Golf Digest 2019-2020 public rankings.

245

Comments

  • az2auaz2au Members Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Argonne69 said:

    @mci711 said:

    @BG5 said:
    I have played 25 of the top 100 courses. With that being said there are plenty of other courses that I have played that should be on the list. There are prob 5 that need to be taken off the list as well and this really comes down to the good ole boy club. In many cases its all about who you know. There are obvious courses that need to be on the list but then there are some that will leave you scratching your head

    I think Arizona is the most misrepresented and I don't get it. Quintero is the only course listed, and it has a trash layout, maybe a top 5 course in the Scottsdale area. How We-ko-pa or Southern Dunes isn't listed is unbelievable. I'd have We-Ko-Pa Saguaro pushing top 35.

    I was thinking the same thing, but looking at the Best in State lists for Arizona, it appears that Quintero has climbed above those other courses. 'Very odd. The golfing masses appear to have fallen in love with Quintero.

    It is really pretty. That clouds many people's ability to objectively rate golf courses. The 8th hole there is one of the worst designed par 5s I've played. Also, people seem to have a fascination with hitting a golf ball off of a cliff (see hole 9 which is a terrible par 3). I have many, many other quibbles with it as well but those are the two most obvious.

  • Argonne69Argonne69 Members Posts: 21,988 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    My beef with Quintero is not the fact that it has a nice elevated par 3, but that it has four nearly identical elevated par 3s. If I recall correctly, I hit the same club on each one.

  • az2auaz2au Members Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Argonne69 said:
    My beef with Quintero is not the fact that it has a nice elevated par 3, but that it has four nearly identical elevated par 3s. If I recall correctly, I hit the same club on each one.

    In fairness to the course, I actually think that the last par 3 (16), which is somewhat elevated is one of the better holes on the course. There's a prevailing left to right wind and the shot really wants you to hit a draw.
    13 is a flat par 3 that is a brute from the back tees but it is a hole you've seen 1000 times.

  • PuttLeftHitRightPuttLeftHitRight Members Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Quintero - greens are kept hard on purpose. Gorgeous course, but yeah some of it is just dumb. Not top 100 in my book.

  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @PuttLeftHitRight said:
    Quintero - greens are kept hard on purpose. Gorgeous course, but yeah some of it is just dumb. Not top 100 in my book.

    Maybe that's because you use different criteria than magazines use.

  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    This list is in order by how I rank the 37 courses I have played on the GD list;

    1 PEBBLE BEACH G. LINKS, Pebble Beach, Calif.
    3 WHISTLING STRAITS (STRAITS), Haven, Wis.
    9 ERIN HILLS G. CSE., Erin, Wis.
    10 SPYGLASS HILL G. CSE., Pebble Beach, Calif.
    29 MANELE GOLF COURSE, Lanai City, Lanai, Hawaii
    37 PRONGHORN CLUB (NICKLAUS), Bend, Ore.
    39 THE BROADMOOR G.C. (EAST), Colorado Springs, Col.
    4 THE OCEAN COURSE(3) THE OCEAN COURSE, Kiawah Island, S.C.
    13 ARCADIA BLUFFS G.C., Arcadia, Mich.
    76 RED SKY RANCH & GC (FAZIO), Wolcott, Colo.
    78 RED SKY G.C. (NORMAN), Wolcott, Colo.
    15 BLACKWOLF RUN (RIVER), Kohler, Wis.
    26 MAUNA KEA G. CSE, Kohala Coast, Hawaii
    85 OMNI BARTON CREEK RESORT & SPA (FAZIO CANYONS), Austin, Tex.
    83 PELICAN HILL G.C. (OCEAN SOUTH), Newport Coast, Calif.
    11 TPC SAWGRASS (PLAYERS STADIUM), Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla.
    25 THE OMNI HOMESTEAD RESORT (CASCADES), Hot Springs, Va.
    49 PGA WEST (TPC STADIUM), La Quinta, Calif.
    62 CASCATA, Boulder City, Nev.
    75 TRUMP NATIONAL DORAL MIAMI (BLUE MONSTER), Doral, Fla.
    86 HUALALAI G. CSE., Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
    81 POPPY HILLS G. CSE., Pebble Beach, Calif.
    6 PINEHURST RESORT (No. 2), Pinehurst, N.C.
    50 PAA-KO RIDGE G.C., Sandia Park, N.M.
    43 WHISTLING STRAITS (IRISH), Haven, Wis.
    53 WOLF CREEK G.C., Mesquite, Nev.
    97 POIPU BAY, Koloa, Kauai, Hawaii
    18 SAND VALLEY, Nekoosa, Wis.
    36 TORREY PINES G. CSE. (SOUTH), La Jolla, Calif.
    16 PASATIEMPO G.C., Santa Cruz, Calif.
    28 FOREST DUNES G.C., Roscommon, Mich.
    48 THE LINKS AT SPANISH BAY, Pebble Beach, Calif.
    51 COG HILL G. & C.C. (NO. 4 - DUBSDREAD), Lemont, Ill.
    65 MAKAI G.C. (MAKAI), Kauai, Hawaii
    82 WORLD WOODS G.C. (PINE BARRENS), Brooksville, Fla.
    100 INNISBROOK GOLF RESORT (COPPERHEAD), Palm Harbor, Fla.
    27 MAMMOTH DUNES, Nekoosa, Wis.

  • mci711mci711 ChicagoMembers Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Roadking2003 said:
    This list is in order by how I rank the 37 courses I have played on the GD list;

    I really want to get out to Red Sky. Those courses look really cool. Not the easiest place to get to though. One day.

  • elwhippyelwhippy Members Posts: 3,233 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    As a Brit I have to laugh at this list. I play at a very good private club. Including county and national levies and a locker rent my fees are £700 / $910. Guinness is $4 a pint. I am playing a links tomorrow ranked in the top 100 in UK&I. For £25 off their medal tees. Some of these US courses are so expensive as to be as exclusive as a private club. Playing the top 10, including travel, accommodation and fees would cost an absolute fortune. Considering the PGA Tour bought the entire Sawgrass site for $1 the green fee for the TPC is pure theft and nothing else.

  • aiyyeraiyyer Members Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @CDM said:

    @bu11dog said:
    Because I'm in NC, I always tend to look at those courses first.

    Interesting that Tobacco Road (52) was ranked ahead of Pinehurst #8 (64), Pine Needles (79), and Mid Pines (91). Personally, I prefer all 3 of those courses over Tobacco Road.

    100% agree with that statement having played them all.

    Curious that Pinehurst #4 dud not make the list?

  • CDMCDM Members Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @elwhippy said:
    As a Brit I have to laugh at this list. I play at a very good private club. Including county and national levies and a locker rent my fees are £700 / $910. Guinness is $4 a pint. I am playing a links tomorrow ranked in the top 100 in UK&I. For £25 off their medal tees. Some of these US courses are so expensive as to be as exclusive as a private club. Playing the top 10, including travel, accommodation and fees would cost an absolute fortune. Considering the PGA Tour bought the entire Sawgrass site for $1 the green fee for the TPC is pure theft and nothing else.

    Oooooo there is no denying our prices Vs ranking is crazy.

  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @mci711 said:

    @Roadking2003 said:
    This list is in order by how I rank the 37 courses I have played on the GD list;

    I really want to get out to Red Sky. Those courses look really cool. Not the easiest place to get to though. One day.

    We stayed in Beaver Creek which is a 2+ hour drive from DEN. Lots of good courses in that area.

  • CDMCDM Members Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @aiyyer said:

    @CDM said:

    @bu11dog said:
    Because I'm in NC, I always tend to look at those courses first.

    Interesting that Tobacco Road (52) was ranked ahead of Pinehurst #8 (64), Pine Needles (79), and Mid Pines (91). Personally, I prefer all 3 of those courses over Tobacco Road.

    100% agree with that statement having played them all.

    Curious that Pinehurst #4 dud not make the list?

    Maybe to early to when it opened or most reviewers where done?

  • TUGolfer06TUGolfer06 Members Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 12, 2019 9:33pm #44

    Played a few and will likely knock a couple more off this year(Tobacco Road, Bethpage Black).
    (13) Arcadia Bluffs; played May 5th 2016, absolutely loved the course/experience!
    (73) The Virtues Club; played July 2018. I was not overly impressed. The layout was nice but nothing truly memorable imo. The conditions were solid but certainly not what I would expect for a Top 100 course. With that said, I kind of want to play it again.
    (74) Bulle Rock; played back in 2010. I thought it was excellent. I favored the back 9 a little more iirc. I'd like another crack at it.
    I think Taconic and Bedford Springs are worth consideration. Likewise the Links of North Dakota.

    Home Courses
    - Country Club of Scranton
    - Seven Oaks GC at Colgate University
  • PureGolf313PureGolf313 Members Posts: 64 ✭✭

    @Roadking2003 said:
    This list is in order by how I rank the 37 courses I have played on the GD list;

    1 PEBBLE BEACH G. LINKS, Pebble Beach, Calif.
    3 WHISTLING STRAITS (STRAITS), Haven, Wis.
    9 ERIN HILLS G. CSE., Erin, Wis.
    10 SPYGLASS HILL G. CSE., Pebble Beach, Calif.
    29 MANELE GOLF COURSE, Lanai City, Lanai, Hawaii
    37 PRONGHORN CLUB (NICKLAUS), Bend, Ore.
    39 THE BROADMOOR G.C. (EAST), Colorado Springs, Col.
    4 THE OCEAN COURSE(3) THE OCEAN COURSE, Kiawah Island, S.C.
    13 ARCADIA BLUFFS G.C., Arcadia, Mich.
    76 RED SKY RANCH & GC (FAZIO), Wolcott, Colo.
    78 RED SKY G.C. (NORMAN), Wolcott, Colo.
    15 BLACKWOLF RUN (RIVER), Kohler, Wis.
    26 MAUNA KEA G. CSE, Kohala Coast, Hawaii
    85 OMNI BARTON CREEK RESORT & SPA (FAZIO CANYONS), Austin, Tex.
    83 PELICAN HILL G.C. (OCEAN SOUTH), Newport Coast, Calif.
    11 TPC SAWGRASS (PLAYERS STADIUM), Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla.
    25 THE OMNI HOMESTEAD RESORT (CASCADES), Hot Springs, Va.
    49 PGA WEST (TPC STADIUM), La Quinta, Calif.
    62 CASCATA, Boulder City, Nev.
    75 TRUMP NATIONAL DORAL MIAMI (BLUE MONSTER), Doral, Fla.
    86 HUALALAI G. CSE., Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
    81 POPPY HILLS G. CSE., Pebble Beach, Calif.
    6 PINEHURST RESORT (No. 2), Pinehurst, N.C.
    50 PAA-KO RIDGE G.C., Sandia Park, N.M.
    43 WHISTLING STRAITS (IRISH), Haven, Wis.
    53 WOLF CREEK G.C., Mesquite, Nev.
    97 POIPU BAY, Koloa, Kauai, Hawaii
    18 SAND VALLEY, Nekoosa, Wis.
    36 TORREY PINES G. CSE. (SOUTH), La Jolla, Calif.
    16 PASATIEMPO G.C., Santa Cruz, Calif.
    28 FOREST DUNES G.C., Roscommon, Mich.
    48 THE LINKS AT SPANISH BAY, Pebble Beach, Calif.
    51 COG HILL G. & C.C. (NO. 4 - DUBSDREAD), Lemont, Ill.
    65 MAKAI G.C. (MAKAI), Kauai, Hawaii
    82 WORLD WOODS G.C. (PINE BARRENS), Brooksville, Fla.
    100 INNISBROOK GOLF RESORT (COPPERHEAD), Palm Harbor, Fla.
    27 MAMMOTH DUNES, Nekoosa, Wis.

    So you like a bunch of bulldozed, stripped/rebuilt land courses by Dye & Fazio, you can keep it. I will tell you right now it looks like you have not been to Bandon, save your money as I am willing to bet you will not like those courses.

  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @PureGolf313 said:
    So you like a bunch of bulldozed, stripped/rebuilt land courses by Dye & Fazio, you can keep it. I will tell you right now it looks like you have not been to Bandon, save your money as I am willing to bet you will not like those courses.

    Absolutely! I love Fazio courses. Thanks for the advice, but I plan to play Bandon anyway.

  • SMcGavin1SMcGavin1 Members Posts: 119 ✭✭

    @Roadking2003 said:
    This list is in order by how I rank the 37 courses I have played on the GD list;

    1 PEBBLE BEACH G. LINKS, Pebble Beach, Calif.
    3 WHISTLING STRAITS (STRAITS), Haven, Wis.
    9 ERIN HILLS G. CSE., Erin, Wis.
    10 SPYGLASS HILL G. CSE., Pebble Beach, Calif.
    29 MANELE GOLF COURSE, Lanai City, Lanai, Hawaii
    37 PRONGHORN CLUB (NICKLAUS), Bend, Ore.
    39 THE BROADMOOR G.C. (EAST), Colorado Springs, Col.
    4 THE OCEAN COURSE(3) THE OCEAN COURSE, Kiawah Island, S.C.
    13 ARCADIA BLUFFS G.C., Arcadia, Mich.
    76 RED SKY RANCH & GC (FAZIO), Wolcott, Colo.
    78 RED SKY G.C. (NORMAN), Wolcott, Colo.
    15 BLACKWOLF RUN (RIVER), Kohler, Wis.
    26 MAUNA KEA G. CSE, Kohala Coast, Hawaii
    85 OMNI BARTON CREEK RESORT & SPA (FAZIO CANYONS), Austin, Tex.
    83 PELICAN HILL G.C. (OCEAN SOUTH), Newport Coast, Calif.
    11 TPC SAWGRASS (PLAYERS STADIUM), Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla.
    25 THE OMNI HOMESTEAD RESORT (CASCADES), Hot Springs, Va.
    49 PGA WEST (TPC STADIUM), La Quinta, Calif.
    62 CASCATA, Boulder City, Nev.
    75 TRUMP NATIONAL DORAL MIAMI (BLUE MONSTER), Doral, Fla.
    86 HUALALAI G. CSE., Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
    81 POPPY HILLS G. CSE., Pebble Beach, Calif.
    6 PINEHURST RESORT (No. 2), Pinehurst, N.C.
    50 PAA-KO RIDGE G.C., Sandia Park, N.M.
    43 WHISTLING STRAITS (IRISH), Haven, Wis.
    53 WOLF CREEK G.C., Mesquite, Nev.
    97 POIPU BAY, Koloa, Kauai, Hawaii
    18 SAND VALLEY, Nekoosa, Wis.
    36 TORREY PINES G. CSE. (SOUTH), La Jolla, Calif.
    16 PASATIEMPO G.C., Santa Cruz, Calif.
    28 FOREST DUNES G.C., Roscommon, Mich.
    48 THE LINKS AT SPANISH BAY, Pebble Beach, Calif.
    51 COG HILL G. & C.C. (NO. 4 - DUBSDREAD), Lemont, Ill.
    65 MAKAI G.C. (MAKAI), Kauai, Hawaii
    82 WORLD WOODS G.C. (PINE BARRENS), Brooksville, Fla.
    100 INNISBROOK GOLF RESORT (COPPERHEAD), Palm Harbor, Fla.
    27 MAMMOTH DUNES, Nekoosa, Wis.

    Pinehurst No. 2 had too many good holes? Lol

  • PureGolf313PureGolf313 Members Posts: 64 ✭✭

    @Roadking2003 said:

    @PureGolf313 said:
    So you like a bunch of bulldozed, stripped/rebuilt land courses by Dye & Fazio, you can keep it. I will tell you right now it looks like you have not been to Bandon, save your money as I am willing to bet you will not like those courses.

    Absolutely! I love Fazio courses. Thanks for the advice, but I plan to play Bandon anyway.

    It is just funny how much personal preference plays into a list My list of what I have played would almost be reverse, I left Whistling straights feeling like I was just robbed of $600 Bucks. Yes the views were great but it was so contrived and brutal it is completely overdone, and the only Fazio course I have ever felt was pure was Pine Barrons. Was not meaning to knock you we are just on two different spectrums of taste. Interested to hear what you liked so much about Erin Hills?

  • mci711mci711 ChicagoMembers Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @PureGolf313 said:

    @Roadking2003 said:

    @PureGolf313 said:
    So you like a bunch of bulldozed, stripped/rebuilt land courses by Dye & Fazio, you can keep it. I will tell you right now it looks like you have not been to Bandon, save your money as I am willing to bet you will not like those courses.

    Absolutely! I love Fazio courses. Thanks for the advice, but I plan to play Bandon anyway.

    It is just funny how much personal preference plays into a list My list of what I have played would almost be reverse, I left Whistling straights feeling like I was just robbed of $600 Bucks. Yes the views were great but it was so contrived and brutal it is completely overdone, and the only Fazio course I have ever felt was pure was Pine Barrons. Was not meaning to knock you we are just on two different spectrums of taste. Interested to hear what you liked so much about Erin Hills?

    The price/value shouldn't be a factor in the best courses. It sounds like Whistling Straits beat you up and you didn't like spending $600 to not score well? I loved Bandon Dunes, but the courses there are all pretty easy. I thought Old Mac is the hardest by far. If the weather is calm the courses are quite tame. To me, Bandon is by far the best golf resort in the country. That being said, Whistling Straits is still great and is easy for people to pick on because it is "too hard" "expensive" and a Pete Dye course.

  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @PureGolf313 said:
    It is just funny how much personal preference plays into a list My list of what I have played would almost be reverse, I left Whistling straights feeling like I was just robbed of $600 Bucks. Yes the views were great but it was so contrived and brutal it is completely overdone, and the only Fazio course I have ever felt was pure was Pine Barrons. Was not meaning to knock you we are just on two different spectrums of taste. Interested to hear what you liked so much about Erin Hills?

    I agree. Golf course rankings are totally subjective. If you look at all of the magazine rankings, they all use different criteria.
    I'm not too concerned about how a course got where it is and who designed it. I'm more interested in the result. My goal is to enjoy the course, so everything that detracts or contributes to enjoying a course influences my ranking.
    Hosting tour events, and especially majors, makes a course more attractive to me. I love playing a course that I've watched the pros play. Erin Hills has that attraction. There is a plaque 299 yards from the 18th green where Justin Thomas hit his 3-wood up by the pin and made eagle. We all dropped a ball there and gave it a whack. EH has very good caddies so that added to the experience. And obviously, the variety of holes with doglegs, uphill, downhill, short holes long holes makes the course design special.

    The next time you are in Austin you should play the two Fazio courses at Barton Creek. They might change your mind about Fazio.

  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Another element of course rankings is time. Most of us only play these courses once. Most of us never sit down afterward and evaluate each hole from an architectural view. And if we played a course 15 years ago, we are relying on memory.

  • mci711mci711 ChicagoMembers Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Roadking2003 said:
    Another element of course rankings is time. Most of us only play these courses once. Most of us never sit down afterward and evaluate each hole from an architectural view. And if we played a course 15 years ago, we are relying on memory.

    For me, a good course is usually memorable. The more holes I remember, usually the better the course for me. I have only played Bethpage Black once, but can mentally walk through each hole.

  • FairwayFredFairwayFred Sponsors Posts: 4,104 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13, 2019 10:33pm #53

    @Roadking2003 said:

    @PureGolf313 said:
    It is just funny how much personal preference plays into a list My list of what I have played would almost be reverse, I left Whistling straights feeling like I was just robbed of $600 Bucks. Yes the views were great but it was so contrived and brutal it is completely overdone, and the only Fazio course I have ever felt was pure was Pine Barrons. Was not meaning to knock you we are just on two different spectrums of taste. Interested to hear what you liked so much about Erin Hills?

    I agree. Golf course rankings are totally subjective. If you look at all of the magazine rankings, they all use different criteria.
    I'm not too concerned about how a course got where it is and who designed it. I'm more interested in the result. My goal is to enjoy the course, so everything that detracts or contributes to enjoying a course influences my ranking.
    Hosting tour events, and especially majors, makes a course more attractive to me. I love playing a course that I've watched the pros play. Erin Hills has that attraction. There is a plaque 299 yards from the 18th green where Justin Thomas hit his 3-wood up by the pin and made eagle. We all dropped a ball there and gave it a whack. EH has very good caddies so that added to the experience. And obviously, the variety of holes with doglegs, uphill, downhill, short holes long holes makes the course design special.

    The next time you are in Austin you should play the two Fazio courses at Barton Creek. They might change your mind about Fazio.

    The problem here is your not really ranking the course so much as your ranking your experience at that course on the day you happened to be there which is not the same thing. (wait, have I made this point before?)

    A perfect example, it's very nice you had great caddies at Erin Hills. Unfortunately that's not always the experience that people will have. When I played EH for the first time I had easily a top 5 bad caddy experience for me. Completely awful. However I was able to seperate a bad caddy from the golf course which I really enjoyed and have subsequently been back a few more times. I just chose to carry my own bag those times. It's not the golf courses fault that I had a bad caddy. Much the same way that many things about your experience will not be consistently replicated by other people who visit on different days, years etc.

    Another example there was another time at a top 10 course when I had another of what I would consider a top 5 bad caddy experience. Then I went back 6 months later, had the exact same caddy and had an absolutely wonderful experience. (I recognized him but I don't think he had any idea we had ever met and I didn't mention it to him) Apparently he was having a REALLY bad day the first time.

    The magazines and others that do course rankings all do have very different criteria and people's rankings on those criteria are completely subjective. Yet I don't know one of them that considers things like how your caddy was that day or other things like that.

    Also, interestingly enough despite the different criteria most of the rankings seem to shake out in a similar enough way.

    Lastly I do think you will really like Bandon, even if the courses are not your style it is right on the ocean, has amazing views and is a really fun, unique, golf centric experience.

    Post edited by FairwayFred on
    FREE AGENT CLUB HO NO MO!
    Ari Techner
    National Custom Works nationalcustomworks.com
    [email protected]
    IG: @nationalcustom
    Twitter: @WorksNational
    (still a huge club HO)
  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @FairwayFred said:

    Lastly I do think you will really like Bandon, even if the courses are not your style it is right on the ocean, has amazing views and is a really fun, unique, golf centric experience.

    Some of my favorite courses are Royal County Down, Turnberry, Waterville, and Muirfield. If Bandon is similar, I'm sure I will enjoy it.

  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @FairwayFred said:
    The problem here is your not really ranking the course so much as your ranking your experience at that course on the day you happened to be there which is not the same thing. (wait, have I made this point before?)

    And yet the magazines also use some criteria that can change from week to week. Specifically, conditioning which as we know varies quite a bit throughout the year and even from year to year.

    For example, one Golf Digest criteria is "How firm, fast and rolling were the fairways, and how firm yet receptive were the greens on the day you played the course?"

    And Golf Magazine says they have NO criteria, so raters might be using course conditioning or anything else such as caddies or the locker room.

    Golfweek magazine also uses course conditions. "Variety of playing textures; extent of turf coverage; consistency and quality of bunker sand; delineation of tees/fairways/roughs/collars and chipping areas (beyond day-to-day changes because of weather, aerification, overseeding or repairs)." Obviously, "extent of turf coverage" can vary from year to year.

  • FairwayFredFairwayFred Sponsors Posts: 4,104 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Roadking2003 said:

    @FairwayFred said:

    Lastly I do think you will really like Bandon, even if the courses are not your style it is right on the ocean, has amazing views and is a really fun, unique, golf centric experience.

    Some of my favorite courses are Royal County Down, Turnberry, Waterville, and Muirfield. If Bandon is similar, I'm sure I will enjoy it.

    I find the biggest difference between Bandon and the great links of GB&I like you mention is width off the tee. Bandon is really really wide "to accommodate the varied wind conditions" where I have never thought the courses over in GB&I are wide in fact sometimes the opposite. Despite being as windy or windier. Similar in style, visual look and turf conditions but much more width. You could play for a few days at Bandon w the same ball if your hitting it well and avoid the gorse where as that would be very hard to do for a few days of golf in GB&I. Will be interested to see what you think when you do make it there. I'm interested to see the new Sheep Ranch course I've spent many a day out there on the old course and what a piece of property!

    FREE AGENT CLUB HO NO MO!
    Ari Techner
    National Custom Works nationalcustomworks.com
    [email protected]
    IG: @nationalcustom
    Twitter: @WorksNational
    (still a huge club HO)
  • FairwayFredFairwayFred Sponsors Posts: 4,104 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2019 3:34am #57

    @Roadking2003 said:

    @FairwayFred said:
    The problem here is your not really ranking the course so much as your ranking your experience at that course on the day you happened to be there which is not the same thing. (wait, have I made this point before?)

    And yet the magazines also use some criteria that can change from week to week. Specifically, conditioning which as we know varies quite a bit throughout the year and even from year to year.

    For example, one Golf Digest criteria is "How firm, fast and rolling were the fairways, and how firm yet receptive were the greens on the day you played the course?"

    And Golf Magazine says they have NO criteria, so raters might be using course conditioning or anything else such as caddies or the locker room.

    Golfweek magazine also uses course conditions. "Variety of playing textures; extent of turf coverage; consistency and quality of bunker sand; delineation of tees/fairways/roughs/collars and chipping areas (beyond day-to-day changes because of weather, aerification, overseeding or repairs)." Obviously, "extent of turf coverage" can vary from year to year.

    Golf Digest also tells panelists to take into account if there has been rain and if it's been excessively wet and use that info for the ranking. So it's supposed to be based on what you know about recent weather and how the course has handled it.

    Same with Golf Week. From your quote:
    "beyond day-to-day changes because of weather, aerification, overseeding or repairs".

    It's up to the rater to use an educated opinion based on what they know. If it's been dry and has not rained and the course is wet, lush and green then obviously that course would not get a great rating for that catagory from GD. On the other hand if it's rained a bunch lately and the course has handled it well, it's not overly saturated the ball is bouncing a little that course would get a very good rating in that catagory from GD.

    It's not completely based on what you saw that day you need to take into account external factors that effect it day to day. You can't expect a course your playing that has been closed all winter to be perfect in the spring like you would in the summer or early fall. Likewise you can't expect a course in a hot area to be perfect in the summer if that's when you happen to play it. Anyone that is a rater should have the experience and knowledge to understand this and use this info in their rankings.

    Also I'd hope we can agree that conditions will change less day to day and visit to visit than your experience with your caddy. Atleast it's the same course your seeing, more than likely you will have a different caddy the next time you go.

    Post edited by FairwayFred on
    FREE AGENT CLUB HO NO MO!
    Ari Techner
    National Custom Works nationalcustomworks.com
    [email protected]
    IG: @nationalcustom
    Twitter: @WorksNational
    (still a huge club HO)
  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @FairwayFred said:

    @Roadking2003 said:

    @FairwayFred said:

    Lastly I do think you will really like Bandon, even if the courses are not your style it is right on the ocean, has amazing views and is a really fun, unique, golf centric experience.

    Some of my favorite courses are Royal County Down, Turnberry, Waterville, and Muirfield. If Bandon is similar, I'm sure I will enjoy it.

    I find the biggest difference between Bandon and the great links of GB&I like you mention is width off the tee. Bandon is really really wide "to accommodate the varied wind conditions" where I have never thought the courses over in GB&I are wide in fact sometimes the opposite. Despite being as windy or windier. Similar in style, visual look and turf conditions but much more width. You could play for a few days at Bandon w the same ball if your hitting it well and avoid the gorse where as that would be very hard to do for a few days of golf in GB&I. Will be interested to see what you think when you do make it there. I'm interested to see the new Sheep Ranch course I've spent many a day out there on the old course and what a piece of property!

    Unfortunately, I won't get to Bandon until Sept 2020. I'm booked for golf trips over the next 12 months.

  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @FairwayFred said:

    Golf Digest also tells panelists to take into account if there has been rain and if it's been excessively wet and use that info for the ranking. So it's supposed to be based on what you know about recent weather and how the course has handled it.

    Same with Golf Week. From your quote:
    "beyond day-to-day changes because of weather, aerification, overseeding or repairs".

    It's up to the rater to use an educated opinion based on what they know. If it's been dry and has not rained and the course is wet, lush and green then obviously that course would not get a great rating for that catagory from GD. On the other hand if it's rained a bunch lately and the course has handled it well, it's not overly saturated the ball is bouncing a little that course would get a very good rating in that catagory from GD.

    It's not completely based on what you saw that day you need to take into account external factors that effect it day to day. You can't expect a course your playing that has been closed all winter to be perfect in the spring like you would in the summer or early fall. Likewise you can't expect a course in a hot area to be perfect in the summer if that's when you happen to play it. Anyone that is a rater should have the experience and knowledge to understand this and use this info in their rankings.

    Also I'd hope we can agree that conditions will change less day to day and visit to visit than your experience with your caddy. Atleast it's the same course your seeing, more than likely you will have a different caddy the next time you go.

    I don't use a formula, but I'm sure my individual caddy has very little, if any, impact on my rating. What I do note, however, is that a course has professional caddies like Erin Hills, Sand Valley, and Old Head, as opposed to the schoolboys we had at one course in Ireland (I think it was Portmarnock).

  • FairwayFredFairwayFred Sponsors Posts: 4,104 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Mom> @Roadking2003 said:

    @FairwayFred said:

    @Roadking2003 said:

    @FairwayFred said:

    Lastly I do think you will really like Bandon, even if the courses are not your style it is right on the ocean, has amazing views and is a really fun, unique, golf centric experience.

    Some of my favorite courses are Royal County Down, Turnberry, Waterville, and Muirfield. If Bandon is similar, I'm sure I will enjoy it.

    I find the biggest difference between Bandon and the great links of GB&I like you mention is width off the tee. Bandon is really really wide "to accommodate the varied wind conditions" where I have never thought the courses over in GB&I are wide in fact sometimes the opposite. Despite being as windy or windier. Similar in style, visual look and turf conditions but much more width. You could play for a few days at Bandon w the same ball if your hitting it well and avoid the gorse where as that would be very hard to do for a few days of golf in GB&I. Will be interested to see what you think when you do make it there. I'm interested to see the new Sheep Ranch course I've spent many a day out there on the old course and what a piece of property!

    Unfortunately, I won't get to Bandon until Sept 2020. I'm booked for golf trips over the next 12 months.

    Your better off anyways the new course will be open by then and you can play them all. Would be a shame to miss the new course if your only going once.

    FREE AGENT CLUB HO NO MO!
    Ari Techner
    National Custom Works nationalcustomworks.com
    [email protected]
    IG: @nationalcustom
    Twitter: @WorksNational
    (still a huge club HO)
  • FairwayFredFairwayFred Sponsors Posts: 4,104 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Roadking2003 said:

    @FairwayFred said:

    Golf Digest also tells panelists to take into account if there has been rain and if it's been excessively wet and use that info for the ranking. So it's supposed to be based on what you know about recent weather and how the course has handled it.

    Same with Golf Week. From your quote:
    "beyond day-to-day changes because of weather, aerification, overseeding or repairs".

    It's up to the rater to use an educated opinion based on what they know. If it's been dry and has not rained and the course is wet, lush and green then obviously that course would not get a great rating for that catagory from GD. On the other hand if it's rained a bunch lately and the course has handled it well, it's not overly saturated the ball is bouncing a little that course would get a very good rating in that catagory from GD.

    It's not completely based on what you saw that day you need to take into account external factors that effect it day to day. You can't expect a course your playing that has been closed all winter to be perfect in the spring like you would in the summer or early fall. Likewise you can't expect a course in a hot area to be perfect in the summer if that's when you happen to play it. Anyone that is a rater should have the experience and knowledge to understand this and use this info in their rankings.

    Also I'd hope we can agree that conditions will change less day to day and visit to visit than your experience with your caddy. Atleast it's the same course your seeing, more than likely you will have a different caddy the next time you go.

    I don't use a formula, but I'm sure my individual caddy has very little, if any, impact on my rating. What I do note, however, is that a course has professional caddies like Erin Hills, Sand Valley, and Old Head, as opposed to the schoolboys we had at one course in Ireland (I think it was Portmarnock).

    That's a very good point. There is definitely a difference between a place with professional, adult caddies and a place with kids as caddies which is very common where I live.

    FREE AGENT CLUB HO NO MO!
    Ari Techner
    National Custom Works nationalcustomworks.com
    [email protected]
    IG: @nationalcustom
    Twitter: @WorksNational
    (still a huge club HO)

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