Lead Shoulder Down and Lead Arm at Transition...

So I've had three different instructors talk about the lead shoulder down and forward at transition, and my question has to do with the lead arm during this motion. Is the purpose of lead shoulder down and forward to act like a fulcrum from which the lead arm travels down and away from the body before the lead shoulder makes its way around and up? Or does the lead arm stay back until the lead shoulder goes around and up...?

Arms stay up and the left arm stays pinned to the left pec. If your left arm doesn’t come off your chest around p6, your sequencing is off ie more than likely you are powering your swing with your shoulders and they aren’t decelerating

To me , left shoulder down is a steepening move to balance the arm shallowing. Necessary to regain flexion and helps with pressure transfer. It does support lead arm adduction and adds a bit more lead arm pronation both of which are shallowing arm movements. That is, if you have the patience to not pull down immediately in transition. It also sets up being able to push with the lead leg up and away from the target through release. Lead arm staying back, to me, sounds like a pinning movement especially if you keep it until the shoulder starts going up and back.

this seems to be a movement I've heard being taught a lot more in recent times, I'm not sure if it's because instructors starting to see it on 3d data or what but I never really heard it taught much until a few years ago. The first time I did hear it taught was a long time ago by Jim Hardy, he would use this move occasionally with Peter J. because he was getting too much secondary tilt but he warned to not over do it, practice it for a time and stop.

Its only for the start of the transition to drop your hands n arms into the slot (returning to the setup position) before accelerating and releasibg through impact.

My experience is to not over do it, its only there briefly to get your upperbody into the right position. Arms still need to accelerate aggressively.

The pros and better players do this move not because they were taught. They do it instinctively due to the lag they can generate. If you don't lower the left shoulder you would miss the ball completely if you had their lag. High handicappers need to keep their left shoulder higher to accommodate their early release. Dropping left shoulder and releasing early doesn't match up.

You wouldn't teach good players to do this because they probably already do it. You would teach this move to try and fix early releasers. Would you tell Sergio Garcia he needs to drop his left shoulder more to start his downswing? You would only teach it to players who need it.

Thanks for the responses; I think that answers my question. I've been trying to reconcile Monte's new Efficient Swing ideas with his older stuff, i.e., left arm off chest, lead with the right elbow, etc. It appears that lead shoulder down is another way to give the lead arm time to catch up?

> @PepsiDuck said:

> Thanks for the responses; I think that answers my question. I've been trying to reconcile Monte's new Efficient Swing ideas with his older stuff, i.e., left arm off chest, lead with the right elbow, etc. It appears that lead shoulder down is another way to give the lead arm time to catch up?

>

I tend to think of "lead shoulder down" as a thought to prevent tilting too soon and dumping the club under plane which could move your low point too far back.

> @PepsiDuck said:

> Thanks for the responses; I think that answers my question. I've been trying to reconcile Monte's new Efficient Swing ideas with his older stuff, i.e., left arm off chest, lead with the right elbow, etc. It appears that lead shoulder down is another way to give the lead arm time to catch up?

>

That may be a bi-product but the main reason is this, so you can regain flexion and maintain your tilts such that you can properly extend into impact. If you don't do this properly likely are EEing. If you are looking to compare it to older material, I would say it most parallels the zipper away move, just explained differently. Very hard to do the zipper away without the left shoulder going down as well and vice versa.

> @glk said:

> To me , left shoulder down is a steepening move to balance the arm shallowing. Necessary to regain flexion and helps with pressure transfer. It does support lead arm adduction and adds a bit more lead arm pronation both of which are shallowing arm movements. That is, if you have the patience to not pull down immediately in transition. It also sets up being able to push with the lead leg up and away from the target through release. Lead arm staying back, to me, sounds like a pinning movement especially if you keep it until the shoulder starts going up and back.