The feeling of hitting a DRAW...

David69David69 Members Posts: 247 ✭✭

...feels more like a backswing to me - or a backhanded flip at the goal in hockey (while skating backward for a righty). I have been working on changing my OTT swing for about a year now and I am good with all my clubs except driver which is finally starting to come along - albeit much slower than I would like. I have a SkyTrak that I use to practice with which is fairly accurate for a flight monitor - especially tracking ball flight compared to real balls on the course or range. For me - the feeling I have when I am able to really swing from the inside and manage to draw the driver is that I am cranking down the clubface closed - bowing my left wrist while adding hard forward topspin rotation to my right hand/wrist - while aiming out to the right for the swing path - which means that my back is closed to the target line until well after I come through and hit the ball. The feel is that I am almost sidearming a throw while adding a snap of the wrists at the end in order to get the clubface closed to path. If I hit it correct - the ball is a nice draw - starting right curving back to target. If I open up and rotate my upper body into the swing too soon - which is more right side dominant feeling - it is a pull left or a hook. If the face does not close soon enough - a huge problem for me (keeping the face open because it feels natural) then it is a slice 100%. Ultimately - the feeling that I get for all of the good draw shots is that I am set up closed to target and really hitting it aiming right - almost feeling too far right (2 O'clock) - but coming from the inside while closing the face hard so that the hit actually feels like a left backhand with the left hand/arm cranking down while the right-hand assists with the crank. It feels like the exact opposite of hitting it with the right side or a forehand. If I want to hit a cut - I just change the feeling to a forehand groundstroke, aim straight or left and keep the face more neutral and it cuts. Wondering if anyone else has this feeling when hitting a good driver draw? Negotiating the closed clubface face while aiming right, swinging from the inside and still hitting up is incredibly difficult for me and goes against all natural instincts.

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Comments

  • BottleCapBottleCap Members Posts: 1,355 ✭✭

    a draw should be a natural shot shape. How was your shape before?

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  • mikpgamikpga www.mikedeitersgolf.com Members Posts: 7,376 ✭✭

    How about a 3 degree path to the right.

    A 1.5 degree face closed to path.

    A 1 degree down aoa.

  • juststevejuststeve Members Posts: 4,767 ✭✭

    @mikpga said:
    How about a 3 degree path to the right.

    A 1.5 degree face closed to path.

    A 1 degree down aoa.

    3 degrees right feels so much like 11/2 degrees right that I can't really feel the difference.

    Steve

  • Krt22Krt22 Members Posts: 6,771 ✭✭

    Make your life easier and just don't try to draw the big stick. The setup required to hit long drives makes it hard to draw the ball (ie d-plane) and if you over do it the lefts with the big stick are terrible.

  • 9stick9stick Members Posts: 203 ✭✭

    @Krt22 said:
    Make your life easier and just don't try to draw the big stick. The setup required to hit long drives makes it hard to draw the ball (ie d-plane) and if you over do it the lefts with the big stick are terrible.

    Learning how to shape it left after missing it right for so long feels good! At least it did to me. But I understand what you are saying here. Especially with over active wrists you can turn that draw into a snapper very easily.

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  • SEP1006SEP1006 Pearland, Tx.ClubWRX Posts: 922 ClubWRX

    @Krt22 said:
    Make your life easier and just don't try to draw the big stick. The setup required to hit long drives makes it hard to draw the ball (ie d-plane) and if you over do it the lefts with the big stick are terrible.

    Exactly why I went to playing a fade. So much easier and very consistent, FOR ME ANYWAY.



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  • Krt22Krt22 Members Posts: 6,771 ✭✭

    Me too. I went down that path, to the point where I hooked/blocked everything off the planet. Been working for the last 1.5 years to neutralize the path and it still rears its ugly face now and again. I can draw everything else in the bag but have committed to fading the driver. If I miss left its more just a straight pull vs the dreaded low snapper.

  • SEP1006SEP1006 Pearland, Tx.ClubWRX Posts: 922 ClubWRX

    @Krt22 said:
    Me too. I went down that path, to the point where I hooked/blocked everything off the planet. Been working for the last 1.5 years to neutralize the path and it still rears its ugly face now and again. I can draw everything else in the bag but have committed to fading the driver. If I miss left its more just a straight pull vs the dreaded low snapper.

    He!! I fade everything now, so much easier to play and my scores are so much more consistent now. May have lost a few yards overall but scores are consistent and improving. Now my bad rounds are 85's and not 90.



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  • David69David69 Members Posts: 247 ✭✭

    My natural driver shot is a slice which I can manage into a fade fairly consistently. The Draw with the driver is such an unnatural feel to me - it is almost impossible for me to hit a hook with the driver without cranking the heck out of the face and pulling everything left. A natural smooth driver swing from me has the face wiiiide open with a slightly out to in path and then it closes naturally about a foot past the ball. So negotiating the face closing earlier in the downswing brings my whole left side into the swing and gets me OTT fast. Even when the path is out to the right.

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  • BottleCapBottleCap Members Posts: 1,355 ✭✭

    can you post a video of both your natural and draw swing?

    i have a hunch it’s your takeaway that is causing issues

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  • ZitlowZitlow Members Posts: 220 ✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019 11:14pm #12

    Think draw, aim a little right and feel the toe of the club is getting to the ball a little ahead of the heel. Relax your mind and yourself, you'll get the hang of it in a few shots.

  • David69David69 Members Posts: 247 ✭✭

    I'll try and get a swing vid up tomorrow. I can hit the draw - it's just that the feel is really awkward and the best ones feel like I am backhanding it with my left hand. Another thing I notice is that if I try and lay into it and swing too fast - I can't close the face in time and it goes high and right.

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  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,379 ✭✭

    I had to tell my buddy to be careful what he wished for.

  • rich srich s Members Posts: 589 ✭✭
    edited May 22, 2019 11:30am #15

    Yeah done this journey and don’t roll your wrists. If you have to do that you will have issues imo. I focus on getting a slight bow in my left wrist early in my backswing and then rotate hard on the downswing. If I stall and flip it’s a huge draw or hook. Basically if you feel you have to manipulate you are not doing it right. You should feel like your club face is square at the top. There is no feeling of having to square the club face on the way down.

  • DShepleyDShepley Members Posts: 40 ✭✭

    @Krt22 said:
    Make your life easier and just don't try to draw the big stick. The setup required to hit long drives makes it hard to draw the ball (ie d-plane) and if you over do it the lefts with the big stick are terrible.

    This! Learn to turn the slice into a fade. I draw the ball when my timing is on, but years of 'swing to right field' type instruction has turned my impact shallow and too much from the inside. Sure, draws look nice when they behave and all the slicers on the range admire them, but hooks suck....really really really suck! I always score my best when I sort my swing out and can move it reliably left to right.

  • sixfootnicksixfootnick Members Posts: 40 ✭✭

    I've been through the same exact thing, and I've had rounds where I resort to a "sidearm" swing with a snap to close the face. What I was actually doing is holding the club off as long as possible to get the swing to be more "right", then trying to time the snap. My path wasn't actually right, I was just manipulating it to seem that way - my miss was still a bad pull or a huge slice.

    My path was just too far left. I needed to completely change the way I thought about things. When you slice, a pull is good because you just leave the face open and it comes back to target. If you want to learn how to draw, you need to start hitting big blocks - a pull is the worst thing you can do. Feel like the club head gets back behind your butt on the downswing. I sat at the range for 2 days and made myself hit toe-shank blocks to the right until I started to get a feel for the rightward path, then I could start to release the club properly. With a proper path, closing the face is "easy" - no rolling, no flipping, no cranking necessary. So far so good.

  • David69David69 Members Posts: 247 ✭✭

    Here is the big disconnect for me - when I have a bowed left wrist to keep face square - I want to pull left and hit down. They always say that you should have no tension in your arms and try not to manipulate the face - - well when I have no tension in my arms and don't manipulate the face - I roll open at takeaway and don't bow the left wrist and can never get it back so it is wide open at impact and my swing naturally goes around my body like a baseball bat - instead of up and slightly out. So I keep a strong grip and use a one-piece takeaway that I've worked on for months. It is a downswing issue that I am trying to change. I can hit blocks all day when I concentrate. Getting the face back to square or closed while hitting from inside while adding any reasonable speed is where it falls apart for me. For the driver, in order to pull off the draw, I have to put the ball back in my stance - middle - like an iron - aim right with my hips and shoulders - and have my club face closing and the low point of the swing is about a foot or more behind the ball - while really concentrating on closing the face early and continuing through impact in order for it to work. Now, this all works fine for a 200-yard drive and it draws and rolls out to 225 or so swinging at about 85 mph which seems to be a comfort zone swing. If I add any speed to this - it naturally gives me the tendency to pull down and left as I bow the left wrist and it falls apart with a wide open face. At speed, I simply can't manage the clubface. If I want to fade it I literally set up - aim left or down target line depending - and swing naturally - fade.

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  • rich srich s Members Posts: 589 ✭✭

    just try this, bow your left wrist in the takeaway as soon as possible. If you are right hand dominant, focus on cupping your right wrist as much as possible in the first few feet of the takeaway. From there just hold whichever hand you are focusing on, in that position, as long as you can in the downswing. Doing that has forced me to rotate hard and have a little shaft lean. It has reduced my back spin and made my driver very accurate and much longer than it was hitting weak fades. It blows my mind how much wrist angles effect my path. I can hit power fades this way too. Everyone is different but it worked for me. My backswing also feels a crazy amount shorter.

  • David69David69 Members Posts: 247 ✭✭

    I'll give that right wrist cup a go later tonight. Here is a pic of the basic swing station setup that I use when I practice.

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  • BottleCapBottleCap Members Posts: 1,355 ✭✭

    Do you try to keep your shaft above that stick in the ground?

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  • David69David69 Members Posts: 247 ✭✭
    edited May 22, 2019 9:06pm #22

    Below - you swing under it - and you can move the stick or lower the angle to be more difficult. If you hit the stick you are OTT.

    Heres the original vid:

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  • BottleCapBottleCap Members Posts: 1,355 ✭✭

    @David69 said:
    Below - you swing under it - and you can move the stick or lower the angle to be more difficult. If you hit the stick you are OTT.

    Heres the original vid:

    I meant for the back swing. I think it would be helpful to be above that on the way up and then below on the way down.
    Can you post the video where you got the screen cap from?

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  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members Posts: 1,067 ✭✭

    @David69 said:
    My natural driver shot is a slice which I can manage into a fade fairly consistently. The Draw with the driver is such an unnatural feel to me - it is almost impossible for me to hit a hook with the driver without cranking the heck out of the face and pulling everything left. A natural smooth driver swing from me has the face wiiiide open with a slightly out to in path and then it closes naturally about a foot past the ball. So negotiating the face closing earlier in the downswing brings my whole left side into the swing and gets me OTT fast. Even when the path is out to the right.

    Flatten your swing. That is the "feel" that works for me if I am really trying to bend one to the left. Squat down just a bit more, tee it up off the toe a shade to encourage a little reach and to hit it out on the toe slightly and finish the swing around my body. Of course you change your body alignment and club face in relation to the target.

    For a fade I set up slightly closer, stand a little more up right and attempt to finish with my hands high.

    YMMV.

  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,379 ✭✭

    The face looks wide open in the halfway back pic.

  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,808 ✭✭

    @BottleCap said:

    @David69 said:
    Below - you swing under it - and you can move the stick or lower the angle to be more difficult. If you hit the stick you are OTT.

    Heres the original vid:

    I meant for the back swing. I think it would be helpful to be above that on the way up and then below on the way down.
    Can you post the video where you got the screen cap from?

    You literally quoted the video. And backswing would have to be ridiculous to be above that stick in the takeaway

  • BottleCapBottleCap Members Posts: 1,355 ✭✭

    @iteachgolf said:

    @BottleCap said:

    @David69 said:
    Below - you swing under it - and you can move the stick or lower the angle to be more difficult. If you hit the stick you are OTT.

    Heres the original vid:

    I meant for the back swing. I think it would be helpful to be above that on the way up and then below on the way down.
    Can you post the video where you got the screen cap from?

    You literally quoted the video. And backswing would have to be ridiculous to be above that stick in the takeaway

    i don’t know what video you’re referring to.

    taking it above the stick would be a drill to ingrain a feeling so he doesn’t get a ridiculous low inside takeaway

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  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,808 ✭✭

    @BottleCap said:

    @iteachgolf said:

    @BottleCap said:

    @David69 said:
    Below - you swing under it - and you can move the stick or lower the angle to be more difficult. If you hit the stick you are OTT.

    Heres the original vid:

    I meant for the back swing. I think it would be helpful to be above that on the way up and then below on the way down.
    Can you post the video where you got the screen cap from?

    You literally quoted the video. And backswing would have to be ridiculous to be above that stick in the takeaway

    i don’t know what video you’re referring to.

    taking it above the stick would be a drill to ingrain a feeling so he doesn’t get a ridiculous low inside takeaway

    Of course you don’t. You asked for the video the screen grab was from quoting the post where he posted said video. IE he already posted the video.

    The shaft is WAY outside and above the shaft plane at setup. Under it would NOT be an inside takeaway and above it would make Jim Furyk look inside.

  • David69David69 Members Posts: 247 ✭✭

    another version of the drill

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  • BottleCapBottleCap Members Posts: 1,355 ✭✭

    @iteachgolf said:

    @BottleCap said:

    @iteachgolf said:

    @BottleCap said:

    @David69 said:
    Below - you swing under it - and you can move the stick or lower the angle to be more difficult. If you hit the stick you are OTT.

    Heres the original vid:

    I meant for the back swing. I think it would be helpful to be above that on the way up and then below on the way down.
    Can you post the video where you got the screen cap from?

    You literally quoted the video. And backswing would have to be ridiculous to be above that stick in the takeaway

    i don’t know what video you’re referring to.

    taking it above the stick would be a drill to ingrain a feeling so he doesn’t get a ridiculous low inside takeaway

    Of course you don’t. You asked for the video the screen grab was from quoting the post where he posted said video. IE he already posted the video.

    The shaft is WAY outside and above the shaft plane at setup. Under it would NOT be an inside takeaway and above it would make Jim Furyk look inside.

    i couldn’t see it. things get blocked on the work network from time to time and now i know i can’t see youtube at work anymore

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  • David69David69 Members Posts: 247 ✭✭

    This is a compilation video I mashed together so that I could study solid professional downswings from DTL. Just downswings in slow motion on repeat. Watching the hips, the dips, the wrists and the depth of the arms as they come down. They all do this sidebend crunch move at the waist... Trying to get just a piece of that in my swing.

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