toronto, Canada 1689Members Posts: 1,689
    Joined:  #130

    @MelloYello said:
    TR

    ol

    Posted:

    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway

    • TS2
    • 716 MB 5-PW
    • MG 52 SB-09 | 56 LB-09 | 60 LB-09
    • Select Newport 2
    • ProV1x
  • revanantrevanant  401Members Posts: 401
    Joined:  edited May 6, 2019 8:52pm #131

    @MelloYello said:

    @dpb5031 said:
    @MelloYello , what's your HC again?

    Right now I'm sitting at an 8 and I'll be honest, I feel like I'm just above being a hack.

    I had a rough start to the season with several rounds that included some truly awful putting (41 putts!) so in January when I started keeping track I was up at like a 15. Over the last couple months I've ironed some of that out. Driving is reasonably good. It has potential. Putting is improved but still not where it needs to be for me to consider myself a "good" golfer. I'm hitting 60% of my fairways and 50% of my GIR on a relatively tough course (137 slope). I'm still giving away a stroke or two per round on relatively short putts that (in all fairness) have no business missing.

    So as putting continues to improve and I settle into my driver swing which just keeps getting better I hope to bring my handicap down to about 5 by end-of-year. Right now I'm starting to shoot respectable numbers on the regular which should definitely do that. Last few rounds have been 77, 78, 80 and 81 so that's definitely getting there.

    Like I said, I just need to clean up the putting and make sure to avoid the random double that is sneaking its way in. There's still one hole per round where I pull the wrong club on an approach just being dumb as I try to force something. That 80 above included a quad for instance. That just doesn't need to be there, you know? Fairway metal tee shot went OB fast, I tried to bite off about 200 with my 2nd to get most of the way there and found a bush. Had to punch out and then chip on. From there it was just a total disaster.

    @dpb5031 said:
    Your signature indicates Titleist 716 CBs in 3-PW.

    That's accurate.

    @dpb5031 said:
    Maybe dump the 3 & 4 irons for some GI hybrids? Consistent with your posturing, most recreational players have no business carrying a 3 iron...and the 716 CBs are not far off from most MB blades, certainly not much GI built into them...lol! Please explain

    Oh, God. That's terrible inference. I know you're joking but that's just stupid. I haven't said anything like that. I don't push anyone towards GI stuff in general. Remember, there are SGI, GI and Player's clubs. I put blades at the extreme end as a 4th type really.

    I don't push anyone away from Player's clubs though. In my experience that's where about 90% of serious recreational players ought to be. GI irons are actively trying to correct for some bad flaw and blades assume a perfect strike. Player's clubs are just a perfect middle ground. They reward good strikes but offer some help without assuming you're a hack.

    So IMHO, there's just no reason to go GI unless you need legit help getting the ball airborne. Nobody with a reasonably-refined swing needs to go to that extreme. YMMV.

    And besides, I'm not putting another club in the bag that I have to practice with, particularly one with a graphite shaft. I had 3-iron once yesterday from about 210 and hit center green with it. I had another on a super long Par-3 where I honestly probably needed an extra half-club, haha. I was stuck between 3i and 4w. I caught it slightly high on the face and had to chip from just short of the green but TBH, if that's the miss I'm happy (a blade likely would've been wet!). I'll take those all day long. There's no reason to believe I'm not fit with shots like those. Both were dead on line. I had a few 4-iron's last weekend at a different course and got similar results. I had no problem striping it on the 2-3 times I pulled it.

    So don't get me wrong, I certainly don't want to be hitting a 3- or 4-iron into any green but with the CB I know I can. Last year I had the 716 MB and those did me absolutely no favors. Anything less than perfect contact was bad.

    But hybrids? They're a different animal entirely. I don't think they lend themselves to greater accuracy unless the person struggles getting the ball in the air to begin with (which I don't).

    For what it's worth, I'm 100% with you on hybrids. I want to like them. But I find I really struggle with them. If I need a long shot, my first answer is a fairway wood. It seems to work automatically for me, and I suspect it's because I tend to sweep.

    If I only could choose between hybrids and irons, I'd probably find myself playing irons all the way through the bag. ; )

    More generally, I think you and I agree on iron choice. I'm not dogmatic, and once you're in the player's iron segment, you're dealing with small-headed irons with thinner soles and toplines that have a lot of feel.

    The only point where we differ is that, when I shift gears between my MP-4s and AP1s, I still find I have about the same amount of lateral drop-off. So, I've made my choice based on the iron that gives me more confidence, and based on the fact that I do strike my MP-4s well. If my shots were measurably worse with my MP-4s, instead of better, I wouldn't be as much of a fan. The result is that, if the AP1s don't outperform my MP-4s despite their theoretical forgiveness, I'm skeptical that "less forgiving" irons in the player's CB category will be very different from MBs--I'm more inclined to choose based on my experience with an individual iron, no matter what the back looks like or what the MPF is.

    In other words, my experience has been that iron testing doesn't always match up with what's been advertised. For example, I've hit every iron in the Titleist family. My best results were with the 716 CB. Feel was markedly better than the 716 MB, and the 716 CB blew away the AP2 on both aesthetics and ball flight--for whatever reason, I find the smaller headed CB much easier to launch and hit than the larger AP2. I actually like the AP2 the least out of all the irons in the Titleist family. And if I was buying retail, those would be in the top 2--they would need to beat out the Apex MB, which I owned for a short while and hit very well, and I would dig into the numbers and figure out which of those two fit me best. I've hit a ton of irons on the market, and the 716 CB is top of my list in terms of feel and how they performed for me. If I could only buy Titleist irons, the MBs wouldn't be on my radar--the 716 CB felt and performed that much better for me.

    I'm also a guy playing irons in the "wrong" shaft for me. I have my MP-4s shafted in Project X 6.0. To @nsxguy , my 6 iron swing speed averages about 75 - 76 mph, with ball speed of around 103-105 mph. I'm not killing my 6 iron--It's my 140-ish carry club, at around 6k spin. But the results are good and accurate, the feel isn't harsh, and I actually did real testing on shaft choice with club champion--what we basically decided was that my ideal shaft would be aerotech steelfiber at either 95 stiff or 80 stiff, but that the Project X 6.0 were actually fine and I didn't need to reshaft. The basic gain was that I picked up a little ballspeed and height with the weight-saving of the graphite shafts, but the difference was somewhat marginal, and not necessarily worth the out-of-pocket cost of a reshaft.

    @nsxguy -- for what it's worth, I do appreciate your opinion. Honestly, I know you didn't necessarily mean it this way, but knowing now what you think about my ball-striking, it's immensely valuable for my game plan going forward into the summer. Namely, my priorities are now to figure out my driver (or just replace it with a three-wood I can hit off the deck), and work heavily on my putting/short game. I'm not going to worry about my iron choice or reshafting my irons, or even worry about getting more distance out of my irons. It's easy to get involved in the minutia of gear and lose track of playing golf. Instead, I'm going to leave them untouched for a bit and only worry about my iron choice if I find my ball-striking takes a big drop downwards. For what it's worth, I shot a 46 last month on 9, and that was with an awful 4-putt from 5 feet away, so I'm definitely seeing better results on the course.

    Posted:

    Cobra King LTD
    Cobra F8 3W
    Cobra F6 Baffler 5W
    Mizuno MP-4 w/ Project X 6.0
    Titleist Vokey SM5 54-10 M
    Mizuno JPX 58-14
    Ping Redwood D66

  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SC 3628Members Posts: 3,628
    Joined:  edited May 6, 2019 8:52pm #132

    Hey, looks who's back!

    WRX's most original and creative poster @dciccoritti

    Some say he's unoriginal and boring. I say no way.
    Some say he's condescending but I disagree.
    Some say he's a depressing, mopey killjoy. Me? Noooo.

    He's the life of the party.

    Posted:
    Driver: M3 w. Tensei CK Pro Orange (60-TX)
    Fairways: M6 (3w / 5w / 7w)
    Irons: 716 CB 3-P
    Wedges: SM6 53-F / 60-S
    Putter: Newport 2 Select
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  • dciccorittidciccoritti An inch an hour, 2 feet a day Toronto, Canada 1689Members Posts: 1,689
    Joined:  #133

    @MelloYello said:
    Hey, looks who's back!

    WRX's most original and creative poster @dciccoritti

    Some say he's unoriginal and boring. I say no way.
    Some say he's condescending but I disagree.
    Some say he's a depressing, mopey killjoy. Me? Noooo.

    He's the life of the party.

    Troll...and dainty :-) Switches from blades to CB's because his hands hurt LOL :-D

    Posted:

    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway

    • TS2
    • 716 MB 5-PW
    • MG 52 SB-09 | 56 LB-09 | 60 LB-09
    • Select Newport 2
    • ProV1x
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SC 3628Members Posts: 3,628
    Joined:  #134

    @dciccoritti said:

    @MelloYello said:
    Hey, looks who's back!

    WRX's most original and creative poster @dciccoritti

    Some say he's unoriginal and boring. I say no way.
    Some say he's condescending but I disagree.
    Some say he's a depressing, mopey killjoy. Me? Noooo.

    He's the life of the party.

    Troll...and dainty :-) Switches from blades to CB's because his hands hurt LOL :-D

    30 minutes for that comeback? C'mon, @dciccoritti ...

    Posted:
    Driver: M3 w. Tensei CK Pro Orange (60-TX)
    Fairways: M6 (3w / 5w / 7w)
    Irons: 716 CB 3-P
    Wedges: SM6 53-F / 60-S
    Putter: Newport 2 Select
  • dpb5031dpb5031 Jupiter, FL 5550Members Posts: 5,550
    Joined:  #135

    @MelloYello said:

    @dpb5031 said:
    @MelloYello , what's your HC again?

    Right now I'm sitting at an 8 and I'll be honest, I feel like I'm just above being a hack.

    I had a rough start to the season with several rounds that included some truly awful putting (41 putts!) so in January when I started keeping track I was up at like a 15. Over the last couple months I've ironed some of that out. Driving is reasonably good. It has potential. Putting is improved but still not where it needs to be for me to consider myself a "good" golfer. I'm hitting 60% of my fairways and 50% of my GIR on a relatively tough course (137 slope). I'm still giving away a stroke or two per round on relatively short putts that (in all fairness) have no business missing.

    So as putting continues to improve and I settle into my driver swing which just keeps getting better I hope to bring my handicap down to about 5 by end-of-year. Right now I'm starting to shoot respectable numbers on the regular which should definitely do that. Last few rounds have been 77, 78, 80 and 81 so that's definitely getting there.

    Like I said, I just need to clean up the putting and make sure to avoid the random double that is sneaking its way in. There's still one hole per round where I pull the wrong club on an approach just being dumb as I try to force something. That 80 above included a quad for instance. That just doesn't need to be there, you know? Fairway metal tee shot went OB fast, I tried to bite off about 200 with my 2nd to get most of the way there and found a bush. Had to punch out and then chip on. From there it was just a total disaster.

    @dpb5031 said:
    Your signature indicates Titleist 716 CBs in 3-PW.

    That's accurate.

    @dpb5031 said:
    Maybe dump the 3 & 4 irons for some GI hybrids? Consistent with your posturing, most recreational players have no business carrying a 3 iron...and the 716 CBs are not far off from most MB blades, certainly not much GI built into them...lol! Please explain

    Oh, God. That's terrible inference. I know you're joking but that's just stupid. I haven't said anything like that. I don't push anyone towards GI stuff in general. Remember, there are SGI, GI and Player's clubs. I put blades at the extreme end as a 4th type really.

    I don't push anyone away from Player's clubs though. In my experience that's where about 90% of serious recreational players ought to be. GI irons are actively trying to correct for some bad flaw and blades assume a perfect strike. Player's clubs are just a perfect middle ground. They reward good strikes but offer some help without assuming you're a hack.

    So IMHO, there's just no reason to go GI unless you need legit help getting the ball airborne. Nobody with a reasonably-refined swing needs to go to that extreme. YMMV.

    And besides, I'm not putting another club in the bag that I have to practice with, particularly one with a graphite shaft. I had 3-iron once yesterday from about 210 and hit center green with it. I had another on a super long Par-3 where I honestly probably needed an extra half-club, haha. I was stuck between 3i and 4w. I caught it slightly high on the face and had to chip from just short of the green but TBH, if that's the miss I'm happy (a blade likely would've been wet!). I'll take those all day long. There's no reason to believe I'm not fit with shots like those. Both were dead on line. I had a few 4-iron's last weekend at a different course and got similar results. I had no problem striping it on the 2-3 times I pulled it.

    So don't get me wrong, I certainly don't want to be hitting a 3- or 4-iron into any green but with the CB I know I can. Last year I had the 716 MB and those did me absolutely no favors. Anything less than perfect contact was bad.

    But hybrids? They're a different animal entirely. I don't think they lend themselves to greater accuracy unless the person struggles getting the ball in the air to begin with (which I don't).

    Yes, I was razzing you...all in good nature I might add...lol!!! Still, there's an element of truth to my comparison. I play my fair share of tournament golf and rarely see a 3 iron anymore. In fact, most guys my age (51) are using 5 iron as their longest iron, hybrids beyond that. And I'm talkin' scratch level tournament players who are often ex college players and definitely better than me. Granted, lofts are mostly stronger now, and we all have gap wedges, so our 5s are more like the old 4s, but you get my point...

    The same arguments you've made about higher caps playing blades applies to you (as an 8 HC) playing a 3 & 4 iron versus hybrids. Hybrids are easier to launch, carry further, have higher MOI, and are more forgiving thru the turf than their 3 & 4 iron counterparts. A bad shot with a hybrid is rarely as bad as an equivalently poor strike with a 3 or 4 iron.

    Now, if you want to argue that everyone's different, then don't the same arguments apply to the mid-cap guy who feels more confident with blades v. CBs?

    And BTW, your 716 CBs are really no more forgiving than some Mizuno MPs like the MP5s.

    Posted:
    USGA Index: ~1

    WITB:
    Ping G410 LST 9 degree - Tour AD IZ 6x
    Taylormade M2 Tour 15 Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73 
    Kasco K2K 33 - UST Axivcore 65 Tour Green 
    Callaway RazrX Tour 4h - Tour 95 shaft
    Ping i200 5-UW (2 flat) - Nippon Modus 105X
    Taylormade HiToe 54 (bent to 55 & 2 flat)
    Taylormade HiToe 64 (Bent to 62 & 2 flat)
    Palmer AP30R putter (circa 1960s)
    Taylormade TP5X Ball
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SC 3628Members Posts: 3,628
    Joined:  edited May 6, 2019 9:49pm #136

    @dpb5031 said:
    Yes, I was razzing you...all in good nature I might add...lol!!! Still, there's an element of truth to my comparison. I play my fair share of tournament golf and rarely see a 3 iron anymore. In fact, most guys my age (51) are using 5 iron as their longest iron, hybrids beyond that. And I'm talkin' scratch level tournament players who are often ex college players and definitely better than me. Granted, lofts are mostly stronger now, and we all have gap wedges, so our 5s are more like the old 4s, but you get my point...

    The same arguments you've made about higher caps playing blades applies to you (as an 8 HC) playing a 3 & 4 iron versus hybrids. Hybrids are easier to launch, carry further, have higher MOI, and are more forgiving thru the turf than their 3 & 4 iron counterparts. A bad shot with a hybrid is rarely as bad as an equivalently poor strike with a 3 or 4 iron.

    Now, if you want to argue that everyone's different, then don't the same arguments apply to the mid-cap guy who feels more confident with blades v. CBs?

    And BTW, your 716 CBs are really no more forgiving than some Mizuno MPs like the MP5s.

    Here's where I advocate a minimalist approach for the amateur (like me).

    I think you're right that if we looked objectively at what I can physically do with a 3-iron versus a similar hybrid, we'd see the hybrid extends my potential. On the range with unlimited balls and no concern w.r.t. misses, I would anticipate the "best" shot being one hit with the hybrid: better ball speed, launch, peak height, max carry, etc. I don't debate that. And from a physics standpoint we might even expect that it's more forgiving as well. Then again it's got a smaller face overall, so IDK.

    But as any player will tell you, there's forgiveness the way club designers talk about it and then there's forgiveness as it's understood by the player standing over the ball. I would call that trust.

    I used to have a 5w, for instance. I believed in this 5w like I never believed in any other club (before or since). It was my good luck club. Granted, I don't use it now but with the swing that I had then it was just perfect. It fit me like a glove. I could hit this from trouble and it was the one club I always seemed to be able to hit--good day or bad.

    That's what I would call...IDK...practical forgiveness.

    As an amateur that hits the range (at most) maybe 2-3 times per week (maybe none) in between 1-3 rounds on the weekends. I don't have time to master every single club that might theoretically help me out. The lateral mistake I'm going to make with the hybrid left and right is going to be relatively extreme in comparison to that of the iron.

    Here, the argument of the high-handicapper actually applies. I'm sympathetic to it if we're reducing the overall number of different club types that we carry. If I catch my 3-iron high on the face (as I did yesterday) I come up short but I'm smack on line short of the green chipping up for a par/bogey. As I said before, that's a miss I can afford. I also know the miss I'll have with the 3-iron...a weak shot high on the face or a weak shot off the toe. I can play around those misses.

    What I can't play around is a random 20-yd hook that comes out of nowhere or some out-of-the-blue big, high push that goes just as far in the opposite direction. While the hybrid might make my best shot 5-yds better (and a bit prettier) both of those misses are ungodly and yet they can easily happen if I'm swinging a club that I haven't practiced enough with.

    So I'm not saying I wouldn't play a hybrid if I were a more serious golfer. I probably would. But right now, it's better to simplify my bag as much as possible.

    1 driver
    1 fairway
    1 iron type
    1 set of matching wedges

    To me, that's HUGE. You ask me what I've learned as an amateur in 10 years of playing?

    SIMPLIFY. SIMPLIFY. SIMPLIFY.

    No way am I adding a 5th club type just for a possible gain in 4-5 yards carry. F that.

    That 3-iron may not be optimal on the range but for a 33-yo 8-handicap in good health it's not like I can't hit it adequately once or twice per round when it's called for. I hit it twice this Sunday. One time I hit center green on a normal Par-4. The other I had a predictable miss on a VERY tough Par-3 which is guarded by water short and right and a huge, deep bunker left. This hole sucks. You get on the tee and all you want is reasonably solid contact with a straight ball. Right is dead. Left is dead. Way short is dead. I missed in predictable fashion slightly short but cleared the hazard. I put an easy pitch to the middle of the green and missed a 4-footer to save par because I suck at golf.

    Posted:
    Driver: M3 w. Tensei CK Pro Orange (60-TX)
    Fairways: M6 (3w / 5w / 7w)
    Irons: 716 CB 3-P
    Wedges: SM6 53-F / 60-S
    Putter: Newport 2 Select
  • MyherobobhopeMyherobobhope hey there, blimpy boy. Flying through the sky so fancy free.  2413Members Posts: 2,413
    Joined:  #137

    @MelloYello said:
    SIMPLIFY. SIMPLIFY. SIMPLIFY.

    I think this is the heart of it... If you aren't dedicating everything you have to the game, you need to find any shortcuts you can... For me, not playing blades means I have to worry slightly less about my ball contact. I'm now thinking about dumping my hybrid too! (I hit long irons just fine, and rarely hit my hybrid on course cause I don't trust it)... I'm rebuilding my bag from the ground up this season, first thing I did was fill my largest gap (PW and GW) and now I'm figuring out my next step... I'm going to look for clubs I hit the most consistently... not the best.

    Posted:

    Current Bag (Rebuilding as of 5/6/19)
    Driver: Adams Fast 12 LS with Matrix Black Tie (to be replaced)
    3W: Adams Fast 12 with Excalibur (to be replaced)
    Hybrid: Bridgestone j40 with Excalibur (to be replaced)
    4-9: Taylor Made Oversize (to be replaced)
    PW: Mizuon HMP with DG120 Stiff (5/6)
    50 degree Vokey with DG120 Stiff (5/6)
    56 and 60 degree Cleveland Wedges (to be replaced)
    Odyssey Tank #7 (only club I'm keeping this season)

  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SC 3628Members Posts: 3,628
    Joined:  edited May 6, 2019 11:44pm #139

    LOL

    Say it with me everybody...

    ...he's TRIGGERED!

    hahahaha

    Posted:
    Driver: M3 w. Tensei CK Pro Orange (60-TX)
    Fairways: M6 (3w / 5w / 7w)
    Irons: 716 CB 3-P
    Wedges: SM6 53-F / 60-S
    Putter: Newport 2 Select
  • duffer987duffer987 I'm oot. Canadian in California 9417Members Posts: 9,417
    Joined:  #140

    @MelloYello said:
    LOL

    Say it with me everybody...

    ...he's TRIGGERED!

    hahahaha

    The scary thing is that you're in another human's head out IRL to the point they hit an awful golf shot... that's just sad.
    I'd hope everyone would be capable of leaving the forum, any forum, at their desk/device, eesh.

    Posted:
  • COL_BCOL_B Bryan 64Members Posts: 64
    Joined:  #141

    @MelloYello said:
    But as any player will tell you, there's forgiveness the way club designers talk about it and then there's forgiveness as it's understood by the player standing over the ball. I would call that trust.

    I used to have a 5w, for instance. I believed in this 5w like I never believed in any other club (before or since). It was my good luck club. Granted, I don't use it now but with the swing that I had then it was just perfect. It fit me like a glove. I could hit this from trouble and it was the one club I always seemed to be able to hit--good day or bad.

    That's what I would call...IDK...practical forgiveness.

    As an amateur that hits the range (at most) maybe 2-3 times per week (maybe none) in between 1-3 rounds on the weekends. I don't have time to master every single club that might theoretically help me out. The lateral mistake I'm going to make with the hybrid left and right is going to be relatively extreme in comparison to that of the iron.

    Here, the argument of the high-handicapper actually applies. I'm sympathetic to it if we're reducing the overall number of different club types that we carry. If I catch my 3-iron high on the face (as I did yesterday) I come up short but I'm smack on line short of the green chipping up for a par/bogey. As I said before, that's a miss I can afford. I also know the miss I'll have with the 3-iron...a weak shot high on the face or a weak shot off the toe. I can play around those misses.

    What I can't play around is a random 20-yd hook that comes out of nowhere or some out-of-the-blue big, high push that goes just as far in the opposite direction. While the hybrid might make my best shot 5-yds better (and a bit prettier) both of those misses are ungodly and yet they can easily happen if I'm swinging a club that I haven't practiced enough with.

    I think there is a lot to be said for this line of reasoning. Clubs I hit well on the range don't necessarily translate to the course, it part because the "big miss" doesn't stand out on the range. This can be an argument for blades over GI -- the question of CB vs blade seems more semantic, and depends on the CB. The Z765s I'm hitting are a lot more forgiving that the 714 AP2 I played previously - the tungsten seriously affects the MOI, even though the shape is similar to 716 CBs at address.

    The thing that may get me out of them is that they are almost "too forgiving" -- on a bad swing, they "reward" me with normal distance, but significantly offline -- which is great on a launch monitor, but is usually disaster on the course I play. A bad swing with a less forgiving club is a terrible shot off the launch monitor, but may put me in a better position for a recovery shot -- without the penalty stroke for yanking a ball into the trees.

    They also have the occasional result of nuking a well-struck ball 15 or more yards further than it should seem to go. With high MOI CBs like the Srixons, the variance on poorly hit balls seems to be less, but the variance on well struck shots seems to be more.

    I really don't need help with launch or distance -- I hit a high ball, and hit a 6 iron ~170 -- I'd trade a little distance for a little more backspin than the Srixons offer, and less dispersion on "good" shots. When I have a bad swing, no club design is going to "save" it.

    My heart is feeling Mizuno MP18 SC or 718 CBs. My head is saying most of the shots I am leaving on the course are penalties from terrible tee shots. Ironic since the driver is the only "fitted" club in my bag,

    Posted:
    Callaway Epic Flash 9* (+1); PX Hzrdus Yellow 6.0 63g
    Callaway Epic Sub Zero 15* (-1); PX Hzrdus Yellow 76g 6.0
    Srixon U65 18* Stiff (stock shaft)
    Titleist T-MB 4 Iron
    Titleist 718MB 5-PW; KBS Tour Lite 110 Stiff
    Titleist SM6 GW 50-12 F Grind
    Titleist SM6 SW 54-10
    Titleist SM6 LW 58-12 K Grind
    Odyssey 7S
    Titleist ProV1x
  • agolf1agolf1  1806Members Posts: 1,806
    Joined:  #142

    @MelloYello said:

    @dpb5031 said:
    Yes, I was razzing you...all in good nature I might add...lol!!! Still, there's an element of truth to my comparison. I play my fair share of tournament golf and rarely see a 3 iron anymore. In fact, most guys my age (51) are using 5 iron as their longest iron, hybrids beyond that. And I'm talkin' scratch level tournament players who are often ex college players and definitely better than me. Granted, lofts are mostly stronger now, and we all have gap wedges, so our 5s are more like the old 4s, but you get my point...

    The same arguments you've made about higher caps playing blades applies to you (as an 8 HC) playing a 3 & 4 iron versus hybrids. Hybrids are easier to launch, carry further, have higher MOI, and are more forgiving thru the turf than their 3 & 4 iron counterparts. A bad shot with a hybrid is rarely as bad as an equivalently poor strike with a 3 or 4 iron.

    Now, if you want to argue that everyone's different, then don't the same arguments apply to the mid-cap guy who feels more confident with blades v. CBs?

    And BTW, your 716 CBs are really no more forgiving than some Mizuno MPs like the MP5s.

    Here's where I advocate a minimalist approach for the amateur (like me).

    I think you're right that if we looked objectively at what I can physically do with a 3-iron versus a similar hybrid, we'd see the hybrid extends my potential. On the range with unlimited balls and no concern w.r.t. misses, I would anticipate the "best" shot being one hit with the hybrid: better ball speed, launch, peak height, max carry, etc. I don't debate that. And from a physics standpoint we might even expect that it's more forgiving as well. Then again it's got a smaller face overall, so IDK.

    But as any player will tell you, there's forgiveness the way club designers talk about it and then there's forgiveness as it's understood by the player standing over the ball. I would call that trust.

    I used to have a 5w, for instance. I believed in this 5w like I never believed in any other club (before or since). It was my good luck club. Granted, I don't use it now but with the swing that I had then it was just perfect. It fit me like a glove. I could hit this from trouble and it was the one club I always seemed to be able to hit--good day or bad.

    That's what I would call...IDK...practical forgiveness.

    As an amateur that hits the range (at most) maybe 2-3 times per week (maybe none) in between 1-3 rounds on the weekends. I don't have time to master every single club that might theoretically help me out. The lateral mistake I'm going to make with the hybrid left and right is going to be relatively extreme in comparison to that of the iron.

    Here, the argument of the high-handicapper actually applies. I'm sympathetic to it if we're reducing the overall number of different club types that we carry. If I catch my 3-iron high on the face (as I did yesterday) I come up short but I'm smack on line short of the green chipping up for a par/bogey. As I said before, that's a miss I can afford. I also know the miss I'll have with the 3-iron...a weak shot high on the face or a weak shot off the toe. I can play around those misses.

    What I can't play around is a random 20-yd hook that comes out of nowhere or some out-of-the-blue big, high push that goes just as far in the opposite direction. While the hybrid might make my best shot 5-yds better (and a bit prettier) both of those misses are ungodly and yet they can easily happen if I'm swinging a club that I haven't practiced enough with.

    So I'm not saying I wouldn't play a hybrid if I were a more serious golfer. I probably would. But right now, it's better to simplify my bag as much as possible.

    1 driver
    1 fairway
    1 iron type
    1 set of matching wedges

    To me, that's HUGE. You ask me what I've learned as an amateur in 10 years of playing?

    SIMPLIFY. SIMPLIFY. SIMPLIFY.

    No way am I adding a 5th club type just for a possible gain in 4-5 yards carry. F that.

    That 3-iron may not be optimal on the range but for a 33-yo 8-handicap in good health it's not like I can't hit it adequately once or twice per round when it's called for. I hit it twice this Sunday. One time I hit center green on a normal Par-4. The other I had a predictable miss on a VERY tough Par-3 which is guarded by water short and right and a huge, deep bunker left. This hole sucks. You get on the tee and all you want is reasonably solid contact with a straight ball. Right is dead. Left is dead. Way short is dead. I missed in predictable fashion slightly short but cleared the hazard. I put an easy pitch to the middle of the green and missed a 4-footer to save par because I suck at golf.

    I agree with your logic on simplifying your bag. I would like to move from fairway-hybrid to two fairways or two hybrids just to make the setup, swing, how the ball comes off the face the same.

    I also agree with many of your points about blades. However, regarding the 3-iron/4-iron, I'm not sure I agree. I had been playing with a 25* hybrid for a while but went back to the 25* 5-iron. I can come up with all kinds of justifications, and at the end of the day I don't think it impacts score much. I know there are situations where the hybrid would be better (elevated green, downhill lie, crappy lie in the rough), and conversely there are times when the iron is better (I found that I hit the green on a par 3 more with the iron, which probably isn't surprising given the shorter shaft when you have a clean lie/stance).

    But at the end of the day we stuck a less forgiving, harder to hit club in the bag, which doesn't fully match the basic premise of not flushing it = get more help.

    Of course, all of these club comparisons/choices have trade-offs and it's not a simple question to answer whether the benefits of the harder to hit club are worth it. Everyone would agree the benefits are there for Tiger Woods and his blades. Most would disagree that an average 20 handicap can benefit from the MBs. Between these goal posts it gets tricky.

    This is definitely a minority view, but I actually think more people in the say 6-12 index range would benefit from GI irons (know you use and think the players CBs match up better for this range). For any individual, we can talk about the looks, offset, sole width, ability to work the ball, etc, etc. But I think these players screw up a shot (i.e. miss the target somehow, someway) more often than not and more than we'd all like to admit. Fundamentally with regards to forgiveness, Players CB -> GI -> SGI -> Hybrid at 30* plus is the same argument. We all chose to stop somewhere for some personal reasons.

    Posted:
    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    PING G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    PING Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    PING Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  PING Eye 2+ (58*) or PING Eye 2 XG (60*)
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolina 28627Members Posts: 28,627
    Joined:  #143

    This thread is like going to Walmart.

    I instantly feel better about being me.

    Posted:
    Ping G410  11.2* Tensei pro OrangeV2 proto 70TX 
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  3- PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged  54 60 s400
    Cameron GSS 1.5 009. Sound slot,  tungsten weights. 


  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SC 3628Members Posts: 3,628
    Joined:  edited May 7, 2019 12:08am #144

    @bladehunter said:
    This thread is like going to Walmart.
    I instantly feel better about being me.

    Hahaha...that's accurate.

    Posted:
    Driver: M3 w. Tensei CK Pro Orange (60-TX)
    Fairways: M6 (3w / 5w / 7w)
    Irons: 716 CB 3-P
    Wedges: SM6 53-F / 60-S
    Putter: Newport 2 Select
  • sdandreasdandrea Steve  2490Members Posts: 2,490
    Joined:  #145

    Yes. I'm a 13 handicapper and I play shovels (Big Bertha). My handicap would go up if the size of my irons went down...............I have proven this.

    Posted:
    • Cobra FMax Superlite 11.5*
    • Cobra FMax Superlite 5w
    • Cobra FMax Superlite 5h, 6h, 7 -GW
    • Cobra FMax Superlite SW
    • Scotty Fastback 


  • dciccorittidciccoritti An inch an hour, 2 feet a day Toronto, Canada 1689Members Posts: 1,689
    Joined:  #146

    @sdandrea said:
    Yes. I'm a 13 handicapper and I play shovels (Big Bertha). My handicap would go up if the size of my irons went down...............I have proven this.

    You've proven this for yourself...not for others. My scoring went down and I don't even give blades all that much credit other than they are the ultimate GIGO irons on the market.

    Posted:

    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway

    • TS2
    • 716 MB 5-PW
    • MG 52 SB-09 | 56 LB-09 | 60 LB-09
    • Select Newport 2
    • ProV1x
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SC 3628Members Posts: 3,628
    Joined:  edited May 7, 2019 12:43am #147

    @agolf1 said:
    I agree with your logic on simplifying your bag. I would like to move from fairway-hybrid to two fairways or two hybrids just to make the setup, swing, how the ball comes off the face the same.

    @agolf1 said:
    I also agree with many of your points about blades. However, regarding the 3-iron/4-iron, I'm not sure I agree.

    Well, I've been keeping my stats so far this year. I've played about 450 holes of golf in total. When I survey my last 10 rounds I'm averaging just under 60% fairways hit and just above 50% GIR on a course with a slope rating of 137. I don't play the tips but I play from about 6,700-yds most of the time.

    Point is, what stats I've found suggest that I have a long game which is "stronger" than my overall 8-handicap.

    According to the stats, that kind of GIR% is indicative of a player that's 0-5 handicap. The fact I'm still sitting at an 8 is due almost entirely to my lackluster putting. In the beginning of the year I was basically putting like a 25- or 30-handicap statistically (****.com). It was atrocious next to the rest of my game.

    It's better now but it's still far from "good." I'm still for the most part not making anything outside of 6-ft so birdies are exceedingly rare unless off a particularly good wedge. My putting is decent but it's still costing me 3-4 strokes per round in the form of short misses, bad lag putts and fewer 10-ft birdies than a good putter ought to have.

    So in my particular case I think I'm a better-than-average iron player. I played with a couple of guys recently who are both low, single-digits and based on what they showed, my long iron played is every bit as good if not better.

    It's not like I haven't tried hybrids, I just haven't found one that is worth the increased effort. And at this point, I ain't really interested in looking. The only times when I'm regularly called upon to hit a 3- or 4-iron is on a long Par-3. So I'm hitting off a "perfect" lie.

    @agolf1 said:
    But at the end of the day we stuck a less forgiving, harder to hit club in the bag, which doesn't fully match the basic premise of not flushing it = get more help.

    Eh...that's not an accurate way to describe what I've done.

    I kept 3- and 4-irons (which are easy to launch off a tee mind you) largely because 80% of my shots with those clubs are on Par-3 holes where the irons will out-perform the hybrid by providing me a club I know I can launch well without being scared of going left/right.

    If I was hitting approaches from the fairway, I'd certainly care more about that hybrid and it's ability to elevate the ball!

    @agolf1 said:
    Of course, all of these club comparisons/choices have trade-offs and it's not a simple question to answer whether the benefits of the harder to hit club are worth it. Everyone would agree the benefits are there for Tiger Woods and his blades. Most would disagree that an average 20 handicap can benefit from the MBs. Between these goal posts it gets tricky.

    Yeah, I agree. My iron game is reasonably strong and I'll be the first to tell you that there's not a single shot I need to hit that I can't somehow produce with these CBs.

    @agolf1 said:
    This is definitely a minority view, but I actually think more people in the say 6-12 index range would benefit from GI irons (know you use and think the players CBs match up better for this range). For any individual, we can talk about the looks, offset, sole width, ability to work the ball, etc, etc. But I think these players **** up a shot (i.e. miss the target somehow, someway) more often than not and more than we'd all like to admit. Fundamentally with regards to forgiveness, Players CB -> GI -> SGI -> Hybrid at 30* plus is the same argument. We all chose to stop somewhere for some personal reasons.

    I play with a lot of people in that range. Virtually all my regular partners are in that range. One plays Mizzy CBs another Titleist CBs and another AP2's...the club they're using is not the thing that breeds inconsistency. I think they're all appropriately fit (at least to the point they shouldn't be worrying about it).

    GI are essentially "distance" irons. I don't think anyone needs to play that kind of technology unless they legitimately need help launching the ball and gaining more distance.

    To me, PCB are essentially "standard" golf clubs. I would start there and only go up or down based on finding a unique case. Blades might be appropriate to a really high-level player whereas the GI clubs might be useful for someone who has a particular deficiency in their swing that limits their physical ability to hit the ball.

    But 90% of those guys out there that are between 18- and 50-yo and who practice regularly enough to have a solid game...seems to me they ought to have a more or less standard club.

    If you want to err on the side of adding a little extra forgiveness there are lots of PCB designs that do that. I believe they're now trying to market these as "Player's Distance Irons." Then again if you want a CB that provides as much blade-esque response as possible there are good options there, too.

    Posted:
    Driver: M3 w. Tensei CK Pro Orange (60-TX)
    Fairways: M6 (3w / 5w / 7w)
    Irons: 716 CB 3-P
    Wedges: SM6 53-F / 60-S
    Putter: Newport 2 Select
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • Exactice808Exactice808 Just want to hit ball far and go find it...  4750Members Posts: 4,750
    Joined:  #148

    @dciccoritti said:

    @sdandrea said:
    Yes. I'm a 13 handicapper and I play shovels (Big Bertha). My handicap would go up if the size of my irons went down...............I have proven this.

    You've proven this for yourself...not for others. My scoring went down and I don't even give blades all that much credit other than they are the ultimate GIGO irons on the market.

    Funny...I feel the same way, when I lied to myself years ago playing old blades, My iron striking was great back then... YEAH RIGHT... and I could hit blades all day but my driver, putting and short game was terrible....YEAH RIGHT. MY whole swing sucked... but I lied to myself.

    Now fast forward to current, when the lowest index I had was a 7 it was due to learning consistency of strike, practicing about 2-3 times a week and playing at least once a week. The body understood tempo, I developed a consistent take away and understood ball flight characteristics. My Hdcp now is like a 14-16 why is that did my ball striking go bad...OMG its because I play blades thats the ONLY reason right.... ..... Or possibly because I dont practice anymore, now down to golf once a month at and 2 young children....that are my focus.... Yet when I have good days I can shoot single digits and when i bad days I can shoot 90's and 100's Yups switching to more forgiving clubs will make up for the lack of practice and on course play somehow..... its fact.. its more forgiving Ill shoot better........

    Posted:
    Titleist 915D3 
    TM M2v1 - 
    TM 18* M2 
    TM TP MC 4 & 5 PX 6.0 Rifles
    Cobra AMP Cell Pro 6-PW PX 6.0 Rifles
    Titleist SM5 Vokey50*/8*, 54*/10* & 58*/8* X100's
    Scotty Newport 2 33"
  • MtlJeffMtlJeff Montreal 28804Members Posts: 28,804
    Joined:  #149

    I genuinely find the subject interesting, I don't really want this to be blades vs cavities for the millionth time. I probably should've talked drivers more in the OP

    But like, i probably would not have considered the G400 max unless people here convinced me with near unanimous praise. I just didn't think it was designed for me, high spin and all that.

    But it's been a great driver. But I really wouldn't have looked at it based on how they marketed it

    So I guess it goes both ways a bit.

    Ironically my other driver is an F8+ at 8 degrees with an open face

    Posted:
    Cobra King F9 w/Fujikura Atmos TS Black 7
    Cobra King F9 w/Matrix Black Tie 80
    Callaway Apex 20 w/Diamana D+ 95
    Ping G410 4-SW w/S300
    Callaway MD 2.0 60 PM grind w/S300
    Odyssey O-works Red Tank #7
  • XHoop24XHoop24  1027Members Posts: 1,027
    Joined:  #150

    @MtlJeff - which driver are you currently playing? I see the sig is updated with G400 Max. Planning to play it all season or more the normal WRX switching?

    Posted:
    Srixon z785 9.5'
    TM RBZ Tour 3W 14.5'
    Ping G Hybrid - 18'
    Mizuno JPX 900 HM 4 Iron
    Mizuno JPX 900 Forged - 5-GW
    Titleist SM7 54' and 58' - S Grind
    Bobby Grace Tour Triple Diamond
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  • Exactice808Exactice808 Just want to hit ball far and go find it...  4750Members Posts: 4,750
    Joined:  edited May 7, 2019 1:05am #151

    @MtlJeff said:
    I genuinely find the subject interesting, I don't really want this to be blades vs cavities for the millionth time. I probably should've talked drivers more in the OP

    But like, i probably would not have considered the G400 max unless people here convinced me with near unanimous praise. I just didn't think it was designed for me, high spin and all that.

    But it's been a great driver. But I really wouldn't have looked at it based on how they marketed it

    So I guess it goes both ways a bit.

    Ironically my other driver is an F8+ at 8 degrees with an open face

    In all fairness it always does..... Hey Jeff I got a **** wrench questions.

    How does one quantify ability? What do I mean, When I didnt have my 2 & 4 year olds I would get to the range 2-3 times a week put in good honest practice. Work on both short game as well as long game. I get to play at least once a week to edify and work on a legit handicap. As I stated prior I got down to a 7 on a consistent basis. And then the first kid was born.....then the second kid...... current years....non practice, once a month golf and I shot 80 a month ago and shot 89 yesterday.

    Where do we draw that line, or what do YOU think is an appropriate marker that would dictate clubs for X ability?

    Lets (get away from the MB vs X)
    Lets do a G410 45.75" vs M6 45.75" vs TS 2 45.5"
    Vs Taking an ultra forgiving driver and cutting it down period to at least a 45" or even a 44.5" Is the 1+" worth the dispersion?
    Its funng when we talk about forgiving... But one thing that I have noticed the move to make the driver longer. would it be better to try and Cut a driver per say as most heads are pretty forgiving now days? As the intent is ball speed right? YET if we are not getting 1.5 smash, it means we are not getting the most efficient ball speed we can?

    These longer drivers I have to assume are half the cause of the lower smash factors?
    in all fairness... what is the difference of a 100mph SS but 1.45 vs 1.5 smash.... 5mph of ball speed...

    Sure with the 1/2" - 3/4" you may squeeze out a couple extra yards but Im sure the dispersion has gotten worse?

    Posted:
    Titleist 915D3 
    TM M2v1 - 
    TM 18* M2 
    TM TP MC 4 & 5 PX 6.0 Rifles
    Cobra AMP Cell Pro 6-PW PX 6.0 Rifles
    Titleist SM5 Vokey50*/8*, 54*/10* & 58*/8* X100's
    Scotty Newport 2 33"
28

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