Is a Urethane Ball Hurting Me?

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  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @lchang said:

    @agolf1 said:

    @lchang said:
    A 10.5 index here (under 100 mph SS) who has been playing soft-feeling 3-piece surlyn balls (Bridgestone e6) for a long time. My limited experimentation with urethane balls made me feel more uncertain with them. Let me explain: with, say, a full gap wedge, a perfect strike with urethane spun back. A mediocre strike rolled out a lot. With surlyn, the difference between well-struck (some roll out) and mediocre (a lot of roll out just as with urethane) seemed smaller. The same for a 40 yard pitch: the surlyn was more predictable. I just play for roll out all the time. In other words, my oh-so-common mediocre-strike full and partial wedge shots had what seemed like the same (lots) of roll out with both balls. But the urethane balls when struck well stopped short. So the variance was bigger with urethane. Of course, I can’t hit spinny short game shots with surlyn, but trying to do so with urethane balls would (at least in my mind) introduce more uncertainty.

    So I’ve stuck with these e6’s that feel fine for me off wedge and putter .... and maybe a touch straighter off the driver (though I do believe all of you when you say that advantage is now gone).

    Anyone else in this camp?

    I'm similar to you (bouncing around between 8 and 10 index, driver swing speed is about 95 mph), and typically play two or three piece surlyn balls (SuperSoft/SuperHot or SoftFeel most recently). As noted above, I don't believe there's a material difference on full iron shots in ability to stop the ball on a well struck shot. On full wedge shots, I don't believe the difference is that large either. Every shot is different (wind, where it hits on the green, etc) but I would say that the surlyn balls stop where they hit or run-out at most 10 feet while the urethane balls are half of the run-out and may spin back a foot or two.

    I've never thought about the variance between the two as you describe it above. On the well struck shots wedge shots I think the urethane does have a slightly tighter circle vs. where it lands. Although at our skill level I'd argue that you mishit (somehow, someway) more than half your full swings anyways, so maybe the average of all shots is better to look at.

    The partial wedges and short game are definitely where it shows up. That being said, I believe there's only a handful (1-5) of shots per round where the difference in spin on these shots makes a difference. Most of the shots you can play with the surlyn ball as long as you know what it is going to do. On the difficult shots, I've learned somewhat to take on the high risk shot less often, so I probably don't notice it as much as some others may. Yeah, you make less pars from great saves, but you also make fewer doubles when things don't turn out well.

    All that being said, I'm not sure that I can say a urethane ball would hurt me. You have some add'l options around the greens every now and then, and the rest of things are pretty comparable. I do think some of the surlyn balls fly higher (some of the stopping power is coming from trajectory vs. spin), and I do find them a bit more stable in the wind on the slight mishits. Not sure if those two factors are a net benefit though.

    I did play with some ProVs and TP5s recently but didn't notice much in terms of score/shots and will probably stick with the cheap hacker balls for now.

    When you say you think some surlyn balls fly higher, do you mean compared to urethane? I’d think urethane would go higher because of the extra backspin.

    Increased stability in the wind for surlyn makes sense to me, because they’d be lower with less spin and less ballooning.

    I'm not expert but I think the dimple design has some impact on how the ball flies as well. Here, higher is worse for the surlyn in wind (all else equal). However, I think the well-struck shots still seem to behave about the same. It seems like the mishits with the urethanes always seem to go nowhere or drift farther offline in a lot of wind (anything but downwind), although this may just be in my head after a few instances.

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  • jpdxjpdx Members Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    when I was a high cap, I wouldn't have dreamed of playing a urethane ball. what I noticed was that psychologically I played better with urethane balls when I found and used them. perhaps it made me concentrate more not-wanting-to-lose-a-$5-ball-that-I-found-but-wouldn't-spend-the-money-on or something dif. then reading lots of posts on here about balls has made me a firm believer that urethane is the way to go regardless of hdcp.

    I started down the road of choosing a ball from the green to tee, i want a ball that i can consistently control distance with the putter, sound is appealing and the feel is what i like. to me that advantage is moot as i have played 2pc soft balls that are as good feeling and sounds like as more expensive balls. i then looked at short shots from around that green. i tend to aim at the flag so more spin is better for me. advantage urethane. then i looked at approach from 50-125. again, i tend to shoot at the pin so more spin is needed...advantage urethane again. longer approach shots are the same.

    from the tee, i play a low(er) spin driver with a low(er) spin shaft. recently at a demo/test day i found that i would spin the range ball too little - 1400-1500 rpms - too little spin to keep the ball in the air. once i used a urethane ball it jumped to 1900-2100 rpms and kept the ball in the air longer leading to longer drives.

    i don't find much difference on dispersion with either type of ball. i can hit either ball with lots of curve or perfect little draws or push blocks - rarely pulls. nothing a ball is really going to help as it's swing related rather than the ball - imo.

    as I've improved, because of price point i purchased them at previously, i still play non-urethane balls on courses I fear losing balls or in the fall/winter when it's easier to lose balls under leaves or plugging . Course I played yesterday is one of those and i was +10 on the front. started the round with one of those non-urethane ball's. I then pulled out a used ball in my bag - a urethane ball. proceeded to almost reach a par-5 in 2 (ended on the fringe and misjudged the speed and ended with par : insert eyeroll emoji:) played coming in +5. the back is longer and rated more difficult. I was able to play my normal game without adjusting for the two types of balls minute differences.

    tl:dr: no, I don't think urethane ball hurts your game.

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  • chippa13chippa13 Members Posts: 2,353 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    All this anectdote proves is that if one concerns their mind with playing golf and not about losing balls then one tends to play better golf. That has zero to do with what type of ball was in play.

  • jpdxjpdx Members Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @chippa13 said:
    All this anectdote proves is that if one concerns their mind with playing golf and not about losing balls then one tends to play better golf. That has zero to do with what type of ball was in play.

    thanks. it is still my opinion that a urethane ball is not hurting a OP's game.

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  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I continue to dink around with some urethane balls and have noticed the following after a few more rounds.

    1. Not surprisingly, there are some short game shots with the urethane you can pull off every now and then where you have no hope with the surlyn.

    2. Stopping power on full iron/wedge shots is a mixed bag for me. On fully flushed shots, the urethane stops quicker but I don't think the difference impacts how you play or score at all. On slight mishits, I've actually had the urethanes run out more. It is very difficult if not impossible to control for the strike differences here but I think it is because I am generally getting less height out of the urethane balls.

    3. I've struggled on intermediate pitches (30-60 yards) with the urethane balls when the pin is just on the top of a ridge. With the surlyn balls, I just landed it at the base of the hill and it runs up. Guess work/luck on exactly how close you end up but usually have a decent putt. With the urethane, I almost feel like it's a more difficult shot trying to land it just on top of the upper level and then have it grab. Part of this may just be unfamiliarity / lack of practice with this shot. Other option would be to use less loft and run it up the hill still.

    4. On little greenside pitches (<20 yards), I feel like the variance of outcomes is higher with the urethane ball. I'm not including shots in category#1 above but those where you have some green to play with. When hitting the little low spinners, it just seems like if your contact is off slightly the ball either comes off with not enough spin or can stop way short. In contrast, the surlyn you just kind of get it on the ground and running. Ie the best shots are not as good (or at least not as cool looking) but the bad ones aren't as bad either. Of course, this seems like maybe just need to use less loft with the urethane ball.

    I'm still mixed on whether I care about the ball...

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  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I really, truly do not believe there is any plausible mechanism for your point #2 where you say on mishit shots the urethane ball runs out farther than a surlyn ball. That simply isn't happening. It's possible the different sound/feel of the two types causes you to interpret what is and isn't a mishit differently, I suppose.

    Your point #3 is definitely an adjustment that playing with more short game spin requires. The trick is to use a less lofted club to ensure the ball absolutely does not check up rather than running up the slope. For instance, playing a 40-yard pitch shot to a hole just a few paces above a ridge if I hit that with a SW or GW it will almost always check up without cresting the slope properly. Even a PW can be 50/50. So I'd use my 9-iron just to be safe.

    Whether with surlyn or urethane balls, on shots like that (or shorter chips in your point #4) there is always a choice between a high-lofted club that you're sure will check and a low-lofted one that you're sure will roll out. But there's always a club or two in between where you can't be sure. What club that is from a particular distance may depend on which type of ball but the general principle remains. If you pitch it 40 yards with a 60-degree even a surlyn ball may well check up some of the time.

    On point #4, don't let the fact that you can hit a low spinner with a urethane ball talk you into doing it. When chipping from that close to the green I always play with less loft so the ball rolls out (see my previous paragraph). Counting on the low spinner is only a good tactic if you practice it enough to get the spin almost every time IMO.

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  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @North Butte said:
    I really, truly do not believe there is any plausible mechanism for your point #2 where you say on mishit shots the urethane ball runs out farther than a surlyn ball. That simply isn't happening. It's possible the different sound/feel of the two types causes you to interpret what is and isn't a mishit differently, I suppose.

    Your point #3 is definitely an adjustment that playing with more short game spin requires. The trick is to use a less lofted club to ensure the ball absolutely does not check up rather than running up the slope. For instance, playing a 40-yard pitch shot to a hole just a few paces above a ridge if I hit that with a SW or GW it will almost always check up without cresting the slope properly. Even a PW can be 50/50. So I'd use my 9-iron just to be safe.

    Whether with surlyn or urethane balls, on shots like that (or shorter chips in your point #4) there is always a choice between a high-lofted club that you're sure will check and a low-lofted one that you're sure will roll out. But there's always a club or two in between where you can't be sure. What club that is from a particular distance may depend on which type of ball but the general principle remains. If you pitch it 40 yards with a 60-degree even a surlyn ball may well check up some of the time.

    On point #4, don't let the fact that you can hit a low spinner with a urethane ball talk you into doing it. When chipping from that close to the green I always play with less loft so the ball rolls out (see my previous paragraph). Counting on the low spinner is only a good tactic if you practice it enough to get the spin almost every time IMO.

    I think the issue in #2 is that the urethane is coming in flatter. But as I said it is very hard to tell how all of these slight mishits are coming off the face (both balls spinning less than flushed shots) or exactly where they hit on the green (slope, hard spot). I could go either way on whether this exists on a larger sample of shots.

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  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    How much do people (mid-handicap) believe the urethane ball HELPS their game?

    I've thought of the following factors:

    a) Off the tee I hit ~6 fairways, meaning I miss 8 fairways. To some degree, the biggest factor off the tee at this level is avoiding stroke costing penalties (either direct where you are reaching for another ball or where you can't fully advance the 2nd shot). Spin off the driver is fairly comparable, but there still does seem to be some extra side spin with the premium balls. Every now and then it could change what cut you end up in or whether you incur a penalty. I'm assuming distance is basically the same.

    b) I hit ~6 greens per round, meaning I miss 12 greens. Of the 12 that I "miss," some are because I don't have a clean 2nd shot (i.e. problems off the tee) and may be hit with the 3rd shot (or they could still be missed with the 3rd shot). Let's say there are 11 greenside (or < 50 yards) opportunities to get the ball up and down (could be for par or worse).

    c) On the 11 greenside opportunities, lets say the up/down% is somewhere between 20% and 40% or 2.2 - 4.4 conversions.

    My thought is that there is some slight negative from a higher spinning ball off the tee and on the 11 greens that I miss/have up and down chance (simply put, the ball curves more which means you are farther offline. Of course, there are some cases where you could miss so far sideways that you are actually better but I don't think this is a decent base assumption. For every one of those, you could argue that another few yards of sidespin put you in a hazard in other cases). There is also probably some positive factor from being closer to your pitch mark on the 6 greens that are hit. Personally, to the extent that you controlled your landing spot / strike, I don't think this factor is large. Maybe all of these together are about a wash.

    So you are left with how much the ball improves your chances to get up and down. My gut says the ball changes things by 1 - 2 shots at most on average. 4.4 + 2 = 6.4 conversions out of 11 is 58% or more like scratch level. I.e. a different skill level, not a different piece of equipment.

    Any other factors people would mention? I'm not disagreeing that the urethane is likely better for most and definitely cooler, but how much does it matter for score? Or, do people over-estimate it's actual importance based on the infrequent but very memorable situations where it allowed you to do something you couldn't with a lower spinning ball.

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  • Golf4liferGolf4lifer Members Posts: 548 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 13, 2019 3:15pm #70

    The only other factor I would add is one’s swing. In my experience, I have yet to find a ball that corrects a bad swing, I wish one would! I have found that a premium ball gives me a better opportunity at getting an up and down around the greens than the surlyn ball. For my game that is what I want.

    I have also found that my miss with a surlyn ball off all clubs is about the same as a urethane ball. I think we other think the ball type way too much. Find a ball that’s works for you in the scoring zone and play that ball.

  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Golf4lifer said:
    The only other factor I would add is one’s swing. In my experience, I have yet to find a ball that corrects a bad swing, I wish one would! I have found that a premium ball gives me a better opportunity at getting an up and down around the greens than the surlyn ball. For my game that is what I want.

    I have also found that my miss with a surlyn ball off all clubs is about the same as a urethane ball. I think we other think the ball type way too much. Find a ball that’s works for you in the scoring zone and play that ball.

    Any guess how much the spinnier ball adds to the up and down ability?

    I think the miss / side-spin thing is small and hard to calculate. Almost like the GI-Blade impact. There's something (by itself) worse, but how much worse is the thing. Rightly or wrongly, I'm not in the "a miss is a miss" camp. There are varying degrees of misses and it all adds up slowly over time. But like the clubs (blades), there are other benefits as well, and net-net it can easily be a benefit for someone.

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  • Golf4liferGolf4lifer Members Posts: 548 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 14, 2019 1:59am #72

    @agolf1 said:

    @Golf4lifer said:
    The only other factor I would add is one’s swing. In my experience, I have yet to find a ball that corrects a bad swing, I wish one would! I have found that a premium ball gives me a better opportunity at getting an up and down around the greens than the surlyn ball. For my game that is what I want.

    I have also found that my miss with a surlyn ball off all clubs is about the same as a urethane ball. I think we other think the ball type way too much. Find a ball that’s works for you in the scoring zone and play that ball.

    Any guess how much the spinnier ball adds to the up and down ability?

    I think the miss / side-spin thing is small and hard to calculate. Almost like the GI-Blade impact. There's something (by itself) worse, but how much worse is the thing. Rightly or wrongly, I'm not in the "a miss is a miss" camp. There are varying degrees of misses and it all adds up slowly over time. But like the clubs (blades), there are other benefits as well, and net-net it can easily be a benefit for someone.

    I can only base this on what I experience. I played 9 yesterday at my home course and didn’t hit a single GIR (I was on the fringe 3 times) and only hit 2 fairways, but shot a 40 (par 35; 4 pars, 3 bogeys and a double). On this round I got up and down 4 out of 7 if I recall correctly. Now my short game is probably the best part of my game and I put myself in position to get the up and down based on chips and shots from 120 and in. There are so many shots I can play with a urethane ball around the greens where I can save strokes. This is just my experience.

    Again, I say play the ball that allows you to score well from 120 and in. Whatever that ball may be. I do not believe a urethane ball is hurting ones game. So many other factors that are.

    Edit: I didn’t track my up and downs till that round. I will going forward.

  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Golf4lifer said:

    @agolf1 said:

    @Golf4lifer said:
    The only other factor I would add is one’s swing. In my experience, I have yet to find a ball that corrects a bad swing, I wish one would! I have found that a premium ball gives me a better opportunity at getting an up and down around the greens than the surlyn ball. For my game that is what I want.

    I have also found that my miss with a surlyn ball off all clubs is about the same as a urethane ball. I think we other think the ball type way too much. Find a ball that’s works for you in the scoring zone and play that ball.

    Any guess how much the spinnier ball adds to the up and down ability?

    I think the miss / side-spin thing is small and hard to calculate. Almost like the GI-Blade impact. There's something (by itself) worse, but how much worse is the thing. Rightly or wrongly, I'm not in the "a miss is a miss" camp. There are varying degrees of misses and it all adds up slowly over time. But like the clubs (blades), there are other benefits as well, and net-net it can easily be a benefit for someone.

    I can only base this on what I experience. I played 9 yesterday at my home course and didn’t hit a single GIR (I was on the fringe 3 times) and only hit 2 fairways, but shot a 40 (par 35; 4 pars, 3 bogeys and a double). On this round I got up and down 4 out of 7 if I recall correctly. Now my short game is probably the best part of my game and I put myself in position to get the up and down based on chips and shots from 120 and in. There are so many shots I can play with a urethane ball around the greens where I can save strokes. This is just my experience.

    Again, I say play the ball that allows you to score well from 120 and in. Whatever that ball may be. I do not believe a urethane ball is hurting ones game. So many other factors that are.

    Edit: I didn’t track my up and downs till that round. I will going forward.

    Thanks. I plan to try some more spinnier balls, so interested what people peg the real benefit at.

    My rough experience is of the 10 or so greens missed, at least half of them can be played with any ball (ie have green to work with). Sometimes it doesn't matter at all, sometimes there's 5 shots where the surlyn has no hope. But even the times where it's 5 and the urethane gives you a shot, I'm wondering what my real success rate is here anyways? They are harder shots to begin with so even with a better ball I am thinking the conversion rate is lower than my overall up and down %.

    My last 9 was a 40 as well, with 3 up and downs. There was one hole where I would have had no shot with a surlyn that I managed to pull off so saved a shot. But realistically I think this was like a 1/10 to 1/5 outcome. The other two weren't simple shots but could have been played with either ball. Somewhat lucky to pull both off as well. Easily could have shot a 43.

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  • Golf4liferGolf4lifer Members Posts: 548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @agolf1 said:

    @Golf4lifer said:

    @agolf1 said:

    @Golf4lifer said:
    The only other factor I would add is one’s swing. In my experience, I have yet to find a ball that corrects a bad swing, I wish one would! I have found that a premium ball gives me a better opportunity at getting an up and down around the greens than the surlyn ball. For my game that is what I want.

    I have also found that my miss with a surlyn ball off all clubs is about the same as a urethane ball. I think we other think the ball type way too much. Find a ball that’s works for you in the scoring zone and play that ball.

    Any guess how much the spinnier ball adds to the up and down ability?

    I think the miss / side-spin thing is small and hard to calculate. Almost like the GI-Blade impact. There's something (by itself) worse, but how much worse is the thing. Rightly or wrongly, I'm not in the "a miss is a miss" camp. There are varying degrees of misses and it all adds up slowly over time. But like the clubs (blades), there are other benefits as well, and net-net it can easily be a benefit for someone.

    I can only base this on what I experience. I played 9 yesterday at my home course and didn’t hit a single GIR (I was on the fringe 3 times) and only hit 2 fairways, but shot a 40 (par 35; 4 pars, 3 bogeys and a double). On this round I got up and down 4 out of 7 if I recall correctly. Now my short game is probably the best part of my game and I put myself in position to get the up and down based on chips and shots from 120 and in. There are so many shots I can play with a urethane ball around the greens where I can save strokes. This is just my experience.

    Again, I say play the ball that allows you to score well from 120 and in. Whatever that ball may be. I do not believe a urethane ball is hurting ones game. So many other factors that are.

    Edit: I didn’t track my up and downs till that round. I will going forward.

    Thanks. I plan to try some more spinnier balls, so interested what people peg the real benefit at.

    My rough experience is of the 10 or so greens missed, at least half of them can be played with any ball (ie have green to work with). Sometimes it doesn't matter at all, sometimes there's 5 shots where the surlyn has no hope. But even the times where it's 5 and the urethane gives you a shot, I'm wondering what my real success rate is here anyways? They are harder shots to begin with so even with a better ball I am thinking the conversion rate is lower than my overall up and down %.

    My last 9 was a 40 as well, with 3 up and downs. There was one hole where I would have had no shot with a surlyn that I managed to pull off so saved a shot. But realistically I think this was like a 1/10 to 1/5 outcome. The other two weren't simple shots but could have been played with either ball. Somewhat lucky to pull both off as well. Easily could have shot a 43.

    @agolf1 said:

    @Golf4lifer said:

    @agolf1 said:

    @Golf4lifer said:
    The only other factor I would add is one’s swing. In my experience, I have yet to find a ball that corrects a bad swing, I wish one would! I have found that a premium ball gives me a better opportunity at getting an up and down around the greens than the surlyn ball. For my game that is what I want.

    I have also found that my miss with a surlyn ball off all clubs is about the same as a urethane ball. I think we other think the ball type way too much. Find a ball that’s works for you in the scoring zone and play that ball.

    Any guess how much the spinnier ball adds to the up and down ability?

    I think the miss / side-spin thing is small and hard to calculate. Almost like the GI-Blade impact. There's something (by itself) worse, but how much worse is the thing. Rightly or wrongly, I'm not in the "a miss is a miss" camp. There are varying degrees of misses and it all adds up slowly over time. But like the clubs (blades), there are other benefits as well, and net-net it can easily be a benefit for someone.

    I can only base this on what I experience. I played 9 yesterday at my home course and didn’t hit a single GIR (I was on the fringe 3 times) and only hit 2 fairways, but shot a 40 (par 35; 4 pars, 3 bogeys and a double). On this round I got up and down 4 out of 7 if I recall correctly. Now my short game is probably the best part of my game and I put myself in position to get the up and down based on chips and shots from 120 and in. There are so many shots I can play with a urethane ball around the greens where I can save strokes. This is just my experience.

    Again, I say play the ball that allows you to score well from 120 and in. Whatever that ball may be. I do not believe a urethane ball is hurting ones game. So many other factors that are.

    Edit: I didn’t track my up and downs till that round. I will going forward.

    Thanks. I plan to try some more spinnier balls, so interested what people peg the real benefit at.

    My rough experience is of the 10 or so greens missed, at least half of them can be played with any ball (ie have green to work with). Sometimes it doesn't matter at all, sometimes there's 5 shots where the surlyn has no hope. But even the times where it's 5 and the urethane gives you a shot, I'm wondering what my real success rate is here anyways? They are harder shots to begin with so even with a better ball I am thinking the conversion rate is lower than my overall up and down %.

    My last 9 was a 40 as well, with 3 up and downs. There was one hole where I would have had no shot with a surlyn that I managed to pull off so saved a shot. But realistically I think this was like a 1/10 to 1/5 outcome. The other two weren't simple shots but could have been played with either ball. Somewhat lucky to pull both off as well. Easily could have shot a 43.

    This is what I like about a urethane ball around the greens. There aren’t many shots I can’t pull off with it. I can be aggressive and know it will check or put the ball in the back of my stance to play a low runner. I never had the confidence to play some of the shots I do with a surlyn ball. I’m playing 18 in the morning I’ll let you know my up and down stats.

  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Golf4lifer said:

    @agolf1 said:

    @Golf4lifer said:

    @agolf1 said:

    @Golf4lifer said:
    The only other factor I would add is one’s swing. In my experience, I have yet to find a ball that corrects a bad swing, I wish one would! I have found that a premium ball gives me a better opportunity at getting an up and down around the greens than the surlyn ball. For my game that is what I want.

    I have also found that my miss with a surlyn ball off all clubs is about the same as a urethane ball. I think we other think the ball type way too much. Find a ball that’s works for you in the scoring zone and play that ball.

    Any guess how much the spinnier ball adds to the up and down ability?

    I think the miss / side-spin thing is small and hard to calculate. Almost like the GI-Blade impact. There's something (by itself) worse, but how much worse is the thing. Rightly or wrongly, I'm not in the "a miss is a miss" camp. There are varying degrees of misses and it all adds up slowly over time. But like the clubs (blades), there are other benefits as well, and net-net it can easily be a benefit for someone.

    I can only base this on what I experience. I played 9 yesterday at my home course and didn’t hit a single GIR (I was on the fringe 3 times) and only hit 2 fairways, but shot a 40 (par 35; 4 pars, 3 bogeys and a double). On this round I got up and down 4 out of 7 if I recall correctly. Now my short game is probably the best part of my game and I put myself in position to get the up and down based on chips and shots from 120 and in. There are so many shots I can play with a urethane ball around the greens where I can save strokes. This is just my experience.

    Again, I say play the ball that allows you to score well from 120 and in. Whatever that ball may be. I do not believe a urethane ball is hurting ones game. So many other factors that are.

    Edit: I didn’t track my up and downs till that round. I will going forward.

    Thanks. I plan to try some more spinnier balls, so interested what people peg the real benefit at.

    My rough experience is of the 10 or so greens missed, at least half of them can be played with any ball (ie have green to work with). Sometimes it doesn't matter at all, sometimes there's 5 shots where the surlyn has no hope. But even the times where it's 5 and the urethane gives you a shot, I'm wondering what my real success rate is here anyways? They are harder shots to begin with so even with a better ball I am thinking the conversion rate is lower than my overall up and down %.

    My last 9 was a 40 as well, with 3 up and downs. There was one hole where I would have had no shot with a surlyn that I managed to pull off so saved a shot. But realistically I think this was like a 1/10 to 1/5 outcome. The other two weren't simple shots but could have been played with either ball. Somewhat lucky to pull both off as well. Easily could have shot a 43.

    @agolf1 said:

    @Golf4lifer said:

    @agolf1 said:

    @Golf4lifer said:
    The only other factor I would add is one’s swing. In my experience, I have yet to find a ball that corrects a bad swing, I wish one would! I have found that a premium ball gives me a better opportunity at getting an up and down around the greens than the surlyn ball. For my game that is what I want.

    I have also found that my miss with a surlyn ball off all clubs is about the same as a urethane ball. I think we other think the ball type way too much. Find a ball that’s works for you in the scoring zone and play that ball.

    Any guess how much the spinnier ball adds to the up and down ability?

    I think the miss / side-spin thing is small and hard to calculate. Almost like the GI-Blade impact. There's something (by itself) worse, but how much worse is the thing. Rightly or wrongly, I'm not in the "a miss is a miss" camp. There are varying degrees of misses and it all adds up slowly over time. But like the clubs (blades), there are other benefits as well, and net-net it can easily be a benefit for someone.

    I can only base this on what I experience. I played 9 yesterday at my home course and didn’t hit a single GIR (I was on the fringe 3 times) and only hit 2 fairways, but shot a 40 (par 35; 4 pars, 3 bogeys and a double). On this round I got up and down 4 out of 7 if I recall correctly. Now my short game is probably the best part of my game and I put myself in position to get the up and down based on chips and shots from 120 and in. There are so many shots I can play with a urethane ball around the greens where I can save strokes. This is just my experience.

    Again, I say play the ball that allows you to score well from 120 and in. Whatever that ball may be. I do not believe a urethane ball is hurting ones game. So many other factors that are.

    Edit: I didn’t track my up and downs till that round. I will going forward.

    Thanks. I plan to try some more spinnier balls, so interested what people peg the real benefit at.

    My rough experience is of the 10 or so greens missed, at least half of them can be played with any ball (ie have green to work with). Sometimes it doesn't matter at all, sometimes there's 5 shots where the surlyn has no hope. But even the times where it's 5 and the urethane gives you a shot, I'm wondering what my real success rate is here anyways? They are harder shots to begin with so even with a better ball I am thinking the conversion rate is lower than my overall up and down %.

    My last 9 was a 40 as well, with 3 up and downs. There was one hole where I would have had no shot with a surlyn that I managed to pull off so saved a shot. But realistically I think this was like a 1/10 to 1/5 outcome. The other two weren't simple shots but could have been played with either ball. Somewhat lucky to pull both off as well. Easily could have shot a 43.

    This is what I like about a urethane ball around the greens. There aren’t many shots I can’t pull off with it. I can be aggressive and know it will check or put the ball in the back of my stance to play a low runner. I never had the confidence to play some of the shots I do with a surlyn ball. I’m playing 18 in the morning I’ll let you know my up and down stats.

    Not a great day around the greens for me; 2/7 overall.

    I marked three situations where the urethane was beneficial. I'd say one the surlyn had no chance and on two others the urethane made things easier (effectively more green to work with/didn't need to land it so close to the edge). Was 1/3 on these opportunities.

    I plan to track this for the next 10 rounds. Will see where it comes in at but I wouldn't be surprised if the average is about what's listed above (helps on a few shots and convert 1 or so on average).

    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
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  • Golf4liferGolf4lifer Members Posts: 548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @agolf1 said:

    @Golf4lifer said:

    @agolf1 said:

    @Golf4lifer said:

    @agolf1 said:

    @Golf4lifer said:
    The only other factor I would add is one’s swing. In my experience, I have yet to find a ball that corrects a bad swing, I wish one would! I have found that a premium ball gives me a better opportunity at getting an up and down around the greens than the surlyn ball. For my game that is what I want.

    I have also found that my miss with a surlyn ball off all clubs is about the same as a urethane ball. I think we other think the ball type way too much. Find a ball that’s works for you in the scoring zone and play that ball.

    Any guess how much the spinnier ball adds to the up and down ability?

    I think the miss / side-spin thing is small and hard to calculate. Almost like the GI-Blade impact. There's something (by itself) worse, but how much worse is the thing. Rightly or wrongly, I'm not in the "a miss is a miss" camp. There are varying degrees of misses and it all adds up slowly over time. But like the clubs (blades), there are other benefits as well, and net-net it can easily be a benefit for someone.

    I can only base this on what I experience. I played 9 yesterday at my home course and didn’t hit a single GIR (I was on the fringe 3 times) and only hit 2 fairways, but shot a 40 (par 35; 4 pars, 3 bogeys and a double). On this round I got up and down 4 out of 7 if I recall correctly. Now my short game is probably the best part of my game and I put myself in position to get the up and down based on chips and shots from 120 and in. There are so many shots I can play with a urethane ball around the greens where I can save strokes. This is just my experience.

    Again, I say play the ball that allows you to score well from 120 and in. Whatever that ball may be. I do not believe a urethane ball is hurting ones game. So many other factors that are.

    Edit: I didn’t track my up and downs till that round. I will going forward.

    Thanks. I plan to try some more spinnier balls, so interested what people peg the real benefit at.

    My rough experience is of the 10 or so greens missed, at least half of them can be played with any ball (ie have green to work with). Sometimes it doesn't matter at all, sometimes there's 5 shots where the surlyn has no hope. But even the times where it's 5 and the urethane gives you a shot, I'm wondering what my real success rate is here anyways? They are harder shots to begin with so even with a better ball I am thinking the conversion rate is lower than my overall up and down %.

    My last 9 was a 40 as well, with 3 up and downs. There was one hole where I would have had no shot with a surlyn that I managed to pull off so saved a shot. But realistically I think this was like a 1/10 to 1/5 outcome. The other two weren't simple shots but could have been played with either ball. Somewhat lucky to pull both off as well. Easily could have shot a 43.

    @agolf1 said:

    @Golf4lifer said:

    @agolf1 said:

    @Golf4lifer said:
    The only other factor I would add is one’s swing. In my experience, I have yet to find a ball that corrects a bad swing, I wish one would! I have found that a premium ball gives me a better opportunity at getting an up and down around the greens than the surlyn ball. For my game that is what I want.

    I have also found that my miss with a surlyn ball off all clubs is about the same as a urethane ball. I think we other think the ball type way too much. Find a ball that’s works for you in the scoring zone and play that ball.

    Any guess how much the spinnier ball adds to the up and down ability?

    I think the miss / side-spin thing is small and hard to calculate. Almost like the GI-Blade impact. There's something (by itself) worse, but how much worse is the thing. Rightly or wrongly, I'm not in the "a miss is a miss" camp. There are varying degrees of misses and it all adds up slowly over time. But like the clubs (blades), there are other benefits as well, and net-net it can easily be a benefit for someone.

    I can only base this on what I experience. I played 9 yesterday at my home course and didn’t hit a single GIR (I was on the fringe 3 times) and only hit 2 fairways, but shot a 40 (par 35; 4 pars, 3 bogeys and a double). On this round I got up and down 4 out of 7 if I recall correctly. Now my short game is probably the best part of my game and I put myself in position to get the up and down based on chips and shots from 120 and in. There are so many shots I can play with a urethane ball around the greens where I can save strokes. This is just my experience.

    Again, I say play the ball that allows you to score well from 120 and in. Whatever that ball may be. I do not believe a urethane ball is hurting ones game. So many other factors that are.

    Edit: I didn’t track my up and downs till that round. I will going forward.

    Thanks. I plan to try some more spinnier balls, so interested what people peg the real benefit at.

    My rough experience is of the 10 or so greens missed, at least half of them can be played with any ball (ie have green to work with). Sometimes it doesn't matter at all, sometimes there's 5 shots where the surlyn has no hope. But even the times where it's 5 and the urethane gives you a shot, I'm wondering what my real success rate is here anyways? They are harder shots to begin with so even with a better ball I am thinking the conversion rate is lower than my overall up and down %.

    My last 9 was a 40 as well, with 3 up and downs. There was one hole where I would have had no shot with a surlyn that I managed to pull off so saved a shot. But realistically I think this was like a 1/10 to 1/5 outcome. The other two weren't simple shots but could have been played with either ball. Somewhat lucky to pull both off as well. Easily could have shot a 43.

    This is what I like about a urethane ball around the greens. There aren’t many shots I can’t pull off with it. I can be aggressive and know it will check or put the ball in the back of my stance to play a low runner. I never had the confidence to play some of the shots I do with a surlyn ball. I’m playing 18 in the morning I’ll let you know my up and down stats.

    Not a great day around the greens for me; 2/7 overall.

    I marked three situations where the urethane was beneficial. I'd say one the surlyn had no chance and on two others the urethane made things easier (effectively more green to work with/didn't need to land it so close to the edge). Was 1/3 on these opportunities.

    I plan to track this for the next 10 rounds. Will see where it comes in at but I wouldn't be surprised if the average is about what's listed above (helps on a few shots and convert 1 or so on average).

    I played so bad today no ball would have save me. I couldn’t make a putt to save my life, except on 18 and that was for bogey. I was probably got up and down 2 out 10 times. I’ll keep better stats next round.

  • munichopmunichop Members Posts: 260 ✭✭✭✭

    Regarding the original post about urethane vs surlyn I believe the former gives you more options for all kinds of shots and the latter gives you fewer options but more consistent behavior. The trick is trying to find the balance that gives you the best chance to score while satisfying each persons preference on feel, etc. The last urethane ball I used was the e5- then the 330 rx when I lost enough clubhead speed. I then switched to the Gamer soft and realized while the ball had limitations it simplified decision making for me, which helped with course management and eventually scoring. So while urethane appeals to the golfers ego the majority of players I believe would score better by playing a surlyn covered ball. Golf is a game of misses and in general the miss is magnified by the ball that allows a wider range of shots due to its construction.

  • Gary GutfulGary Gutful Members Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 31, 2019 10:49pm #78

    I see a lot of higher handicap players hitting rubbish surlyn balls and not seemingly getting enough spin to properly launch drivers, hold iron shots into greens or get any control on their chips.

    I play on a firm course with fast greens and can't imagine any instance where surlyn would be an better overall ball than urethane for any level of golfer.

  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Gary Gutful said:
    I can't imagine any instance where surlyn would be an better overall ball than urethane for any level of golfer.

    This may be true. I'd also say that the urethane matters a lot less for the vast majority of golfers than they claim though. It is likely better for most though so if you want to use them to "play your best" I get it.

    On your other points;
    a) spin off the driver is basically the same on all balls. It's not the surlyn ball that's **** this up.
    b) spin on full iron shots with many surlyn balls is within 500-1000 rpms of higher spinning balls. That's like 1-2 clubs difference. I don't know many people that say their 8-iron stops great but their 6/7-iron lands in the middle and rolls off the back. The surlyn balls often fly higher too, which makes them stop in a pretty comparable amount of roll-out on full iron shots.
    c) first thing to control chips is to get the ball on the right groove of the club when you make contact. The ball's cover has nothing to do with this. No doubt that the extra spin on partial wedge shots is a big advantage at times. Personally, I've also found that the vast majority of the shots can be played with either type of ball as long as you know what its going to do.

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  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @munichop said:
    So while urethane appeals to the golfers ego the majority of players I believe would score better by playing a surlyn covered ball. Golf is a game of misses and in general the miss is magnified by the ball that allows a wider range of shots due to its construction.

    I don't have a strong opinion on whether this is true or not. Regardless, I'd say that the source of the error is the decision making, which can theoretically be corrected independent of the ball. It's the same thing as people bashing a 64 degree wedge. But the truth is a lot of people make the same mistakes with a 58 or 60 degree wedge. I.e. it's not the loft difference but trying a low percentage shot with a terrible risk-reward payoff that gets people in trouble.

    Practically, you may be right. Most will only change once the tools are taken away from them.

    My personal belief is that most people vividly remember the few magical short game shots with a urethane and think this has had a profound impact on their short game and that they literally couldn't play with anything else. No one recalls the chips/pitches that ended up 15 feet away for whatever reason, you two-putted, and took bogey even though this may be the most frequent outcome. That being said, it still is an advantage when you do happen to pull it off.

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  • Gary GutfulGary Gutful Members Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @agolf1 said:

    @Gary Gutful said:
    I can't imagine any instance where surlyn would be an better overall ball than urethane for any level of golfer.

    This may be true. I'd also say that the urethane matters a lot less for the vast majority of golfers than they claim though. It is likely better for most though so if you want to use them to "play your best" I get it.

    On your other points;
    a) spin off the driver is basically the same on all balls. It's not the surlyn ball that's **** this up.
    b) spin on full iron shots with many surlyn balls is within 500-1000 rpms of higher spinning balls. That's like 1-2 clubs difference. I don't know many people that say their 8-iron stops great but their 6/7-iron lands in the middle and rolls off the back. The surlyn balls often fly higher too, which makes them stop in a pretty comparable amount of roll-out on full iron shots.
    c) first thing to control chips is to get the ball on the right groove of the club when you make contact. The ball's cover has nothing to do with this. No doubt that the extra spin on partial wedge shots is a big advantage at times. Personally, I've also found that the vast majority of the shots can be played with either type of ball as long as you know what its going to do.

    Fair points in reply.

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 1, 2019 12:48am #82

    You either believe that a low spin Surlyn ball makes your bad shots straighter or you don't. I do not.

    That is the only conceivable advantage to Surlyn over urethane construction, other than price. And the price advantage is gradually becoming very small.

    But yeah, if you think you are slicing because your ball has a urethane cover and you believe spin on approach shots or in the short game are utterly useless to you then urethane balls are a bad choice.

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @North Butte said:
    You either believe that a low spin Surlyn ball makes your bad shots straighter or you don't. I do not.

    That is the only conceivable advantage to Surlyn over urethane construction, other than price. And the price advantage is gradually becoming very small.

    But yeah, if you think you are slicing because your ball has a urethane cover and you believe spin on approach shots or in the short game are utterly useless to you then urethane balls are a bad choice.

    Some people say the Ksig 3 spins too much, the AVX not enough on iron shots. Proof right there that it's not the ball's cover or absolute spin level that matters for full irons shots.

    No one said utterly useless. It matters a lot sometimes. But sometimes is a lot less than most people think.

    The straighter is a tough question. Almost similar to different iron designs. If the ball is spinning more (sideways), it has to curve more. But it would be almost impossible to tell on any shot if it made a difference. Maybe if you literally end up 6 inches away from a hazard you could say it saved you. But that probably happens once a season or less.

    All that being said, your statement that "it's not hurting you" many posts ago is likely true.

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  • munichopmunichop Members Posts: 260 ✭✭✭✭

    Let me expand a little on my initial post. Many players execute a shot better when the type of shot is chosen for them based on the lie, having an obstacle in the way (like a tree) etc. In some ways that is a surlyn ball. It is limiting in the ways it can be shaped and spun to solve the shot at hand. On the other hand it is more predictable because of its limitations. It is more of a point and shoot ball. So many choices are made for the golfer before hand. In my own experience the GS could not be hit with the low spinning hop and stop action you see on tv. Fine with me. All of my short game shots are 2 simple variants of bump and runs. To stop the shot quicker you add height not spin. Applying this limiting action to my short game I had a career low of 1.4 bogies per round a few years back. Likewise I made sure not to short side myself. My great shots were still great but my misses were much more playable. When conditions get very firm and fast I can’t spin a urethane ball enough to control it so I just play for more release with the surlyn ball. And surlyn balls tend to behave better for me in the wind.

  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @munichop said:
    Let me expand a little on my initial post. Many players execute a shot better when the type of shot is chosen for them based on the lie, having an obstacle in the way (like a tree) etc. In some ways that is a surlyn ball. It is limiting in the ways it can be shaped and spun to solve the shot at hand. On the other hand it is more predictable because of its limitations. It is more of a point and shoot ball. So many choices are made for the golfer before hand. In my own experience the GS could not be hit with the low spinning hop and stop action you see on tv. Fine with me. All of my short game shots are 2 simple variants of bump and runs. To stop the shot quicker you add height not spin. Applying this limiting action to my short game I had a career low of 1.4 bogies per round a few years back. Likewise I made sure not to short side myself. My great shots were still great but my misses were much more playable. When conditions get very firm and fast I can’t spin a urethane ball enough to control it so I just play for more release with the surlyn ball. And surlyn balls tend to behave better for me in the wind.

    Good points. My short game is pretty basic too. My up and down % is usually a couple of points either way within the numbers I've seen for my skill level. But for me, getting a lot of conversions per round is usually a result of easier leaves then pulling off a bunch of circus shots.

    I am a long time surlyn ball user but may switch once my current stash is out. Still, I think the benefit to a urethane is somewhat limited. I tried to estimate it above and after a few rounds with urethanes I'd say it's on the low side of what I said before. My logic is:
    a) i have roughly 11 greenside (or sub-50 yard) opportunities per round. (I hit 6-7 greens per round meaning I miss 11-12. 1-2 that I miss is usually due to a bad drive, meaning I may be on in 3+ from a farther distance).
    b) of the 11 opportunities, I've found that the higher spinning ball would be a meaningful help 20-30% of the time. Ie say it matters on 3 holes per round.
    c) overall, my chances of getting up and down here are not great even with a better ball. They're just tough situations. So even at 1/3 conversion percentage, that means I save a shot per round.

    Of course, there may be some benefit from being closer even if you didn't get up and down on the tough situation. And some rounds you'll save more shots (but some you will save none as well).

    I also think the surlyn balls are marginally more stable in the wind but I kind of think this is close to being a wash.

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  • Brandons68Brandons68 Members Posts: 79 ✭✭✭

    I would suggest sticking with a urethane ball. The better you get the more you will want to be used to the feel and know how the ball will react. Overall it's just practice and some more practice to get your game into top form.

  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers Posts: 3,526 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I bet a good number of mid-handicap players might actually benefit from the soft feel and high trajectory of a cheaper ball at least when it came to their irons. Anyone stepping up to an iron shot knowing they're going to get a buttery-soft feel and a boost of height has some added confidence. If that also comes with a few yards of distance it's bound to produce better results for a lot of players. In general, most players I've witnessed would benefit from getting more height with their irons.

    Also, I play in the south where greens are soft and receptive so there is never any issue getting a ball to stop. The urethane balls come in and have a lot of spin. The cheaper balls don't have that same spin but they come in steeper and stop all the same. There's really no difference to a player like me. We'd be talking a couple of feet (inches in most cases). In essence, nothing that couldn't be accommodated.

    If I never had to chip/pitch I'm not sure there would be a reason to use a urethane ball. To me, that's really what they're selling you. I'm a single digit handicap. My average SS is somewhere between 105-110. So my long game is solid. But my best clubs are my wedges. I immediately notice the benefits of using a urethane ball. And given that I'm hitting about 10-greens max it helps being able to spin the ball in the short game.

    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.5) w. Tensei Pro Orange
    Fairway: Titleist 915 F (18) w. Diamana Blueboard
    Hybrid: Tour Edge Exotics E8 (19)
    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (4-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Select
  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @MelloYello said:
    I bet a good number of mid-handicap players might actually benefit from the soft feel and high trajectory of a cheaper ball at least when it came to their irons. Anyone stepping up to an iron shot knowing they're going to get a buttery-soft feel and a boost of height has some added confidence. If that also comes with a few yards of distance it's bound to produce better results for a lot of players. In general, most players I've witnessed would benefit from getting more height with their irons.

    Also, I play in the south where greens are soft and receptive so there is never any issue getting a ball to stop. The urethane balls come in and have a lot of spin. The cheaper balls don't have that same spin but they come in steeper and stop all the same. There's really no difference to a player like me. We'd be talking a couple of feet (inches in most cases). In essence, nothing that couldn't be accommodated.

    If I never had to chip/pitch I'm not sure there would be a reason to use a urethane ball. To me, that's really what they're selling you. I'm a single digit handicap. My average SS is somewhere between 105-110. So my long game is solid. But my best clubs are my wedges. I immediately notice the benefits of using a urethane ball. And given that I'm hitting about 10-greens max it helps being able to spin the ball in the short game.

    Of the 9 or so greens you miss, how many do you think the urethane provides a meaningful advantage? Ie really no hope with the surlyn or shot is much easier with the urethane. I laid out above what I peg the short game benefit for me at but interested in what others thoughts are.

    Everyone is different but I don't really care if the ball rolls 5 feet or 10-15 feet as long as I have that much green to use. My argument is if you can control (to some degree) where you miss then a lot of shots can be played with either type of ball.

    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    Ping G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    Ping Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  Ping Eye 2+ (58*) or Ping Eye 2 XG (60*)
  • Golf4liferGolf4lifer Members Posts: 548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @agolf1 said:
    Of the 9 or so greens you miss, how many do you think the urethane provides a meaningful advantage? Ie really no hope with the surlyn or shot is much easier with the urethane. I laid out above what I peg the short game benefit for me at but interested in what others thoughts are.

    Everyone is different but I don't really care if the ball rolls 5 feet or 10-15 feet as long as I have that much green to use. My argument is if you can control (to some degree) where you miss then a lot of shots can be played with either type of ball.

    What is your fear of a urethane ball?

    I can slice or pull hook any ball off the tee, when my swing is off. For iron shots, I hit the ball high enough where either ball will stop on most greens. Now for me, surlyn balls tend to roll out more where as urethane balls tend to be within a 3 foot radius. For me the short game is where the urethane ball shines. As my wedge game improves the benefits of the urethane ball outshines the surlyn ball by miles.

    As we discussed previously, my last two rounds I was 4 of 5 and 6 of 6 on up and downs. This number does not include putts from the fringe. I do not believe a urethane ball will hurt your game any more than a surlyn ball will.

  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Golf4lifer said:

    @agolf1 said:
    Of the 9 or so greens you miss, how many do you think the urethane provides a meaningful advantage? Ie really no hope with the surlyn or shot is much easier with the urethane. I laid out above what I peg the short game benefit for me at but interested in what others thoughts are.

    Everyone is different but I don't really care if the ball rolls 5 feet or 10-15 feet as long as I have that much green to use. My argument is if you can control (to some degree) where you miss then a lot of shots can be played with either type of ball.

    What is your fear of a urethane ball?

    I can slice or pull hook any ball off the tee, when my swing is off. For iron shots, I hit the ball high enough where either ball will stop on most greens. Now for me, surlyn balls tend to roll out more where as urethane balls tend to be within a 3 foot radius. For me the short game is where the urethane ball shines. As my wedge game improves the benefits of the urethane ball outshines the surlyn ball by miles.

    As we discussed previously, my last two rounds I was 4 of 5 and 6 of 6 on up and downs. This number does not include putts from the fringe. I do not believe a urethane ball will hurt your game any more than a surlyn ball will.

    No fear. I just think someone that gets up and down 50%+ (or whatever number) could do not that much worse (ie not 10%) with a lower spinning ball.

    It's really just a simple question. People make it out to be like you can't play with anything else or your game would be in shambles (and some, not you, make nice condescending remarks to people that could probably kick their tail with a surlyn). If so, tell me how big the difference is? Or, most people don't really know. They just know it's better which may be fine too.

    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    Ping G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    Ping Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  Ping Eye 2+ (58*) or Ping Eye 2 XG (60*)
  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Golf4lifer said:

    @agolf1 said:
    Of the 9 or so greens you miss, how many do you think the urethane provides a meaningful advantage? Ie really no hope with the surlyn or shot is much easier with the urethane. I laid out above what I peg the short game benefit for me at but interested in what others thoughts are.

    Everyone is different but I don't really care if the ball rolls 5 feet or 10-15 feet as long as I have that much green to use. My argument is if you can control (to some degree) where you miss then a lot of shots can be played with either type of ball.

    What is your fear of a urethane ball?

    I can slice or pull hook any ball off the tee, when my swing is off. For iron shots, I hit the ball high enough where either ball will stop on most greens. Now for me, surlyn balls tend to roll out more where as urethane balls tend to be within a 3 foot radius. For me the short game is where the urethane ball shines. As my wedge game improves the benefits of the urethane ball outshines the surlyn ball by miles.

    As we discussed previously, my last two rounds I was 4 of 5 and 6 of 6 on up and downs. This number does not include putts from the fringe. I do not believe a urethane ball will hurt your game any more than a surlyn ball will.

    My other point if everyone quotes the 4 of 5 and 6 of 6 days. And then it's all the ball.

    How about the 2 of 10 day? Maybe it's more the golfer and the difficulty of the leaves one has that day.

    Again, i still believe it's better. How much?

    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    Ping G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    Ping Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  Ping Eye 2+ (58*) or Ping Eye 2 XG (60*)

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