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Caddies - Tips - Double Bagging - and Questions


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Hey Gang,

I have taken a caddie a few times in my life but I must admit that I am pretty much a rookie and have a few questions. I have had two outstanding caddies at Whistling Straits and Oakland Hills South and these guys were single bagging. Hustled and were excellent greens readers and really were great to talk to.

 

Now at Erin Hills and Lost Dunes my caddies were not that great. I thought they were nice guys and I still enjoyed my time from them but to be honest they were not great around the greens and I at times was going to them for clubs. They both double bagged and from my experience I am not a fan but maybe thats because I have had bad experiences. I still tipped them the suggested amount but these guys made me think what should I tip someone who under performs?

 

I found it interesting at both Erin Hills and Whistling Straits the clubhouse takes a large cut of that caddie fee and that makes me sick for the caddies. Why would courses like this do that when they already make a killing on greens fees. Both places charged $55 and from what both caddies said the caddies get about $30 of that. They suggest that you tip them $65 which I did (at Whistling I have the guy $10 extra because I thought he did a great job and I am on a limited budget).

 

My biggest complaint was at Erin Hills and if you read my original review I did say they did a nice job but they were really young. I think they were either 1st or 2nd year guys and just did not really know the course. Yardages at times were really off and reading greens was pretty bad. With that being said they were still great to be around and talk to. Does that alone require that I tip the full amount????? When I think back since they were double bagging they made prob $200 that day so is it fair to say if I was not completely happy with their performance I could of gave them $40 or $50 tip instead of the $65 or does that make me a total loser????

 

I am dead serious. I want to know whats expected from the golfer when dealing with caddies and I have no problem with someone giving me their honest opinion especially for those that take caddies all the time.

 

I plan to go to Sand Valley but I think I will get a junior caddie for $60 because all I really want is a guy to carry my bags. If I knew that they were outstanding I would gladly pay the $110-$120 fee but it does kind of irk me to think if I pay that much cash I may still get stuck with a dud.

 

Thoughts on caddies especially if they double bag, cant read greens and give wrong yardages or information

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Also interested to hear. I am not a huge fan of double bag caddies. IMO it really only works if you have two players near scratch that hit a large number of fairways and greens and can read their own greens reliably. If one player goes left of left and one player goes right of right off the tee, it’s a miserable experience (personal knowledge).

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> @robdalky said:

> Also interested to hear. I am not a huge fan of double bag caddies. IMO it really only works if you have two players near scratch that hit a large number of fairways and greens and can read their own greens reliably. If one player goes left of left and one player goes right of right off the tee, it’s a miserable experience (personal knowledge).

 

I agree. I typically do not like double bag caddies. At Bandon my buddy and I shared a caddy for our first round at Old Mac and it was brutal. He hits a low fade, and my typical shot is a high draw, plus I'm about 30 yards longer than he is. Add 30 mph winds exaggerating each of our shots and we were miles apart...lol! I was standing around waiting for the caddy to catch up on nearly every shot, then felt rushed to maintain pace of play. It really made for an unpleasant experience. For the remaining rounds we requested our own individual caddies and it worked out great. I know these guys like to double bag as they make double the cash, but it can really detract from the experience. We tipped on the high side with the individual caddies so between that and the fact that we were decent players left them relatively happy.

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> @BG5 said:

> Hey Gang,

> I have taken a caddie a few times in my life but I must admit that I am pretty much a rookie and have a few questions. I have had two outstanding caddies at Whistling Straits and Oakland Hills South and these guys were single bagging. Hustled and were excellent greens readers and really were great to talk to.

>

> Now at Erin Hills and Lost Dunes my caddies were not that great. I thought they were nice guys and I still enjoyed my time from them but to be honest they were not great around the greens and I at times was going to them for clubs. They both double bagged and from my experience I am not a fan but maybe thats because I have had bad experiences. I still tipped them the suggested amount but these guys made me think what should I tip someone who under performs?

>

> I found it interesting at both Erin Hills and Whistling Straits the clubhouse takes a large cut of that caddie fee and that makes me sick for the caddies. Why would courses like this do that when they already make a killing on greens fees. Both places charged $55 and from what both caddies said the caddies get about $30 of that. They suggest that you tip them $65 which I did (at Whistling I have the guy $10 extra because I thought he did a great job and I am on a limited budget).

>

> My biggest complaint was at Erin Hills and if you read my original review I did say they did a nice job but they were really young. I think they were either 1st or 2nd year guys and just did not really know the course. Yardages at times were really off and reading greens was pretty bad. With that being said they were still great to be around and talk to. Does that alone require that I tip the full amount????? When I think back since they were double bagging they made prob $200 that day so is it fair to say if I was not completely happy with their performance I could of gave them $40 or $50 tip instead of the $65 or does that make me a total loser????

>

> I am dead serious. I want to know whats expected from the golfer when dealing with caddies and I have no problem with someone giving me their honest opinion especially for those that take caddies all the time.

>

> I plan to go to Sand Valley but I think I will get a junior caddie for $60 because all I really want is a guy to carry my bags. If I knew that they were outstanding I would gladly pay the $110-$120 fee but it does kind of irk me to think if I pay that much cash I may still get stuck with a dud.

>

> Thoughts on caddies especially if they double bag, cant read greens and give wrong yardages or information

 

We just played Sand Valley and Mammoth Dunes last weekend. You'll love the facility and you're wise to get a Jr. caddie. All of the money goes to the caddie which is great but our limited experience there had oour "A" caddie missing on yardages, lines to play, etc. He was wonderfully nice and took care of traps, etc. but he cost us shots instead of helping us minimize shots.

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> @BG5 said:

> Is there anything wrong with requesting a single caddie? If not that seems like something I would almost always do

 

Kinda discouraged at some places, but well within your rights as the paying customer.

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Taylormade HiToe 54 (bent to 55 & 2 flat)
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I don't see any value in a double-bagging caddie. I'd rather just carry my own bag or use a pushcart, but 'tis often against the rules at many courses with caddies. Pretty much every one I've had either slowed down the game, ended up being a distraction, etc. Or they took so many shortcuts by guesstimating (usually incorrectly) what club I was going to need for the shot up ahead, then running off to the other side of the fairway to the other player, leaving me with a 7 and 8 iron when I needed a 6 once I got to the ball, etc.

Full disclaimer: I was a double-bagging caddie at a private club throughout high school and college. That club would only send out a caddie as a single-bagger if they were very new; or if the player specifically requested it, which only really ever happened in the club championship tournament and with the more experienced caddies only. Most of us double-baggers tried our best but ended up providing mediocre service unless the players both hit it down the middle or next to each other all day.

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The more I think about this I think I just solved my problem. I will not get a caddie if they double bag and I will just walk or get a push cart. If I can get one that is a single then great and if not then I just solved my problem.

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> @BG5 said:

> The more I think about this I think I just solved my problem. I will not get a caddie if they double bag and I will just walk or get a push cart. If I can get one that is a single then great and if not then I just solved my problem.

 

SV has the Rickshaw carts which have huge tires and make it very easy to traverse the dunes...

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I’ve had double bag caddies probably 50+ times and never once found it to be an issue. Good chance I’m not that picky. I usually just grab my club on the way by the bag and if I have to wait then, oh well, no big deal.

 

I’ve had guys that were freakishly good at it several times and the experience then wasn’t any different than a single.

 

I don’t have a huge preference for a single caddie but would definitely give it an edge.

 

Caddies are a bit of a mixed bag for helpfulness anyway. I’ve had some that were awesome and could club me after a hole or two and I’ve had others that I quickly realized I’d rather just ignore for the most part. They usually don’t offer much advice unless asked. Same for green reading. I’d say about 1/3 could identify breaks that I couldn’t see already. Best ones have been at Pinehurst and Old Head. I haven’t found elite private club caddies to be all that helpful in most cases.

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I hate doubled bagging. I had one at Erin Hills, and it almost ruined the day. Standing around waiting for a club because the caddie is on the other side of the fairway is pointless. I tipped based on the service, and it wasn't good.

 

I've had my own caddie at Whistling, Bandon, Streamsong, Pebble, and Mammoth Dunes. Why courses would try to push double bagging is beyond me. I mentioned this to my caddie at The Old Course, and he thought it was preposterous.

Ping G425 Max Driver 12 (0 Flat) - Aldila Ascent Red 50 Stiff (46")
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Ping G410 9wd 23.5 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 65 Stiff (42.5")
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I'm heading to Streamsong next week. Temps expected to be low 90s. I'll be riding with a fore caddy thank you! ?

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Riding? Bah. Aren't the cart paths hundreds of yards from the fairways and greens? Lol.

Ping G425 Max Driver 12 (0 Flat) - Aldila Ascent Red 50 Stiff (46")
TaylorMade AeroBurner Mini Driver 16 - Matrix Speed RUL-Z 60 Stiff
Ping G410 7wd 20.5 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 65 Stiff (43")
Ping G410 9wd 23.5 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 65 Stiff (42.5")
Ping G425 6h 30 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 70 Stiff
PXG 0311P Gen3 6-P (2 Deg Weak, 1 Deg Flat) - True Temper Elevate 95 S /

Ping i200 6-P Orange Dot (2 Deg Weak, 2 Deg Flat) - True Temper XP 95 S
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At some private clubs guests are required to take a caddie. At both the Cal Club and Riviera I played with another guest and our caddie had to double bag.

 

In Los Angeles the other guest was very kind & knowledgeable. He carried his water bottle & camera (to make it easier for the caddie). So I did the same.

 

Whether single or double bagging, if the caddie did a good job, then you should give the full tip.

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So, does the caddie make the decision to double bag, or does the course force it upon them? If it's the caddie's choice to double, then they have to accept the possibility of a lesser tip if their service suffers.

 

Ping G425 Max Driver 12 (0 Flat) - Aldila Ascent Red 50 Stiff (46")
TaylorMade AeroBurner Mini Driver 16 - Matrix Speed RUL-Z 60 Stiff
Ping G410 7wd 20.5 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 65 Stiff (43")
Ping G410 9wd 23.5 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 65 Stiff (42.5")
Ping G425 6h 30 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 70 Stiff
PXG 0311P Gen3 6-P (2 Deg Weak, 1 Deg Flat) - True Temper Elevate 95 S /

Ping i200 6-P Orange Dot (2 Deg Weak, 2 Deg Flat) - True Temper XP 95 S
Ping Glide 4.0 52-12 S, 56-10 Eye2, and 60-10 S Orange Dot (2 Deg Flat) - Ping Z-Z115 Wedge
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> @Argonne69 said:

> Riding? Bah. Aren't the cart paths hundreds of yards from the fairways and greens? Lol.

 

Dont know? Enlighten me...

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Ping i200 5-UW (2 flat) - Nippon Modus 105X
Taylormade HiToe 54 (bent to 55 & 2 flat)
Taylormade HiToe 64 (Bent to 62 & 2 flat)
Palmer AP30R putter (circa 1960s)
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I much prefer single bag caddies no doubt. I like the intimacy it provides and if you are playing a match with your opponents it provides a team atmosphere, or about as close as we could get as amateurs. The double bag is typically based on how many caddies are available that day and the caddie master. Many places have a policy of double bagging. It is hard work for the double bagger for sure and the club/resort will give you suggested rates based on experience. If I'm a guest at a private club I always try and round up whatever the suggested rate / tip is. It is rare I have gotten a terrible caddie. IMO the worst was at Turnberry (before trump) and the caddie looked like he came off the docks with alcohol on his breath and met us at the 2nd hole. Didn't provide any value whatsoever. Left a small tip as it is a resort and that service wasn't meeting my expectations to say the least.

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> @Argonne69 said:

> I hate doubled bagging. I had one at Erin Hills, and it almost ruined the day. Standing around waiting for a club because the caddie is on the other side of the fairway is pointless. I tipped based on the service, and it wasn't good.

>

> I've had my own caddie at Whistling, Bandon, Streamsong, Pebble, and Mammoth Dunes. Why courses would try to push double bagging is beyond me. I mentioned this to my caddie at The Old Course, and he thought it was preposterous.

 

I think you answered your own question. If Erin Hills is taking a hefty cut from the caddies they may need to double bag to make worth it. Interesting enough has there not been a lot of post lately about Erin Hills and poor caddie experiences??

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Generally I do not like double bags. I tend to snap hook my balls and so I am usually far off to the other side of my golfing partners.

I usually end up grabbing a few clubs and wonder off myself. So it ends up with the caddie mostly raking my sand traps.

I have talked to caddies who are single bagging and double bagging for me and all have said they like to double bag because it effectively allows them to earned double for the same 18 holes.

I am not sure if one of the posters here made a mistake but they quoted caddie fees of $55 per round plus tips.

In my experience I have not seen anything less than $100 per round plus tips. At $55 that is only $11 per hour.

 

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To me, this is another place where people are confusing what they see on TV (the PGA Tour) with real golf.

 

I think the problem here lies more in expectations of what a caddy does than with the actual "service" of a double-bag caddy. Guys who rarely use caddies tend to expect that they have some kind of golf guru on their bag who's going to give them shot-by-shot advice, read putts, regale them with stories, rake bunkers, wash their balls and wipe their clubs all for $50, a pack of smokes, and 50 cents for a coke at the turn.

 

I usually play with a caddy, and he (sometimes she) usually carries two bags. For experienced caddies, carrying doubles really doesn't impact the fundamentals of the service. From my POV, their job is to have the bag at your ball and communicate a distance before it's your turn to hit. A good caddy has no problem with this. I find single bags to be more awkward - there's a lot of time with just the two of you standing around making chitchat. I'm pretty happy to have the junior guys carry my bag. If I can help a kid fall in love with golf and make some extra cash, that feels like a decent investment to me - even if they're terrible at reading putts and hand you a 6 iron when you asked for a 9. The only time(s) I don't like it is when you get a kid with a bad attitude, which happens to me probably once a season.

 

I get that a lot of golfers don't see the 'value' in paying for a guy to carry their bag and rake the bunkers, but you have to have reasonable expectations of what the service is. You're not hiring Jim McKay out there.

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Gotta disagree. How can a caddie provide the basic service of providing a club to two players 70 yards apart? A: They can't. Double bagging is a simple money grab.

 

I've had caddies on numerous rounds and never had a truly bad experience except for the one round at Erin Hills with the double bag.

Ping G425 Max Driver 12 (0 Flat) - Aldila Ascent Red 50 Stiff (46")
TaylorMade AeroBurner Mini Driver 16 - Matrix Speed RUL-Z 60 Stiff
Ping G410 7wd 20.5 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 65 Stiff (43")
Ping G410 9wd 23.5 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 65 Stiff (42.5")
Ping G425 6h 30 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 70 Stiff
PXG 0311P Gen3 6-P (2 Deg Weak, 1 Deg Flat) - True Temper Elevate 95 S /

Ping i200 6-P Orange Dot (2 Deg Weak, 2 Deg Flat) - True Temper XP 95 S
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I don't really see a big disagreement here. Double bag works fine if the players the caddie is looping for don't have very dissimilar games. The whole deal kind of falls apart if the players are always hitting into wildly different places. As for the "money grab" thing, caddies aren't putting their wives into B-school with the proceeds from their work, so I can't get too worked up over it.

 

I've only played with caddies maybe 10-15 times in my life, but on maybe one occasion have they really been much assistance to me from a scoring standpoint - and that guy had his PGA card.

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> @Argonne69 said:

> Gotta disagree. How can a caddie provide the basic service of providing a club to two players 70 yards apart? A: They can't. Double bagging is a simple money grab.

>

> I've had caddies on numerous rounds and never had a truly bad experience except for the one round at Erin Hills with the double bag.

 

This is the problem perfectly articulated. Clubbing a player (“providing a club”) is NOT the most basic service; it’s actually the most advanced service. But because that’s what we see on TV, that’s what you think is the “standard” for a caddy.

 

A good double bagging caddy will be moving before you tee off, and will have bag #1 at the ball - ideally with a recommended club pulled - before the whole group has even teed off. If you need a yardage, one of the caddies in the group should be close enough to give it to you.

 

The most basic service is carrying your bag, helping find balls, and raking traps. A guy carrying two bags can do that in his sleep.

 

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> @raynorfan1 said:

> > @Argonne69 said:

> > Gotta disagree. How can a caddie provide the basic service of providing a club to two players 70 yards apart? A: They can't. Double bagging is a simple money grab.

> >

> > I've had caddies on numerous rounds and never had a truly bad experience except for the one round at Erin Hills with the double bag.

>

> This is the problem perfectly articulated. Clubbing a player (“providing a club”) is NOT the most basic service; it’s actually the most advanced service. But because that’s what we see on TV, that’s what you think is the “standard” for a caddy.

>

> A good double bagging caddy will be moving before you tee off, and will have bag #1 at the ball - ideally with a recommended club pulled - before the whole group has even teed off. If you need a yardage, one of the caddies in the group should be close enough to give it to you.

>

> The most basic service is carrying your bag, helping find balls, and raking traps. A guy carrying two bags can do that in his sleep.

>

 

For starters, there was only one caddie in the group. He was double bagging. The other two players were carrying their own clubs. 'No idea how one is supposed to get yardage from a non-existent caddie.

 

I've had dozens of caddies, and not once did a caddie ever give me a club on the teebox, and start walking down the fairway before we've teed off. 'Good way to get your brains knocked in. A double bagging caddie has to provide clubs for two players. How can he be waiting at ball #1 with a club in hand when he's 60 yards across the fairway looking for the other player's ball in the fescue???

 

'Sorry, but giving the player a club is absolutely a fundamental part of the job. It's d*mn near impossible to advance the ball when your clubs are 60 yards away.

 

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Ping G425 Max Driver 12 (0 Flat) - Aldila Ascent Red 50 Stiff (46")
TaylorMade AeroBurner Mini Driver 16 - Matrix Speed RUL-Z 60 Stiff
Ping G410 7wd 20.5 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 65 Stiff (43")
Ping G410 9wd 23.5 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 65 Stiff (42.5")
Ping G425 6h 30 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 70 Stiff
PXG 0311P Gen3 6-P (2 Deg Weak, 1 Deg Flat) - True Temper Elevate 95 S /

Ping i200 6-P Orange Dot (2 Deg Weak, 2 Deg Flat) - True Temper XP 95 S
Ping Glide 4.0 52-12 S, 56-10 Eye2, and 60-10 S Orange Dot (2 Deg Flat) - Ping Z-Z115 Wedge
PXG Blackjack 36" - SuperStroker Flatso 2.0

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> @Argonne69 said:

> For starters, there was only one caddie in the group. He was double bagging. The other two players were carrying their own clubs. 'No idea how one is supposed to get yardage from a non-existent caddie.

 

We can all agree that playing in a group that's mixed with and without caddies is miserable. It drives me crazy when guys who "like to carry their own bag" ask somebody else's caddy for help reading a putt or raking a bunker. It also makes life a lot easier when you've got two knowledgable guys on the hole who can work together to give yardages etc.

 

> @Argonne69 said:

> I've had dozens of caddies, and not once did a caddie ever give me a club on the teebox, and start walking down the fairway before we've teed off. 'Good way to get your brains knocked in. A double bagging caddie has to provide clubs for two players. How can he be waiting at ball #1 with a club in hand when he's 60 yards across the fairway looking for the other player's ball in the fescue???

 

The caddy never sees the tee box. As you walk off the green and hand them your putter, they hand you the right club for the next tee shot, and they hustle 200 yards up the fairway to forecaddy. At my home course, caddies forecaddy all but 4 holes (not including Par 3's). They arrive at your ball, stand your bag up, and pull a club for you before you've left the tee. They don't have a "club in hand" - they leave your bag next to your ball, with their suggested club leaned against it.

 

And, I must ask, what are you doing while the caddy is 60 yards across the fairway looking for the other player's ball in the fescue? Wouldn't you be over there looking too?

 

> @Argonne69 said:

> 'Sorry, but giving the player a club is absolutely a fundamental part of the job. It's d*mn near impossible to advance the ball when your clubs are 60 yards away.

 

As noted above; your clubs should be right next to your ball. The caddy? He might be somewhere else. But hopefully you can execute a shot without his sage advice.

 

All this being said, I will acknowledge that there are some fundamental differences (I think) in how we experience caddies. I play the same course 100x a year, most of the time with a caddy (and most of that time with the same caddy). He doesn't need to tell me where to aim or how to play the hole. The only real playing advice he gives me is to warn me if I'm going to play a really stupid shot (which happens a few times a round...). If somebody is unfamiliar with the course, by definition, they're playing with a member who can describe the layout.

 

My sense is that you're mostly getting caddies at resort courses (Erin Hills, Whistling Straits, etc.) that you've never played. IMHO, that's a different experience. You've never seen the holes. You don't know what the line of play is. And at the latest trendy places, the fairways are a mile and a half wide. Under those circumstances, I tend to agree that a double-bagging caddy who is doing a lot of forecaddy work is not as useful as you'd like them to be. That said, I've been at Streamsong with double-bagged caddies, and I thought they did a really effective job.

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> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @Argonne69 said:

> >Why courses would try to push double bagging is beyond me.

>

> $$$$$

 

That's a little unfair; the big part of the $$$$$ equation is that most golfers wouldn't pay full freight. A caddy is usually only going to get one loop a day. $100 for a day of labor skilled labor is not sustainable - but that's the top of what golfers are willing to pay.

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I've never had a caddie at a private club, or a course that I've played a million times, so I have to assume that it's fundamentally different that a high end course. At Bandon Dunes, Pebble, Chambers Bay, Streamsong, Kiawah Island, Mammoth Dunes, Erin Hills, Whistling Straits, St Andrews, and Kingsbarns the caddie was with me the vast majority of the rounds. On the teebox they're discussing aiming points and club selection. After the tee shot, they'd walk down the fairway with the group.

 

Ping G425 Max Driver 12 (0 Flat) - Aldila Ascent Red 50 Stiff (46")
TaylorMade AeroBurner Mini Driver 16 - Matrix Speed RUL-Z 60 Stiff
Ping G410 7wd 20.5 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 65 Stiff (43")
Ping G410 9wd 23.5 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 65 Stiff (42.5")
Ping G425 6h 30 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 70 Stiff
PXG 0311P Gen3 6-P (2 Deg Weak, 1 Deg Flat) - True Temper Elevate 95 S /

Ping i200 6-P Orange Dot (2 Deg Weak, 2 Deg Flat) - True Temper XP 95 S
Ping Glide 4.0 52-12 S, 56-10 Eye2, and 60-10 S Orange Dot (2 Deg Flat) - Ping Z-Z115 Wedge
PXG Blackjack 36" - SuperStroker Flatso 2.0

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