Rebuilding swing and time it takes

After completely losing my swing last fall I had to rebuild it completely as if I was a first time player and it's been tough. Working with my pro we tried a lot of different practice drills, some successful others not so much. The one(s) that really helped were similar to Sean Clement's 'cutting the dandelions drill' where you swing very freely to about parallel and then release down thru the ball to the opposite club position. This, and another similar drill, have finally allowed me to start hitting the ball effectively again and are used not only at the range but also as a warm up swing during a round or even as a swing or sorts when my swing isn't working as well as I'd like. It's been a very trying 6 months learning to essentially learning to swing again, but I'm starting to see the light and able to play again. It's not over yet as I still don't have full speed back but it's showing great progress and I'm excited again to play and practice. Rebuilding your swing is incredibly frustrating and it takes a lot of time and effort but hopefully it's all worth it. We'll see I guess.

Im about 18 months into a rebuild. It takes time

I'm two years into mine and it's definitely coming good at last. Currently having to revisit my irons and my accuracy with mid irons and wedges needs work but my driver and hybrids are going really well. Almost every drive today went fairly straight and well over 200 yards (used to average 190). Only the penultimate drive showed my typical fade.

I've gone from being a short hitter to average and I know once the swing is properly ingrained I can get more from it. Just don't want to push it until it's become the new 'me' - probably another six months work :)

Best wishes JimB! Keep at it and persevere.

I made a dreadful mistake back in 2012 after taking my first lessons and finally allowing someone to teach me a sport rather than learn it myself like all the other ones. I was obsessed with the backswing and got that part down pretty good but I never took any notice of the lower body requirements in the downswing. After my 6 lessons were done I worked my a** off and wasted 3 years 'perfecting' a swing with no weight shift or balanced finish. I could pick the ball off the turf nicely (divots a rare sight) and got my cap down to 13 even though I had zero lower body action. My swing was all arms, overly quick and VERY hard on the lower back.

It was back pain and intense frustration with skulling that forced me to seek out a complete re-haul. I wanted to get better and there was no way forward using my back-destroying arm swing. Instead of doing the sensible thing and enlisting a swing coach right away I thought "I got most of it down, should be easy to figure out the rest using available reference material" and away I went to get working on my new swing right away. This led to 3 years of the most frustrating golf of my life. I went from 2nd place overall finish in my league to dead last the next season. Seemed like my arm swing was not going to die without an invasive lobotomy on my golf brain.

Fast forward to early 2018 and I was like "that's enough, I might kill myself if this doesn't improve" and I got in touch with a great coach (Jordan Fletcher) and started work on swing change part II - The Real Deal. We Immediately began on lower body swing elements, mainly pushing into the ground with my rear leg on the backswing (I used to roll my rear foot in order to complete the big shoulder turn) and planting forward to begin the downswing. Rather than firing my arms down from the top we switched to swinging with my torso thru impact with my arms just along for the ride. Early last season (May) in league play I was shooting upper 90s but by the time we were in our final few tournaments (September) I was on fire, winning two of the final three (shooting 80 for each win) and finishing 2nd overall.

Safe to say that right now I'm enjoying the game like never before. Hit my personal best scores earlier this year (+7 followed by +6 two weeks later) and I'm totally geeked to play as much as I can so one day I can finally declare that my dreaded arm swing is dead and gone. I look back and have to laugh now at how much time and effort (and range balls) I wasted doing it all wrong...regret is wasteful so let's get on with it! I'm a divot machine now, wooo-hoooo!

Redoing a swing ! Make sure you're learning a fundamentally sound swing .

Edward hit it on the head... using the lower body is key... very few instructors either know how to teach this or underrate its importance.

I have been working on plane & path for 3 years. Was able to create some decent shots and mediocre scores with what I thought was an OK swing . Well it turns out to be an over the top move (upper body)that will not allow any better ball striking no matter what else I do

Decided to take some realistic measures and understand that I need to use lower body Correctly. When I started all I heard was "bump hips" to start down - never seemed to work for me.

The idea of pivot and Transfer Pressure seems to resonate to the point where I can see light at the end of the tunnel . At times it seems so simple as is often said a throwing motion - can't throw properly without a pressure shift.

It's going to be an interesting season. Good luck to all - many ways to describe an athletic motion - you need to FEEL how your swing works correctly

You motivate me OP, thank you.

Jimb; I went thru several swing rebuilds in the golf quest. I had been playing only 2-3x/year from age 17-24. No swing ideas, complete hacker with only a runner's and weights training for athletics background. 25-34, played double that at 6x/year using same swing, same horrid results. In my late 30's, I found a swing videos/book idea called the _Heard Super Swing_. Tried this well into my 40's, golfing 1x/mo. some times. Results slightly better than no methodology.

About 11 years or so, I decided to cry uncle on all my former outdoor chases of fish and wild places more for golf which was more convenient to me - played multiple times each month and now each week. With back injury concerns and motive to play better, I tried the Don Trahan 3/4 limited turn _PPGS method_ for about 5-6 seasons. I really improved my irons and hybrids, was no good with the driver, and did not hurt the back. But it seemed lacking, and as I had already joined WRX in 2010, was looking for more. Plus, that swing killed my left elbow, often.

So, my last rebuild and final is the transition from that Trahan to _Shawn Clement_. I couldn't be more pleased with my ball striking. I don't hurt anything, yet my distance is longer than ever well into my 50's. Had my first HIO couple of weeks ago - 175 yds. to an uphill pin into 10mph.

These are two radical different intents of a golf swing. Shorter and compact to more open and free flowing. There had to be at least 12-16mos. of weird results in there where some swings had wow shots of great to horrible. IMHO, you can't go wrong in the Clement camp.

I am 1 year in to mine... All time best index was a 0.2 have been hovering around 5-7 for last several years after a massive life change (career, kids, etc). I used to play a minimum 150+ rounds a year. Now I am lucky to get 20. Realized I couldn't work with my old action playing as infrequently as I was.

Started last April working daily in the backyard each night.

The last month it has started to really work on the course. Nearly a solid year of at least 5 days per week practice. The last three rounds I have averaged 13 greens and shot 73/76/74.

If I had the time to work short game that I used to, I can already tell that I would be much better than I used to be.

@jimb6golf good on you for your efforts

@ebrasmus21 's thread is epic. Video and discussion over time.

It will take a LONG time to get through but if you read a bit when you log in here you will make progress, increase your understanding of the process and desire.

Good luck!

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1595868/ebrasmus21-club-championship-time/p1

FWIW this link can help you get back to threads you may have been reading previously.

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussions/participated

I've been on mine for around 18 months now, and yes it takes a long time. Old habits die hard as they say.

I'm approaching 1 year (11 months) since I attended one of Monte's clinics and have been working on the hardest changes. My right (trail) hand grip was very weak and have been working hard on a strong grip. It's a continuous battle to make sure it doesn't creep back to weak. I also am a hip stall/flipper, which has gotten better with the work i've put it.

I've been seeing some good progress at times and improvements in my ball flight and scores, but still have the occasional regression.

As the cliche goes 'two steps forward, one step back' - that really describes trying to fix your golf swing. Just when I 'feel' the correct movement I suddenly lose it. Last week's round was ok, but really lacked any good shots until very late in the round, just couldn't get the feel of the new swing and reverted alot to my old swing (yuck). A sore back didn't help matters either (and it's still sore sitting at work). Repetition and lessons are the only cure I guess, but sometimes the frustration is overwhelming especially if I practice the correct swing mechanics a lot. I'll keep trying as there are some positives but wish it could happen faster. I'm getting old waiting for my swing to improve.

I'm about a month into learning to swing a golf club after playing for years with many, many bad habits. My long game has come completely off the rails. It's very frustrating to fight through all my terrible shots during a round. As soon as I go back to see my teaching pro, he fixes me. But, if he's not standing there yelling at me things like "flatter wrist", "don't overturn", "less tension in your elbow", etc. then I have an incredibly hard time finding the right positions. The whole process has made me realize that my kinesthetic intelligence is lacking. Without video or someone watching me, I do not know what positions I'm putting myself into with any accuracy.

Also, I have no idea how anyone made true swing changes on their own in the days before video. Mirrors would've been the best alternative I suppose.

I'm 14 months into my swing change - working with Brian Kelly at tOSU Golf Club to transition to the Jimmy Ballard methodology (there are two good threads here about JB). Last season ended pretty well but this season started off rough - I am a 6.6 index and shot my first rounds of 89 and 90, and a 49 in a 9 hole golf league. Brian has helped right the ship and get me headed in the correct direction again - too much scar tissue with my old swing and those tendencies creep in and wreak havoc with what I'm trying to do (he did mention that it typically 5 years for a complete swing overhaul for most amateurs). My problem now is short game and putting - it's always something :)

The sad thing about changing your swing is that it not only takes a lot of time to accomplish but now I'm finding that my chipping is suffering as I'm not spending time with that part of the game. And as my full swing has certain aspects that are very different from chipping it unfortunately carries over (both ways actually). Tough game and even tougher to change your swing

jimb6golf, short swings blend into full swings.

Once you grasp the concept of throwing the weight of the club head it doesn't take long to develop the feel.

This is a drill to get the feel. Set up like you're going to pitch an imaginary ball. 95%+ of your weight on your left foot, free up your right foot by lifting your right heel off the ground.

Waggle the club back and forth over the imaginary ball. Use your right hand to throw the club head past the imaginary ball. Do Not try to power the club with your pivot. The pivot reacts to the hand action. Watch/feel your right foot, knee and rest of the right side react to the throw. They are being pulled into impact and the through swing by the weight of the club head. Throw it as hard as you want, the harder you throw it the more your right side from the ground up reacts.

The waggle is the genesis of the motion, in a bigger motion you add the pivot to sync up the body, arms and club.

Ben Hogan pitching and chipping essentially using his waggle to control the action.

Where your hands go your arms go and where your body goes your arms go. In a golf swing the hands swing the club and the body swings the arms.

Exactly 1 year into my current swing change... Just shot my best score in 10 years -2 70.

The last time I shot that I was playing 150ish rounds a year. This year I have played 9. It is a testament to why I decided to go through the pain.

I am doing things now I never did before, and now that I can focus on the shot I want to hit instead of focusing on trying to do something in my swing, I can really sense good scoring coming.

I'm 3 years into this and can say I wasted at least half of that. Quality reps is a key and so is honing in on the right thing to work on which were two things I did not give enough attention to. Even when you do those, progress is not linear but there's enough to keep it motivating and rolling. Considering I have a stacked life outside of golf and really have little actual time to meander on the course, I've done okay and can see the benefit of the effort on every swing now and quality of play. The mindset needs to be one of running a marathon or saving for retirement, long term. Index in the short is not really a great barometer, raised floor of misses and ceiling of good is a fairer way to judge things. Imperative to get a good process going and then trust it.

Monte told us at his clinic, expect even just small changes to take anywhere from 3-6 months - and that's with practicing it quite often. Not only that, but we tend to revert to our old/bad habits when the pressure is on... I would assume it takes even longer for a totally new motor pattern to become what's essentially muscle memory.

I would imagine a larger swing change could possibly take years to really ingrain into your brain.

> @Z1ggy16 said:

> Monte told us at his clinic, expect even just small changes to take anywhere from 3-6 months - and that's with practicing it quite often. Not only that, but we tend to revert to our old/bad habits when the pressure is on... I would assume it takes even longer for a totally new motor pattern to become what's essentially muscle memory.

>

> I would imagine a larger swing change could possibly take years to really ingrain into your brain.

I had an old pro tell me.

" First you will be able to do it by yourself. Then with friends. Then with strangers. Then in a tournament."

I find this true, the mental interference from external and internal pressure is a huge hurdle at each step that must be cleared. 1 year into this s and I am arriving at stage 2.

It's taken a LONG time but my swing is finally getting better. And with each round I feel a little better about what should happen and an feeling good contact again. Old swing still creeps in but it's all getting better. Cannot believe how long it takes to feel a new swing and change from old habits. Coaching and perseverance party of in the end. Starting to enjoy it all again.

> @jimb6golf said:

> It's taken a LONG time but my swing is finally getting better. And with each round I feel a little better about what should happen and an feeling good contact again. Old swing still creeps in but it's all getting better. Cannot believe how long it takes to feel a new swing and change from old habits. Coaching and perseverance party of in the end. Starting to enjoy it all again.

I bet you were a pretty good player with your old swing, and unless you went through a full body makeover, I bet your new swing has a lot of elements of your old swing combined with a fresh, new mindset. Enjoy!

@Nard_S ‘s point about learning what you’re really trying to do is right on target imo, except I actually don’t think it’s wasted time but an essential part of the learning curve, as is learning how to practice and train efficiently. It takes a while to fully accept new feels because they contradict your old ‘swing system’ and there’s a period of confusion - how does the new stuff all fit together?

Slow motion and feedback... essential. Highly recommend mirror vision. Do it right in slow motion is more helpful than doing it wrong at full speed. But I also always am going back and forth, slow then fast to see how I am doing.

I have just hit a new level after a long, long time. The question I am mulling is, is that that enough? Maybe I’m done trying to dramatically improve. I can shoot in mid-70’s from 6500. (That’s my ceiling now.) I don’t know. I’ve never had any period of time with my golf game where I wasn’t discontent with it...but now... it seems different. I think now I’m just going to refine and refine what I have in place, so i can shoot those mid-70’s more consistently. Raising that ceiling - say, scratch - wow, that sounds like work!

I'm almost 3 years into my swing change. My coach/pro was amazing. He told me flat out: "you can play OK with that hook, shoot under par now and again and be a solid player...Or we can fix the path and the big fault and get you on a good long term path"

Using video I bet I've only fixed my shoulder dip/tilt by 2-3 inches over that time span but I hit it cleaner, the ball curves less and I can keep all my clubs on the planet.

THAT BEING SAID:

I can hit silky butter cuts on the range. I can even bring it to a casual round and make it work..But in a tournament I 100 percent revert back to what I know and end up playing a slinger hook most of the time. Its a frustrating and hard journey. I couldnt imagine a Pro making a huge drastic change.