Terry Koehler - 'The' Wedge Guy or 'A' Wedge Guy?

archer1archer1 Members Posts: 135 ✭✭

I am a Brit and I think if you asked many UK golfers to name someone famous in wedge design, the answers would not go beyond Bob Vokey and Roger Cleveland. Through WRX I know of Mike Taylor but I am not sure he is a real designer (i.e. someone who starts with a blank CAD screen). I think of him more as a shaper (i.e. someone who works, in his case 'magic', with a forged blank). Which brings me to my question re Terry Koehler.

In the US, is this chap really famous in the world of wedge design?

He is not shy about detailing his experience which, while extensive, does not seem to be quite first class. I have to add that when I read his Golf WRX articles, I am always a touch disappointed in the sense I was expecting more. Hence I really would like to know what the US Golf WRX members think of him.

My appreciation in advance of any and all responses.

Comments

  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members Posts: 3,416 ✭✭

    @archer1 said:
    I am a Brit and I think if you asked many UK golfers to name someone famous in wedge design, the answers would not go beyond Bob Vokey and Roger Cleveland. Through WRX I know of Mike Taylor but I am not sure he is a real designer (i.e. someone who starts with a blank CAD screen). I think of him more as a shaper (i.e. someone who works, in his case 'magic', with a forged blank). Which brings me to my question re Terry Koehler.

    In the US, is this chap really famous in the world of wedge design?

    He is not shy about detailing his experience which, while extensive, does not seem to be quite first class. I have to add that when I read his Golf WRX articles, I am always a touch disappointed in the sense I was expecting more. Hence I really would like to know what the US Golf WRX members think of him.

    My appreciation in advance of any and all responses.

    No, he's not. And his latest article was awful.

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  • cgasuckscgasucks Members Posts: 2,185 ✭✭

    To most people, just A guy who wants to be a Bob Vokey or Roger Cleveland. But to me, he's the guy that revived (and abandoned) Ben Hogan Golf.

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  • Bad9Bad9 Members Posts: 4,215 ✭✭

    @pinestreetgolf said:

    @archer1 said:
    I am a Brit and I think if you asked many UK golfers to name someone famous in wedge design, the answers would not go beyond Bob Vokey and Roger Cleveland. Through WRX I know of Mike Taylor but I am not sure he is a real designer (i.e. someone who starts with a blank CAD screen). I think of him more as a shaper (i.e. someone who works, in his case 'magic', with a forged blank). Which brings me to my question re Terry Koehler.

    In the US, is this chap really famous in the world of wedge design?

    He is not shy about detailing his experience which, while extensive, does not seem to be quite first class. I have to add that when I read his Golf WRX articles, I am always a touch disappointed in the sense I was expecting more. Hence I really would like to know what the US Golf WRX members think of him.

    My appreciation in advance of any and all responses.

    No, he's not. And his latest article was awful.

    You're not kidding. That was bad. He must be getting ready to look for some more start up capital to spend. I'm trying to figure out if he meant this line is sarcasm or if he thinks people will forget if his revived Hogan line trumpeted lofts rather than numbers on the sole of clubs as a game changer in equipment. "Did you know that the 1930s was also the decade that witnessed one of the greatest contributions to modern golf clubs, the numbered and matched set of irons?"

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  • gvogelgvogel Members Posts: 7,315 ✭✭

    @Bad9 said:

    @pinestreetgolf said:

    @archer1 said:
    I am a Brit and I think if you asked many UK golfers to name someone famous in wedge design, the answers would not go beyond Bob Vokey and Roger Cleveland. Through WRX I know of Mike Taylor but I am not sure he is a real designer (i.e. someone who starts with a blank CAD screen). I think of him more as a shaper (i.e. someone who works, in his case 'magic', with a forged blank). Which brings me to my question re Terry Koehler.

    In the US, is this chap really famous in the world of wedge design?

    He is not shy about detailing his experience which, while extensive, does not seem to be quite first class. I have to add that when I read his Golf WRX articles, I am always a touch disappointed in the sense I was expecting more. Hence I really would like to know what the US Golf WRX members think of him.

    My appreciation in advance of any and all responses.

    No, he's not. And his latest article was awful.

    You're not kidding. That was bad. He must be getting ready to look for some more start up capital to spend. I'm trying to figure out if he meant this line is sarcasm or if he thinks people will forget if his revived Hogan line trumpeted lofts rather than numbers on the sole of clubs as a game changer in equipment. "Did you know that the 1930s was also the decade that witnessed one of the greatest contributions to modern golf clubs, the numbered and matched set of irons?"

    Well, in all fairness, in the 19teens and 1920's people bought mashies, mashie niblicks, deep face mashies, jiggers, mid-irons, and they didn't necessarily match.

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  • IvyguyIvyguy Members Posts: 1,441 ✭✭

    I mean, SCOR and the TK wedge lines were really good. There was some innovation there for sure.

    On the Mt. Rushmore of wedges..... I dunno about that.

    I think if TK is in that conversation, then the Artisan guys, JP and David Edel are there too.

  • Bad9Bad9 Members Posts: 4,215 ✭✭

    @Ivyguy said:
    I mean, SCOR and the TK wedge lines were really good. There was some innovation there for sure.

    On the Mt. Rushmore of wedges..... I dunno about that.

    I think if TK is in that conversation, then the Artisan guys, JP and David Edel are there too.

    I don't know if Koehler was involved but the sole on the SCOR and Hogan wedges was done by Zero Tolerance Golf back in the 90's. Their 58° Z Wedge was the best lob wedge I ever used.

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  • toctoc Members Posts: 2,760 ✭✭

    I haven't read any articles beyond the first one or two when the headline mentioned something about wedge fitting and the main thrust of the article was a rather vanilla "hit different wedges, see what works best for you." Expertise indeed.

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  • cmagnussoncmagnusson Members Posts: 401 ✭✭

    Have any of his articles been good?

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  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members Posts: 3,416 ✭✭
    edited May 16, 2019 12:40am #10

    Edited.

    Post edited by pinestreetgolf on
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  • SwingBladeSwingBlade SoCalMembers Posts: 877 ✭✭
    edited May 15, 2019 11:14pm #11

    Don’t understand some of the the snarky responses above. Considering that the article in question was targeting players who don’t know a whole lot about wedges, particularly wedges from maybe 58 to 64, I thought he gave an excellent overview and advice for those folks. What exactly were you guys looking for him to say? Is there some delusion regarding the extent to which newer golfers or golfers with no in depth curiosity about wedge design have any any real appreciation for club making history from the 1930’s to the 1980’s? These derogatory postings seemed more like grudges or personal attacks rather than objective commentary.

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  • srksisrksi Members Posts: 54 ✭✭
    edited May 16, 2019 12:33am #12

    And Phil Rodgers?

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  • dciccorittidciccoritti An inch an hour, 2 feet a day Toronto, CanadaMembers Posts: 1,554 ✭✭

    @pinestreetgolf said:

    @SwingBlade said:
    Don’t understand some of the the snarky responses above. Considering that the article in question was targeting players who don’t know a whole lot about wedges, particularly wedges from maybe 58 to 64, I thought he gave an excellent overview and advice for those folks. What exactly were you guys looking for him to say? Is there some delusion regarding the extent to which newer golfers or golfers with no in depth curiosity about wedge design have any any real appreciation for club making history from the 1930’s to the 1980’s? These derogatory postings seemed more like grudges or personal attacks rather than objective commentary.

    He didn't give anything. He parroted conventional golf wisdom that may, or may not, be true. Then added a caveat at the end that if you practice you'll get better. Why in the world would going from 58 to 60 make any difference? Who knows. Just something "he's observed". What does that even mean? He's watched a ton of high caps with 58s and a ton with 60s and the 60 group is demonstrably worse!??!

    We come to WRX for experts' takes on issues. If you have a column called "The Wedge Guy" I'm going to be disappointed when the entire article is a copy and pasted wikipedia page on the history of the flange followed by "don't play anything over 58 without practicing it first." (<- I'd suggest you probably shouldn't play a 58 without practicing with it first, either).

    Well I don't always agree with PSG but I do here.
    "Try as many wedges as you can and see what works for you"...wait what????

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  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,104 ✭✭

    He’s basically known for a few niche brands over the years. Reid Lockhart I believe. Scor and then the revival of Hogan. He’s really a one trick pony with his wedge grind. It’s a good grind for some but not everyone. He is only known in small circles. The average guy wouldn’t know him. Vokey is well known, Cleveland, and some engineers from Ping. Although some might think of Karsten Solheim himself, although most of those guys are over 50


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  • grm24grm24 Western PAMembers Posts: 3,088 ✭✭

    @dlygrisse said:
    He’s basically known for a few niche brands over the years. Reid Lockhart I believe. Scor and then the revival of Hogan. >

    Eidolon as well.

  • archer1archer1 Members Posts: 135 ✭✭

    Pinestreet Golf and dciccoritti, I thank you especially for your posts.

  • mahoniemahonie Members Posts: 2,422 ✭✭

    @pinestreetgolf said:

    @SwingBlade said:
    Don’t understand some of the the snarky responses above. Considering that the article in question was targeting players who don’t know a whole lot about wedges, particularly wedges from maybe 58 to 64, I thought he gave an excellent overview and advice for those folks. What exactly were you guys looking for him to say? Is there some delusion regarding the extent to which newer golfers or golfers with no in depth curiosity about wedge design have any any real appreciation for club making history from the 1930’s to the 1980’s? These derogatory postings seemed more like grudges or personal attacks rather than objective commentary.

    He didn't give anything. He parroted conventional golf wisdom that may, or may not, be true. Then added a caveat at the end that if you practice you'll get better. Why in the world would going from 58 to 60 make any difference? Who knows. Just something "he's observed". What does that even mean? He's watched a ton of high caps with 58s and a ton with 60s and the 60 group is demonstrably worse!??!

    We come to WRX for experts' takes on issues. If you have a column called "The Wedge Guy" I'm going to be disappointed when the entire article is a copy and pasted wikipedia page on the history of the flange followed by "don't play anything over 58 without practicing it first." (<- I'd suggest you probably shouldn't play a 58 without practicing with it first, either).

    Roger Cleveland also said the same thing that nobody but the best short game players should play anything above 58* due to the exponential amount of clubhead speed and quality of strike that is needed to gain any benefit from the higher loft.

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  • RogerinNewZealandRogerinNewZealand Members Posts: 2,351 ✭✭

    I loved the large number who got Fitted in to 46 50 54 60ish full sets of Score all hyped up...and sold em soon after for 30 cents in the dollar.Real Infomercial Stuff.

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  • kiwihackerkiwihacker Members Posts: 707 ✭✭

    @pinestreetgolf said:

    @SwingBlade said:
    Don’t understand some of the the snarky responses above. Considering that the article in question was targeting players who don’t know a whole lot about wedges, particularly wedges from maybe 58 to 64, I thought he gave an excellent overview and advice for those folks. What exactly were you guys looking for him to say? Is there some delusion regarding the extent to which newer golfers or golfers with no in depth curiosity about wedge design have any any real appreciation for club making history from the 1930’s to the 1980’s? These derogatory postings seemed more like grudges or personal attacks rather than objective commentary.

    He didn't give anything. He parroted conventional golf wisdom that may, or may not, be true. Then added a caveat at the end that if you practice you'll get better. Why in the world would going from 58 to 60 make any difference? Who knows. Just something "he's observed". What does that even mean? He's watched a ton of high caps with 58s and a ton with 60s and the 60 group is demonstrably worse!??!

    We come to WRX for experts' takes on issues. If you have a column called "The Wedge Guy" I'm going to be disappointed when the entire article is a copy and pasted wikipedia page on the history of the flange followed by "don't play anything over 58 without practicing it first." (<- I'd suggest you probably shouldn't play a 58 without practicing with it first, either).

    Well that article got 166 likes and only 18 shanks ... just saying.

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  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members Posts: 3,416 ✭✭

    @kiwihacker said:

    @pinestreetgolf said:

    @SwingBlade said:
    Don’t understand some of the the snarky responses above. Considering that the article in question was targeting players who don’t know a whole lot about wedges, particularly wedges from maybe 58 to 64, I thought he gave an excellent overview and advice for those folks. What exactly were you guys looking for him to say? Is there some delusion regarding the extent to which newer golfers or golfers with no in depth curiosity about wedge design have any any real appreciation for club making history from the 1930’s to the 1980’s? These derogatory postings seemed more like grudges or personal attacks rather than objective commentary.

    He didn't give anything. He parroted conventional golf wisdom that may, or may not, be true. Then added a caveat at the end that if you practice you'll get better. Why in the world would going from 58 to 60 make any difference? Who knows. Just something "he's observed". What does that even mean? He's watched a ton of high caps with 58s and a ton with 60s and the 60 group is demonstrably worse!??!

    We come to WRX for experts' takes on issues. If you have a column called "The Wedge Guy" I'm going to be disappointed when the entire article is a copy and pasted wikipedia page on the history of the flange followed by "don't play anything over 58 without practicing it first." (<- I'd suggest you probably shouldn't play a 58 without practicing with it first, either).

    Well that article got 166 likes and only 18 shanks ... just saying.

    His conclusion is what most people think is right (see Mahonie's post above). If you wrote a very well-researched article with a conclusion most disagree with you'd get a million shanks.

    His writing, preparation, research and justification for the conclusion were useless. I have no idea if he's wrong or right about 58* being some sort of line but that article didn't make much of case for it. He may as well have written two lines. "Most people think its around 58, including almost all experts, but I'm not going to explain why. If you practice a lot and try out high loft wedges you might save strokes with those instead."

    That was the entire article.

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  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU Members Posts: 6,523 ✭✭

    I listened to the podcast with him and enjoyed it. he had that grandpa folk'sy wisdom tone that was enjoyable to listen to. There are a few points where he sounded to me a bit bitter for lack of better term towards larger and more successful wedge OEM's. There were some great points about how much money people spend on wedges compared to other parts of their bag. That wedges tend to be an after thought. I agree with that.

    Calling him the "wedge guy" may be a little stretch, but I don't think he gave himself that nickname so it is not fair to bash him for it.

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  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,104 ✭✭

    @srksi said:
    And Phil Rodgers?

    One of the greatest short game instructors that ever lived. He also helped design the original Trusty Rusty. Yeah, I put him way above TK.


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  • mogc60mogc60 Members Posts: 363 ✭✭

    No he isn’t in the same category as Cleveland, Vokey, Rodgers.....but
    His wedges are good. Scor was a good company and their service was excellent. The wedges were very good and they had some success. His grind I don’t think is earth shattering in anyway but it’s a very friendly grind that a lot of mid to high handicaps could benefit from.

  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,104 ✭✭

    @mogc60 said:
    No he isn’t in the same category as Cleveland, Vokey, Rodgers.....but
    His wedges are good. Scor was a good company and their service was excellent. The wedges were very good and they had some success. His grind I don’t think is earth shattering in anyway but it’s a very friendly grind that a lot of mid to high handicaps could benefit from.

    I don’t disagree. Except the grind on a wedge is everything to me, and his grind does not work well for me, I just don’t like it. Back when he had a blog with Scor I jumped on and asked a serious question. He was in his high horse and talking about himself and his game. His answer to me was very dismissive. And I wasn’t being rude, in fact respectful. It came across as very arrogant, especially for someone who never really was able to keep a business afloat.


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  • Zengolfer36Zengolfer36 Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 22 ✭✭

    He seems pretty knowledgable to me and his pedigree seems to be pretty impressive. I dont know if he is THE wedge guy because theres lots of great wedge makers out there but I really enjoyed his thoughts on the GolfWRX podcast the other day and I certainly agree with much of what he has to say.

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